POLL: Fairest studio after 35% tkt price rise of 15th April?

[cumdump]

Guys I want to be honest, if it were up to us we will put the scenes even at $ 1 with all the views that make the scenes and for the quality we offer we should earn a lot ... I had tried last year to put a scene at a low price and we almost lost the money, and in fact the support told us if you put the scenes at too low a price you will have a low profit ... now imagine if until last year we were earning well and now we have problems ... if I put a scene at a low price I make it as a hobby, and unfortunately I think that only some have this problem ... I hope instead that a collaboration will be created between all the studios, and help in swapping actresses or doing scenes in collaboration for the pleasure of you fans, instead of getting into a bad situation

I believe this, in the end, there needs to be fair share or somewhat fair share where it is ideal market and for the most part everyone wins here, I think it is possible, but as you said, it will need to rely much on the Studios, the best value ones will rise to the top, unfortunately, the ones not willing to adapt to meet the market may fade out.

[cumdump]

Good evening to all I think I speak also on behalf of other small studies that compared to last year and january I am having a drop in the ratings of the scenes of 40%And it never happened, I'm sorry that the prices of tiket are high but we have experienced that if I lower the prices the evaluation is lower for me, If you don't believe me, I can show the my value of the last scene, I am transparent, i would like to make scene with 5 guys but is risky for us I'm totally sure I will lose the money and is also strange all this...

I appreciate you taking the time for this post.
And I’m sorry to hear that, it sounds almost like a no win situation for you. Don’t have any advice to give you unfortunately. Only that if the change in ticket value has affected you this much (if I understand you correctly sales have dropped 40%?), it seems to mean that a lot of customers are unable (because they don’t have the budget) or unwilling (because they don’t want to reward the sudden ticket change) to buy a lot of scenes anymore.

If that is the case, this is turning into a situation where almost everyone (studios, performers, customers) loses.

Exactly we have always put for a year the same prices and we have always earned a fair profit, since January instead have begun the drops in valuation and towards the end of February and beginning of March the total collapse, the actresses and actors rightly ask for a fairly high cachet plus there are current expenses, the study, editing the cameraman and pay the percentages to any agencies ... if I invest 2300/2500€ and earn 2500 or 2700$ there is no profit, even if I do 3000$ it is lower... I never lost last year even with the actress who sells less, unfortunately we do not have a guarantee and I do not know if someone has facilities because if I do a scene with more actors I lose money I have already tried lately 4 times and I made a ridiculous profit, we have many great ideas that we would like to realize but we should have at least a minimum of fixed earnings on exclusive scenes for us studios, and above all collaborate with each other studies instead of making us problems ... Problems that arise from the little gain

Thank you for this information, many people do not know or understand the Business side of this, there are many hands or people if you will involved in the process and production of a scene that little people know about.

If you are into invest an amount of money into a scene, you must make it back and then some for it to profitable, I would hate to see quality and great scenes produced at a loss, that is and would be unfortunate.

Especially as you say if you have great ideas you would like to excecute and bring to scenes.

[cumdump]

If that is the case, this is turning into a situation where almost everyone (studios, performers, customers) loses.

This is the Market scenario we do not want, would be best if most and ideally all parties involved win or can win most of the time.

[avanfurwet]

I don't know, it's not my business. I have no insight and no numbers. But I wasn't born yesterday.

I find it impossible to believe that studios don't even know how many copies of their own scenes they are selling.

How would it be in Pornbox's interest to withhold sales numbers from their partner studios?

Isn't the studio's licence fee calculated after 14 days based on the number of sales during that period?

Why are we told by studios that a girl didn't get re-booked because "she didn't sell"? How do they know?

I think they do know, because I think Pornbox tell them.

If I owned a studio I would be getting that information, or I would have to stop selling on Pornbox and find another outlet, or get into another business. Not because I'm smart, just because there is no rational alternative. Any business must know their sales numbers, or they are flying blind and will inevitably crash and go out of business.

I know it's frustrating, and PAF are trying to tell us about their problems. If PAF studio really don't understand what is happening to their business, I think they need to get help. Nobody wants to see them go bankrupt.

Of course studios need to make a fair return for their risk and efforts. But Pornbox is their partner not their mother and should not need to babysit the studios.

Again, customers choose to buy scenes from Pornbox and support this business model. Customers can buy porn elsewhere or just steal it like all the other dishonest bastards out there. If prices here are jerked upwards by 35% for no reason that we can understand, at some point customers will reduce buying and studios may wake up to find their sales are down 40% (or whatever percentage).

[Ultra-Gape]

No you sell them

No Earnings have declined since after January before the tiket change... I do not know how many people and who buys the scenes so I can not know if the sales are the same or different, I and other studies have a change in valuations, I could not give you even A real explanation, but believe me as others will have told you if we lower the prices we lose money ... Instead until January this does not happen or in any case we left the same prices and waded all well,If we bring the same price of tiket, I and others I spoke to go at a loss and we still have a lower valuation than before...is all strange for us

I'm very surprised that you don't have accurate sales data. Do you just get a combined payment for multiple scenes rather than a break-down by scene? If you genuinely don't get good data on a per-scene basis then I think it would be in everyone's interest if this were provided.

On the sales decline since January, do you have any guesses why? I wonder if perhaps there has been a global trend associated with covid pandemic restrictions easing? I wonder if there was a boost in general porn sales when there were more restrictions in place actually?

[Ultra-Gape]

I have a couple of general thoughts from reading this thread...

Firstly, I don't think this happens but I wish models got some sort of sales-related payment from scenes after release, a bit like music royalties. That way they would directly benefit from good scenes, beyond the obvious possibility of being re-booked.

