Giorgio Grandi wrote:Im not moving to Serbia
Russian models are not interesting, their performance is a lot below average and sales are terrible.
Most likely I’m going to quit production and just release in my studio/s content shot/produced from other producers/directors
hyapet wrote:There was a small collection of girl's who were 11 out of 10s. Your Sasha Paige's. Your Eva Barbie's. Your Lina Shisuta's. Your Kira Viburn's
hyapet wrote:Other shoots always tried new things - whether it was how they told their stories - the stories they did tell - the camera work - or just how the scene proceeded. Eva Barbie's BBC DAP and piss, with almost 40 minutes of relentless DAP action, with the majority carried out by the biggest cocks nonetheless, was an extension of what Giorgio had mostly invented himself.
dap-addict wrote:Hyapet, you seem to be stuck at that 11 out of 10 beauty thing.
You do realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Seems with your you indicate that, but I am not sure, because most of your analyses have these 2 parts - OF and 11 out of 10.
What is missing completely in your analysis is actual porn production realities - and also general economic realities.dap-addict wrote:
Well, let's put it this was dap_addict, 9 times out of 10 when a scene doesn't sell well, it's not because the artistic merits of the shooting, camera work, and lighting weren't to the specific tastes of the gigantic audience that is the whole porn consuming world.
The 1 out of 10 is the wardrobe. But that's because it's how it accentuates the girl's looks.
Studios worldwide aren't shutting down because of porn production realities - or general economic realities. They're shutting down because of talent realities. In that, they can't find the talent that can generate the interest needed to push sales.
Are there some folks out there, and I mean an incredibly small pocket of people, who consume porn based on the production side of things? Certainly. And all the more power to them. But, when it comes to the wider world of porn consumption, people typically tend to care less about how the scene is being shot (unless it's borderline unwatchable) than how they care about who the scene is being shot towards.
Mouth-watering babe? Sales go up. Shriveled up 40+ year old balloon tits and no stomach gal with an orange tan? Sales go down.
It's really that stupid simple.dap-addict wrote:Btw, which scene are you referring to?
M_sicas_Candido wrote:Dear dap-addict, an option to direct some scenes, not all, is Proxy Paige. She proved to be excellent at directing what some considered to be good gangbang scenes. A very famous film directed by her is The Russians are Cumming. I was surprised by the quality of the production. Each scene has its plot making some allusion to the cold war, with the girls representing the USSR. Very well executed DAPs with quality (I dare say) at the same level as Giorgio. For those who have a more critical eye for photography (angles, lighting, colors...), you will notice how fantastic Proxy Paige's work was.
visigoth2020260 wrote:proxy sucks.
Chimpy.677 wrote:I swear I don't understand people who ask for productions with scripts
Gmoney18 wrote:There will still be room for professional-style porn productions in the new landscape. But the market needs to "reset" itself to be more talent-centric, and part of that means the brand-centric studios that have dominated the market for the past 15-20 years need to die.
Many girls are making lots of money on OF. But what will eventually happen is that lots of the female talent will realize that professional and mainstream porn production is a necessary tool for exposure and getting your name out there. Potential producers will also be mindful that there are still plenty of customers who cant afford to pay for subscriptions and custom content from 10 different girls on OF, but are still willing to pay for content on a scene-by-scene basis with models they are fans of.
Under the dominant porn regime of the last 10-20 years, it was the studios and their owners themselves who grew and raked in all the profits while paying the talent flat rates. This model will no longer work in the new porn landscape. The female talent themselves now will need to be included in the "business ownership" side of things, and considered partners in direction and production of scenes. This process will take time, and it is understandable giorgio does not have the energy/desire to participate in it after his decades of success under the old regime.
In summary, there is still room for professional production - the incentives and markets DO still exist for it. It will just require a major shift from studio-based to performer-based ownership of production, and this process will take tike and be messy.
hyapet wrote:To think the master is leaving us is beyond tragic. I'll leave a few words with the hope that it can bring insight to some who've seemingly thought that Giorgio one day decided to stop shooting porn with no incentive - and hopefully, and this is hoping against hope, convince Giorgio to still try and stick in the game a bit longer.
