Porn actors are not allowed to act like humans?

[marcoB]

I found this interesting "job instruction" that is getting liked and shared by many actresses and is treated as a matter of course:


I was a little shocked, because this reads as if robots have to interact with each other. It reads ice cold and inhumane.

I work in a "normal" job and do not know the porn industry in detail, but in my average company, for example, at work even relationships have arisen that led to a marriage. And it is even common that colleagues even sometimes after work together what goes to eat or drink. just like it happens in normal life. people interact and sometimes even flirt. and the company i work for is conservative.

So porn actors need to be more stuffy than conservative employees? pornstars of all people have to be more uptight than anyone else on the planet? perform robot sex, avoid looking at each other if possible, and goodbye?

so that I am not misunderstood:
of course you have to be professional, of course you shouldn't impose yourself on anyone in a slimy way, of course you have to accept boundaries and so on. But this rigidity, which does not even allow a flirt anywhere and under any circumstances, is simply astonishing.

(By the way, this maybe also explains the many bad scenes in the industry these days. many scenes seem as if robots are interacting with each other. now i also understand why. how should any chemistry develop under such circumstances?)

[jjwhite1985]

I hadn't seen this but it looks like "matter of course". There's nothing shocking in there, it's just baseline professional behavior. I suspect it's largely a response to the way some actresses are treated on set when the cameras aren't rolling - there's often an assumption that since she's there to fuck on camera then she's down to flirt/fuck off camera too. There's nothing wrong with a bit of consensual/reciprocated flirting at work, but this is a dynamic that would build up over time, and you wouldn't flirt or come onto a female colleague without that dynamic/relationship between you, or at least you shouldn't, so the point is you shouldn't on a porn set either - it's a professional environment (or should be).

[marcoB]

but what you say somehow also contradicts what I see:

- Paul Stalker, who has a studio here on LP, for example has posted a photo on his Tw*** with Venom Evil at the beach.
- Woodman posts regularly photos where he is with actors in a restaurant on T***.
- others (also 1-man-producers) also post photos of themselves with the models how they are partying together etc.

so as a customer, when you read and see such different messages, you wonder how this actually works?

[YuriyProneBone]

Well, not all humans are the same, some people are snowflakes, others are fruity, and women have been brainwashed from an early age to feel like a victim to men, so they can always have their guards up.

The purpose of this is actually good, there are too many people in the world, and they don't want people to procreate, so anything that prevents people to form solid relationships is a positive thing for the plan of reducing population, and this is why these agendas are pushed everywhere, including workplaces.

Humans are actually very easy to persuade, so it is not hard to do this.

That said, I do like that guys don't flirt so much nowadays because oftentimes it makes them look needy, and that's a bad look for men.

[jjwhite1985]

but what you say somehow also contradicts what I see:

- Paul Stalker, who has a studio here on LP, for example has posted a photo on his Tw*** with Venom Evil at the beach.
- Woodman posts regularly photos where he is with actors in a restaurant on T***.
- others (also 1-man-producers) also post photos of themselves with the models how they are partying together etc.

so as a customer, when you read and see such different messages, you wonder how this actually works?

In those instances Stalker/Woodman would have that kind of relationship/dynamic with the girls in question and they're happy doing whatever they're doing. But pornstars will often work with people who they haven't met before or don't know well, especially these days with so much 'self-produced' content, so these guidelines are just that - guidelines. If you don't have that relationship with the performer then don't assume it's ok to make moves on her off camera just because she's there to shoot porn - is basically what it's saying.

[asoberspamman]

these boundaries exist because of men who constantly try to blur the lines and be obtuse about what is work and what is personal, especially with new talent who are inexperienced and not well connected. there is nothing unreasonable about anything here, you hold yourself to a high standard because the nature of the work puts people in a very vulnerable position that is regularly exploited by bad actors.

[paul_stalker]

I found this interesting "job instruction" that is getting liked and shared by many actresses and is treated as a matter of course:


I was a little shocked, because this reads as if robots have to interact with each other. It reads ice cold and inhumane

I also have seen this "job instruction" passing by somewhere on Twi**** or something, I guess it was recently related to the "HeavenPOV" call out of abuses and scandal in the U.S.A. , and probably a consequence on some other productions to avoid any possible ambiguity of behavior when the camera is not rolling.

what can i say about all this...? it is clear that everything must be done so that the girls feel comfortable on the film sets, that the actors do not start to annoy the actresses before, during the breaks and after the shooting.

but let's not forget that it's a job based on feeling and the physical attraction between the actors and actresses... if we start banning everything, it's not easy for the actors, mainly the men to also be comfortable and in good condition on set! It's always the problem when there are a handful of idiots who overratted and comitted bas things and a well-meaning minority who want to model their way of banning everything.