Secondly, whilst I appreciate there are business matters that it's entirely reasonable to keep private, I would be interested in greater transparency in terms of how money from ticket purchases I make is split between studios and other parties, and how this varies depending when I buy a scene. Like I'm sure many others, my personal choice to pay for porn is driven by wanting to support those in the industry, to reward their work and support it's ongoing production. Noting of course that what I may buy and want to keep seeing produced is not the same as what others may want, and so purchasing decisions may also influence what does get made.

[dap-addict]

Good evening to all I think I speak also on behalf of other small studies that compared to last year and january I am having a drop in the ratings of the scenes of 40%And it never happened, I'm sorry that the prices of tiket are high but we have experienced that if I lower the prices the evaluation is lower for me

PAF, you say its already from January 2022?
And nothing has changed or made it even worse after that ticket devaluation of mid April?
If you say yes for both, than I am really lost now.
That whole ticket devaluation thing doenst stop to confuse me. At the same time we see AGO studio, which which according to xxx it all started if I understand this right, has started to half the ticket price increase and level it to around +18% (instead of +35%).

[dap-addict]

So I've done a little research, and although it's hardly an exact science, there's still some wisdom to learn. I've compared prices to (relatively) similar scenes for some of the studios mentioned in this poll. That includes prices before and after the ticket devaluation (prices all for dry versions):

Gonzo:
There seems to be indications that Gonzo scenes have actually gone down in price instead of up. For example a 4v1 DP scene with Madison Quinn (released before) costs 7.0 tickets, while a 4v1 DP (and DAP!) scene with Gina Snow (released after) goes for 6.7. That's 5% less. For 6v1 DAP scenes it's even bigger. I've found two of those, both released after. NiciXDream was released shortly after and costs 10.3 tickets. A much more recent 6v1 DAP with Baby Kxtten suddenly only costs 8.1 (that's 21% less!). Did the Nici scene do bad because of the high price and was it adjusted for the release of the Baby scene?

Giorgio Grandi:
The most egregious in terms of price hiking are Gio's studios. Take for example a Waka Waka 4.1 with Mary Jane that was released before and costs 7.8 tickets, and compare it with the same style Waka Waka with Silvia Dellai which was released after. That one costs 10.81 tickets, which is a 38% price increase. The same big gap shows for 6v2 DAP scenes. Take Francesca Palma/Lilly Veroni (released before), that went for 9.1 tickets, and compare it with a recent Eden Ivy/Jolee Love. That one is 29% more expensive at 11.76 tickets.

Giorgio's Lab:
Here we find the biggest hike. 'My first DP' with Isabella Both (released before) goes for 5.8 tickets. The same type of scene with Ashley Woods is 50%(!!) more expensive at 8.78. The gap is somewhat smaller in 1v1 scenes. Alba Lala (released before) costs 4.9, compared to 6.35 for Aurrora Paoli. Still a 30% increase.

XfreaX:
For this label I'll suffice with the easiest one to compare: the BTS scenes. They used to cost 4.5 tickets, while now they are 6.08. A price hike of 35%.

NRX Studio:
This one seems to be all over the place still. For example, the last debut 1v1 scene with Jessika Stone released before, costs 6.81 tickets. After that we've seen in order of release Aliska Dark (9.4 tickets, or 38% more), then Elise Moon (7.21 tickets, or 5% more), then Red Louboutin (8.7 tickets, or 29% more). Those differences are somewhat less obvious in DP scenes. Mia Grandy's one was released shortly before at 7.77 tickets. After that we've seen Aliska Dark (8.56, or 10% more) and Elise Moon (8.11, or 4% more). Seems Nick is still experimenting.

Yummy Estudio:
This one surprised me somewhat. I was convinced their prices didn't really increase all that much, but it turned out to be more than I expected. Take a 4v1 DAP/TP with Larissa Leite. It was released before and costs 6.4 tickets. Two similar scenes released after (4v1 DAP, but no TP) starring May Akemi and Venus On Fire are going for 7.66 tickets each. An increase of 19%. I also compared two 4v2 DAP scenes. One released before with Eva Perez and Polly Petrova. That one is 7.9 tickets. A scene with Polly and Mina (released after) goes for 8.87, which means a 12% increase.

Angelo Godshack Originals:
Squirting Wars (4v2) with the Dellai twins was released before at 10.3 tickets. A similar scene with Mia Trejsi and Nathalie Kitten is 22% more expensive at 12.61 tickets. Very interesting are some solo gangbangs. A 5v1 DAP scene with Jennifer Mendez (released before) costs 8.7 tickets, while a 6v1 DAP scene (one stud more) with Eveline Dellai (released after) costs 11.76 tickets. That is a 35% increase. But...another 6v1 with Aubrey Black released later is 8.56 tickets, which is almost the same price as the Jennifer Mendez scene (released before). An indication Angelo is adjusting his prices to a more normal level?

Like I said it's not an exact science, and I've not taken into account girl fees and such, but it's still a small indication of where we stand. Giorgio BY FAR the most expensive, and no indication it will change. Others also increased but not as much (or not at all like Gonzo), or still experimenting. Let's see how it develops.

Lat thanks for this great survey, Yum!

Bold highlights for AGO by me.
AGO was put as the studio example by xxx that triggered that 35% ticket devaluation in that meanwhile closed thread. This is why I fellow AGO price policy more closely now. And their todays release gives me some hope again: https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/140464 - This Sunday I need it!

[Giorgio Grandi]

I have a couple of general thoughts from reading this thread...

Firstly, I don't think this happens but I wish models got some sort of sales-related payment from scenes after release, a bit like music royalties. That way they would directly benefit from good scenes, beyond the obvious possibility of being re-booked.

