Taliban take-over Afghanistan

[netzerkaiser]

We are weak in west. I know from work, these boys do their Ramadan. All us Catholics had put on us was fish on Fridays.

Coming to a cinema near you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7q89S2bbYc

I suppose being invaded having nothing to lose gives you nothing to lose.

[Pineapples Studio]

We’ve known for twenty years that this was going to happen. The invasion of Afghanistan was a bad idea from the very start and we never had a chance of doing what we hoped to do over there. The Soviets learned their lesson years before we did, but like fools, we paid no heed to that cautionary tale.

The strength and weakness of the West is irrelevant here. No country could have succeeded in Afghanistan with the impossible goals we set out to achieve.

[Oscar Batty]

I dont remember any war won by the USA and I suspect that it is done intentionally for some reasons I don't want to mention here. What about Joe Biden? Where is he at the moment ?

[Pineapples Studio]

It’s all about the petrodollar, Oscar, which is dying an inevitable death anyway, so it’s all pointless in the end.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Whilst I never personally wish to comment on global or local politics, I do find it astounding at how quickly the Taliban has recaptured the whole country.

The Afghan government and security forces have completely folded within a mere few weeks! As of right now, the entire country has collapsed, the capital Kabul has been taken over and the Afghan president has fled to a nearby country. TRULY SHOCKING. Just how good were the US and UK army at training competent soldiers in Afghanistan?

[netzerkaiser]

One has to begrudgingly admire the indefatigable spirit of the Afgan rebels against invaders, past & present.

[Iddaoeeok]

Whilst I never personally wish to comment on global or local politics, I do find it astounding at how quickly the Taliban has recaptured the whole country.

The Afghan government and security forces have completely folded within a mere few weeks! As of right now, the entire country has collapsed, the capital Kabul has been taken over and the Afghan president has fled to a nearby country. TRULY SHOCKING. Just how good were the US and UK army at training competent soldiers in Afghanistan?

I think the US/UK, or the West to be more accurate, long ago realized the Taliban were eventually going to be back in control of the country. Afghanistan is a basket case and it ended up that way through being used as a political football by the superpowers during the Cold War - not to mention being caught up in the neverending rivalry between Pakistan and India. The Taliban are the most organized and committed group in the country, plus they're armed to the teeth, the question who arned them is one for another day. Truth is I don't think the US/UK have been exactly busting a gut to prevent the rise of the Taliban for a long time. There's a lot of things happening behind the scenes we don't know about, there's been a lot of talking going on between the Taliban and representatives of the Western powers. I reckon fingers are being crossed in Washington and elsewhere that the Taliban are not as bad as they used to be - I think that's what they're banking on. After all, has anyone in any US or UK government ever given a flying fuck about women's rights etc in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf? Anyway, withdrawal or not, I don't expect it'll be too long till the Afghan skies are full of US drones off to blow wedding parties to pieces.

[avanfurwet]

The tragi-comic part was watching the Afghans' idiot puppet "president" address the country on TV about "re-mobilising the army" which had already run away. You could almost hear the sounds of his private jet warming up in the background. The next day the US Sec of State was intoning "this is not Saigon" while the TV screens showed the Chinooks flying over the rooftops ferrying Americans out of town. Looked a lot like Saigon to my old eyes.

It's a real tragedy for the people, especially the women, of Afghanistan, who have tried to make dignified lives in that region. Now they're plunged back into the dark ages ruled by local warlords currently flying the Taliban flag of convenience. Soon the warlords can get back to business as usual, fighting each other and exporting heroin and terrorism to the west, aided and abetted by Pakistan and Iran.

[Iddaoeeok]

One has to begrudgingly admire the indefatigable spirit of the Afgan rebels against invaders, past & present.

Forgive me netzer but this is the sort of romanticized tosh that helped get us in the position in the first place. Who could forget all those Western journalists flown out to Afghanistan to hang with their mujihadeen homies and send back their macho bullshit copy on these fine noble mountain men who resist all trespassers in their ancient lands? Strip out the occasional fanatic and ideologue and the Taliban are just cynical, opportunistic thugs looking to wield power in their own little fiefdoms. As avanfurwet says, they'll be back to paying lip service to Islam while selling heroin to infidels soon enough.

[101mike101]

Whilst I never personally wish to comment on global or local politics, I do find it astounding at how quickly the Taliban has recaptured the whole country.

The Afghan government and security forces have completely folded within a mere few weeks! As of right now, the entire country has collapsed, the capital Kabul has been taken over and the Afghan president has fled to a nearby country. TRULY SHOCKING. Just how good were the US and UK army at training competent soldiers in Afghanistan?

