POLL: Fairest studio after 35% tkt price rise of 15th April?

[dap-addict]

But look, if with 35% less ticket value (after conversion to $$) you could be sustainable and make some profit all over 2021, so why in 2022 you need to generate so much more profit?

You totally did not understand pages of topic, did you?

Okay, lets say I understand nothing, Giorgio.
Fact still remains that as a user I pay 35% more for content, and you know I buy a lot of your scenes, and you make more money by that because for the tickets needed I pay in $ as well. So question remains how much more profit you need to make your business sustainable in 2022? If you need 1/3 more income, than I accept that, but I would like you to come here and explain that to me still.

I write all this not knowing how is percentage of users paying directly in $ vs. those paying in tickets (bought with $ or any other currency based on $)


Now let me re-post and highlight red an xxx answer because it shows something valid and important about fairness from another thread today:

GGG is the biggest lunatic I have ever seen. He made really great extra money ($xxx.xxx) without any work (we did all the grunt work).

We had a dispute with them because they categorically refused to add their new content to their membership, effectively scamming their own members and us, as a platform.

They don't care at all about their customers. This is something that we cannot accept so they were kicked out.

Let me add that we will be much more careful in analyzing the offers we have here : we do not want to be more expensive or have less than other platforms.

It's not perfect at the moment but at some point, it will be. We want buyers to be confident that they are getting the best prices.

[Starrio]

Oscar Batty is correct. In the locked up thread I mentioned that it wasn't the studios' fault, it was all done by Pornbox wanting to make more money from tickets. Pornbox is the one screwing studios and making them look bad. It is not the producers that have any guilt this time. The evil here is Pornbox getting greedy.

ADMIN EDIT : this person doesn't know what they are talking about at all. No one is screwing studios. Pornbox isn't benefiting in any way with this change. We are only pricing content more accurately. Studios want high prices, not Pornbox, and if extra money is made it's for them.

Watch what you write in the future. I have very little patience for people spreading BS like this. We adjusted the conversion. It doesn't mean that it was a move to screw up anyone (we said they should simply decrease their prices if they just want things to be the same as before), especially not studios when we did this to help them reach their own fucking prices. No one is "getting greedy".

I'm like the 10th person saying that in the thread and you focus on me?

Plus it is not my fault that's the way things were explained by YOU

This is how it was explained:

1. A scene cost a certain amount of dollars
2. The previous ticket price didn't represent accurately that amount of dollars
3. Now with the increase the tickets represent more accurately the amount of dollars
4. The studios hasn't changed their prices, they give a dollar value to their content, and that hasn't changed
5. What changed was the ticket price, and that's something they don't control, Pornbox does

This is what you have been saying, so I'm not making up bullshit, I'm just repeating what has been said by YOU. So if those 5 points is bullshit, then I'm not the one making it up.

If this is an emotional topic for you then explain things clearly. Look DAP-Addict, GIO keeps saying he doesn't understand the situation, and as a costumer that's bot his fault.

The information about ticket increase benefiting the studios just came out on this page after I made the comment, and it was GIO that confirmed it. This information wasn't shared before. So if you don't want all these costumers to talk bullshit then stop saying bullshit, or explain things fully, so people understand the exact situation.

You can't judge costumers for repeating what you said before new information was provided.

[Starrio]

But look, if with 35% less ticket value (after conversion to $$) you could be sustainable and make some profit all over 2021, so why in 2022 you need to generate so much more profit?

You totally did not understand pages of topic, did you?

Okay, lets say I understand nothing, Giorgio.
Fact still remains that as a user I pay 35% more for content, and you know I buy a lot of your scenes, and you make more money by that because for the tickets needed I pay in $ as well. So question remains how much more profit you need to make your business sustainable in 2022? If you need 1/3 more income, than I accept that, but I would like you to come here and explain that to me still.

I write all this not knowing how is percentage of users paying directly in $ vs. those paying in tickets (bought with $ or any other currency based on $)


Now let me re-post and highlight red an xxx answer because it shows something valid and important about fairness from another thread today:

GGG is the biggest lunatic I have ever seen. He made really great extra money ($xxx.xxx) without any work (we did all the grunt work).

We had a dispute with them because they categorically refused to add their new content to their membership, effectively scamming their own members and us, as a platform.

They don't care at all about their customers. This is something that we cannot accept so they were kicked out.

Let me add that we will be much more careful in analyzing the offers we have here : we do not want to be more expensive or have less than other platforms.

It's not perfect at the moment but at some point, it will be. We want buyers to be confident that they are getting the best prices.

I actually asked this question specifically to XXX a couple months ago. I asked:

"If you buy stuff with tickets or money, does it make a difference?"

That was my question to make more informed purchases, and his answer was "NO", that it didn't make a difference and that the producers still got the same monetary value once converted.

If that answer was correct and that was the case, the ticket increase these days wouldn't have been necessary.

So it is not your fault for not understanding the situation. Some things aren't being explained correctly.

[xxx]

They are paid the real money equivalent of your tickets. So if your tickets were cheap they make less.

[Starrio]

They are paid the real money equivalent of your tickets. So if your tickets were cheap they make less.

That's the point, when I asked the question the tickets were the normal way they have been forever.

So when you answered "NO" that it didn't make a difference, then either that wasn't accurate or something wasn't transparent.

