Russia-Ukraine

[Jocke]

How serious is the situation?

[YumYum74]

Pretty serious I'd say.

[drevokocur66]

Czar Putin trying to reclaim CCCP glory.

[dap-addict]

Whatever happened on those fronts so far we still have Ukrainian girls traveling to Russia to shoot porn there and earn some good money.
Porn biz isn't inflicted by that political conflict, ppl can still work together on that level.

[bdsmpretty]

Firstly I wound say that this forum really is the wrong place to start a political discussion like this.

There are so many places on the internet you can go for a debate, and I think most people here appreciate that this is a space where those kind of ultra hot topics are left at the door, and we can think about matters of the heart, and elsewhere.

Not that I am apolitical (quite the opposite), and not that I don't have extremely strong views on international affairs with special regard to the thorny subject of toxic US/UK/EU Neoliberal-Military Imperialism (aka NATO, which is essentially the US and a handful of subservient US client-states). Look in that direction and you will find the answer you seek.

What I will say is that while I am certainly no fan of Putin, his oppressive authoritarianism, or his corruption, he has been in power for the last five years and nothing has really happened on the Ukrainian issue.
What has recently changed is that Biden, who you will remember was Obama's vice-President the last time this all kicked off, has been elected POTUS and is essentially picking up where he left off.
He's doing it from behind a fake plastic nose, moustache and glasses, and calling it 'offering NATO support', but it's the same old US Imperialist interference in other country's democracies that he was pushing last time he was in office.

If you want a really thorough, informed, objective and non-partisan overview of the situation from an internationally respected voice on the subject, search for anything by Stephen F Cohen on the subject of Ukraine and US foreign policy. Newspaper interviews, academic articles, or there are lots of his news interviews and lectures up on Youtube.
Cohen is of the strictly objective academic Centre ground, neither approaching the issue from a Left or Right perspective, but weighing up the evidence known to be fact.

And if you are Left leaning (by way of disclosure I am) then check out The Grayzone (Max Blumenthal et al) on its own site, and/or follow its social medias for rolling comment.
Their social medias are especially good for commissioning and pooling-gathering international journalism from independent journalists in the thick of it.

[dap-addict]

Firstly I wound say that this forum really is the wrong place to start a political discussion like this.

Could we agree on this?
And than try to reforge that thread to something in the vain I did above, ie. a porn way exploring biz working together instead of separating according to political or national lines?
Wouldnt that be more fruitful for this whole forum here?

Nikki Hill for instance is from Southern Ukraine, Russian speaking, ok, but not Novorussia background. After she turned 18yo she travelled to a certain metropolis in Russia to shoot her first porn. She got a Russian porn agent who successfully started a EU porn career for her. Than came pandemia which affects both countries and left porngirls without commuting options to EU for porn shots. Nikki Hill moved back and forth from her hometown to Kiev. Meanwhile GIO Prague shootings of Ukrainian MILF shows there are travel options for Ukrainian passport holders again, Rocco shootings in Budapest show there are travel options for Russian passport holders again. What comes next?

[netzerkaiser]

Firstly I wound say that this forum really is the wrong place to start a political discussion like this.

Could we agree on this?
And than try to reforge that thread to something in the vain I did above, ie. a porn way exploring biz working together instead of separating according to political or national lines?
Wouldnt that be more fruitful for this whole forum here?

Nikki Hill for instance is from Southern Ukraine, Russian speaking, ok, but not Novorussia background. After she turned 18yo she travelled to a certain metropolis in Russia to shoot her first porn. She got a Russian porn agent who successfully started a EU porn career for her. Than came pandemia which affects both countries and left porngirls without commuting options to EU for porn shots. Nikki Hill moved back and forth from her hometown to Kiev. Meanwhile GIO Prague shootings of Ukrainian MILF shows there are travel options for Ukrainian passport holders again, Rocco shootings in Budapest show there are travel options for Russian passport holders again. What comes next?

