We are removing free tickets

[dap-addict]

Look, I fought for my porn, for years, yes, but I basically got it!
And yes, I dont want even half a sec of pussy fucking in 0% pussy billed scenes, but this battle about pure porn perfection, I can't win and I know it. LOL!
I still can rise awareness, though.


But important in all these disuccions here since OP xxx started the thread is this one:

On porn the production cost of a single scene doesnt give a profit equal to 400 time the investment, not even 0.5 times (means that with a production cost of 4000, to have 2000 profit in average is pure utopia for fuck sake.

And I just tell you I do want GIO and other directors here to be able to shoot the porn I need - and for this I am willing to pay, not a fortune, but as much as is needed.

[Sir Noel]

Ok, so let us reduce a full membership from 144 tickets/3mth to 100.

Fine.

If that is what is needed for these scenes to be profitable.

Just don't give me LESS for a reload. Don't charge ME more PER TICKET than someone who puts 1/4 as much business their way as I was.

[TheVulture]

As dap-addict says, you need to view it purely in terms of how much you are prepared to pay for your porn.

If you think the reload rate is reasonable then that should be the end of it. Why bitch that someone else (and yourself!) got a better deal as part of their membership?

If your only objective is for the reload to be cheaper than the membership then you're not only cutting off your nose to spite your face (essentially you're saying you'd be happy if LP just reduced the number of your own membership tickets) but also being very disrespectful to new members, who are obviously the lifeblood of the site. LP have to entice people in and then entice them to stay. The chances are that a lot of them will also reload. You're not subsidising them or anything.

Whilst I understand the general concept of discounts for bulk buying I just don't think it applies here. I like that my membership tickets are slightly better value than my reloads and suspect most others would too. It rewards me for remaining a member and keeps me interested in the site long-term. Only if I think the reloads represent bad value would it be a problem. As things stand I do not.

Is there no sense at all with you that when you reload you are doing so as a result of a glut of product that you like over and above what you might have liked and thus the (fairly nominal) extra payment to LP is deserved by way of reward?

[Sir Noel]

"If you think the reload rate is reasonable then that should be the end of it. Why bitch that someone else (and yourself!) got a better deal as part of their membership?"

What is reasonable is related to what everyone elsee pays, that is why.

If LP gave you a 10% reduction but you then found out they had given every other member a 50% reduction if you are telling me you would not be annoyed with that I do not believe you.
If ypu went in to work and got a 5% pay rise when everyone else got a 10% rise you would want to know why that was, you wouod not simply think "hey I got a 5% rise!"

[dap-addict]

Look, if xxx abolishes tkts altogether than those membership inconsistency problems disappear anyway.

What is important is that the porn we driving old LP members want has to be profitable for all LP studios!
And the problem with that Giorgio outlined pretty well.
if its not profitable anymore than we get flooded by solo, lez and 1on1 non-anal, the cheapest to produce.

[TheVulture]

"If you think the reload rate is reasonable then that should be the end of it. Why bitch that someone else (and yourself!) got a better deal as part of their membership?"

What is reasonable is related to what everyone elsee pays, that is why.

If LP gave you a 10% reduction but you then found out they had given every other member a 50% reduction if you are telling me you would not be annoyed with that I do not believe you.
If ypu went in to work and got a 5% pay rise when everyone else got a 10% rise you would want to know why that was, you wouod not simply think "hey I got a 5% rise!"

I base my membership and reloading on whether I think it is good value or not. It isn't really my concern what other people are getting but of course I would expect parity across the board.

Is there any evidence that LP have given some members bigger discounts than others? If not then ultimately that is a completely pointless comparison.

[Sir Noel]

Look, if xxx abolishes tkts altogether than those membership inconsistency problems disappear anyway.

What is important is that the porn we driving old LP members want has to be profitable for all LP studios!
And the problem with that Giorgio outlined pretty well.
if its not profitable anymore than we get flooded by solo, lez and 1on1 non-anal, the cheapest to produce.

I think we agree on the profitability. I d9n't think there has been amy dispute there or anyone amongst us calling for crazy freebies.