Secondly, whilst I appreciate there are business matters that it's entirely reasonable to keep private, I would be interested in greater transparency in terms of how money from ticket purchases I make is split between studios and other parties, and how this varies depending when I buy a scene. Like I'm sure many others, my personal choice to pay for porn is driven by wanting to support those in the industry, to reward their work and support it's ongoing production. Noting of course that what I may buy and want to keep seeing produced is not the same as what others may want, and so purchasing decisions may also influence what does get made.

That data are public.
You can find the way the revenue is split between the distributor and the content creator clicking on "Content creators apply here" on the bottom of pornbox.com and clicking TERMS on the following page

[Ultra-Gape]

That data are public.
You can find the way the revenue is split between the distributor and the content creator clicking on "Content creators apply here" on the bottom of pornbox.com and clicking TERMS on the following page

Thank you. I'll have a look.

[checktherings]

Hmmm, this all is a little strange to me, so my 2 cents (in this case 3)
1. yes, I noticed the price hike very much. Some pricing was erratic to start with, but I ignored it at first
2. Well, for LP I hope they have a good stats system in place that shows how the video sales are tracking vs price (and content), combined with the margin on the videos so they can tell what is working overall. They must, I mean the platform looks really professional, so at least the revenue and volume tracking per studio and clip must be in place.
3. For me personally: A lot of prices went up too much, so in fact not only my number of videos bought went down (I am thinking it over instead of quickly buying), but also my amount spent went down. If this is the case for other punters as well, the math will not be working. With my monthly overall subcription value having gone down dramatically, I am rethinking this. Beforehand it was a no-brainer - I felt the value was super. Now not so. I am surely not the only one

[Ultra-Gape]

That data are public.
You can find the way the revenue is split between the distributor and the content creator clicking on "Content creators apply here" on the bottom of pornbox.com and clicking TERMS on the following page

So if I've understood correctly, producers get a single payment based on sales up to at most day 15 from release, paying at a high percentage of the projected revenue over three years (amount depending of exact content and producer status). So you don't directly get any money at all for sales after day 15, although I guess if actual sales differ from projected then this may affect future projections.

Assuming I've got that right I wonder two things:

(1) Do producers get any revenue from sales for the period after 3 years? I'm guessing the answer is no but the projection doesn't appear to include this and I doubt sales of older scenes is completely negligible. I certainly buy some and from posts here I wouldn't have thought I was that unusual in doing so. As a business the aim would also surely be to always attract new customers rather than just thinking of those who have been members for years, and new customers are more likely to be interested in older content that they missed.

(2) Do producers get provided with long-term sales data, so that even though you don't get directly paid for it you are sill able to see what is more or less popular outside of the initial 15 days?

Thanks.

[xxx]

That data are public.
You can find the way the revenue is split between the distributor and the content creator clicking on "Content creators apply here" on the bottom of pornbox.com and clicking TERMS on the following page

So if I've understood correctly, producers get a single payment based on sales up to at most day 15 from release, paying at a high percentage of the projected revenue over three years (amount depending of exact content and producer status). So you don't directly get any money at all for sales after day 15, although I guess if actual sales differ from projected then this may affect future projections.

Assuming I've got that right I wonder two things:

(1) Do producers get any revenue from sales for the period after 3 years? I'm guessing the answer is no but the projection doesn't appear to include this and I doubt sales of older scenes is completely negligible. I certainly buy some and from posts here I wouldn't have thought I was that unusual in doing so. As a business the aim would also surely be to always attract new customers rather than just thinking of those who have been members for years, and new customers are more likely to be interested in older content that they missed.

(2) Do producers get provided with long-term sales data, so that even though you don't get directly paid for it you are sill able to see what is more or less popular outside of the initial 15 days?

Thanks.

They used to not get more money for exclusive content that is 3+ years (because they received a nice sum of cash already for it) but this was changed earlier this year for all content uploaded a year before that date and after.

[misangrenegra2]

It's "funny" but people seem to have forgotten. The price has been rising since May/June 2020. Currently we are paying almost and, in a lot of cases, the double or more for the same content.

It was progressive and little by little. The complain for it weren't too much, in fact, looked some costumers were in favour to pay a little more.

Now, when has been a notable rising the complains grow up.

Personally the price rise in 2021 earlys maked me reduce the support for a while, now is undefined.

Just take a look to the prices since "May/June 2020" to the previous months and compare what kind of content was shooted, now check the current content and compare the prices.

[PAFstudio]

Guys I want to be honest, if it were up to us we will put the scenes even at $ 1 with all the views that make the scenes and for the quality we offer we should earn a lot ... I had tried last year to put a scene at a low price and we almost lost the money, and in fact the support told us if you put the scenes at too low a price you will have a low profit ... now imagine if until last year we were earning well and now we have problems ... if I put a scene at a low price I make it as a hobby, and unfortunately I think that only some have this problem ... I hope instead that a collaboration will be created between all the studios, and help in swapping actresses or doing scenes in collaboration for the pleasure of you fans, instead of getting into a bad situation

I believe this, in the end, there needs to be fair share or somewhat fair share where it is ideal market and for the most part everyone wins here, I think it is possible, but as you said, it will need to rely much on the Studios, the best value ones will rise to the top, unfortunately, the ones not willing to adapt to meet the market may fade out.