Because now you say that you had to decrease ticket value to make it more accurate to the money equivalent, and this just happened, many months after I asked that question.

So don't blame us for saying it doesn't affect the studios because according to YOUR explanation it does.

And the reason why it sounds that way is because now studios have to charge less just to make the ticket value of their videos go down, which they didn't had to do before.

Do you understand the dilemma? It's not that DAP doesn't understand, it is not that we don't understand, what happens is that this is the way you are explaining the changes.

These are not things we have said, we are just quoting you those answers.

[YumYum74]

Man, I would like to say and ask so many more things regarding this. But I’m not gonna bother. It’s never gonna end in an explanation that will satisfy any of us as customers, let alone lead to some sort of solution for those of us that have voiced their concern. This is the road they have chosen. I hope it works out for them, I know it will for me cause I get to keep a whole bunch of money I can now spend elsewhere.

[xxx]

They are paid the real money equivalent of your tickets. So if your tickets were cheap they make less.

That's the point, when I asked the question the tickets were the normal way they have been forever.

So when you answered "NO" that it didn't make a difference, then either that wasn't accurate or something wasn't transparent.

Because now you say that you had to decrease ticket value to make it more accurate to the money equivalent, and this just happened, many months after I asked that question.

So don't blame us for saying it doesn't affect the studios because according to YOUR explanation it does.

And the reason why it sounds that way is because now studios have to charge less just to make the ticket value of their videos go down, which they didn't had to do before.

Do you understand the dilemma? It's not that DAP doesn't understand, it is not that we don't understand, what happens is that this is the way you are explaining the changes.

These are not things we have said, we are just quoting you those answers.

Your exact question was :
If you buy stuff with tickets or money, does it make a difference? Is there a delay in payment or a fee we don't know about, that would benefit the support for the model using one method over the other?

My answer was :
No, content creators always receive $$$, not tickets. They are converted based on their exact monetary value.

I meant that our content partners get the exact real money you spent. It doesn't make a difference if you pay USD or tickets. It was meaningless to present or understand the question in a different manner because it is clear that tickets are here to produce a discount for the buyer. So obviously if you use tickets they get less money...

Because TKTs cost less than a dollar per (for most buyers) and TKT price is always lower than the USD price, your question was clearly focused on understanding if there was some sort of inconsistency in the conversion, and I told you that there is none. You're just revisiting your question now to make it look different than it was.

[xxx]

Man, I would like to say and ask so many more things regarding this. But I’m not gonna bother. It’s never gonna end in an explanation that will satisfy any of us as customers, let alone lead to some sort of solution for those of us that have voiced their concern. This is the road they have chosen. I hope it works out for them, I know it will for me cause I get to keep a whole bunch of money I can now spend elsewhere.

Feel free to ask a question or two while I am here.

[YumYum74]

I’m good, thanks. It’s only gonna get me riled up again, just as I was when my 250 ticket package lost 35% of its value overnight. So I’ll just have to take that loss and direct my attention elsewhere. Cause like I said, it’s not gonna get me anywhere, so why bother?

[Ultra-Gape]

Yes, we customers know that PB are a long-term investor who buy a lifetime licence for the scenes, 14 days after release, so they take on the risks and rewards of future sales. Therefore the studios get their payout quickly and smaller studio businesses can recycle this payment into producing more scenes, which is good business for both studios and PB.

I'm curious firstly if this is accurate, and secondly if it is as simple as producers getting 100% of the sales revenue for the first 14 days and Pornbox getting 100% of the sales revenue after this? As someone who more sporadically purchases here I'd be interested, as currently I'd rarely buy within 14 days but I'd certainly like producers to be benefiting.

[Giorgio Grandi]

But look, if with 35% less ticket value (after conversion to $$) you could be sustainable and make some profit all over 2021, so why in 2022 you need to generate so much more profit?

You totally did not understand pages of topic, did you?

Okay, lets say I understand nothing, Giorgio.
Fact still remains that as a user I pay 35% more for content, and you know I buy a lot of your scenes, and you make more money by that because for the tickets needed I pay in $ as well. So question remains how much more profit you need to make your business sustainable in 2022? If you need 1/3 more income, than I accept that, but I would like you to come here and explain that to me still.

I write all this not knowing how is percentage of users paying directly in $ vs. those paying in tickets (bought with $ or any other currency based on $)

its not 1/3 more income, this would happen if everyone will just continue to shop like before, just buying more tickets and this is not going to happen. You are the first claiming you are not shopping a lot like before.
The point is totally different, you see our work (as studios, plural) like someone that make the same profit in % on every scene, but you are well aware it is not like this.
There are scene where we (studios) lose hundreds or even thousands, and other scene where we (studios) make hundreds or even thousands. Big studio like me, with a huge number of scenes released, large base of users, long history, brand and whatever, have a "benefit". The benefits is that for every scene when I lose money or where the profit is even silly, there is a huge probability that I have another that "compensate" the loss, with high profit in the same month.
Why do I shoot girl/scene that are not profitable as the other? Because to get new girls you need to invest, try, take risks and lose.