DapAddict, great post & reconcilitary. I didn't want to be first to answer bdsmpretty's well-thought out post in order to not deflect from that: but now its done, 3 points:

1 Russian / Ukrainian language 98% similar / identical - its pretty much south Russia with Cossacks that bore brunt of Tartar / Ottoman incursions for centuries

2 Ukrainian self-identity emerging particularly from Soviet brutality, especially shocking extermintion of 1920's - 1930's that gave rise to another dimension of 'otherness'... Lord Jesus, millions were cynically exterminated... by those filthy NKVD bastards... lt no-one glamourise Lenins evil. Everyone castigates Stalin & Hitler, Lenin was as bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

3 Western betrayal of Glasnost... & the infuriating sneaky impingement upon this unspoken agreement in '89, that west would help but not interfere... nah... west just stood back, let place collapse, then & now provoke & interfere. I was on Ukraine border in '93 so I'm not talking though my ass. I watched trains get lifted in air & put on separate track gauges.

But I agree with you both. Without western intervention, these are two brothers who are not natural enemies.

[dap-addict]

Hey, guys, there is really other forums for this!
Scouts and agencies and girls still coop. Porn shootings are possible in Russia only, not in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls can't fly directly to Russia anymore, they need to go by train or via Belarus. That's the only problem they have.

Poiliticians, military, secret services and historians may have other problems, but they have their forums to discuss all this.

[bdsmpretty]

Without western intervention, these are two brothers who are not natural enemies.

That's the heart of the issue expressed in its most concise form. A great analogy that Russians and Ukrainians would recognize.

And also, sadly, something you will never hear in Western media. Which always presents NATO narratives & mythologies as fact.

But for other forums and other times. Make love not war!

[netzerkaiser]

Without western intervention, these are two brothers who are not natural enemies.

That's the heart of the issue expressed in its most concise form. A great analogy that Russians and Ukrainians would recognize.

And also, sadly, something you will never hear in Western media. Which always presents NATO narratives & mythologies as fact.

But for other forums and other times. Make love not war!

Sincere Thanks Brother.

[Starrio]

It's hard to choose a side when it comes to politics because everyone has good points.

For example right now we have the technology to exterminate poverty and hunger around the world.

We can easily exterminate all poverty and hunger in a matter of months, but we don't do it for political reasons.

At the same time if poverty wasn't a thing would women still be escorts? Would men still serve in the military, police, and other hard jobs like working on the fields?

A lot of people say that we need poverty to sustain a functional society.

Then it comes the problem with welfare where government programs keep people poor and without options to get more economic freedom, and always dependable of their own governments, so governments can take advantage of that dependency by stripping them of certain rights.

We also have the problems with population control where private institutions invest billions of dollars in making sure people follow certain beliefs that benefit certain goals, no matter what.

Social engineering people to adopt beliefs that can easily prevent them from having too many kids because in all honesty it is bad for our planet.

Some of these believes include that killing babies is OK as long as they are still in the womb, that it is OK for the children to pay for the mistakes of their parents. Or that homosexuality should be celebrated, and social distancing is proper for health issues but also for personal space.

If you try to flirt and show sexual intent you can get in trouble which can put you in jail or make you lose your career too.

For these things to work to prevent further population growth everyone needs to be onboard, men and women, so each of them receive the doctrine they require to follow these norms.

If you repeat something over and over again from different outputs, maybe magazines, music, newspapers, newscast, movies, TV shows, TV series, soap operas, etc., eventually people will just think that's the reality.

A lot of money is put into these and you can follow the money and see that is there, behind politicians, and celebrities, many even believe they are doing it because they choose to, and not because they were taught to think like that.

People are very stupid so it is very easy to do these things, and if they try to think, it's easy to just claim they are conspiracies to discard them.

They can also invent outrageous conspiracies to make other conspiracies look bad, so that way by correlation people can say that two very different things are the same thing.

If you know humans, and you give humans power, money, and resources, what is the most likely scenario? That they will try to take advantage of those situations, or that they will try to do the right thing by sacrificing their own agendas? Which one is more likely? Is the conspiracy more likely, or people trying to do good?

It can be both, but if someone has dirt, they can help others with their dirt, and everything compounds.

So when I say people are stupid people are stupid, seriously:

For example it is OK for people to wear swimsuits at the beach, but if they wear lingerie is kind of unacceptable, even if the lingerie may cover them more.

That's how stupid people, they believe everything society repeats to them over and over again.

If society tells them religions are bad they believe it, if society tells them religions are good, they also believe it, they believe everything as long as they see others believing it.

And if they try to be smart and dare to defy social norms you can put them in jail, kill them, give them terminal illness, send them to exile, or outcast them with shaming and public ridicule.