I'll explain to you we really know how much we sell based on how many people and which user bought the scene ... an evaluation of the scenes appears to us (for the pissing and dry one there is no difference a single evaluation is made as if it were only a scene) in these 14 days the price may vary, it goes down or up slightly (most of the time it tends to go down) in my opinion we would need a fixed minimum ... for example, a scene from DAP 2 on 1 and piss, very simple, the actresses for the most part ask for this type of scenes € 1000/1200 most of the actors ask € 300 the cameraman asks us € 200 with more editing, the makeup artist asks € 50 for a price please then you have to produce a quantity of scenes to pay the monthly rent of the studio which are 830 € and also have more income ... Hypothesis, 1100 + 300 + 200 + 50 = 1650 € for me a fixed guaranteed good for this kind of scene would be 2300 € and the rest all I earn more if it sells well and also on the basis of the actress then for a top ten the earnings should also triple or quadruple, another little psychological reasoning that often uses sly politics, (when the government of a nation wants to "steal the money from its citizens "does it with style, it gives them a nice income everyone is happy and no one wonders if it is right or not when instead the government is greedy and bullies it decides to take even half of what is due to the people, and the people rightly he gets angry and accuses the government and riots are created ... translated if everyone has a good income that allows them to live well and even get rid of the frills and every now and then nobody gets angry and nobody cares to check if it is right or not .. . When, on the other hand, you get to barely pull at the end of the month and you realize that even on your account the money is being deducted you start to get suspicious for the evidence and you start to get angry) then since there are these "wars of earnings and supremacy "many begin to blackmail the best actors and actresses and in fact it has become almost impossible for us to call a top ten, and above all the thing that disgusts me most is when these artists also show me messages from other producers where they tell them not to work for us otherwise they won't be given more work, the reader knows it's true ... this is stupidity, there is food for everyone here and we are all indispensable because each of us offers a different product and with different styles of fantasy, the best thing would be to help yourself and form a support group and focus attention on you fans not on who must reign supreme among the studios and the arbitral control over the artists with blackmail ...

[Ultra-Gape]

They used to not get more money for exclusive content that is 3+ years (because they received a nice sum of cash already for it) but this was changed earlier this year for all content uploaded a year before that and after.

That's good to know, thanks.

[PAFstudio]

He cut the first part of the message for me because it was too long ... I make a short summary, we don't know exactly who buys the scenes and how many buy them we have a rating for 14 days which can go up or down slightly (most of the sometimes it tends to go down) so we can't really know if it is we who are not seeing or if someone decides how much we have to earn and if we have to survive, we studies would need a fixed minimum of secure earnings, I'll give you an example a dap scene with pissing 2 on 1 very simple, the actresses ask about 1000/1200 € for this scene, most of the actors instead ask 300 € the cameraman asks us 200 € plus editing the makeup artist 50 € and you have to produce a quantity of scenes to pay the rent of the studio of € 830 per month plus gas and electricity. So 1200 + 300 + 200 + 50 = 1650 € a fair fixed income for this scene would be 2300 € then everything else must be earned more in percentage also based on the type of actress that is used, I will give you a small example that uses the government when it is smart and smart (if a government deducts money or steals money from companies and citizens but in any case gives a fair profit that also allows them to take holidays and get away with it and everyone is happy, nobody gets angry and nobody wants to investigate if it is right or not, when instead the government wants to make supremacy and is greedy it also takes the half that belongs to the people and in this case the people get angry and start to make protests and even violent wars, translated if everyone is well and has the right earnings and also prizes nobody gets angry and nobody wants to know the truth because he has everything he needs to feel good) we should create a collaboration between the studios and exchange actors and actresses and support each other to focus on satisfaction for you fans and don't make a war on who has to survive or who is the best studio, because if we are here it is because in part all the studios have quality and products with different styles that you like, so it is right that they continue to exist ... for us to work with some artists is impossible because they are blackmailed by some, all these problems in my opinion arise from the little gain for some and from the greed and ignorance of others...

[Giorgio Grandi]

That data are public.
You can find the way the revenue is split between the distributor and the content creator clicking on "Content creators apply here" on the bottom of pornbox.com and clicking TERMS on the following page

So if I've understood correctly, producers get a single payment based on sales up to at most day 15 from release, paying at a high percentage of the projected revenue over three years (amount depending of exact content and producer status). So you don't directly get any money at all for sales after day 15, although I guess if actual sales differ from projected then this may affect future projections.

Assuming I've got that right I wonder two things:

(1) Do producers get any revenue from sales for the period after 3 years? I'm guessing the answer is no but the projection doesn't appear to include this and I doubt sales of older scenes is completely negligible. I certainly buy some and from posts here I wouldn't have thought I was that unusual in doing so. As a business the aim would also surely be to always attract new customers rather than just thinking of those who have been members for years, and new customers are more likely to be interested in older content that they missed.

(2) Do producers get provided with long-term sales data, so that even though you don't get directly paid for it you are sill able to see what is more or less popular outside of the initial 15 days?

Thanks.

The system has been updated early this year and if a scene sells better than predicted, we get a further incoming.
So, the system is done to help producers, if you checked the % of payout to the producers and you take in accounting programming, running the website and even promotion, we get as much as the users spend.

Numbers are easy to calculate. If a scene cost 10$ and the payout after 14 days is 1000$, this means the system predict 100 sales.
Its tricky to keep truck of old scenes if you really want to do it, but if you are a stats nerd (like me), you just hire a programmer to create you own stats from the raw data we have in our control panel on PB/Sheer and you get create your own stats.
This DO NOT help small studios, it maybe help who like me has hundreds of scenes where to keep on eye on stats could give some better info about what sells better on short time and what sells better on long time. Small studios with 10 scenes/month, can simply keep data into a excel file (I did it for years)

[dap-addict]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

[YumYum74]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

These are interesting questions, because if the answer to 1) is ‘no, they get the same amount for each scene sold’ then it stands to reason that not only customers got screwed. If, because of higher ticket prices sales have gone down, then profits probably also go down (or maybe even disappear altogether). And this will probably hurt smaller studios (PAF, NF, Angelo) that much harder.
I doubt the answer to 1) is ‘yes’, due to the communications made by these studios over the last days/weeks.

(dap, I assume you mean ‘end user’ at the end of your question 1b?).

[Ultra-Gape]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?

The change in payout to studios will depend how the price increase affects the number of people who buy it.