Now follow me carefully
I personally believe the more studios we are here on PB, the more PB can grow, the more people will be attracted to the website, the more benefit for everyone.
Now, I know you are mainly a customer of 3-4, maybe 5 studios, but the reality is that there are more studios, much more. The studios that get a real benefit from the change of rate, are other studios than the 4-5 where you usually do your shopping. The studios that make less sales, are going to get a important increase of their payout, something they can use and invest also in new scenes, new girls or simply to get drunk in the pub, it is up to them.

If the studios (most of them) do not get what they wish to get, PB has a problem. So PB did their job: adjust the rate between usd and tkt will probably help who was not able to get the $ they needed, giving them a better payout. On the other side, who was already happy (as me), would get probably some benefit from this, or no benefit or whatever, but probably for many studios will make the difference between to stay or to give up.

I will decide about my prices when I will have enough data to understand what is changed regarding the shopping of the members, but my decision will in the interest of the performers and in the interest of the content.

[Jocke]

At these prices I am not taking any chances. I am only buying wet scenes with minimum two attractive girls.

[magizi87]

I envy Starrio that got an "admin edit" instead of his post being deleted without any explanation.

In my posts that got deleted all I was trying to explain is that when I evaluate what is the pornbox offering and for how much,
I consider what other producers, outside the pornbox, offer at the same time. And decide what to buy based on that info.

I find that the pornbox offer is not good enough, considering their asking price and quality, etc.

That seems iike very valuable information to a producer, owner, I mean,
I have hand picked over 2000 scenes, that I paid money for, lol.
spent countless hours promoting with gifs that got millions of views on reddit

I didn't use any foul language or anything and my post got deleted.

yay!

Moving on, I still find it hard to believe that, when argubly your most loyal costumer, DAP-Addict,
a guy who spends more time on the forum than probaly watching porn,
I don't know this for a fact but he has claimed to own many scenes that he has yet to watch,
and you know, look at his total posts counter.

Everytime I was critiziing legalporno, he was usually the first guy to shoot me down
and say how wonderful, fair and amazing legalporno was, lol.

And he is the one telling you, hey prices for us, are unfair. thats the sentiment of this thread, and countless others.

How hard to understand this emotion really is?

It is kinda of irrelevant that pornbox and producers are super happy and everything is awesome for them.

Yumyum74 bought 250 tkt and now they are worth 35% less and XXX is saying that they aim to be competitive?

[xxx]

We (Pornbox) do not decide of the price of content. Our job is to sell it at the price our content creators chose. There was too big of a discrepancy between what they really want and what we sell it at. We corrected it and recommended that they should decrease their USD prices if they just want to keep things the same. We do not benefit (and did not benefit) in any way from that increase in price (and never expected to benefit from it) but we did it for the sake of accuracy. We also want studios to be conscious that their prices are high.

[drevokocur66]

We (Pornbox) do not decide of the price of content. Our job is to sell it at the price our content creators chose. There was too big of a discrepancy between what they really want and what we sell it at. We corrected it and recommended that they should decrease their USD prices if they just want to keep things the same. We do not benefit (and did not benefit) in any way from that increase in price (and never expected to benefit from it) but we did it for the sake of accuracy. We also want studios to be conscious that their prices are high.

I am confused. Since my cost is now higher, who does benefit? Or do the extra tickets just evaporate?

[dap-addict]

drevokocur, if I got this right - and also what Giorgio Grandi answered me above - than the studios benefit because they get more money after ticket devaluation by 35%. They get more because 1tkt spend by us is worth more converted to $$.
But problem they face is that items sold went down after de facto price increase for customers. And studios have to evaluate new situation first.

Some of the studios just lowered their prices again to pre-devaluation level hoping to sell more items, some did nothing. Some were concerned enough to come here or into other threads to talk to us users (Oscar/Mambo Perv, Giorgio/GIO/GLab/Xfreax, Jack/PAF, gonzo indirect) and some like Angelo Godshack (AGO studio) have done nothing and said nothing. Interesting enough is that in meanwhile closed thread xxx takes AGO as example, maybe suggesting that it was that studio to complain about conversion rate from tickets to $.

What I see is a big mess and indeed a rise of bad sentiments amongst loyal customers. I also just re-counted how much subscription really gives us and for me it looks like 4-5% of ticket price reduction only. IF I remember right in closed thread xxx or Giorgio claimed it was 10%. Anyway, just one additional point increasing my feeling of an unfair treatment as a loyal customer of 8+ years.

This said I really appreciate that producers and PB management came here last days and tried to explain what was happening - and what could be happening in the future. At least there is some sort of communication.

[Seraph0257]

NTP (Natasha Teen Productions) is the only one still affordable, plus I like most of the content there anyway.

[Starrio]

To be fair XXX doesn't strike me as the type of guy that looks ahead. So even with all the ridiculous insults and lack of people skills he shows here, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

If GIO is having his back in the discussion is maybe because XXX is not such a bad person after all, who knows, the guy obviously lacks many qualities, but there must be something there for GIO having his back in all of this.

In the end there is a big chance some new studios, Angelo, or some of the newer girls studios, who knows who, were likely complaining to XXX that the money they were receiving for sales didn't reflect the amount of scenes sold according to the price they originally set.

So it is likely XXX was just trying to please them and then that came back to bite him in the ass. In which case I hope those studios get karma because that move end up screwing everyone, but that's just a possibility, it's hard to know what really happened.

