Is it just me or has the porn industry gone downhill?

[drevokocur66]

I agree... Today almost all scenes have extreme acts like pissing, fisting, prolapse... I think it's ok to make this scenes ocasionally, but now ALL the scenes have pissing, and other degrading acts. A lot of people don't like these extreme scenes. We want to watch some "normal" hardcore more frequently.

U need to look up the definition of the word "ALL".

[luotoslo69]

I agree... Today almost all scenes have extreme acts like pissing, fisting, prolapse... I think it's ok to make this scenes ocasionally, but now ALL the scenes have pissing, and other degrading acts. A lot of people don't like these extreme scenes. We want to watch some "normal" hardcore more frequently.

U need to look up the definition of the word "ALL".

almost all... 90% of scenes.

[101mike101]

Those who enjoy can't enjoy Piss movies, and those who enjoy Piss can't find anal attractive.
I like wet movies, but not that interested in anal, i see it as shithole, i am worried about shit sticking in my dick, shit and fart turns me off. Do anal guys like mild shit play or fart smell? Can anyone answer?

Piss movies actually involve piss. The lady gets covered with piss, and you see how guys are pissing on her.

But anal movies aren't shit movies. You don't see any shit on the lady or the guy. And you don't see guys shitting on the lady.

People, who have anal sex, usually make every effort to prevent shit from being a part of it. Which makes comparison of piss movies with anal movies illogical and irrational.

[Hotflash]

it is not you, porn industry is downhill

[RUShersgapersrises]

But just because extreme content is more easily available, doesn't automatically mean every porn consumer will gravitate towards it.
Maybe, maybe...But anymay i think that how its easily available and more ppl watching it, it also has an impact on preferences and popularity these contents a and thus also the shift / development of the trend.

the competence to judge
The point is that the many of best sellers here, for me, are too much skinny (but perform perfect)...maybe im wrong, i dont know.

Today almost all scenes have extreme acts like pissing, fisting, prolapse
And here we go again. The "degrading acts" - I think it accurately describes what I am trying to describe here and elsewhere. Here I agree with 101mike101. And when I go to extremes, when you watch anal sex, its still sex and that can be exciting. But what can be exciting on pissing, roselapses etc...?

And I still forgot one thing. Large number of tattoos. Its not only about size of tattoos. I tolerate even one big tattoo but almost on every part of body...? For example Eden Ivy, is too much or not? I think probably, probably that is...

[GZ6fmhzGRSawpXtn8ZjK]

My feeling is that the economies of the countries that usually provided porn actresses have gotten better so the financial incentive isn't as strong. [spam] may also be playing a factor.

[fredflehoux]

Other then the army of lil bitch who think their own personal preference is what most people want, well just take your head out of your ass. The reason there so much wet scenes is because they sell the most, reason why most scene have 2+ guy for 1 girl, is because most people like slut ready to fuck multiple guy. These things are common because they are mostly wanted. Those who whine about wet hair stfu please. They do extra editing and need twice the server space per scene, not because you're the majority and wet scene just a niche. Piss scenes are driving the site and they edit it back to normal for whining babies like all of you. For me maybe 70% of all positions they do are uninteresting to me, i skip them. So please just stop pretending your taste is the norm.


To add a little about the industry going downhill. The europe/LP side is not declining at all, they're buying the whole porn internet. I think big fetish scene with the hottest babe are just getting more and more expensive as these girls are not dumb, they know they are driving the site with their own beauty doing filthy thing, so they ask for the $ proportional to it. That's why Jolee love' wet scene are 9.5 tickets, while a less sexy babe doing worst stuff, like drinking sperm/cum/spit cocktail, can sell for 6.5 tickets. This is simple supply and demand economics. If you want scene to have steady price, the actresses might have to unionize, which would most likely push the hottest babes to [spam] where they might do almost the same exact pay, but without having to drink piss and getting plowed by massives cocks for 6 hours, while let me tell you 95% of pornstar do not actually enjoy. This is work that pay incredibly well for them, not their passtime.

On the other hand, the American side of porn us really in the gutter. I watch maybe 2-3 scenes a years coming from this side of the Atlantic. I think a lot of porn producer there let their company get managed by to many women, there's been a lot of pornstar there starting to direct scene. I just think women don't really understand how perverse men can really be, they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market. American pornstars are all on [spam], doing boring ass dildoing clips for their thirsty simp fanbase.