[PAFstudio]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

We have also done experiments by lowering the price in dollars to give you a better tiket happens a very important drop in valuation with also wrapped risk of losing even the money invested ... to underline also a problem before, also Angelo, Florane and other studio They told you that the scenes are evaluated very little in recent times and now the situation is little bit more complicated for us because when we put low price for make good tiket we gane more bad...The good thing is that now even old scenes if they sell we receive small percentages, but the new ones are quoted low and therefore in reality we do not grow up like olds studios because we are in balance to gain and lose...Demonstrable if you don't believe me, I'm real transparent and honest about this, I told you If It Was for Us I can put the scene at 1$ with 25.000 viev if I sell for 5.000 people I can gain more you don't think? But this sistem don't work like this unfortunately...do you understand now what we small studios mean?

[xxx]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.

If the same amount of people as before buy your content, you make 35% more.

They are wrong. All those theories and misconceptions floating around really add to the confusion.

[YumYum74]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

We have also done experiments by lowering the price in dollars to give you a better tiket happens a very important drop in valuation with also wrapped risk of losing even the money invested ... to underline also a problem before, also Angelo, Florane and other studio They told you that the scenes are evaluated very little in recent times and now the situation is little bit more complicated for us because when we put low price for make good tiket we gane more bad...The good thing is that now even old scenes if they sell we receive small percentages, but the new ones are quoted low and therefore in reality we do not grow up like olds studios because we are in balance to gain and lose...Demonstrable if you don't believe me, I'm real transparent and honest about this, I told you If It Was for Us I can put the scene at 1$ with 25.000 viev if I sell for 5.000 people I can gain more you don't think? But this sistem don't work like this unfortunately...do you understand now what we small studios mean?

Like I said before, I understand this is an extremely difficult situation for you and other studios. And I appreciate you taking the time to try and explain. But if your statement above means you have no choice but to ask for the much higher ticket price, then that settles it for me really. That unfortunately means I will no longer check new releases of your studio on PB. I am willing to pay around 15% more due to inflation, that really isn’t a problem, but I simply refuse to pay 25-35% more.

If I misunderstood then I apologize. I wish your studio the best.

[PAFstudio]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

We have also done experiments by lowering the price in dollars to give you a better tiket happens a very important drop in valuation with also wrapped risk of losing even the money invested ... to underline also a problem before, also Angelo, Florane and other studio They told you that the scenes are evaluated very little in recent times and now the situation is little bit more complicated for us because when we put low price for make good tiket we gane more bad...The good thing is that now even old scenes if they sell we receive small percentages, but the new ones are quoted low and therefore in reality we do not grow up like olds studios because we are in balance to gain and lose...Demonstrable if you don't believe me, I'm real transparent and honest about this, I told you If It Was for Us I can put the scene at 1$ with 25.000 viev if I sell for 5.000 people I can gain more you don't think? But this sistem don't work like this unfortunately...do you understand now what we small studios mean?

Like I said before, I understand this is an extremely difficult situation for you and other studios. And I appreciate you taking the time to try and explain. But if your statement above means you have no choice but to ask for the much higher ticket price, then that settles it for me really. That unfortunately means I will no longer check new releases of your studio on PB. I am willing to pay around 15% more due to inflation, that really isn’t a problem, but I simply refuse to pay 25-35% more.

If I misunderstood then I apologize. I wish your studio the best.

This is not a solution that helps us we are putting the tikets to a right price but we need a valuation better like Last year... I didn't say that we don't but good price but I told you when we put less we gain less... If I spend 1400$ and I gain 1700$ is good profit for you!? This is the problem for me and other studios

[PAFstudio]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end producer.
2) Has this been made clear to all (also small) studios by Pornbox management?

Please dont answer only question nr. 2!
Thanks!

We have also done experiments by lowering the price in dollars to give you a better tiket happens a very important drop in valuation with also wrapped risk of losing even the money invested ... to underline also a problem before, also Angelo, Florane and other studio They told you that the scenes are evaluated very little in recent times and now the situation is little bit more complicated for us because when we put low price for make good tiket we gane more bad...The good thing is that now even old scenes if they sell we receive small percentages, but the new ones are quoted low and therefore in reality we do not grow up like olds studios because we are in balance to gain and lose...Demonstrable if you don't believe me, I'm real transparent and honest about this, I told you If It Was for Us I can put the scene at 1$ with 25.000 viev if I sell for 5.000 people I can gain more you don't think? But this sistem don't work like this unfortunately...do you understand now what we small studios mean?

Like I said before, I understand this is an extremely difficult situation for you and other studios. And I appreciate you taking the time to try and explain. But if your statement above means you have no choice but to ask for the much higher ticket price, then that settles it for me really. That unfortunately means I will no longer check new releases of your studio on PB. I am willing to pay around 15% more due to inflation, that really isn’t a problem, but I simply refuse to pay 25-35% more.

If I misunderstood then I apologize. I wish your studio the best.

But of the whole novel that I wrote, what have I not been able to make you intuit or understand? It is evident that something is wrong and you are falling into the trap, saying I will not check your scenes anymore you are making a stupid move, because we will always put a good tiket for you, the problem is that you have to evaluate the scenes in a better way and give us a fixed and if you want to keep the other studies alive, you have to help and support us by not fighting against us with these statements ... in practice we are telling you that we are suffering and you hit us instead of helping us? You are understanding that there is someone here who hopes that many of us no longer produce and that they continue to create problems even to contact artists ... you understand that the real problem is only covered by this bullshit of tiket... Be smart please and think good when you read the my message because is more clear, thank you

[DPraved]

It seems to me that most producers don't realise how the ticket system works for us customers, so I'll try to explain my situation regarding this:

I purchase the 3 month membership that costs about 70 Euros. This gets me 144 tickets split over 3 months, that is 48 tickets per month. This was equivalent to 6 scenes per month, each costing 8 tickets.