I don't think this has anything to do with training. Training is irrelevant, when the people don't believe in their cause and aren't willing to fight for it.

The Afghan military weren't volunteers, the way many people volunteered in Europe for World War I. They were hired and paid. And their pay was substantially better than they could make doing something else in Afghanistan. So, this was their equivalent of corruption. They didn't believe in what USA and other western countries were telling them. They went into the military to get the money and do the minimum they can to get the pay. And once this racket was over, then they all deserted or joined the Taliban.

People talk about widespread corruption in Afghanistan. And this wasn't just the people in charge doing it. The common people did it too to get the money they needed and wanted.

Perhaps it's hard to see from our point of view. But when outsiders invade your country and try to re-make it in their own image, then collaborating with them is like collaborating with the enemy. Only corrupt people do something like this. And these people desert at the first sign of trouble, no matter how much you train them. Because they are in it for themselves, rather than for someone else.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Whilst I never personally wish to comment on global or local politics, I do find it astounding at how quickly the Taliban has recaptured the whole country.

The Afghan government and security forces have completely folded within a mere few weeks! As of right now, the entire country has collapsed, the capital Kabul has been taken over and the Afghan president has fled to a nearby country. TRULY SHOCKING. Just how good were the US and UK army at training competent soldiers in Afghanistan?

I don't think this has anything to do with training. Training is irrelevant, when the people don't believe in their cause and aren't willing to fight for it.

The Afghan military weren't volunteers, the way many people volunteered in Europe for World War I. They were hired and paid. And their pay was substantially better than they could make doing something else in Afghanistan. So, this was their equivalent of corruption. They didn't believe in what USA and other western countries were telling them. They went into the military to get the money and do the minimum they can to get the pay. And once this racket was over, then they all deserted or joined the Taliban.

People talk about widespread corruption in Afghanistan. And this wasn't just the people in charge doing it. The common people did it too to get the money they needed and wanted.

Perhaps it's hard to see from our point of view. But when outsiders invade your country and try to re-make it in their own image, then collaborating with them is like collaborating with the enemy. Only corrupt people do something like this. And these people desert at the first sign of trouble, no matter how much you train them. Because they are in it for themselves, rather than for someone else.

I just hope that human rights will not be breached. A lot has been done to get basic rights for women in Afghanistan. It will be a terrible tragedy for all the good work to be undone (literally overnight). I also hope that the typical tortures, punishment and violence that the Taliban used to be associated with, shall no longer continue. Let's hope for good things to come about.

[netzerkaiser]

One has to begrudgingly admire the indefatigable spirit of the Afgan rebels against invaders, past & present.

Forgive me netzer but this is the sort of romanticized tosh that helped get us in the position in the first place. Who could forget all those Western journalists flown out to Afghanistan to hang with their mujihadeen homies and send back their macho bullshit copy on these fine noble mountain men who resist all trespassers in their ancient lands? Strip out the occasional fanatic and ideologue and the Taliban are just cynical, opportunistic thugs looking to wield power in their own little fiefdoms. As avanfurwet says, they'll be back to paying lip service to Islam while selling heroin to infidels soon enough.

No offence taken Brother . I know very little of past 20 years but I know a fair bit about Soviet war, & the Soviet troops were terrified of them. BTW, the heroin trade has been going on, probably accelerated during US occupation.

And you superbly bring up subject of drones, I was thinking that myself.

What a horrible mess. Getting murkier by the hour.

[netzerkaiser]

I just can't believe this song was released in 1977.

It simply defies belief (though of course video is relatively recent).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7q89S2bbYc

[netzerkaiser]

Biden is as we speak, making an idiot of himself. Afghan lives matter? Nah, didn't think so.

This is just getting worse & worse.

All the media attention to LGBT & this George 'i can't breathe' guy, & bending the knee blah blah blah just shows how fantasised the MSM is in face of real horrors, like Afganistan today, child slave labour in Bangladesh for Nike etc, Saudis starving Yemen... just what is fake news? Fake news has been going on since print began & before that.

Its all a load of bolllocks.

[Pineapples Studio]

Afghanistan was a mistake. There was never going to be a happy ending to this story. We should never have invaded in the first place, and there was never any realistic scenario where we could have pulled out without leaving a massive power vacuum in our place.

[netzerkaiser]

Afghanistan was a mistake. There was never going to be a happy ending to this story. We should never have invaded in the first place, and there was never any realistic scenario where we could have pulled out without leaving a massive power vacuum in our place.

It was a mistake that had 90% of MSM in UK for one, cheerleading it, just like NATO in Kosovo. They couldn't tell the truth if they tried. So I'm to feel bad over not taking vaccine. Fucking hell.