[robin_reid]

but without having to drink piss and getting plowed by massives cocks for 6 hours

Just a correction, those scenes don’t take 6 hours, actually are very fast. In 6 hours the studio shoot several scenes, 2-3, with same cameraman.

[Paizal]

On the other hand, the American side of porn us really in the gutter. I watch maybe 2-3 scenes a years coming from this side of the Atlantic. I think a lot of porn producer there let their company get managed by to many women, there's been a lot of pornstar there starting to direct scene. I just think women don't really understand how perverse men can really be, they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market.

Perhaps Europe is also the Florida of America....where people go to die. When normal porn doesn't excite you anymore and you're totally jaded, you go to Europe. It started with DP in every scene, then DAP in every scene, then piss in every scene. There are already the first threads where shit and puke is demanded. Soon there is shit and puke in every scene and at some point they ask for animals.

It's not the quality that makes for the good sales figures. It's the pathological porn addiction that always demands the next kick.

[RUShersgapersrises]

Piss scenes are driving the site ... let me tell you 95% of pornstar do not actually enjoy. This is work that pay incredibly well for them, not their passtime. they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market.
Thats all true, but finally that doesn't mean that new standards isnt a bit weird and that industry gone down...

It's not the quality that makes for the good sales figures. It's the pathological porn addiction that always demands the next kick.

That's what I write about whole time. It's about some domino effect. We spin in a circle...

[fredflehoux]

Piss scenes are driving the site ... let me tell you 95% of pornstar do not actually enjoy. This is work that pay incredibly well for them, not their passtime. they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market.
Thats all true, but finally that doesn't mean that new standards isnt a bit weird and that industry gone down...

It's not the quality that makes for the good sales figures. It's the pathological porn addiction that always demands the next kick.

That's what I write about whole time. It's about some domino effect. We spin in a circle...

Welcome to capitalism, why social media make people hate each others, why black sparkly sugar water is worth hundreds of billions while green tea is not really that popular, why amazon is the most popular company in the world, while their employees shit in bags. Why most people on earth ask for serious action on climate change for the last 20 years and jack shit get done other then banning plastic straws. Good healthy human behavior are not profitable for anyone other than that responsible individual.

I'd be in favor for a porn ban in my country, onlyfan too, heck if i was president i'd be talking about gas engine ban coming in the next 15 years. This is not our culture of freedom though, do whatever you want, if it sell it sell and stfu if you don't like it, we make millions and our consumer are asking for it.

You want these thing to change.. you'll need to find a way to push totalitarism on people in a human way, because they are not choosing it by themselves.

[luotoslo69]

Other then the army of lil bitch who think their own personal preference is what most people want, well just take your head out of your ass. The reason there so much wet scenes is because they sell the most, reason why most scene have 2+ guy for 1 girl, is because most people like slut ready to fuck multiple guy. These things are common because they are mostly wanted. Those who whine about wet hair stfu please. They do extra editing and need twice the server space per scene, not because you're the majority and wet scene just a niche. Piss scenes are driving the site and they edit it back to normal for whining babies like all of you. For me maybe 70% of all positions they do are uninteresting to me, i skip them. So please just stop pretending your taste is the norm.


To add a little about the industry going downhill. The europe/LP side is not declining at all, they're buying the whole porn internet. I think big fetish scene with the hottest babe are just getting more and more expensive as these girls are not dumb, they know they are driving the site with their own beauty doing filthy thing, so they ask for the $ proportional to it. That's why Jolee love' wet scene are 9.5 tickets, while a less sexy babe doing worst stuff, like drinking sperm/cum/spit cocktail, can sell for 6.5 tickets. This is simple supply and demand economics. If you want scene to have steady price, the actresses might have to unionize, which would most likely push the hottest babes to [spam] where they might do almost the same exact pay, but without having to drink piss and getting plowed by massives cocks for 6 hours, while let me tell you 95% of pornstar do not actually enjoy. This is work that pay incredibly well for them, not their passtime.