That's humans for you and that's why you see corruption on all the political spectrum, it is not just the left that is corrupt and hypocrite, sometimes the right too, and that's why it's s hard to pick a side.

[netzerkaiser]

It's hard to choose a side when it comes to politics because everyone has good points.

For example right now we have the technology to exterminate poverty and hunger around the world.

We can easily exterminate all poverty and hunger in a matter of months, but we don't do it for political reasons.

At the same time if poverty wasn't a thing would women still be escorts? Would men still serve in the military, police, and other hard jobs like working on the fields?

A lot of people say that we need poverty to sustain a functional society.

Then it comes the problem with welfare where government programs keep people poor and without options to get more economic freedom, and always dependable of their own governments, so governments can take advantage of that dependency by stripping them of certain rights.

We also have the problems with population control where private institutions invest billions of dollars in making sure people follow certain beliefs that benefit certain goals, no matter what.

Social engineering people to adopt beliefs that can easily prevent them from having too many kids because in all honesty it is bad for our planet.

Some of these believes include that killing babies is OK as long as they are still in the womb, that it is OK for the children to pay for the mistakes of their parents. Or that homosexuality should be celebrated, and social distancing is proper for health issues but also for personal space.

If you try to flirt and show sexual intent you can get in trouble which can put you in jail or make you lose your career too.

For these things to work to prevent further population growth everyone needs to be onboard, men and women, so each of them receive the doctrine they require to follow these norms.

If you repeat something over and over again from different outputs, maybe magazines, music, newspapers, newscast, movies, TV shows, TV series, soap operas, etc., eventually people will just think that's the reality.

A lot of money is put into these and you can follow the money and see that is there, behind politicians, and celebrities, many even believe they are doing it because they choose to, and not because they were taught to think like that.

People are very stupid so it is very easy to do these things, and if they try to think, it's easy to just claim they are conspiracies to discard them.

They can also invent outrageous conspiracies to make other conspiracies look bad, so that way by correlation people can say that two very different things are the same thing.

If you know humans, and you give humans power, money, and resources, what is the most likely scenario? That they will try to take advantage of those situations, or that they will try to do the right thing by sacrificing their own agendas? Which one is more likely? Is the conspiracy more likely, or people trying to do good?

It can be both, but if someone has dirt, they can help others with their dirt, and everything compounds.

So when I say people are stupid people are stupid, seriously:

For example it is OK for people to wear swimsuits at the beach, but if they wear lingerie is kind of unacceptable, even if the lingerie may cover them more.

That's how stupid people, they believe everything society repeats to them over and over again.

If society tells them religions are bad they believe it, if society tells them religions are good, they also believe it, they believe everything as long as they see others believing it.

And if they try to be smart and dare to defy social norms you can put them in jail, kill them, give them terminal illness, send them to exile, or outcast them with shaming and public ridicule.

That's humans for you and that's why you see corruption on all the political spectrum, it is not just the left that is corrupt and hypocrite, sometimes the right too, and that's why it's s hard to pick a side.

Starrio, you're 100% right in general, but this is a regional issue, that really has its own dimension, so your rules don't really apply, though you mean well. Its not like Kashmir where you've a religious element... to put it back to OP, Jocke... where does Sweden end & Norway begin? Is a Stockholmer really distant from someone from Bergen or is it just halfway from Gothenburg? The Danes - are they just Skaoneans with even more fucked up accents?

[Starrio]

Starrio, you're 100% right in general, but this is a regional issue, that really has its own dimension, so your rules don't really apply, though you mean well.

Oh yes, I have to clarify I was talking about politics worldwide because people brought up talking about politics here in general.

I wasn't referring to the Ukraine situation because about that I don't know anything about it.

I just know I don't trust my current Government in terms of them be able to understand other people's reality.

Our current Government are categorically our left, but the entire spectrum is one single thing between traditional politicians and outsiders, whether is left or right.

Our current Government are only familiar with their own reality and I really doubt they care about understanding other people's realities, so if they intervene in any way, they are likely to do it blindly without asserting the situation first because traditionally that's what they do.

Our last Government wasn't like that, but the new Government is different, and more traditional in terms of those type of politics, which is ironic because the new Government is traditional, but not conservative, which is a contradiction, but I guess we are the only ones that understand that situation from the inside.