[Pineapples Studio]

Well, the vaccine debate is a can of worms that I have no desire to open here, but suffice it to say that there is strong evidence that these inoculations are what is referred to as “leaky vaccines”, meaning that they do not prevent against actual infection, but only provide mitigation of symptoms. If that is really the case - and I want to stress right now that I am not a medical professional - then it means that they will do nothing to prevent further mutations of the virus ad infinitum, and you will eventually be left with little choice but to accept the vaccine, or else you will be vulnerable to those mutations and face a very high risk of death.

[netzerkaiser]

Well, the vaccine debate is a can of worms that I have no desire to open here, but suffice it to say that there is strong evidence that these inoculations are what is referred to as “leaky vaccines”, meaning that they do not prevent against actual infection, but only provide mitigation of symptoms. If that is really the case - and I want to stress right now that I am not a medical professional - then it means that they will do nothing to prevent further mutations of the virus ad infinitum, and you will eventually be left with little choice but to accept the vaccine, or else you will be vulnerable to those mutations and face a very high risk of death.

Or your immune system will be so comprimised you ere better off listening to mother nature? Who knows?

Josey Wales?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjrx0TjJN6M

[Pineapples Studio]

The time will come soon, and is already looming just beyond the horizon, when choosing to remain unvaccinated will render you excommunicated from public life.

[netzerkaiser]

The time will come soon, and is already looming just beyond the horizon, when choosing to remain unvaccinated will render you excommunicated from public life.

Brother, I work for one of the BIG BOYS.

Only legal issues stop them mandating right now, in my territory, but they're all corrupt. As you know.

I'm under no illusions.

Its just matter of time & choice made then.

But Thanks.

[Pineapples Studio]

Like I said, it’s a can of worms and I’m not going to open it. We probably agree on more than you think. At the same time, the writing is on the wall. You can’t deny where this is going; you can only choose how you are going to respond to it.

I’ll leave it at that.

[netzerkaiser]

Like I said, it’s a can of worms and I’m not going to open it. We probably agree on more than you think. At the same time, the writing is on the wall. You can’t deny where this is going; you can only choose how you are going to respond to it.

I’ll leave it at that.

You an do no more. I respect that

I'll live. Or try.

[RUShersgapersrises]

Some good posts here..Its basically the same all story OVER and OVER and OVER again.

I dont remember any war won by the USA and I suspect that it is done intentionally for some reasons I don't want to mention here. ?

Yes, cause what it means won = terminated war? That the psychopats over military–industrial complex will lose profits.

The time will come soon, and is already looming just beyond the horizon, when choosing to remain unvaccinated will render you excommunicated from public life.

Its the Covid-Apartheid beyond the horizon. The third wave will come, must come because it is planned... They have already cursed themselves.

[avanfurwet]

Some good posts here..Its basically the same all story OVER and OVER and OVER again.

I dont remember any war won by the USA and I suspect that it is done intentionally for some reasons I don't want to mention here. ?

Americans will claim they won World War 2, although Russians did much of the heavy lifting and most of the dying.
Since then, American "boots on the ground" military interventions seem to have been unsuccessful.
Afghanistan, however, is unwinnable, as Russia discovered last century and the British the century before.

Yes, cause what it means won = terminated war? That the psychopats over military–industrial complex will lose profits.

Don't need a hot war for that. Military-industrial complexes in both USA and Russia did very well out of the last cold war, and the current one.

[Pineapples Studio]

The Russians won WW2. America saved Britain. That’s about it.

[Titus10]

The Russians won WW2. America saved Britain. That’s about it.

Define "won", it was the US that reaped the benefits of the war, in so far as it created and dominated the world order after it till the present, the russians like 10s of millions of people, nearly had their capital invaded, lost numerous cities and had a huge landmass taken from them and raised to the ground.

The US did not have 1 inch of their land invaded, lost relatively few men, funded and controlled the reconstruction process and they built bases all over the globe after their victory, the average American lived a far more prosperous life than than his Russian counterpart.

If was is about dying, then yeah the Russians "won" but if war is about making the enemy die then the US won.

None can even say that the Russians played a singular role in ending nazi germany when it was Stalin who made a deal with Hitler to split Poland between the two.

US military interventions have been far more fruitful than any soviet ones, look at all their bases in South korea, japan, south america, africa and the Middle east, well over 800 bases in total, the Russians have a total of 1 base outside their previous territories.

[Titus10]

I dont remember any war won by the USA and I suspect that it is done intentionally for some reasons I don't want to mention here. What about Joe Biden? Where is he at the moment ?