On the other hand, the American side of porn us really in the gutter. I watch maybe 2-3 scenes a years coming from this side of the Atlantic. I think a lot of porn producer there let their company get managed by to many women, there's been a lot of pornstar there starting to direct scene. I just think women don't really understand how perverse men can really be, they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market. American pornstars are all on [spam], doing boring ass dildoing clips for their thirsty simp fanbase.

ok, to speak like that with so much certainty, maybe you are working in the industry like a director or producer, because you said you know very well what sells most and piss is the norm in the porn industry. So why other big sites aren't making all the scenes with pissing?

[fredflehoux]

Other then the army of lil bitch who think their own personal preference is what most people want, well just take your head out of your ass. The reason there so much wet scenes is because they sell the most, reason why most scene have 2+ guy for 1 girl, is because most people like slut ready to fuck multiple guy. These things are common because they are mostly wanted. Those who whine about wet hair stfu please. They do extra editing and need twice the server space per scene, not because you're the majority and wet scene just a niche. Piss scenes are driving the site and they edit it back to normal for whining babies like all of you. For me maybe 70% of all positions they do are uninteresting to me, i skip them. So please just stop pretending your taste is the norm.


To add a little about the industry going downhill. The europe/LP side is not declining at all, they're buying the whole porn internet. I think big fetish scene with the hottest babe are just getting more and more expensive as these girls are not dumb, they know they are driving the site with their own beauty doing filthy thing, so they ask for the $ proportional to it. That's why Jolee love' wet scene are 9.5 tickets, while a less sexy babe doing worst stuff, like drinking sperm/cum/spit cocktail, can sell for 6.5 tickets. This is simple supply and demand economics. If you want scene to have steady price, the actresses might have to unionize, which would most likely push the hottest babes to [spam] where they might do almost the same exact pay, but without having to drink piss and getting plowed by massives cocks for 6 hours, while let me tell you 95% of pornstar do not actually enjoy. This is work that pay incredibly well for them, not their passtime.

On the other hand, the American side of porn us really in the gutter. I watch maybe 2-3 scenes a years coming from this side of the Atlantic. I think a lot of porn producer there let their company get managed by to many women, there's been a lot of pornstar there starting to direct scene. I just think women don't really understand how perverse men can really be, they can only emulate what they've seen in porn, not make the porn that would be competitive in the current market. American pornstars are all on [spam], doing boring ass dildoing clips for their thirsty simp fanbase.

ok, to speak like that with so much certainty, maybe you are working in the industry like a director or producer, because you said you know very well what sells most and piss is the norm in the porn industry. So why other big sites aren't making all the scenes with pissing?

Some site are starting to do it. Black in white did piss scene and they're all American actors. I guess there's a lot of factor in play, one of which i already stated. American side of porn as a lot of female producer and even feminist one, like Janice Griffith. I don't know how she reconcile her values at the end of the day. But i think it's one of the reason, these female producer are not eager to make their pornstar friends to get pissed on for the consumers.

The argument of the spiraling nature of porn addiction is also true. Those are extreme fetishes that start with just anal and end up as piss scenes, fart cocktail, etc. The market seem to go there more and more and sometime companies struggles to adapt to new trends.

[Paizal]

The market seem to go there more and more and sometime companies struggles to adapt to new trends.

But I think, unlike in the U.S., limits will be reached in Europe at some point. If piss and shit is no longer enough for all the addicts here, what does GG or GONZO do then? Thank God there are various laws....

But US Porn has the advantage, they can jump back and forth. If people have had enough of artporn, it goes back more in the direction of gonzo. When people get tired of it, it goes back a little in another direction.

[Pineapples Studio]

All of this obsession with market trends, specific sex acts, genres of porn etc. completely misses the point and is part of the problem with modern porn.

The most important thing is the feelings a video is able to evoke in the audience. Porn is all about feelings. It’s the visual hyper-representation of lust and it must succeed in making the audience feel lust or it does not really qualify as being pornographic. I think ideally, the director should follow what they are feeling every time they are shooting a scene and hope that their sexuality is shared by a segment of the audience large enough to generate steady profits.

The whole notion of thinking about porn in terms of data and analytics is wrong, IMO, and is the primary driver of the lack of passion and creativity in today’s content.