After the ticket devaluation I can now only buy 4 scenes per month for the tickets I receive for my membership! This means my purchases decrease by 1/3 for the tickets I get from my membership. Seeing how I must now buy 2 scenes less each month, this means I'm a LOT less likely to buy anything on impulse, because doing so I would have to wait weeks until I get my tickets for the next month. The scenes I do buy now have to be the best scene of the week, or feature the model I'm most obsessed about a the time. Anything less than that simply doesn't make the cut.

In essence, the ticket devaluation cut the purchasing power of this platform by 1/3 and customers have to economize and be a lot more selective of what they buy. If a producer sees a drop in sales less than 30% they actually perform better than expected, statistically speaking, but unless 30% less scenes sold gives the producer the same amount of money as before from the platform, you should be as upset as your customers.

[YumYum74]

It seems to me that most producers don't realise how the ticket system works for us customers, so I'll try to explain my situation regarding this:

I purchase the 3 month membership that costs about 70 Euros. This gets me 144 tickets split over 3 months, that is 48 tickets per month. This was equivalent to 6 scenes per month, each costing 8 tickets.

After the ticket devaluation I can now only buy 4 scenes per month for the tickets I receive for my membership! This means my purchases decrease by 1/3 for the tickets I get from my membership. Seeing how I must now buy 2 scenes less each month, this means I'm a LOT less likely to buy anything on impulse, because doing so I would have to wait weeks until I get my tickets for the next month. The scenes I do buy now have to be the best scene of the week, or feature the model I'm most obsessed about a the time. Anything less than that simply doesn't make the cut.

In essence, the ticket devaluation cut the purchasing power of this platform by 1/3 and customers have to economize and be a lot more selective of what they buy. If a producer sees a drop in sales less than 30% they actually perform better than expected, statistically speaking, but unless 30% less scenes sold gives the producer the same amount of money as before from the platform, you should be as upset as your customers.

DPraved, you explain it much better than I did in my reply to PAF. For PAF: it’s not that I don’t want to buy scenes, believe me I do. I simply have to economize after this whole ticket fiasco and that means I have no choice but to buy a lot less scenes than before.

[avanfurwet]

Guaranteed minimum return.

On the face of it, this seems attractive to producers, but as the catchphrase in that old horror movie goes, "be careful what you wish for".

If the platform (Pornbox) agreed to give a producer a guaranteed minimum price, that producer would lose control over their own work. The producer would become more like an employee or sub-contractor subject to the direction and control of their employer (Pornbox). You would become like a house painter working for a big building company.

Pornbox would call all the shots, from sanctioning which scenes get made and when, exact specifications for each scene, which actresses could be hired, etc. etc. And Pornbox would be able to decide at their sole discretion whether the producer met their agreed standards, and withold payment if not.

And since Pornbox would be taking over all risk that sometimes a scene will make a loss, the producer would have to accept a lower payout for every scene since Pornbox would deserve a bigger percentage reward for taking that extra risk.


Actresses "blocked" or "blackmailed" not to work with other studios.

I don't know what is really happening here, or how nasty it really is. Maybe it is as silly and counterproductive as PAF say.

But I can understand why a studio making scenes to sell on Pornbox would decline to book an actress within a given period of time of that actress working for other studio(s) also releasing their scenes on Pornbox. Because the customer base can only absorb a certain amount of releases with the same actress around the same time.

So studio "A" might tell an actress they will not book her this month if she just made 3 scenes with studio "B".


Cooperative solutions needed.

I appreciate PAF's passionate wish to have a fair solution for everyone, but IMO raging against "the system" and calling a customer stupid if they don't agree to pay (unexplained, arbitrary) higher prices is not going to win friends and influence people. As far as I can see, it is in xxx's business interest for new studios like PAF, N&F, AGO etc. to succeed because then xxx makes more money.

Again, IMO if a studio increases it's prices by 35% and if this results in a 40% reduction in sales, that studio is pointing their own gun to their own head.

[PAFstudio]

It seems to me that most producers don't realise how the ticket system works for us customers, so I'll try to explain my situation regarding this:

I purchase the 3 month membership that costs about 70 Euros. This gets me 144 tickets split over 3 months, that is 48 tickets per month. This was equivalent to 6 scenes per month, each costing 8 tickets.

After the ticket devaluation I can now only buy 4 scenes per month for the tickets I receive for my membership! This means my purchases decrease by 1/3 for the tickets I get from my membership. Seeing how I must now buy 2 scenes less each month, this means I'm a LOT less likely to buy anything on impulse, because doing so I would have to wait weeks until I get my tickets for the next month. The scenes I do buy now have to be the best scene of the week, or feature the model I'm most obsessed about a the time. Anything less than that simply doesn't make the cut.

In essence, the ticket devaluation cut the purchasing power of this platform by 1/3 and customers have to economize and be a lot more selective of what they buy. If a producer sees a drop in sales less than 30% they actually perform better than expected, statistically speaking, but unless 30% less scenes sold gives the producer the same amount of money as before from the platform, you should be as upset as your customers.

DPraved, you explain it much better than I did in my reply to PAF. For PAF: it’s not that I don’t want to buy scenes, believe me I do. I simply have to economize after this whole ticket fiasco and that means I have no choice but to buy a lot less scenes than before.