I really don't think that people can fully appreciate just how much OF changed the industry. Someone mentioned that there's no way that the prices tripled - when in reality - I'm surprised they haven't gone up by ten times. The porn market used to be uncontested when it came to the talent that was available to shoot at all the studios. OF suddenly came around and told all of the 10s and 9s, "Hey, you girls could make millions." And then, all the 8s followed them onto the platform as well.
This had a double effect. Suddenly a girl's "worth" had gone up by multiples of a thousand. So, if there would be a Nikki Hill somewhere out there today, she would be busy shooting shitty fully clothed content in a dimly lit messy room with a 720 camera, and there would be not just one, but a league of losers lining up to pay her an exorbitant amount of money for, essentially, nothing. So ... all the 10s and 9s are pretty much ... off the market.
But! It gets ever worse. Because, now, that all that are left are the 8s, 7s, and 6s, (and sometimes a 9, and even a super rare 9.5), that, when they show up, have essentially become the new 10s. Meaning, they charge 10 prices. But! Not even! Because with OF, the girl's there are getting so much more, the girl's now that are at the top of their respective fields can charge even more than the traditional 10s, 9s, and 8s would back in the day.
So, essentially, you're left paying 12, 11, and 10 prices for girl's who are at the most (typically) a 9.
Now - it gets even better. With these new girls, you have to go up against the 11s, 10s, and 9s who migrated to OF, and are essentially sucking in billions of porn dollars that used to go to the traditional studios. Ever wondered why so many of them are shutting down? It's not by accident.
Feel like another kick to the groin? Well - how 'bout this. All the traditional buyers were used to getting serviced 10s and 9s for a much cheaper rate - and now are being asked to pay much more. Want to know why these projects and studios are flopping? Because of all of these factors. Not only this - but - a traditional AV/PB buyer sees someone he would've seen on the site a while back on OF, sees her taking a massive dildo, and figures, what the heck ... go check out her content. Suddenly, after a small while, he's not coming around here as often anymore ...
Now - you'd be correct in thinking this is the absolute end of the World. But ... but!
The content that's been getting released on AV/PB has been fantastic as of late. Like, did anyone see Sweetie Fox getting anal'd yesterday? That girl is someone who's a genuine certified OF beauty.
Or - how 'bout Lina Shisuta on Valter Karo getting a mean DP. I never thought I'd see her here again.
Karina Rose getting her first DAP? What a beauty!
And last, but certainly not least, Giorgio gave us a Monster of QUAP with Rebel Rhyder that was, all things considered, one of her best scenes of all time.
This was all released ... in a single fucking day!
The past days here have been really solid as well. As have the past weeks and months(ish).
So, as much as we might like to Doom 'N' Gloom it here on the forum, the truth is, AV/PB has really upped it's ante over the past few months.
I remember there were days here in the early spring when 75% of the content were greasy, unshaven, fat Mexican MILFS getting ploughed by what looked like a human square mold of lard, in the darkest and poorest lit of places (no doubt on purpose), in the dirtiest of locales.
Compared to that, these days are looking pretty fucking good if I don't mind saying so myself.
So, all things considered, despite the numerous set-backs all the enterprises here may have encountered, they're still coming out with an absolutely solid selection of content and girls.
The next thing I'm going to say, I'm going to be very careful about.
You have to remember - it was everyone here on the forums that were going on and on and on about the Russian girls and how the loss of NRX was so tragic. That was more than true. But, while we definitely have to accountability for this (as I am willing to do), we also have to get the full frame of what was meant and actually said.
I don't intend to take any liberties through which to make us look better - but diving into the reasoning behind what we said - why we said it - and how reality could turn out to be so horribly different for Giorgio would make a lot of sense here.