[Sir Noel]

"If you think the reload rate is reasonable then that should be the end of it. Why bitch that someone else (and yourself!) got a better deal as part of their membership?"

What is reasonable is related to what everyone elsee pays, that is why.

If LP gave you a 10% reduction but you then found out they had given every other member a 50% reduction if you are telling me you would not be annoyed with that I do not believe you.
If ypu went in to work and got a 5% pay rise when everyone else got a 10% rise you would want to know why that was, you wouod not simply think "hey I got a 5% rise!"

I base my membership and reloading on whether I think it is good value or not. It isn't really my concern what other people are getting but of course I would expect parity across the board.

Is there any evidence that LP have given some members bigger discounts than others? If not then ultimately that is a completely pointless comparison.

Yes. Members who take out a (in sterling) £61.04 membership get a MUCH better rate than those who take out a £22.84 membership. It is a huge difference of £0.43 per ticket versus £0.54 per ticket. This is a bulk discount, the kind of thing you regard as "disrespectful" to those on a £22.84 membership.
For me, this is what I would expect to see but I know this is something you think is wrong and unfair on those who are only prepared to buy less scenes and do less business with LP.

[dap-addict]

WTF!
Cant we stop that bitching back and hair splitting now - and just pay for our porn as much as its worth to us using the options LP provides for us!?!

[Sir Noel]

On another subject, I'd be interested to know how this $ per video instead of tickets will work. I assume that our bank cards will not be charged every single time we buy a scene (no-one will want 50 entries a month on their bank accounts from a single porn company!) so it seems to me that all that will be changing is that the virtual tickets we have will be called "dollars" and we will still have to load up our accounts with these online "dollars" every few weeks.

Spend $100 to get 100 virtual dollars in your LP account (or some other amount, it is arbitrary really), then spend these virtual dollars on scenes. Reload when you run out.

I don't really see what has changed?

[Giorgio Grandi]

I can explain why this, but I doubt everyone will understand the point.
The production cost includes performers, agency fees, trips, hotels then there are the GENERAL COST (General Cost are anyway a production cost, for me in the range of $30k/month).
General cost (what ever is needed for run the production on monthly base) are not charged on each scene with the same %, otherwise something would be too expensive.
This is why on some scenes the difference on tkt is minimal even is the cost of performer could influence more the tkt price.
I can also add this: when I plan the production, I very rarely think about "to sell" one scene, I think about to sell some scene with the same performer so the General Cost are not spread evenly.

Actually sometimes the higher is the production the less General Cost are charged on the scene. Basically the idea that a scene with high price is "overpriced" is wrong, its exactly the other way around, on cheap scenes in % there are more General Cost charged on the ticket price.

BTW, you gave me this idea when you told me that the price of a movie in the cinema doesnt change according to the production cost (even if in europe it change a little bit). Maybe you dont get why I arrived to the system I just mentioned, but I find it personalty very connected (dont have big gap between price of different scenes)

Also this makes the coke analogy completely unrealistic.

IMO the coke analogy makes absolute sense.

I actually feel similar to SirNoel about the tkt system. I have always felt like this. This is not a new thing for me.

I think it has never really been a reflection of the production cost of a scene.

For instance, Giorgio often produces scenes with one girl and 4 or 5 guys and feature DAP.
BUT, sometimes produces a DAP scene with 7, 10, 15 guys and one girl and the price difference is negligible between the normal scene and the, let's call it "super scene", which also tend to include TP for seemingly no extra charge.

I remember thinking the 10 extra guys on "this" scene was covered with only 0.6 tkt.

If the tkt system is a reflection of the investment, that doesn't make sense IMO.

I also remember certain American director saying that he doesn't establish the price of his scenes, kinda giving away that his production cost was not taken into account when deciding the price of purchase.

IMO, what really happens is that someone sees the girl who is featured in a scene, and takes into account her appeal to the masses and kinda just guesses how much are her fans willing to pay and sets a price, trying to maximize profit.

And ultimately, I don't mind the tkt system all that much, because even on websites that give me all access, I don't watch all the content, just a fraction of it. To me the tkt system is just a huge inconvenience when I have to wait for a monthly recharge and I think it's exploitative because they know we often don't want to wait.