WW2, the cold war, the gulf war etc... its bases in south korea, japan and germany are testament to that fact.

The US is an empire, and like any empire it is in a state of constant wars with often ill defined objectives and enemies, the romans did the same with the Germanic tribes, or with the Carthaginians etc...

The US "victory" is ongoing, we use american designed computers, on an internet with American "Google" and search engines, "Amazon" servers, the worlds shipping routes are overlooked by the US bases, we speak english on this forum because the US is the worlds hegemon, not just militarily but culturally and economically.

You see American movies, food, clothes, music all over the world, that is its victory, the reason why it fights in ill defined and poorly planned wars is partly because thats what war is like, this is how empires are fed and it's also hubris.

[Pineapples Studio]

The Russians won WW2. America saved Britain. That’s about it.

Define "won", it was the US that reaped the benefits of the war, in so far as it created and dominated the world order after it till the present, the russians like 10s of millions of people, nearly had their capital invaded, lost numerous cities and had a huge landmass taken from them and raised to the ground.

The US did not have 1 inch of their land invaded, lost relatively few men, funded and controlled the reconstruction process and they built bases all over the globe after their victory, the average American lived a far more prosperous life than than his Russian counterpart.

If was is about dying, then yeah the Russians "won" but if war is about making the enemy die then the US won.

None can even say that the Russians played a singular role in ending nazi germany when it was Stalin who made a deal with Hitler to split Poland between the two.

US military interventions have been far more fruitful than any soviet ones, look at all their bases in South korea, japan, south america, africa and the Middle east, well over 800 bases in total, the Russians have a total of 1 base outside their previous territories.

Soviet military pressure on Germany’s territory won the war. This is indisputable. Also, while it’s easy to say that the United States won in hindsight, they were not the only ones who came out of it as a superpower. Russia did too.

[xxxEVOxxx]

Perhaps, there are darker reasons at play here. Myabe, there is a belief that the new regime of the Taliban will form a government that is actually more competent and able than the previous shambles of an Afghan government. I read somewhere that Western powers had in total invested over 1 trillion US dollars for the past 20 years in the war in Afghanistan (mostly from the US's pockets). They have reached a stage, where they felt they could negotiate a better long term deal with the new regime of Taliban government officials than the corrupt, inept and woefully incompetent existing Afghan government. There was a report that the President who fled had 4 car loads of cash stocked up to the brim as he "hastily fled his own country".

[Titus10]

Soviet military pressure on Germany’s territory won the war. This is indisputable. Also, while it’s easy to say that the United States won in hindsight, they were not the only ones who came out of it as a superpower. Russia did too.

The US had total supremacy, in so far as its intellectual capacity (nuclear weapons), industrial might (untouched by war and able to work at full capacity without any logistical issues) and larger population base meant it was going to win.

At the end of the day it was only the soviets who were threatened with annihilation, they are then ones who lost millions of men in Stalingrad largely because of their own ineptitude, they are the ones who struck a deal with HItler only to lose that + 100s of km eastward of poland to a nazi blitzkrieg.

The US could have survived even if the Nazis took over Europe since it is safely nestled between the atlantic and Pacific, could the Soviets have survived if the US didn't open a front against Germany? Considering how badly the soviets were mauled and how many they lost (I think 19,000,000) its certainly not a given that they would win and if they did, what would they rule except ashes?

Pic related btw.

[RUShersgapersrises]

Afghanistan, however, is unwinnable, as Russia discovered last century and the British the century before.
Agree is unwinnable cause is far-reaching, dissected and mountainous and also with sophisticated enemies..
What's also weird is that why was attacked Afghanistan when at 9/11 the planes were piloted by Saudies?

Don't need a hot war for that. Military-industrial complexes in both USA and Russia did very well out of the last cold war, and the current one.
Even the local konflict means profit. And this Military-industrial complex/US Army is only the muscle of this hydra, the head is somewhere else. And financing this whole thing is much easier when you can print (create 1 and 0) how much money you want. This should be imagined even in the case od Cold War.

Titus10
Well written. Only those companies Google, Amazon and many others isnt american. ABSOLUTE isnt american but is *censored*. And as for WW2 is also interestingly that the nazis was financed by the ''right ones'' banks. And after war the Paper Clip operation when criminals were transported in USA and continued their research. This 'stoling brains' continued farther on during Cold War.

At the end, maybe is a bit inappropriately debate on place like this . I'm glad to see people here who just don't slip on the surface.
'People not only don't know what's happening to them, they don't even know that they don't know.' — Noam Chomsky

[Starrio]

I'm usually in total disagreement with many things the Biden administration does, but in this case I actually like his decision of pulling out, we had no businesses there, people can solve their own problems.