When we lost NRX - the shock of it - and the immediate fall-out of not getting that kind of porn anymore - created a two-tiered situation. On the one hand - the withdrawal of those girl's led to a longing for any kind of content that was similar to it (and likewise, upset feelings at the content that was like it) - and on the other hand - it made people leave the "not so good" by the way side when overemphasizing the legitimately fantastic.
When people were, like me, literally claiming NRX to be breaking new ground into porn, this was in no small part due to the girls. But! BUT! Not all of them. A girl who showed up at the NRX studio wouldn't immediately become a sensation just because she was there - she wouldn't produce incredible content just because she was there - and her scenes wouldn't be better than other scenes on the AV/PB platform just because she was there. What did happen though, was ...
There was a small collection of girl's who were 11 out of 10s. Your Sasha Paige's. Your Eva Barbie's. Your Lina Shisuta's. Your Kira Viburn's (who went on to work with other studios and produced much amazing content). They carried the platform. But ... not just this ... but every girl had content that was written specifically for and specialized entirely in their strengths.
Remember the first 3-hour porn shoot video? What was that one for. That was for Sasha Paige's BBC DAP breaking. And I mean ... brav-fucking-o!
Other shoots always tried new things - whether it was how they told their stories - the stories they did tell - the camera work - or just how the scene proceeded. Eva Barbie's BBC DAP and piss, with almost 40 minutes of relentless DAP action, with the majority carried out by the biggest cocks nonetheless, was an extension of what Giorgio had mostly invented himself.
But they kept other things in the clear as well. Their scenes were almost always perfectly lit. There was always a ton of space around the performer, so they it didn't feel like everyone was fucking cramped in a hallway trying to figure out who the fuck goes where, when, and why. And the girls, and this was essential, were treated like pieces of meat as they got brutally thrown around like an extra pair of holes, when in reality, they were still incredibly new to both the industry and the act of porn shooting itself (re: defiling innocence).
As a side-note, there's usually (re: usually) nothing more anti-climatic than a girl having a chuckle and treating the whole scene like it's an afternoon out on town. It becomes a mild gym exercise. I don't watch porn to watch a girl laugh at the guys who are fucking her. I watch porn to watch a girl get properly fucked like she's never been fucked before.
Not even funny how much hotter Baby Kxtten's scenes would've been if she just shut her fucking yap and made some sounds and facial expressions like she was actually having trouble taking the cocks. Ever notice how often so many men try to shove their fist into her actual mouth, or cover it up, during a shoot? Not by fucking accident.
Going back to NRX, though, this made the perfect brew of top notch porn that was energetic, exciting, and Goddamn filthy.
So, bringing a few of the lesser known NRX girls wasn't going to, in and of itself, be a game-saving touchdown.
Easy to fucking say that now, seeing as we all made NRX (and the girl's who were there) seem like they were the saviors of porn itself, but ... this clarification does need to be made.
As does the following one. Now - I'm certainly not talking like I know how to produce porn - but I sure as fuck know how to consume it. And after, pretty much, a lifetime of doing so, I think I can spot a few of the things that made the latest GIO scenes ... maybe not particularly the most well received.
I'm just going to list them off in no particular order.
Don't bring the following things into a porn shoot: dark light, dim light, red light, shadows, blinking lights, colored lights, any fucking kind of weird light. Want to know the reason the Amsterdam Red Light district is bathed in red light? Because a lot of the hookers there are old and ugly. When you've got a bright, young, pristine, Caucasian beauty on your hands, you should bring out the bright white crystal clear light and shine it on them, so that every gracious curve gets highlighted, every facial expression gets emphasized, and the audience isn't squinting whilst trying to figure out what they should be focusing on.
Small shooting places are the worst. The old-days of the pure white Legalporno sets were a high-point that, seemingly, isn't desired to be reached for again. I don't want to see girl's banging in fucking hallways. I don't want to see them getting banged in the dressing room. I don't want to see them getting scrunched in any weird place where I'm just uncomfortable fucking looking at it. This also goes for beds. If you're shooting porn on an actual bed - what the fuck are you doing?