All we know is that the ridiculously high ticket price increase is one of the all time most offensive and disrespectful moves I have seen a business do against their base. Which is why all these loyal costumers are so pissed, and not to mention all the ones that don't even voice out their complains, which is usually the majority of costumers on any given business.

[avanfurwet]

Yes, we customers know that PB are a long-term investor who buy a lifetime licence for the scenes, 14 days after release, so they take on the risks and rewards of future sales. Therefore the studios get their payout quickly and smaller studio businesses can recycle this payment into producing more scenes, which is good business for both studios and PB.

I'm curious firstly if this is accurate, and secondly if it is as simple as producers getting 100% of the sales revenue for the first 14 days and Pornbox getting 100% of the sales revenue after this? As someone who more sporadically purchases here I'd be interested, as currently I'd rarely buy within 14 days but I'd certainly like producers to be benefiting.

Producers do benefit from sales after 14 days.

Pornbox buy a lifetime licence after 14 days.

So PB pay the producer in advance for all expected future sales.

PB take the risk (and reward) if future sales are below (or above) expectations.

The size of the licence payment is determined by sales during the first 14 days. A more popular scene earns a bigger licence payment.

Obviously as a customer I don't know the deal(s) between producers and Pornbox as to who keeps what % of revenues.

But you can get an idea of how platform payouts work by looking at a copycat/competitor's website.

This has been discussed in this forum before, I think with Florane in her studio's thread.

I've tried to explain this before to Starrio, but I failed because he seemed convinced that PB are keeping all the producer's money after 14 days, which is wrong.

[avanfurwet]

To be fair XXX doesn't strike me as the type of guy that looks ahead.

He does seem to have built up quite a number of successful businesses over the years. I wonder how he managed that?

[avanfurwet]

We (Pornbox) do not decide of the price of content. Our job is to sell it at the price our content creators chose. There was too big of a discrepancy between what they really want and what we sell it at. We corrected it and recommended that they should decrease their USD prices if they just want to keep things the same. We do not benefit (and did not benefit) in any way from that increase in price (and never expected to benefit from it) but we did it for the sake of accuracy. We also want studios to be conscious that their prices are high.

I am confused. Since my cost is now higher, who does benefit? Or do the extra tickets just evaporate?

tldr: we are being told that the extra tickets are converted into more $$$ which is paid out to the studios.

[Giorgio Grandi]

To be fair XXX doesn't strike me as the type of guy that looks ahead. So even with all the ridiculous insults and lack of people skills he shows here, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

If GIO is having his back in the discussion is maybe because XXX is not such a bad person after all, who knows, the guy obviously lacks many qualities, but there must be something there for GIO having his back in all of this.

In the end there is a big chance some new studios, Angelo, or some of the newer girls studios, who knows who, were likely complaining to XXX that the money they were receiving for sales didn't reflect the amount of scenes sold according to the price they originally set.

So it is likely XXX was just trying to please them and then that came back to bite him in the ass. In which case I hope those studios get karma because that move end up screwing everyone, but that's just a possibility, it's hard to know what really happened.

All we know is that the ridiculously high ticket price increase is one of the all time most offensive and disrespectful moves I have seen a business do against their base. Which is why all these loyal costumers are so pissed, and not to mention all the ones that don't even voice out their complains, which is usually the majority of costumers on any given business.

I dont have his back, I simply explained to dap-addict a point I believe, xxx maybe see the situation even in a different way.
Also, he really deosnt need me having is back.

The point you maybe do not get is that he did his homework, there is no reason to believe he doesnt know what he is doing. In fact I would say he has proven over the years that he knows "how to shoot and has good aim". Also, and this is the more important point, he is the person I trust the most in the adult industry.
And be aware I am pretty sure we do not agree on everything between each other.
--
You maybe believe the price of the content is very high, but this is not really the main issue imho.
Some days ago I got a new model from a scout. She is so now that did I did not find anything online except some clips in a store. So I bought 3 clips from MV to give her a fact check. I spend about 25 euro for 45 minutes of videos. Content shot from a different producer, not her own production. The kind of quality you would skip without to finish to watch the trailer.
I did not like the girl much, but the content was actually not so bad tbh, just different. I actually bought other 2 scenes from the same producer, I really wanted to see more from him.
I end up spending like 40-45 euro, yes was expensive but I liked the content. if I hadnt been able to afford it, maybe I wouldnt have bought them, but still I am happy I bought it.

I understand the point of the de-valuation without warning, but I do not get the point not to buy something expensive or that costs more than before even if you can afford it.
Sorry, it is actually something that looks so "ideologic" to me or that is "a matter of principle"... something very far from my being myself.

drevokocur, if I got this right - and also what Giorgio Grandi answered me above - than the studios benefit because they get more money after ticket devaluation by 35%. They get more because 1tkt spend by us is worth more converted to $$.
But problem they face is that items sold went down after de facto price increase for customers. And studios have to evaluate new situation first.

Some of the studios just lowered their prices again to pre-devaluation level hoping to sell more items, some did nothing. Some were concerned enough to come here or into other threads to talk to us users (Oscar/Mambo Perv, Giorgio/GIO/GLab/Xfreax, Jack/PAF, gonzo indirect) and some like Angelo Godshack (AGO studio) have done nothing and said nothing. Interesting enough is that in meanwhile closed thread xxx takes AGO as example, maybe suggesting that it was that studio to complain about conversion rate from tickets to $.