Guys the problem is clear, to some of us the scenes are evaluated little, despite this we are strong and we do not give up, now there is this problem of tikets, and as you have understood if we lower the price a lot we risk failing but if the price is high you do not buy and so you think that we are the bad guys, and you are falling into tactics... who knows why only we new studies but we have all these problems, if it were so for everyone a larger study should have more problems than the one small because have to spend more moneyThis situation is likely to become ugly and I would not be surprised by any cases of violence, lack of money you know is the primary cause of any bad consequence ... so tougher to make the war of the poor on who has to survive and other bullshit that does not hold we try to help us all and put a fixed minimum of earnings for us small professional studios so you fans will have a good tiket and we a good profit, no war and no problem for anyone is simple no? And above all I hope that we can exchange actors and actresses and that all this crap of blackmail ends...There is to eat and work for everyone, helping each other is an intelligent solution, not war... Thank you

[magizi87]

I wanna say something, because I still care, I still hope, but I fear spending some much time analizing, thinking and writting for my post to get deleted. lol

[dap-addict]

As we have so many inside posters let me ask 2 easy questions:
1) Ticket devaluation was 35%, meaning that prices for those of us paying in tickets (=almost all us subscribers) went up by 35%: Does this mean that studios get +35% more payout for each scene?
1b) or does it mean - as it seems Angelo Godshack, Florane Russell and PAF believe - that studios dont get a higher payout for these scenes that cost 35% more tickets for the end user (corrected!).

If the same amount of people as before buy your content, you make 35% more.

They are wrong. All those theories and misconceptions floating around really add to the confusion.

Thanks a lot, xxx.

So, if that's all, than judging from inside voices it looks like a battle of big vs small studios. Small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F all in a way are on the same track as gonzo and GIO/GL, thus they must have diminished the sales and thus profit of big studios. At the moment we have a split (and maybe agreed before tactic) of GIO/GL steering clearly to implement +35% price rise for end user and gonzo steering towards old prices by lowering prices in $. (While at this very moment gonzo doenst release new scenes at all, which makes it even easier).
If small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F have to close because they go bankrupt, big studios like gonzo, GIO/GL will have higher profits again.


This said, AGO is currently testing market by lowering prices to a +17,5% level. Maybe that works out. Lets hope so for them! Than PAF and N&F could try the same.

[avanfurwet]

... So, if that's all, than judging from inside voices it looks like a battle of big vs small studios. Small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F all in a way are on the same track as gonzo and GIO/GL, thus they must have diminished the sales and thus profit of big studios. At the moment we have a split (and maybe agreed before tactic) of GIO/GL steering clearly to implement +35% price rise for end user and gonzo steering towards old prices by lowering prices in $. (While at this very moment gonzo doenst release new scenes at all, which makes it even easier).
If small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F have to close because they go bankrupt, big studios like gonzo, GIO/GL will have higher profits again.

This said, AGO is currently testing market by lowering prices to a +17,5% level. Maybe that works out. Lets hope so for them! Than PAF and N&F could try the same.

They only cannibalise each other's market share if you assume that all these studios are competing to offer similar undifferentiated products to a fixed pool of customers. I don't think that is happening.

For example, Giorgio has built his business on making scenes with a particular look and feel which his loyal customers will keep buying from him, even at higher prices.
Other studios each seek to compete with Giorgio by offering something different than just a "me-too" product.

And the pool of surfers/potential customers is not fixed. Maybe the expanded Pornbox attracts more clicks and more surfers than before?

Also, if a bigger established business wants to eliminate smaller competitors with predatory pricing, they reduce prices to increase market share and eat their competitors' lunch. Giorgio has increased his prices. So Giorgio will be selling the same or fewer copies than before. I don't think Giorgio's pricing is intended to attack his competitors, but to maximise the income for his own business. In fact, Giorgio's policy opens the door for smaller competitors to undercut his prices to try to build their own market share.

Finally, today's big studios were yesterday's small studios. Maybe they got lucky, but probably they worked hard, innovated, made some mistakes, learned some lessons and built up their businesses slowly over time.

And today's large established studios are also "factories" churning out low-risk cookie-cutter scenes. They cannot afford to take too many risks with innovating because their factory has high fixed costs and many mouths to feed. They need to be shooting almost every day and making products which are probably going to sell predictable quantities. Again, this opens the door for smaller more agile challenger studios with lower costs to take risks and innovate in hope of winning customers for themselves.

[Giorgio Grandi]

... So, if that's all, than judging from inside voices it looks like a battle of big vs small studios. Small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F all in a way are on the same track as gonzo and GIO/GL, thus they must have diminished the sales and thus profit of big studios. At the moment we have a split (and maybe agreed before tactic) of GIO/GL steering clearly to implement +35% price rise for end user and gonzo steering towards old prices by lowering prices in $. (While at this very moment gonzo doenst release new scenes at all, which makes it even easier).
If small studios like AGA, PAF and N&F have to close because they go bankrupt, big studios like gonzo, GIO/GL will have higher profits again.

This said, AGO is currently testing market by lowering prices to a +17,5% level. Maybe that works out. Lets hope so for them! Than PAF and N&F could try the same.

They only cannibalise each other's market share if you assume that all these studios are competing to offer similar undifferentiated products to a fixed pool of customers. I don't think that is happening.

For example, Giorgio has built his business on making scenes with a particular look and feel which his loyal customers will keep buying from him, even at higher prices.
Other studios each seek to compete with Giorgio by offering something different than just a "me-too" product.

And the pool of surfers/potential customers is not fixed. Maybe the expanded Pornbox attracts more clicks and more surfers than before?

Also, if a bigger established business wants to eliminate smaller competitors with predatory pricing, they reduce prices to increase market share and eat their competitors' lunch. Giorgio has increased his prices. So Giorgio will be selling the same or fewer copies than before. I don't think Giorgio's pricing is intended to attack his competitors, but to maximise the income for his own business. In fact, Giorgio's policy opens the door for smaller competitors to undercut his prices to try to build their own market share.

Finally, today's big studios were yesterday's small studios. Maybe they got lucky, but probably they worked hard, innovated, made some mistakes, learned some lessons and built up their businesses slowly over time.