[Pineapples Studio]

LOL, that was worded oddly and I probably should have proofread it before posting.

But you get my point.

[netzerkaiser]

Mr Ananas, do you really think the days of Le Castel can be relived? TBH, I think not. First of all, he was a performer himself. Secondly, I'm not sure the humour himself, Steve Holmes, Yves Baillat & Franco had, with the corny music is so easy to replicate... I think its important to point out none of these were young men, Yves was close to 50 in late 1990's. Lastly & most importantly was the genuine niavity of the beautiful young Hungarians & Czechs - & I think honestly that this was a time when few of them understood the nature & power of internet posterity, which adds to the charm. Also at the peak of his powers Eastern Europe was financially on its knees, culturally lost & trustful of all things Western. Those days are long gone.

Believe me I wish you well though.

[Pineapples Studio]

No, I do not think the glory days can be relived, but I can find inspiration in them and translate the things I liked about them to align with modern-day sensibilities and consumer expectations.

I am not trying to copy Lecastel; I am inspired by him. There are elements of his old style that I am repeating, most obviously the concept of the “kuckmal” shot, but I am not trying to do it exactly the same way he used to do it.

[dap-addict]

The whole notion of thinking about porn in terms of data and analytics is wrong, IMO, and is the primary driver of the lack of passion and creativity in today’s content.

Even if I do refer to sales data often, I do agree fully with this statement!

[RedBaron]

The whole notion of thinking about porn in terms of data and analytics is wrong, IMO, and is the primary driver of the lack of passion and creativity in today’s content.

Even if I do refer to sales data often, I do agree fully with this statement!

Me too and fake cum is the cherry on the cake of passionless porn.

[TheVulture]

Lastly & most importantly was the genuine niavity of the beautiful young Hungarians & Czechs - & I think honestly that this was a time when few of them understood the nature & power of internet posterity, which adds to the charm. Also at the peak of his powers Eastern Europe was financially on its knees, culturally lost & trustful of all things Western. Those days are long gone.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say here fella. It sounds a bit like you're saying that the porn women of that era were more vulnerable or easy to exploit or some such. I don't personally agree with that and in fact if I were to highlight just one area of porn that has remained unchanged it is really in the large numbers of incredibly uninhibited and beautiful women prepared to get their rocks off in porn and not giving a fuck about any stigma, repercussions etc. You could quite easily transfer the likes of Sandra Romain, Julie Silver, Claudia Rossi etc. from back then with Rebecca Sharon, Brittany Bardot, Tabitha Poison etc. of now in either direction. I don't think they or any other elite kind of porn girl have at any stage been anywhere outside of their comfort zone mentally or physically. They have basically just taken what was available at the time. I basically see the exact same insatiable lust and "punk rock" spirit if you like in both sets of girls.

What has changed is the men who both star in and direct porn. They have completely redefined the terms of engagement for better or worse as per the numerous current discussions on this forum. Where I think there is irony in your comment is that it's actually these same men who have lost their "innocence". Back then the porn directors were quite happy creating a bit of on screen chemistry and filming the resultant lusty action (obviously with a lot of scripting, choreography etc. as well), whereas now everything is much more meticulously fine-tuned to the extent of often being quite sterile. And where the older guys used to revel in simply fucking hard and fast, now most of the guys spend half of their scenes wrestling and otherwise physically dominating the girls. What is that if not really the definition of loss of innocence?

I think more generally it's very easy to point the finger at the girls in porn when things go "wrong" but we all know that it is the men behind the cameras and in charge of the stables who shape the look and feel of the end product and therefore are largely responsible for any successes or failures. Getting the girls and having them deliver is really the easy bit. For the most part, we can always pretty much rely on them. For me it's the blokes that are presently letting us down.

[Paizal]

The whole notion of thinking about porn in terms of data and analytics is wrong, IMO, and is the primary driver of the lack of passion and creativity in today’s content.

But that's exactly what's happening with the studios here. GG himself has said that if the sales figures for the first 2-3 scenes of a new girl are not great, she will no longer be invited. It is data and analysis that ensure that every day there are always the same scenes, with the same girls.

[Pineapples Studio]

Yeah, I realize that, and I’m saying that it’s wrong. It will bring you short-term higher profits at the expense of long-term brand dilution.