[Sir Noel]

Also this makes the coke analogy completely unrealistic.

the coke analogy was NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with the price of an individual scene or that some scenes cost more than others to produce. The coke analogy was to highlight the discrepancy by which someone who buys more of your scenes is paying disproportionately more.

If I buy TEN Giorgio Grandi 4 tickets scenes AT MOST I should have to pay TEN TIMES the cost of ONE Giorgio Grandi 4 ticket scenes. Do you disagree with that?

My view is that TEN 4 ticket scenes should NEVER cost the customer PER SCENE than just buying ONE such scene.

How does that in ANY way question why some scenes cost 3 tickets, others cost 5 tickets etc?

[Sir Noel]

Giorgio, i need to add this to make my point crystal clear.

You mention your club in Milan where a coke was €6.

Ok, so what i am NOT saying is that all drinks must therefore cost €6 or that you should be selling your drinks for €3. Of course drinks CAN cost different amounts to reflect different costs BUT buying more of the same drinks should never cost more per unit.

What I am saying is this.

Imagine you walk into that Milan club. I am at the bar Giorgio and i am ordering a coke and a vodka and coke. The coke costs €6 and the vodka and coke €12. So I pay €18
You now go to the bar. You are a lot more popular than me so you are buying a round of 10 cokes and 10 vodka and cokes. EXACTLY ten times my order. You would expect to pay 10 x €18 or €180 at the very most (there may be buy two get one free offers).
However, the woman behind the bar charges you €198. Eleven times as much for only ten times as many drinks. Would you think that was normal? Have you ever experienced that anywhere?
I have. It happens here. This is the complaint the coke analogy is about. It is NOT about the price of scenes.

[dap-addict]

I can explain why this, but I doubt everyone will understand the point.
The production cost includes performers, agency fees, trips, hotels then there are the GENERAL COST (General Cost are anyway a production cost, for me in the range of $30k/month).
General cost (what ever is needed for run the production on monthly base) are not charged on each scene with the same %, otherwise something would be too expensive.
This is why on some scenes the difference on tkt is minimal even is the cost of performer could influence more the tkt price. (...)

I think it has never really been a reflection of the production cost of a scene.

For instance, Giorgio often produces scenes with one girl and 4 or 5 guys and feature DAP.
BUT, sometimes produces a DAP scene with 7, 10, 15 guys and one girl and the price difference is negligible between the normal scene and the, let's call it "super scene", which also tend to include TP for seemingly no extra charge.

I remember thinking the 10 extra guys on "this" scene was covered with only 0.6 tkt.

If the tkt system is a reflection of the investment, that doesn't make sense IMO.

Ok, Giorgio, of course you also have to calculate GENERAL COST into your scene ticket price.
And ok, magizi, 5+ stud scenes are getting cheaper per stud in ticket prices, even studs cost more in reality and would ideally transfer to a higher ticket price.
But ticket price has to be in a range the studio can still sell the scene of course.

This all said ticket prices at GIO and for a long time at gonzo, too, reflected fairly well production costs stripped of general costs:
i.e. US models are usually 0,5 to 1tkt more expensive than Eurobabes.
DAP is usually about 1tkt more expensive than DP/DPP only and 1,5-2tkt more expensive than anal only.
3on1 is cheaper than 4+on1, 2 girls are more expensive than 1 girl etc.
It all teaches fans fine that more demanding acts are more expensive and US porn star girl imports have their price.
Don't you agree, Giorgio?

[Giorgio Grandi]

Sir Noel i dont get this.

For instance: almost every sunday I go to restaurant with wife and kids every time the same restaurant, I even take every time the same meal. When I get the bill I dont get discount and now that Im more confident with the waiter i even leave higher tip than before.
Really, I dont get it

[Sir Noel]

Sir Noel i dont get this.

For instance: almost every sunday I go to restaurant with wife and kids every time the same restaurant, I even take every time the same meal. When I get the bill I dont get discount and now that Im more confident with the waiter i even leave higher tip than before.
Really, I dont get it

So you buy the same dish every time? okay.
If you bought four of the same dish would you be happy if they charged you five times as much, or would you say that is unreasonable and you should only have to pay four times as much?