Beds are made to relax on. They are also where performers (anyone) lose the power of their feet. The main driving (hard fucking) engine of the male crew. The minute I see someone's going to get fucked on a bed, I know all the energy is going to go right out of the scene. That's why couches are always used. Because guys can still use their feet - and the girl has the mobility to get picked up and tossed around and repositioned quickly.
Next up - dark backgrounds. Sorry to say it, but the only thing that should ever be black in a porno shoot are the actors. Here's the thing about blackness in general - especially with backgrounds - and how it absolutely fucks with the subconscious. Blackness, like nighttime, suggests the unknown. It also suggests the undefined. It suggests mystery. It suggests a whole bunch of fucking shit that the viewer shouldn't be having to deal with when trying to concentrate on the scene at hand. That's why the white locales were the fucking best - it highlighted the girl's whiteness - and then made the black cast completely pop out - so you knew where your eyes were supposed to be - you could focus easily - and that focus gives the scene energy.
Last, but not least, are the scenes where there is more than one girl. ... Why? Why pay four girl's in a scene? All of those group scenes fucking suck. From the Christmas Gonzo ones to ... just fucking all of them. It should almost always be just one girl. Two is permissible - but you really have to know what you're doing - the camera man has to have his absolute A-game - and you can't get into the spot where you wish you were watching one but are actually forced to watch the other. And the camera man almost always fucks up that selection.
Not only does this make no sense from a cost perspective - and complicates things entirely for everyone involved in the shoot (especially the camera-man, but especially the audience) - it often ends "everybody just doing the same thing at the same time." Not always - there are ways to do a scene with two girls really well, but to have the simultaneous spontaneity of a one-girl shoot where the guy's just trust their instinct alongside the carefully planned out choreography and camera-timing needed for a multiple girl shoot, is really fucking difficult to pull off.
But, yeah ...
Don't feel bad about the sales of the aforementioned shoots you did with the Russian girls, Giorgio. You tried. I think you kind of hit the nail on the head - you're getting tired of doing the same thing over and over again. I don't necessarily blame you. You are an artist, after all.
If you want - let me know if you want to see a shoot that would be ... well, different from all porn that's ever been shot before. This would create a new porn category - and it would be a one-off that would create a new benchmark in porn. Easily. The actress I have envisioned for it is Baby Kxtten, so I'll write it and send you the script if you so desire. It'll make all the aforementioned "porn-shoots" have the emotional energy of a quiet day at the gym compared to what I'll cook up. And I'll keep things such as cost in mind as well. The only provision I have for it is that, if you can't get Baby Kxtten for it (and she should be excited to do it once she sees the script), then you allow me the final okay on the actress you choose.
For a work of this caliber, you need the absolute best. I mean ...
If you want to go out - sure - go out. But ... wouldn't it be great to leave with a ...
Bang?
Just look at the script. I mean ...
What do you got to lose, right?
Chimpy.677 wrote:M_sicas_Candido wrote:Dear dap-addict, an option to direct some scenes, not all, is Proxy Paige. She proved to be excellent at directing what some considered to be good gangbang scenes. A very famous film directed by her is The Russians are Cumming. I was surprised by the quality of the production. Each scene has its plot making some allusion to the cold war, with the girls representing the USSR. Very well executed DAPs with quality (I dare say) at the same level as Giorgio. For those who have a more critical eye for photography (angles, lighting, colors...), you will notice how fantastic Proxy Paige's work was.
I swear I don't understand people who ask for productions with scripts, costumes, performances, etc. It is a total waste of money and time, all that money is always better invested in bringing girls who are as beautiful as possible given the budget and also in bringing high-performance male actors. The rest is pure waste of economic resources, they are like the HORRIBLE American porn scenes, where they use costumes and do regrettable performances that absolutely no one cares about and that all they do is increase the costs and therefore the price of the scenes. I don't understand how that can cause anything to anyone.