[TheVulture]

The other thing is stables going against their principles or creating scenes that have a mixed "all things to all men" kind of vibe to them. I don't see how that can work long-term. It's like when I asked the PAF guy why some of his guys were doing throat-grabbing but not others in 1 of their scenes and he replied that "unfortunately some people like that". That's not brave stuff. It alienated me as someone who didn't like it and probably didn't convince those that do. Without wishing to sound too harsh, they deserve to fail if they're not strong-minded enough to follow their instincts and principles and simply make the kind of porn that they themselves would want to see. If that involves throat-grabbing then fine. But if it doesn't, stick to your guns and leave it out.

[netzerkaiser]

Lastly & most importantly was the genuine niavity of the beautiful young Hungarians & Czechs - & I think honestly that this was a time when few of them understood the nature & power of internet posterity, which adds to the charm. Also at the peak of his powers Eastern Europe was financially on its knees, culturally lost & trustful of all things Western. Those days are long gone.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say here fella. It sounds a bit like you're saying that the porn women of that era were more vulnerable or easy to exploit or some such. I don't personally agree with that and in fact if I were to highlight just one area of porn that has remained unchanged it is really in the large numbers of incredibly uninhibited and beautiful women prepared to get their rocks off in porn and not giving a fuck about any stigma, repercussions etc. You could quite easily transfer the likes of Sandra Romain, Julie Silver, Claudia Rossi etc. from back then with Rebecca Sharon, Brittany Bardot, Tabitha Poison etc. of now in either direction. I don't think they or any other elite kind of porn girl have at any stage been anywhere outside of their comfort zone mentally or physically. They have basically just taken what was available at the time. I basically see the exact same insatiable lust and "punk rock" spirit if you like in both sets of girls.

What has changed is the men who both star in and direct porn. They have completely redefined the terms of engagement for better or worse as per the numerous current discussions on this forum. Where I think there is irony in your comment is that it's actually these same men who have lost their "innocence". Back then the porn directors were quite happy creating a bit of on screen chemistry and filming the resultant lusty action (obviously with a lot of scripting, choreography etc. as well), whereas now everything is much more meticulously fine-tuned to the extent of often being quite sterile. And where the older guys used to revel in simply fucking hard and fast, now most of the guys spend half of their scenes wrestling and otherwise physically dominating the girls. What is that if not really the definition of loss of innocence?

I think more generally it's very easy to point the finger at the girls in porn when things go "wrong" but we all know that it is the men behind the cameras and in charge of the stables who shape the look and feel of the end product and therefore are largely responsible for any successes or failures. Getting the girls and having them deliver is really the easy bit. For the most part, we can always pretty much rely on them. For me it's the blokes that are presently letting us down.

But what I said was simple. From 1995 - 2002 in Hungary, & from 1996 - 2005 in Czech Republic, for every beautiful lady today entering business, there were 100 then. Heck, I went out with a girl in Czech Republic who I didn't realise until I got back to UK had done movies. Secondly, I stand by the statement that a very great many of these ladies thought what they did would basically stay unknown in their home countries, or beyond top shelf magazines. They didn't have any idea of longevity, power, & ubiquity of the internet. The fall off of the quantity of beautiful girls entering industry would be seen more obviously if Russian scene hadn't exploded at same time as Czech / Magyar scene slowed to a trickle.

[TheVulture]

But what I said was simple. From 1995 - 2002 in Hungary, & from 1996 - 2005 in Czech Republic, for every beautiful lady today entering business, there were 100 then. Heck, I went out with a girl in Czech Republic who I didn't realise until I got back to UK had done movies. Secondly, I stand by the statement that a very great many of these ladies thought what they did would basically stay unknown in their home countries, or beyond top shelf magazines. They didn't have any idea of longevity, power, & ubiquity of the internet. The fall off of the quantity of beautiful girls entering industry would be seen more obviously if Russian scene hadn't exploded at same time as Czech / Magyar scene slowed to a trickle.

Well, it's a theory but I don't think we have any proof that the likes of the earlier girls I mentioned wouldn't have done what they did if they knew how the internet would take off. Don't forget we're talking early to mid 2000s here, not the 1980s or whatever. The internet was already pretty well established by then and porn was already gravitating that way. I doubt any girls entering porn at that time were totally unaware of the global reach of the internet.