What I see is a big mess and indeed a rise of bad sentiments amongst loyal customers. I also just re-counted how much subscription really gives us and for me it looks like 4-5% of ticket price reduction only. IF I remember right in closed thread xxx or Giorgio claimed it was 10%. Anyway, just one additional point increasing my feeling of an unfair treatment as a loyal customer of 8+ years.

This said I really appreciate that producers and PB management came here last days and tried to explain what was happening - and what could be happening in the future. At least there is some sort of communication.

Communication is really complicate when You (plural) freak out without to understand some actions are in the interest also of the studios, all of them. You take it like an unfair treatment to a loyal customer, but the "rate" is changed for everyone, not only for you.
Not all the studios are really able to came here and communicate with users, or really want to communicate with the users. Also, most users do not care to communicate with the studio neither.
So, the point is pretty simple, you have to wait. If the new rate is generating a price in tkt that is less profitable for the studios, I guess studios will update the prices. But on the other side, if the increasing is supported by purchases, it may not.

[YumYum74]

I understand the point of the de-valuation without warning, but I do not get the point not to buy something expensive or that costs more than before even if you can afford it.
Sorry, it is actually something that looks so "ideologic" to me or that is "a matter of principle"... something very far from my being myself.

For others this might be different, but here’s my thought process about this.

‘What the hell, I just bought a big batch of tickets, and all of a sudden they lost more than a third of their value. I’m getting screwed here. This is making me pretty angry. Well, that means if I keep buying at these inflated prices even though I can easily afford it, I’m actually rewarding them for screwing me. Fuck that, I’ll take my money elsewhere.’

We can argue all day long about how it’s actually not screwing customers and it’s all a business decision, but in the end a customer bases his spending for an important part on feeling. Whether or not you think it is justified, I feel screwed and I will not reward the business I feel is screwing me by giving them more money. That is the bottom line for me as a customer.

[Giorgio Grandi]

I understand the point of the de-valuation without warning, but I do not get the point not to buy something expensive or that costs more than before even if you can afford it.
Sorry, it is actually something that looks so "ideologic" to me or that is "a matter of principle"... something very far from my being myself.

For others this might be different, but here’s my thought process about this.

‘What the hell, I just bought a big batch of tickets, and all of a sudden they lost more than a third of their value. I’m getting screwed here. This is making me pretty angry. Well, that means if I keep buying at these inflated prices even though I can easily afford it, I’m actually rewarding them for screwing me. Fuck that, I’ll take my money elsewhere.’

We can argue all day long about how it’s actually not screwing customers and it’s all a business decision, but in the end a customer bases his spending for an important part on feeling. Whether or not you think it is justified, I feel screwed and I will not reward the business I feel is screwing me by giving them more money. That is the bottom line for me as a customer.

thank you for this clarification, but by brain force me to investigate with one more question
If you would be advised before about the difference in the value, would you have made the purchase in any case?

[YumYum74]

I understand the point of the de-valuation without warning, but I do not get the point not to buy something expensive or that costs more than before even if you can afford it.
Sorry, it is actually something that looks so "ideologic" to me or that is "a matter of principle"... something very far from my being myself.

For others this might be different, but here’s my thought process about this.

‘What the hell, I just bought a big batch of tickets, and all of a sudden they lost more than a third of their value. I’m getting screwed here. This is making me pretty angry. Well, that means if I keep buying at these inflated prices even though I can easily afford it, I’m actually rewarding them for screwing me. Fuck that, I’ll take my money elsewhere.’

We can argue all day long about how it’s actually not screwing customers and it’s all a business decision, but in the end a customer bases his spending for an important part on feeling. Whether or not you think it is justified, I feel screwed and I will not reward the business I feel is screwing me by giving them more money. That is the bottom line for me as a customer.

thank you for this clarification, but by brain force me to investigate with one more question
If you would be advised before about the difference in the value, would you have made the purchase in any case?

That is the million dollar question, isn't it? I can never say for sure, but if you indulge me I'll try to answer that in another (this time hypothetical) thought process which I think is most likely for me.

"Hmmm, they've just announced there's gonna be a big adjustment in ticket value. Well that sucks. Good thing they've given us at least a warning, so I'll just wait for a bit before buying my next batch of tickets. I'll just check how this adjustment affects me and change my spending accordingly."

So I think I would still have changed (i.e. cutting back) my spending, but I highly doubt it would be as radical as I'm planning now. For April it doesn't really show yet since I spent heavily in the first half of the month (i.e. the 'before times'), so I'm only down 15% compared to January-March). But for May and going forward it will drop drastically. Usually I just bought 250 tickets whenever I ran out (this happened a few times each month), so I was never out of tickets really. For right now I am planning to just daily check what is available, make a list of what I want and whenever that list reaches a value of 50 tickets (which will take MUCH longer now since I have become very picky and will immediately disregard anything over 10 tickets), I will buy a 50 ticket package and buy that list, and then start a new list.

If this had been communicated beforehand and CLEARLY (the fact it is still being discussed tells you a lot about how unclear it was for most of us), I would probably still have adjusted my spending, but I highly doubt it would have been as drastic as I'm planning to now.

[YumYum74]

That is the million dollar question, isn't it? I can never say for sure, but if you indulge me I'll try to answer that in another (this time hypothetical) thought process which I think is most likely for me.