And today's large established studios are also "factories" churning out low-risk cookie-cutter scenes. They cannot afford to take too many risks with innovating because their factory has high fixed costs and many mouths to feed. They need to be shooting almost every day and making products which are probably going to sell predictable quantities. Again, this opens the door for smaller more agile challenger studios with lower costs to take risks and innovate in hope of winning customers for themselves.

Overall, the smartest post I read in a long time, very long time.

[dap-addict]

For example, Giorgio has built his business on making scenes with a particular look and feel which his loyal customers will keep buying from him, even at higher prices.

Well, it doenst work for me anymore.
It worked still during last price rise in pandemic, because that was around 15% up, but it doenst anymore with +35% up because I simply dont feel threaded fairly anymore. And judging from other active GIO/GL supporters it doenst work for them either.
But I do agree that he is trying to maximize his profits. And thats basically not a bad thing, IF he also cares for giving his users a feeling of fairness.
He still posts here and explains things, thats good basically.

[Giorgio Grandi]

For example, Giorgio has built his business on making scenes with a particular look and feel which his loyal customers will keep buying from him, even at higher prices.

Well, it doenst work for me anymore.
It worked still during last price rise in pandemic, because that was around 15% up, but it doenst anymore with +35% up because I simply dont feel threaded fairly anymore. And judging from other active GIO/GL supporters it doenst work for them either.
But I do agree that he is trying to maximize his profits. And thats basically not a bad thing, IF he also cares for giving his users a feeling of fairness.
He still posts here and explains things, thats good basically.

Sorry chap, I think you understood almost zero from the post of "avanfurwet", this bring you to write nonsense like this "he also cares for giving his users a feeling of fairness"

the post of avanfurwet is EXTRAORDINARY. It looks like the post written from an adult business commercial adviser.
It tells you why small studio struggle with sales, if tells you why bigger studios chose the higher pricing.

He is just wrong when he think we dont take risk, when in fact I take more risk than anyone else.

Our content were underpriced, I wrote this on Jun 15, 2021 already. This adjustment in the conversion makes it just righ. I am not telling you that our monthly profit gets higher, I just tell you the value of the content is now more correct (related to the price in tkt).
You see it as a devaluation of your ticket, but in fact the new conversion rate makes the price in tkt to match better the original price in USD and gives to the content the right value.

[dap-addict]

Our content were underpriced, I wrote this on Jun 15, 2021 already. This adjustment in the conversion makes it just righ. I am not telling you that our monthly profit gets higher, I just tell you the value of the content is now more correct (related to the price in tkt).
You see it as a devaluation of your ticket, but in fact the new conversion rate makes the price in tkt to match better the original price in USD and gives to the content the right value.

But than you could survive pretty good for almost 1year, or not? I guess yes, because you did not rise your prices in $.
But now you all over a sudden want us to pay +15% in tickets, which we pay with real money, more! So why is that fair treatment of loyal customers?
Call me stubborn but I still dont understand such a sudden and unheralded price rise.


Btw, I suggested to xxx a phasing in of that price every quarter of 2022. That might have avoided all these protests. But +35% at once is really a lot!

[dap-addict]

edit:
But than you could survive pretty good for almost 1year, or not? I guess yes, because you did not rise your prices in $.
But now you all over a sudden want us to pay +35% in tickets, which we pay with real money, more!
So why is that fair treatment of loyal customers?
Call me stubborn but I still dont understand such a sudden and unheralded price rise.


Btw, I suggested to xxx a phasing in of that price every quarter of 2022. That might have avoided all these protests. But +35% at once is really a lot![/quote]

[YumYum74]

@dap-addict, I think it’s safe to say that after a month Giorgio has seen the numbers, and this price hike will not affect him too much (maybe it even increased his profits). There’s no chance in hell he’s turning this back, that much is clear, so just take his advice (and mine) and get your porn elsewhere.

[Giorgio Grandi]

Our content were underpriced, I wrote this on Jun 15, 2021 already. This adjustment in the conversion makes it just righ. I am not telling you that our monthly profit gets higher, I just tell you the value of the content is now more correct (related to the price in tkt).
You see it as a devaluation of your ticket, but in fact the new conversion rate makes the price in tkt to match better the original price in USD and gives to the content the right value.

But than you could survive pretty good for almost 1year, or not? I guess yes, because you did not rise your prices in $.
But now you all over a sudden want us to pay +15% in tickets, which we pay with real money, more! So why is that fair treatment of loyal customers?
Call me stubborn but I still dont understand such a sudden and unheralded price rise.


Btw, I suggested to xxx a phasing in of that price every quarter of 2022. That might have avoided all these protests. But +35% at once is really a lot!

Did you check my post from June 15, 2021? I guess you did not.
Here you go:
---
An amateur video of a girl fucking 15 minute with a friend, on "private platform" can cost 10-20$, on PB GL478 (just to make an example) is 8.3tkt = 4.56$

For reference.
80 USD -> 144 tkt
80/144=0,55$
Price for 1 ticket, 0.55$

Just saying: 5tkt=2.75$
Or better an example: GL478 is 8.3tkt = 4.56$

GL478 is underpriced at least 300-400% respect to an homemade content, but the production cost of the content on PB is hundreds of time more expensive.
--

You are stubborn, yes you are.
:-)

The price in $ of the scenes did not change because was correct also before. What changed is the conversion rate between the money you spend and the tickets you get.
How to explain it in a way no one used yet, which is not even totally correct but maybe you get the point: the discount you have now purchasing in tkt is less than before (as before maybe the discount you had was too much as I wrote on June 15, 2021).
So for accuracy the conversion changed and now the price in tkt provide a little discount and not a huge discount.

The price in tkt was too far away from the price in USD.
If you do not get it now, you wont get it never.

Btw, inflation in CZ at april 2022 +14.2% (its the 4th month of the year, analysis suggest an inflation over 25% this year), so no matter what the prices were going to rise.