If we follow your argument through then now that everyone knows the ubiquity and permanence of the internet there would be precious few girls willing to do porn. Yet it seems there are more than ever and constantly redefining the idea of hardcore porn.

I do agree with you on the geographical front though. It's no coincidence that many of the girls entering porn in that era were from former communist states (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, latterly Russia etc.) that had undergone a very quick and radical change both culturally and economically. There would be the combination there of a sort of new-found freedom of expression and also the fact that very many people were suddenly thrust into the free market (and often poverty) without much idea of what to do next. That's a very powerful push-and-pull effect that probably a lot of porn companies capitalised on. But again I don't think that automatically means that those girls were exploited. To some extent they just found themselves in the right place at the right time to satisfy their huge sex drives and also make a lot of money.

It's an interesting discussion and there aren't really any objective facts but again I'm just really uncomfortable with trying to draw clear distinctions between earlier and current porn girls. The only real constants are an obvious love of sex and an uninhibited nature. Money will of course play a part but you can't make any generalisations about porn girls and money in any era. You'll always have a very broad range from those doing it purely for the money to those who genuinely love being in porn and would pretty much do it for free. In that sense porn is no different from any other creative art and never will be.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

The only thing that is killing the porn industry is piracy and free access to unlimited porn.
I for one, am a big supporter of the porn industry and subscribe to many premium porn sites.
I also am a subscriber on AV and regularly top up 120 tickets, in addition to the monthly tickets that I receive.

For many customers here at AV, we want to see quality and certain sex acts. As such, I think the quality of porn on other sites may have gone downhill, but that is certainly not the case here on AV. If anything, I think they have maintained and tried to improve things (even with the difficulties surrounding the pandemic).

[Paizal]

For many customers here at AV, we want to see quality and certain sex acts. As such, I think the quality of porn on other sites may have gone downhill, but that is certainly not the case here on AV. If anything, I think they have maintained and tried to improve things (even with the difficulties surrounding the pandemic).

What is the base of this statement? Just because you're a fan of very skinny girls and full body tattoos? GG in particular is the king of monotony. Every day the same girls with 80-150 scenes under their belts and with the always same show.Just because you drown the girls in pisss now doesn't increase the quality.

[master_pri_2g]

i 100% agree i blame it on [spam] where sexy natural looking girls would come into the industry and remain for 4-5 years. Now they come in do 1-4 scenes get some publicity and make shitty solo content or sell feet pics on [spam]. Its also taken the power away from the directors and production companies who make the professional shoots and make the material you want to see.

[netzerkaiser]

But what I said was simple. From 1995 - 2002 in Hungary, & from 1996 - 2005 in Czech Republic, for every beautiful lady today entering business, there were 100 then. Heck, I went out with a girl in Czech Republic who I didn't realise until I got back to UK had done movies. Secondly, I stand by the statement that a very great many of these ladies thought what they did would basically stay unknown in their home countries, or beyond top shelf magazines. They didn't have any idea of longevity, power, & ubiquity of the internet. The fall off of the quantity of beautiful girls entering industry would be seen more obviously if Russian scene hadn't exploded at same time as Czech / Magyar scene slowed to a trickle.

Well, it's a theory but I don't think we have any proof that the likes of the earlier girls I mentioned wouldn't have done what they did if they knew how the internet would take off. Don't forget we're talking early to mid 2000s here, not the 1980s or whatever. The internet was already pretty well established by then and porn was already gravitating that way. I doubt any girls entering porn at that time were totally unaware of the global reach of the internet.

If we follow your argument through then now that everyone knows the ubiquity and permanence of the internet there would be precious few girls willing to do porn. Yet it seems there are more than ever and constantly redefining the idea of hardcore porn.

I do agree with you on the geographical front though. It's no coincidence that many of the girls entering porn in that era were from former communist states (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, latterly Russia etc.) that had undergone a very quick and radical change both culturally and economically. There would be the combination there of a sort of new-found freedom of expression and also the fact that very many people were suddenly thrust into the free market (and often poverty) without much idea of what to do next. That's a very powerful push-and-pull effect that probably a lot of porn companies capitalised on. But again I don't think that automatically means that those girls were exploited. To some extent they just found themselves in the right place at the right time to satisfy their huge sex drives and also make a lot of money.