[dap-addict]

Ok, I think, I have to give up.
If you really want to discuss that here, discuss it.
One thing is for sure: The more civilians on both sides suffer the more girls might call up Russian porn agents and travel where porn is shot in Russia.
However, those suffering hardest are the elderly civilians, 70+ yo.

[viewer2]

Although I'm highly interested in politics and geopolitics, I tend to agree that we could or should adapt the discussion...

What about
Russian girls vs. Ukrainian girls?

[dap-addict]

Thats a nice proposition, indeed!
Russia (RUS) (>1200 LP girls, 5 in TOP40): https://pornbox.com/application/model/list

vs.

Ukraine (UKR) (>170 LP girls, 1 in Top 40)
https://pornbox.com/application/model/list

First battle: Alexa Flexy (Russia) vs. Anna Rey (Ukraine) - both are nr. 1 popularity

[dap-addict]

Btw, you have to choose Nationality RUS / Nationality UKR to get the respective LP girl list. And be aware that some Ukrainian girls are billed as Russians and maybe also vice versa. But its sure less than 5%.

[Jocke]

Please DAP addict, if you want to discuss porn there are thousands of threads, or start your own.
This thread is about geopolitical tension. If you are not interested, just stay away!
Sometime you must use your other head too!

[dap-addict]

Also reasonable.
Yep, we can start that russ-ukr. porn war somewhere else.
So, ok. Just let me say that I hope they dont start to fight really again, although they never stopped. And politically, I think Putin wants to test Biden, thats the background of those maneuvers. Anyway, if Minsk I and II agreements are broken again, elderly people and those too poor to move out East or West will suffer most.
Now you have a political statement from me, too!

[DPraved]

If you want a really thorough, informed, objective and non-partisan overview of the situation from an internationally respected voice on the subject, search for anything by Stephen F Cohen on the subject of Ukraine and US foreign policy. Newspaper interviews, academic articles, or there are lots of his news interviews and lectures up on Youtube.
Cohen is of the strictly objective academic Centre ground, neither approaching the issue from a Left or Right perspective, but weighing up the evidence known to be fact.

Thank you for the suggestion, haven't heard him before, but he makes a lot of sense to me.

[Jocke]

Just listened to Cohen.
Yes I believe the US at times put undue pressure on Russia.

I can fully understand the annexation of Crimea but the proxy war with Ukraine is just stupid. The former fascist government had to go and even if it was Russia friendly it was corrupt beyond what Putin could benefit from.

Russia is a kleptocracy and Putin came to power by terror he then blamed on Chechen separatists. Of course the Russian and Ukraine population can be brothers. The fight is about a Dictator protecting and extending his power. This has nothing to do with the people of the countries.

I was mainly wondering if there was a recent escalation. It is bad enough that 13 000 people have been killed. We don't want this to become WW3.

[dap-addict]

We don't want this to become WW3.

Its very long way from that.
Russia wants to prevent Nato from getting closer to their border than it already is in the Baltics. And it wants Ukraine - and every other ex-USSR Republic - to turn into a failed state and thus the Kremlin than is able to show that Russian dominated USSR was better system than what was after 1991.

So now you have me fully here, Jocke.
But I am not sure I'll feel like discussing dirty imperial politics any further tomorrow.

[drevokocur66]

We don't want this to become WW3.

Its very long way from that.
Russia wants to prevent Nato from getting closer to their border than it already is in the Baltics. And it wants Ukraine - and every other ex-USSR Republic - to turn into a failed state and thus the Kremlin than is able to show that Russian dominated USSR was better system than what was after 1991.

So now you have me fully here, Jocke.
But I am not sure I'll feel like discussing dirty imperial politics any further tomorrow.

Putin is a ex KGB rat, it is in his DNA.

[Starrio]

Talking about politics, are you guys in Europe cool if we in U.S. put a chemical dome to reduce climate change?

https://youtu.be/-wwIBUCBrF8

It's actually cheaper than the big oil companies solution of capturing carbon.

I have to say it will suck to no longer see the deep blue sky and having a deep clean star night, but at least Norway, Finland, Sweden, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, etc., will keep their weather.

After seeing the movie Snowpiercer it sounds like it may actually work in lowering the temperature, and they are already testing it.