[dap-addict]

For instance: almost every sunday I go to restaurant with wife and kids every time the same restaurant, I even take every time the same meal. When I get the bill I dont get discount and now that Im more confident with the waiter i even leave higher tip than before.

Hits the nail again!
At the same time there are those Coffee places where each time you buy one you get a stamp and with 9 stamps the 10th coffee is for free.

[Sir Noel]

For instance: almost every sunday I go to restaurant with wife and kids every time the same restaurant, I even take every time the same meal. When I get the bill I dont get discount and now that Im more confident with the waiter i even leave higher tip than before.

Hits the nail again!
At the same time there are those Coffee places where each time you buy one you get a stamp and with 9 stamps the 10th coffee is for free.

How has he hit the nail again? Are you after a blow job or something?

Where has he stated he is paying more the more meals he buys?

[Sweep11]

I follow your argument Sir Noel.

But I think the model they have implemented is to discount the first purchase - a kind of introductory offer, that repeats each month - but you then lose that discount for paying more (reloading).
The idea being, from a new customer perspective (IF they had visibility that they were getting a discount) that might it encourage more people to sign up. I'm not sure how clear that discount is to a newbie, so not sure it really works as intended.
But you're completely right then that loyal, higher spending customers are not rewarded further as they should be.

It would be interesting to get rid of the discount on recuring membership and instead discount on reloads. Wonder if that would actually encourage more spending overall from customers who already love the product, instead of trying to entice new customers.

[Sir Noel]

I follow your argument Sir Noel.

It would be interesting to get rid of the discount on recuring membership and instead discount on reloads. Wonder if that would actually encourage more spending overall from customers who already love the product, instead of trying to entice new customers.

It would make a LOT more sense for the membership to be only 120 tickets and the reload 144, hence why every other business in the world does it that way round. BIG incentive to reload then.

As it is, it is no incentive to take a membership because to a non-member 144 tickets they just see as the going rate. it isn't a "discount" it is just the new normal.

[ElJab78]

Slightly changing this topic, is there plans to just give members all their tickets at once (all 120 or 144 tickets) instead of alloting them into monthly amounts? Seems kind of silly to still do this. For us still on the free tickets plan I would like to see the same thing (Give all the 120 free tickets vs making us wait each day for a ticket accruement).

[dap-addict]

This is what is planned:

While I am here let me inform you that we will most likely remove tickets completely in the near future and have real $$$ prices instead and discounts for members etc. We will also simplify the whole process of buying scenes.

[TheVulture]

Yes. Members who take out a (in sterling) £61.04 membership get a MUCH better rate than those who take out a £22.84 membership. It is a huge difference of £0.43 per ticket versus £0.54 per ticket. This is a bulk discount, the kind of thing you regard as "disrespectful" to those on a £22.84 membership.
For me, this is what I would expect to see but I know this is something you think is wrong and unfair on those who are only prepared to buy less scenes and do less business with LP.

Membership rates are better value the more you spend in comparison with each other.

Reloads are better value the more you spend in comparison with each other.

Both exactly as it should be.

Your bone of contention, however, is that membership rates are better value than reloads in comparison with each other. I've explained why I think that is fair but rather than address my points you have just changed the terrain of the argument into something it previously wasn't and on which we both agree.

We're not getting anywhere but ultimately I think we have both made our respective positions and it is for others to decide which system they think is fairer. I would appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent my arguments though, because that is really poor form.

[TheVulture]

This is the pertinent point of your earlier comment:

"If LP gave you a 10% reduction but you then found out they had given every other member a 50% reduction if you are telling me you would not be annoyed with that I do not believe you.
If ypu went in to work and got a 5% pay rise when everyone else got a 10% rise you would want to know why that was, you wouod not simply think "hey I got a 5% rise!""

That in no way compares someone who is spending £60 to someone who is spending £20. It assumes both parties are spending the same and one is getting a bigger discount than the other.

[Sir Noel]

Reloads ARE membershi0s every bit as much as the initial ticket allocation.
What do you think they are a reload of? That is right, your membership.