It's an interesting discussion and there aren't really any objective facts but again I'm just really uncomfortable with trying to draw clear distinctions between earlier and current porn girls. The only real constants are an obvious love of sex and an uninhibited nature. Money will of course play a part but you can't make any generalisations about porn girls and money in any era. You'll always have a very broad range from those doing it purely for the money to those who genuinely love being in porn and would pretty much do it for free. In that sense porn is no different from any other creative art and never will be.

Going by your logic, & I have great respect for you Brother Vulture... where are the UK babes, the posh Kensington babes, because "they love sex so much"? That's bullshit. Porn is/was driven by poverty, ignorance of internet ubiquity, cultural / societal revolution / exhibitionism etc, the safety valve we have in Europe of social security isn't there in USA hence girls doing stuff in USA that'd they'd never do it if born in Western Europe. I'm right here. No?

[TheVulture]

Going by your logic, & I have great respect for you Brother Vulture... where are the UK babes, the posh Kensington babes, because "they love sex so much"? That's bullshit. Porn is/was driven by poverty, ignorance of internet ubiquity, cultural / societal revolution / exhibitionism etc, the safety valve we have in Europe of social security isn't there in USA hence girls doing stuff in USA that'd they'd never do it if born in Western Europe. I'm right here. No?

Well, there have been quite a few great UK porn girls and there are even a few active with AV/LP.

I'm not really sure we've had a safety valve of social security here since the 1970s (ie pre-Thatcher) either but that's quite another discussion.

I do think the UK is a little bit under-tapped porn wise probably just because we're quite detached from the rest of Europe generally and our attitude towards sex is still a bit backward and rooted in old Victorian ways of thinking. That possibly explains why the few girls that do make it tend to be pretty wild - they probably have a bit extra "fuck you" about them that the Prague, Budapest etc. girls maybe don't.

These are sort of generalisations though. I certainly don't agree that porn is driven by poverty. That's a very depressing outlook. You can't watch Julie Silver in her pomp or Proxy Paige more recently or whoever and say that their performances were driven by a desire to escape the poverty that might otherwise have befallen them but for porn. You just can't. Those are wild sex-mad girls without inhibitions getting their kicks and getting paid for it. There's really nothing more to it than that and very little point in overthinking it.

[fredflehoux]

For many customers here at AV, we want to see quality and certain sex acts. As such, I think the quality of porn on other sites may have gone downhill, but that is certainly not the case here on AV. If anything, I think they have maintained and tried to improve things (even with the difficulties surrounding the pandemic).

What is the base of this statement? Just because you're a fan of very skinny girls and full body tattoos? GG in particular is the king of monotony. Every day the same girls with 80-150 scenes under their belts and with the always same show Just because you drown the girls in pisss now doesn't increase the quality.

There's plenty of thicc girls, more than other paysites. Plenty of girls with or without tattoo. You're picky and think the site should cater to you. You're still here chatting in the forum, so i bet you buy scene anyway and whine that from the 5to15 new scenes the release each day most of them got what you're looking for.

[fredflehoux]

i 100% agree i blame it on [spam] where sexy natural looking girls would come into the industry and remain for 4-5 years. Now they come in do 1-4 scenes get some publicity and make shitty solo content or sell feet pics on [spam]. Its also taken the power away from the directors and production companies who make the professional shoots and make the material you want to see.

Men's self esteem has decayed so much, most boy grow to become simp both incapable of dating real girls and also making high school dropout slut rich for dildoing videos. We're never gonna stop women from getting rich on this market, we should however tell men that being milked by dumb slutty girls and making them rich, isn't something that will ever actually pay for them.

[dap-addict]

Secondly, I stand by the statement that a very great many of these ladies thought what they did would basically stay unknown in their home countries, or beyond top shelf magazines. They didn't have any idea of longevity, power, & ubiquity of the internet.