[netzerkaiser]

To be honest, when I first clicked yesterday, I was hoping it was a ladies vs ladies thread too

[netzerkaiser]

Starrio, you're 100% right in general, but this is a regional issue, that really has its own dimension, so your rules don't really apply, though you mean well.

Oh yes, I have to clarify I was talking about politics worldwide because people brought up talking about politics here in general.

I wasn't referring to the Ukraine situation because about that I don't know anything about it.

I just know I don't trust my current Government in terms of them be able to understand other people's reality.

Our current Government are categorically our left, but the entire spectrum is one single thing between traditional politicians and outsiders, whether is left or right.

If I understand what you're saying, Starrio, & if I do, I agree... that with Trump, for all his flaws, he called a spade a spade. But current govt pure chameleons? Gimme some rope here, because what you say has a nice elusive quality, & as you imply... me for one has never been to your beautiful country.





Our current Government are only familiar with their own reality and I really doubt they care about understanding other people's realities, so if they intervene in any way, they are likely to do it blindly without asserting the situation first because traditionally that's what they do.

Our last Government wasn't like that, but the new Government is different, and more traditional in terms of those type of politics, which is ironic because the new Government is traditional, but not conservative, which is a contradiction, but I guess we are the only ones that understand that situation from the inside.

[netzerkaiser]

Starrio, you're 100% right in general, but this is a regional issue, that really has its own dimension, so your rules don't really apply, though you mean well.

Oh yes, I have to clarify I was talking about politics worldwide because people brought up talking about politics here in general.

I wasn't referring to the Ukraine situation because about that I don't know anything about it.

I just know I don't trust my current Government in terms of them be able to understand other people's reality.

Our current Government are categorically our left, but the entire spectrum is one single thing between traditional politicians and outsiders, whether is left or right.

Our current Government are only familiar with their own reality and I really doubt they care about understanding other people's realities, so if they intervene in any way, they are likely to do it blindly without asserting the situation first because traditionally that's what they do.

Our last Government wasn't like that, but the new Government is different, and more traditional in terms of those type of politics, which is ironic because the new Government is traditional, but not conservative, which is a contradiction, but I guess we are the only ones that understand that situation from the inside.

If I understand what you're saying, Starrio, & if I do, I agree... that with Trump, for all his flaws, he called a spade a spade. But current govt pure chameleons? Gimme some rope here, because what you say has a nice elusive quality, & as you imply... me for one has never been to your beautiful country.

[Jocke]

We don't want this to become WW3.

Its very long way from that.
Russia wants to prevent Nato from getting closer to their border than it already is in the Baltics. And it wants Ukraine - and every other ex-USSR Republic - to turn into a failed state and thus the Kremlin than is able to show that Russian dominated USSR was better system than what was after 1991.

So now you have me fully here, Jocke.
But I am not sure I'll feel like discussing dirty imperial politics any further tomorrow.

It is a difficult equation. If Russia were to leave Ukraine alone NATO would lose interest. NATO do not wish to get closer to Russia. It is better to have some countries in between. On the other hand a successful Ukraine would make Russia look bad and more people would want to leave. It seems to me like there are similarities to Yugoslavia where Serbia wouldn't want Slovenia, Croatia, Kosovo etc to become independent and successful. That is my interpretation, maybe your view is different? The split of Tjeckoslovakia seem to have been a success though?

[Starrio]

If I understand what you're saying, Starrio, & if I do, I agree... that with Trump, for all his flaws, he called a spade a spade. But current govt pure chameleons? Gimme some rope here, because what you say has a nice elusive quality, & as you imply... me for one has never been to your beautiful country.

It's fine right now, but you never know what could happen next. For example I wouldn't want a split. Countries are stronger when they are together, but humans are weak, and once division is incited, they fall for it.

[netzerkaiser]

If I understand what you're saying, Starrio, & if I do, I agree... that with Trump, for all his flaws, he called a spade a spade. But current govt pure chameleons? Gimme some rope here, because what you say has a nice elusive quality, & as you imply... me for one has never been to your beautiful country.

It's fine right now, but you never know what could happen next. For example I wouldn't want a split. Countries are stronger when they are together, but humans are weak, and once division is incited, they fall for it.

Good to hear things are getting a bit better. You're right. Maybe it'll all calm down & again there is an elusive subtlety to your words that echo how polarised & fragile the US political landscape is. Have a great weekend.