"Hmmm, they've just announced there's gonna be a big adjustment in ticket value. Well that sucks. Good thing they've given us at least a warning, so I'll just wait for a bit before buying my next batch of tickets. I'll just check how this adjustment affects me and change my spending accordingly."

So I think I would still have changed (i.e. cutting back) my spending, but I highly doubt it would be as radical as I'm planning now. For April it doesn't really show yet since I spent heavily in the first half of the month (i.e. the 'before times'), so I'm only down 15% compared to January-March). But for May and going forward it will drop drastically. Usually I just bought 250 tickets whenever I ran out (this happened a few times each month), so I was never out of tickets really. For right now I am planning to just daily check what is available, make a list of what I want and whenever that list reaches a value of 50 tickets (which will take MUCH longer now since I have become very picky and will immediately disregard anything over 10 tickets), I will buy a 50 ticket package and buy that list, and then start a new list.

If this had been communicated beforehand and CLEARLY (the fact it is still being discussed tells you a lot about how unclear it was for most of us), I would probably still have adjusted my spending, but I highly doubt it would have been as drastic as I'm planning to now.

Forgot to add a final part to my previous post:

As an overall thought; if it had been communicated, then I think the feeling of being screwed (for me and others) would not have been there like it is now, which in turn would have not resulted in so much anger/drama/misunderstandings etc. Maybe it is just me and a few others that are speaking up about this and others don't care, maybe it is a lot of people who just aren't speaking up. But I think a LOT of damage could have been avoided here. And my feeling is, it is damage that is not easily undone.

[Giorgio Grandi]

Tnx

[DPraved]

But I think a LOT of damage could have been avoided here. And my feeling is, it is damage that is not easily undone.

I don't think the producers and platform owners here understand the importance of trust and goodwill. These things take time to build but can be destroyed in an instance. This discussion has reset my trust for PornBox to a pretty low level, and I will adjust my spending accordingly.

I will ask GG and xxx how they would react if for instance they had bought and payed for a premium car with all extra features and coming to collect the car finding it replaced with the base model, i.e. not getting what you payed for. Would your trust with that particular business remain unaffected or would you be pissed?

[dap-addict]

If this had been communicated beforehand and CLEARLY (the fact it is still being discussed tells you a lot about how unclear it was for most of us), I would probably still have adjusted my spending, but I highly doubt it would have been as drastic as I'm planning to now.

Forgot to add a final part to my previous post:
As an overall thought; if it had been communicated, then I think the feeling of being screwed (for me and others) would not have been there like it is now, which in turn would have not resulted in so much anger/drama/misunderstandings etc.

Thats exactly the point for me: I feel screwed by a company I really trusted and its not an "ideological thing" not spending even if I have the money, but I simply dont want to reward such behavior! And now actually it has turned into a kind of backlash-game for me: Instead of buying a new scene by a girl I like I am watching an old one I already bought by her. My spendings since the 35% ticket devaluation are down by 80% or so, really radical at this point, but I am really fed up.

Because what happened is that all of a sudden there was a change and than a few days later there were explanations nobody with no inside PB knowledge could understand. It is a big mess created by PB mainly. And it also turned out that even most studios didnt know! And now every studio is waiting what effects that new conversion rate has on its production financing and only a few studios with rare really big cash reserves or studios producing in cheap places have lowered their ticket prices a bit.

And one more thing about communication: In an alternative version of events we could say that PB made a communication test for studios by these changes: Giorgio Grandi wins this test because he really tries to explain something to porn users - and me I really do appreciate it.
Btw, I forgot to mention Nick Whitehard/NRX who also communicated a bit.


Like studios I sure will wait now and I might spend more on new releases again, but only IF I get the feeling that studios care about customers and not tell me only: If you can afford 35% higher prices, buy the product.
Finally we should maybe also think of the people who can't afford to pay 35% more!

And for Giorgio: I always explained to other users in forum why I think this and that price for a scene is fair, why even a high price can be a really fair price. But dont expect me now not to not feel screwed over by these sudden unheralded changes!

And the-million-dollar-question: If xxx had warned us about 35% ticket devaluation, I would sure have kept my subscription and I would also have re-charged at least once with my 120-ticket option (for 3mt subscribers), but I also would I have started a discussion why a sudden 35% is really needed. I would have suggested a phasing in, 12% more each quartile or so. And would have asked for an explanation users really have a chance to understand.
What communicating studios together with some active users have created here in PB is a community of porn fans ready to support the biz because they understand that porn needs to be financed and because they had the feeling so far they are treated fair. As a successful businessman I would rather not risk this feeling. Instead here in last 15-20 days what has been done is to willingly destroy trust and goodwill.

[dap-addict]

drevokocur, if I got this right - and also what Giorgio Grandi answered me above - than the studios benefit because they get more money after ticket devaluation by 35%. They get more because 1tkt spend by us is worth more converted to $$.
But problem they face is that items sold went down after de facto price increase for customers. And studios have to evaluate new situation first.

Some of the studios just lowered their prices again to pre-devaluation level hoping to sell more items, some did nothing. Some were concerned enough to come here or into other threads to talk to us users (Oscar/Mambo Perv, Giorgio/GIO/GLab/Xfreax, Jack/PAF, gonzo indirect) and some like Angelo Godshack (AGO studio) have done nothing and said nothing. Interesting enough is that in meanwhile closed thread xxx takes AGO as example, maybe suggesting that it was that studio to complain about conversion rate from tickets to $.