I do agree with you on the geographical front though. It's no coincidence that many of the girls entering porn in that era were from former communist states (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, latterly Russia etc.) that had undergone a very quick and radical change both culturally and economically. There would be the combination there of a sort of new-found freedom of expression and also the fact that very many people were suddenly thrust into the free market (and often poverty) without much idea of what to do next. That's a very powerful push-and-pull effect that probably a lot of porn companies capitalised on. But again I don't think that automatically means that those girls were exploited. To some extent they just found themselves in the right place at the right time to satisfy their huge sex drives and also make a lot of money.

Agree with both of you!
But money for sure was and is the main factor for most to start with porn.
Another question is why they stay and why they continue doing it...

[sexaddict251]

It's going down...

[dap-addict]

...but than porn has also become a considerably cheaper commodity compared to 2000-05.
I'd guess average scene is 3 times cheaper to buy than 15-20y ago.
While girls get not payed significantly less than than.

[Paizal]

... so i bet you buy scene anyway and whine that from the 5to15 new scenes the release each day most of them got what you're looking for.

No, I bought 2 scenes this year and chat here because I've been involved with LP/AV for a few years and it's become something of a habit. Respectively, the hope remains that one day they set up again more varied.

[Himself]

A lot more variety nowadays and thats a good thing ^^

Its a spiral, gotta ride it to where it leads instead of going full circle.

For me LP has become a shadow of its former self, meanwhile Dredd is destroyng asses: <url removed>
Just wish that guy had access to true anal champs like the ones from LP. Oh well, maybe that day will come.

[MackZatis]

...but than porn has also become a considerably cheaper commodity compared to 2000-05.
I'd guess average scene is 3 times cheaper to buy than 15-20y ago.
While girls get not payed significantly less than than.

You know DAP-A I really don't get you. I've been reading from you for YEARS now that girls get paid too much, or maybe just need to be paid less. As if some sort of studio pitch man with a profit sharing clause. Being produced for LESS is the main argument for them to get paid MORE...

Do you really think that'd be good for you insatiable addiction for double anal only?!?? Like some how there will be even more women willing to put two dicks up their butt? And yet somehow even more as you prefer them; young, skinny & natural looking (no tattoo's).

I could be misunderstanding you though as your English is sometimes rather broken (I realize that it's not your 1st language), but most times is not too broken at all and able to understand without problem.

Speaking of tattoo's, I'm tired of the relative few bitching up a storm about all the tattoo girls. A few things to consider;
1) Look at this line of work, not just porn, but seriously hardcore porn (some might even say "obscene/perverted/deranged", not me, but getting seriously close). Now that specific line of work is going to attract a certain segment of the of the already limited work force to which to choose from.... (normally even more slutty/trashy/adventurous, all of which are more likely to be inked up)
2) Put plain & simple, they are just WAY MORE socially acceptable and not considered taboo anymore. More than most likely will not prevent from obtaining meaningful employment that can support house/family/ect.... Also are way more readily available to the public and are cheaper then ever. Also as fashions go, they are in! Or at least was MAJORLY in fad from 2005-2015 maybe little less now.
3) Many people on these type of forums act so progressive on so many issues, yet when it comes to tattoo's the act as if it is still 1950. You mean to tell me a WOMAN is thinking independently??? And she did WHAT to her own body!!!??
Seriously guys come on now. How about you post naked pictures of yourself from every possible angle and just wait for the "great" comments you'll get.
People are WAY TOO emotionally attached to these models like they have some sort of stake in their carrear some how cuz they've spent time and MAYBE money on them....
Not to mention it THEIR BODY, not yours. Free to do whatever the fuck they like....
All you anti-tattoo people are such snowflakes, just accept it, progress as a human and move on.....

Doesn't make sense to me one bit.

[lovecraft]

It’s downhill because it’s creatively dead. The same acts and scenes are recycled with less passion (to the point of one studio shooting in a lifeless white room) and models shoot essentially the same scene that they have already done 20 times before or are “new” but not even as attractive as 30 others who have done exactly the same scene from the same angles a hundred times. The problem isn’t that some of the (mostly older) scenes aren’t good, it’s just at this point it’s time to change but they haven’t. Extreme isn’t the answer or really even the question. Its what they are shooting isn’t at all sexy and is devoid of passion because it is recycled and redundant at this point.