Porn is simple, bring a young girl who is like a model and two or three high-quality male actors, film the scene in a studio with good lighting and take shots where the penetration can be seen well, that's all.
dap-addict wrote:I'm surprised GIO's move to shoot some of his porn with Russian girls in Serbia hasnt been discussed more here. Not only in terms of logistics it's a very innovative step, cutting import costs and time tremendously due to no visas needed and much cheaper airfare.
If it works other Prague studios will sure fellow.
How did you like the GIO scenes released so far?
ampl wrote:"Russian models are not interesting" and "sales are terrible" is such a funny comment when the top selling scenes have Russian girls. "Performance is below average" means I'm angry they don't want to be fisted by three hands and don't want to puke their guts out while getting pissed on.
Giorgio Grandi wrote:Most likely I’m going to quit production and just release in my studio/s content shot/produced from other producers/directors
Giorgio Grandi wrote:visigoth2020260 wrote:GG is coming back stronger than ever.
Porn is more than sex.
It is not.
I already stopped to schedule any shooting. I have some planned scene I am not going to cancel, but the the die is cast
Giorgio Grandi wrote:Russian models are not interesting, their performance is a lot below average and sales are terrible.
#5 best selling group scene of July 2024
with other models
dap-addict wrote:There's actually a Serbian producer interested in some of these girls from your list. As far as I gather he would shoot 1on1 anal only, which indeed could be balls deep. Problem is to finance travel costs with such cheap fee scenes, but maybe he plans many single anal scenes per girl on his list. Time will tell which agreements are feasible.
dap-addict wrote:Giorgio Grandi wrote:Russian models are not interesting, their performance is a lot below average and sales are terrible.
That contrasts with that 5on4 DAP scene (https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/1648263, GIO2853) apparently selling really good in July.
#5 best selling group scene of July 2024
with other models
Destroyherass wrote:It's a sad day, hearing GG quitting from directing. He has shot some of the my favourite scenes. Especially back in the day. What a waste. The really interesting studios are far in between. Let's see how things go before saying it's over.
dap-addict wrote:Giorgio Grandi wrote:Will new producer(s) take over at least a part of your Prague studio? Or willl you just shut that whole place down?
Someone is probably taking over
kuaheyden513 wrote:GG testosterone levels are probably going down. That's why I think he's quitting. Remember in the first Prague scenes where after the final cumshots of the actors he took his dick out his jeans and cum in the mouth of those amazing girls. The thrill is gone.
kuaheyden513 wrote:GG testosterone levels are probably going down. That's why I think he's quitting. Remember in the first Prague scenes where after the final cumshots of the actors he took his dick out his jeans and cum in the mouth of those amazing girls. The thrill is gone. It's normal but yesterday i watched a trailer of Jules Jordan(52) himself stretching thge pretty asshole of this fresh and delicious black girl Wyllow Ryder. I don't know. It's sad.
kuaheyden513 wrote:Back then it was clearly more about the excitement and the adventure and less about running a business.
But guess what? Things change. We all change. Thats just how time works. And sadly we have so very little of it.
The failure of the Serbian studio may have been the perfect excuse for him to quit and move on. But im sure it would have happened sooner or later anyway.
dap-addict wrote:kuaheyden513 wrote:Back then it was clearly more about the excitement and the adventure and less about running a business.
But guess what? Things change. We all change. Thats just how time works. And sadly we have so very little of it.
The failure of the Serbian studio may have been the perfect excuse for him to quit and move on. But im sure it would have happened sooner or later anyway.
I mean he just moved on, got married and kids, built a house, founded an adult agency with his wife and opened a studio he turned into a porn and dildo factory.
Agency failed early.
Now looks like porn factory failed, probabely due to over-investment against lower sales than planned.
Its sad ofc, but it has nothing to do with sex drive.
After marriage he stopped his actor career, but sometimes he shoot his load still on the girls he booked to give camera and audience some extra. That footage turned rare, but what we know about his sex life and it's not our business.
He sure was tempted a lot BTS!
Giorgio Grandi wrote:Russian models are not interesting, their performance is a lot below average and sales are terrible.
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