This belongs here, actually: Forgot to mention Nick Whitehard/NRX who also communicated a bit.

But whatever I add at the end of the day my trust in BP is pretty destroyed and my goodwill towards most studios producing what I need, i.e. DAP, is also pretty low at this last day of April. Lets see whether May brings a solution starting to re-store both a bit.

[dap-addict]

One small final note: PB support and there especially Petr Kapwn really still works fine. If you destroy also this, than I am done completely.

[DPraved]

What communicating studios together with some active users have created here in PB is a community of porn fans ready to support the biz because they understand that porn needs to be financed and because they had the feeling so far they are treated fair. As a successful businessman I would rather not risk this feeling. Instead here in last 15-20 days what has been done is to willingly destroy trust and goodwill.

This is an excellent point. Before joining PornBox I was a porn pirate, but once I was financially stable I joined this platform and stopped pirating because I wanted to support the models and studios and because I trusted LegalPorno to be the platform where I could keep my porn collection. When the platform starts to act like a thug that trust quickly evaporates, and I'm now even starting to question whether I can trust the platform with my purchased scenes? If I have to start downloading everything I purchase I might as well start pirating instead and that's not what I want to do since I enjoy the convenience of this platform. But if I don't feel I can trust the platform, it's a slippery slope they have put me on.

[poldijk]

so much smart people from both sides (customers and producers/PB) unable to understand each others.... I’m sad by reading this topic (and the blocked one)

I don't want to put oil on fire by talking again about tickets, I wish to talk about business logic

price increase announcement
as a customer of various services, I appreciate, despite the bad news, that the company warns me about price increase.
Interesting comparison of Giorgio with electricity bill increase.
At least, we can choose another provider, unless the increase is general because of the market.
PB content is unique, some talents are exclusively on PB (like Oscar's Brazilian cuties) we cannot "just choose another provider", and some pedagogy would have been welcome.

the reason for the increase
As well as I appreciate announcement, I also like to understand why.
of course, when a big company is increasing their prices whereas they are doing billions of profits, we are easily taking about opacity... or scam!
this is not the case here.
wherever the 35% goes, Producer or PB side, I think everybody is smart enough to understand some legitimate reasons, such as :

- the business is not profitable enough, to make a long-term activity without those 35%. Of course, we are not talking about exaggerated profit, where people want to change their old Ferrari into a brand new Lamborghini, we are talking about the profit that everybody deserves in his activity to have a decent life, and be financally motivated enough to carry on (because nobody wants to hear about PB bankruptcy, you are the boss of adult entertainment ) .
I think everybody can understand that. More profit to secure the business and be able to please us with new content during years.

- Female or Male performers asking more money because of their rising fame (which makes a 10on1 really expensive)
- expensive fees for models accepting extreme stuffs (puke, piss drinking...)
- porn taxes increase in some countries.

when the cinema ticket raised from 10€ to 12€ because they have to invest in new technologies (8K, sound system), I can understand and continue to go, maybe less often, but I still give my money.

I have hand picked over 2000 scenes, that I paid money for, lol.
spent countless hours promoting with gifs that got millions of views on reddit
(...)
Moving on, I still find it hard to believe that, when argubly your most loyal costumer, DAP-Addict,
a guy who spends more time on the forum than probaly watching porn,
I don't know this for a fact but he has claimed to own many scenes that he has yet to watch,
and you know, look at his total posts counter.

Everytime I was critiziing legalporno, he was usually the first guy to shoot me down
and say how wonderful, fair and amazing legalporno was, lol.

And he is the one telling you, hey prices for us, are unfair. thats the sentiment of this thread, and countless others.

How hard to understand this emotion really is?

XXX, Giorgio, i'm convinced you have respect for almost all the people writing here, spending their money in PB
and I'm sure you appreciate the free advertising (such as reddit gifs) or the energy DAP-addict is spending to support PB (OMG! so much posts, he does not have time anymore to watch porn, even...the future scene#4 of Khali? )

It’s never gonna end in an explanation that will satisfy any of us as customers, let alone lead to some sort of solution for those of us that have voiced their concern. This is the road they have chosen. I hope it works out for them, I know it will for me cause I get to keep a whole bunch of money I can now spend elsewhere.

I don't think the producers and platform owners here understand the importance of trust and goodwill. These things take time to build but can be destroyed in an instance. This discussion has reset my trust for PornBox to a pretty low level, and I will adjust my spending accordingly.

Instead of buying a new scene by a girl I like I am watching an old one I already bought by her. My spendings since the 35% ticket devaluation are down by 80% or so, really radical at this point, but I am really fed up.

this is really not the above consequence a business owner could wish, I guess. Less income, less quality, less new girls.... leading into a lake of interest from the members, a nightmare for everybody!

I think it's never too late to rebuilt trust and respect, as long as there is gesture of goodwill from both sides

[avanfurwet]

I think the complaints arise primarily because none of the explanations we've been given actually satisfactorily explain the decision to devalue tickets by 35%.

First we had the "inflation" argument. That didn't survive long.

Then we were told it's to support the studios with a higher payout than they were getting before.