You asked me if any members are getting a better deal than any others and I showed you they are. They get it for spending more. Something you don't like to see.

[dap-addict]

All this is just nonsense discussion at this point, guys!
You even may speed up xxx decision to turn it all into a flat rate model with a monthly rate for each studio like DDF, EA etc.
Its then the end of LP with their not perfect but pretty fair prices per scene as we have known it.

[blublubeacha]

I don't even read this topic. it's ridiculous it seems porn is a bit in a crisis and then this topic come on, guys

[kidloco2]

Sir Noel i dont get this.

For instance: almost every sunday I go to restaurant with wife and kids every time the same restaurant, I even take every time the same meal. When I get the bill I dont get discount and now that Im more confident with the waiter i even leave higher tip than before.
Really, I dont get it

Let me tell you, your behavior as a customer is 100% what the restaurant wants/expects from the customer of their dreams, but it's the least racional move from your point of view. For some strange reason, mostly the people that have money to spend assume if a service was good, you need to pay more next time to keep it good. That's just plain WRONG! It's a myth. That's overpaying.
Why do you criticize producers that overpay girls, when you are doing the same to your waiter?

Ultimately that's the reason why girls get the same money for soft porn like in hardcore.
The same principle in reverse logic LP and Studios try apply to its customers. First cut on something, then price goes up, features restored and the same on and on and on.

BTW 30k / month is general production cost (excl. models, fees, travel cost) ? You must be kidding me.

[Sir Noel]

I don't even read this topic. it's ridiculous it seems porn is a bit in a crisis and then this topic come on, guys

I don't care if you are not interested in the discussion here, at least it is relevant to this site and about something REAL, unlike your sad obsessive fantasy posts about Katy Perry about things which are never going to happen and have no relevance or interest to anyone other than you.

[blublubeacha]

I just wanted to create the perfect porn scene. that's all .

[drevokocur66]

I finally ran out of tickets and renewed my membership. Please XXX don't make me regret it. Thank you.

[dap-addict]

All new memberships will not give free tkt's anymore.

However currently active memberships will continue to do so, until they expire. So if you like this extra better not let your membership expire!

Looks like a strange thing happening with my LP membership:
Without cancelling it I got thrown out automatically for 1 day and than re-logged in and charged for the next month - but already without free ticket allocation now.
I had decided not to change anything as I preferred free tickets over 20% more premium tickets.
This choice was given by xxx.
How can I get my old status back?
Looks like a big con...

[kidloco2]

Has your membership expired? If so then no free TKTs anymore even if you renew.

[kidloco2]

fuck, Edit button still doesn't work...anyway for me free TKTs are useless since ex premium scenes cost almost as premium and you have to wait (insane) 2 yrs. it's bullshit. Monthly subscription is far better.

BTW I'd like to have an option to buy all scenes from particular actress let's say past 3 months with a great discount.

[dap-addict]

Has your membership expired? If so then no free TKTs anymore even if you renew.

My membership always used to re-new automatically. I never cancelled it for over 2 years. I also denied going to the new scheme of receiving 48tkts every month instead of 40tkts + 1 free ticket per day. Anyway, seems LP kicked me out, just to readmit mit again 3 days later, automatically charging again for a re-newal of my 90days subscription. But this time without free tkts.
Thats beyond all means the fair way, thats just a con.

[dap-addict]

WTF, thanks to Capons intervention I am on my old membership plan again, ie. 40 premium tkts monthly, but dont get my free tkts allocated daily.
Already 9 missing.

[kidloco2]

[dap-addict]

[kidloco2]

sry, wrong post

[xxx]

Has your membership expired? If so then no free TKTs anymore even if you renew.

My membership always used to re-new automatically. I never cancelled it for over 2 years. I also denied going to the new scheme of receiving 48tkts every month instead of 40tkts + 1 free ticket per day. Anyway, seems LP kicked me out, just to readmit mit again 3 days later, automatically charging again for a re-newal of my 90days subscription. But this time without free tkts.
Thats beyond all means the fair way, thats just a con.

You have been with us long enough to know LP is not based on shady billing practices (unlike almost every other porn paysite). We'll take a look at your situation. Most likely a script issue.