I imagine since we are close to the 20th anniversary of 9/11 it was getting beyond ridiculous that 20 years after we were still there.

There was no way to make this happen in a good way, even if we waited years, the result would have been the same, so it was still the right decision. We shouldn't have been there in the first place. Afghanistan was just another excuse to distract from the intentions of going to Iraq eventually, which was also another ridiculous objective.

[netzerkaiser]

Its incredible. I'm reading now on MSM how Taliban are helping Western journalists escape.

Fuck this, I'm gonna put feet up, chew popcorn... & watch Josey Wales

[xxxVIPERxxx]

I'm usually in total disagreement with many things the Biden administration does, but in this case I actually like his decision of pulling out, we had no businesses there, people can solve their own problems.

I imagine since we are close to the 20th anniversary of 9/11 it was getting beyond ridiculous that 20 years after we were still there.

There was no way to make this happen in a good way, even if we waited years, the result would have been the same, so it was still the right decision. We shouldn't have been there in the first place. Afghanistan was just another excuse to distract from the intentions of going to Iraq eventually, which was also another ridiculous objective.

I am not in disagreement with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I just think the planning and execution of it was near shambolic!

[Starrio]

The thing is that even from day one, there were already interviews of the soldiers themselves saying they didn't have any business there, that their biggest hope was that our leaders will change their mind at some point, and just cancel the whole thing.

Sadly it didn't happen for 20 years, but that's what many American soldiers wanted in the first place because they understood right away it was a lost cause, they knew it better than anyone because they were there themselves, they knew what the situation was, and how it didn't have a future.

Many gave up their lives, some lost limbs, many were happy to help the innocent, but it was always very clear it was an unnecessary war, and they just wanted it to be over so people were able to move on with their lives.

The Afghan war purpose was to mediate an excuse to go to Iraq by confusing the people it was all part of the same Bin Laden situation, with weapons of mass destruction, and terrorism.

That goal was accomplished, the government was able to continue what was undone in the Gulf was, and Afghanistan already served its purpose at that point, but because we were there already it was difficult to stop now because programs were already in place and the money was moving.

So they delayed and delayed the situation, and more people got injured for life, others died, just to keep the ridiculous farce going. Delaying it more was still going to produce the exact same results.

[netzerkaiser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7q89S2bbYc

[GapeAppreciator]

It’s all about the petrodollar, Oscar, which is dying an inevitable death anyway, so it’s all pointless in the end.

It's only a matter of time before the federal government destroys the dollar. There are 3 major signs that indicate the United States is an empire in collapse:

1. Massive debasement of the currency.
2. Collapse of morals.
3. Breakdown of the rule of law.

The only thing keeping the union together is the fed gov's control of the printing press. Once the dollar dies then the fed gov will collapse. The states will then assert their sovereignty and become their own countries. This has been my prediction for about 10 years now.

BTW, I'm impressed with the cordial discussion and intelligence displayed in this thread.

[RUShersgapersrises]

Once the dollar dies then the fed gov will collapse. The states will then assert their sovereignty and become their own countries.

Creation currency (including dollar) from the air is controled by banksters and with PRIVATE FED. So it looks like it's going to collapse, but fundamental problem is that these hidden psychopats would rather destroy the Earth in nuclear armageddon just to save their pyramid game.

[Starrio]

There are big crashes once in a while, it's nothing new, they are basically cycles, but they are good to take advantage of many financial possibilities, specially because you can buy low a shit tone of things, and then it goes up again, but only the people that panics and sells everything are the ones that loose, or those having to declare bankruptcy of course.

[Pineapples Studio]

It’s all about the petrodollar, Oscar, which is dying an inevitable death anyway, so it’s all pointless in the end.

It's only a matter of time before the federal government destroys the dollar. There are 3 major signs that indicate the United States is an empire in collapse:

1. Massive debasement of the currency.
2. Collapse of morals.
3. Breakdown of the rule of law.

The only thing keeping the union together is the fed gov's control of the printing press. Once the dollar dies then the fed gov will collapse. The states will then assert their sovereignty and become their own countries. This has been my prediction for about 10 years now.

BTW, I'm impressed with the cordial discussion and intelligence displayed in this thread.

That’s what happens when you switch currency valuation worldwide to the “honor system”, aka the great lie that is “fiat currency”. Every major world currency will suffer this fate sooner or later because they’re backed by nothing but the will of the people. Our money only has value because we all agree that it has value. That is literally the only reason. It is backed by nothing. There is no asset underlying any of it.