But if the studios wanted a higher price they could just increase their own prices for themselves. They didn't need to wait for Pornbox to tinker with the exchange rates for tickets.

The end result is the same. Customers see the higher prices and will either just stay and pay (Giorgio's prediction), or buy less, or leave and obtain their porn elsewhere by fair means or foul. That is the risk and reward in play for the studios and the platform.

Of course the Pornbox platform and established studios like Grandi have built a strong franchise, and should take good care of it.

Of course customers who choose to pay the already high prices here are not hair-trigger sensitive to price increases.
But IMO customers will react badly if they feel taken advantage of, and a 35% overnight price increase is a big slap in the face.

IMO the new content being made and sold on Pornbox is not unique or irreplaceable. Enterprising producers can make similar competing products and sell them here (or elsewhere) at competitive prices if the current Pornbox studios misjudge their strength and overprice their products.

At the end of the day XXX runs his business as he wishes, and studios set their prices as they wish. The silent majority of customers will do whatever they will do. And, as the old Chinese curse has it, we live in "interesting times".

[xxx]

No one at PornBox told you the conversion rate was changed due to inflation. We said several times it was to match studio prices better.

We also said several times it would be preferable for them to adjust their prices down and just keep things as they were.

[avanfurwet]

Licencing

I think the producers benefit at all times from the licencing deal. I guess the first 14 days will account for a big proportion of lifetime sales. If the scene sells well during the first 14 days then the licence payment is larger.

We don't know whether PB or the producer benefits most from this arrangement. As Starrio said, producers would probably not stay around to continue their partnership with Pornbox if they didn't feel the licence fee was giving them fair value.

Ticket Prices

I didn't say there is zero justification for the increase in ticket prices, but that it hasn't been satisfactorily explained. Some increases may be justified, but 35% in one hit looks greedy. And studios could have increased their own prices without needing Pornbox to adjust the exchange rate.

XXX has said that studios were recommended to reduce their USD prices to balance out the effect of the new exchange rate. I've seen little evidence of this happening yet, after the new exchange rate has already been in effect for nearly a month.

Maybe not all studios really understand what is going on with the devaluation of tickets. Or maybe they do understand, like Giorgio, but choose to continue wth the 35% price increase. Perhaps they are making more money. If so, I think it is the studios who have imposed a 35% price increase, not Pornbox.

[YumYum74]

So the people at PAF must be one of the studios that don’t really understand what’s going on then? They literally say in the Mary Rider thread ‘it does not depend on us’.

Quote post below.

Thanks guys who support the studio soon we will make new scenes I hope prices are fine unfortunately this change of tiket is a bit 'influencing sales and we hope instead that it is solved at best to be able to make even more beautiful scenes, unfortunately now it does not depend on us I hope you appreziate for us it is important to meet your needs
Subscribe to sheer.com/jack23 for more discounts
Thanks PAF STUDIO

[Starrio]

Licencing

I think the producers benefit at all times from the licencing deal. I guess the first 14 days will account for a big proportion of lifetime sales. If the scene sells well during the first 14 days then the licence payment is larger.

We don't know whether PB or the producer benefits most from this arrangement. As Starrio said, producers would probably not stay around to continue their partnership with Pornbox if they didn't feel the licence fee was giving them fair value.

Ticket Prices

I didn't say there is zero justification for the increase in ticket prices, but that it hasn't been satisfactorily explained. Some increases may be justified, but 35% in one hit looks greedy. And studios could have increased their own prices without needing Pornbox to adjust the exchange rate.

XXX has said that studios were recommended to reduce their USD prices to balance out the effect of the new exchange rate. I've seen little evidence of this happening yet, after the new exchange rate has already been in effect for nearly a month.

Maybe not all studios really understand what is going on with the devaluation of tickets. Or maybe they do understand, like Giorgio, but choose to continue wth the 35% price increase. Perhaps they are making more money. If so, I think it is the studios who have imposed a 35% price increase, not Pornbox.

The thing is that costumers like to have the ability to get more for less, and tickets were doing that for costumers, now that the incentive is gone, buying multiple scenes in a bulk through tickets is no longer appealing either, so the one redeemable thing PB had going on is gone now, specially knowing they never have sales and never reduce their prices over time.

If like you said studios would just increase their prices per scene without messing with the value of tickets, that incentive would still be there, but now that incentive is gone, you cannot longer save 30% or 40% in buying scenes with tickets, the whole model is gone.

Studios rising the price would have caused concern and disgust to costumers, but it would have been better that way because then people can directly deal with producers, but the problem is that the actual platform in which we trusted is the one making the changes, and that's why everyone is reacting this way. Whether it benefits studios or not, messing with the platform and the relationship people had with tickets is what's causing all this discontent.

[netzerkaiser]

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=41529&p=634509#p634509

RobyBianchiProduction

Great to see Giorgio & Omar before they made it big-time.

Wonderful porn history!

[dap-addict]

now that incentive is gone, you cannot longer save 30% or 40% in buying scenes with tickets, the whole model is gone.

Somebody in one of these threads trying to figure out what is going on and get some sense into all this mess created by sudden unheralded 35% devaluation of ticket buying power said this all was probably the first step to abolish the ticket system. This is an valid interpretation and it would be interesting to hear a PB management comment on this.