Probably the "ideal behavior" resides 50/50 I'm between this... I don't know!

[paul_stalker]

- Paul Stalker, who has a studio here on LP, for example has posted a photo on his Tw*** with Venom Evil at the beach

Yes, that's right! That's a nice exemple indeed. I do that often actually, I really like to go to restaurant or having a drink somewhere after the shoot if
1) the model wants to
2) I feel a good connection with the model and I expect to have a nice conversation of some other topics than just sex and the porn industry
I do because I like to socialize and spending a nice moment besides sex, (even if sometimes, I must confess that I'm glad that the girl declines my offer of going to restaurant or for a coffee and prefers to get back immediately... but that's a very small minority, thanksfully! ), buy I think it's also a matter of politeness and good manner of proposing good food, drinks after exhausting work to the models, on my "producer" point of view, less as actor, and it's not really a "dating" proposal, more a "business" conversation, if I can call it like that.

But let's not forget that I self-produce myself and I can decide of everything I want to do. And to assume the consequences if there would be some, because if for exemple I'd have sex out of camera after some drinks on bar and that the model goes to the police the day after, claiming I did some stuffs she didn't wanted or whatever... because that's exactly what we are talking about and why this production has published this "code of behavior" for the performers, it's only to avoid any "Me too" problem.

In the last 2 years and about 200 models, I probably had consensual sex out of camera maybe... 7-8 times, only...?

And today, I wouldn't do anymore without a camera recording. I would do, but with filming as a "content share" for both performers plaforms.

That's my advice for your guyzz here, if you meet a model in private or do content share: just make sure to film everything from the beginning to the end. Because indeed, that's the reality we live in.

[visigoth2020260]

Mr. Stalker
You should have done this a long time ago.
But it is never too late.

We can criticize your work and drive you insane for the better, and then you'll be sucking all that money.

[YuriyProneBone]

One of the advantages of the porn industry is that because everyone is constantly tested you don't have to worry about condoms so much, and you can bust a nut inside the girls all the time which is always a pleasure for both, so I can see why this is tricky.

Because of that, there is always that opportunity to experience raw sex without remorse, and it is hard to pass on that. Must of use have to use condoms if we are going to fuck a new girl, and it is only with our long term relationships that we can do it bare, so I understand the level of temptation involved.

About the advice on documenting everything, it is indeed necessary, since 2016 more than never, but to be fair this is not new. Even the great rock star from the 50s Chuck Berry would always take nudes with every girl he slept, first of all because he was a star and it was easy to make a demand against him, and the other one is because he was white, and was banging a bunch of white girls that were fans. So it is just like an extra insurance worth doing it. Of course it is better to go beyond the pictures because a video has more weight like Paul said, and those gaps can still be problematic in Soros land.

[backflipman]

I am also getting mixed thoughts about it and setting up these guidelines trying to be as objective as possible, but human interaction is always subjective so you can't really put everything in one drawer.

So from what i understand this post came up after some models had a bad experience with a creator. Like many people can probably relate from their jobs there seems to be a distribution of power. The model feels like she is offered a job and she wants to do the job good to please the creator, to get good feedback, being considered a "good" model and this leading to her getting more work offers. Many can probably relate to this distribution of power in there job as well, when the boss asks you to work extra hours, swap a shift or replace a collegue who is sick or anything like that.
It is more needed that the model is aware of her rights and value to the production. If you don't like the way you are treated you can always set your boundaries or say what you are uncomfortable with, especially if the producer is unaware of that it can help to increase his awareness and learning through the process, rather than be intimidated by some guidelines that just unsettles producers. The model should always be aware that the producer also has high interest to do a good job, as in the end he will have no scene or product, if he behaves in a bad way.

Also this kind of guidelines tend to take away the right for models to make their own decisions and talk for themselves. Maybe a model likes to be complemented or chatting, as it could help her to become more relaxed or take away some tension that is created when meeting new people to work with. Maybe it could boost her self esteem, mood or attitude towards the shooting.
The problem beeing producers abusing their supposed position over power or models not communicating or showing up there boundaries in the shooting process. I believe communication is just the key here, everyone is different and nobody can read your mind, so talk about it. Making a bad experience and speaking about it later is just unsatisfactionary for both sides, especially if it could have been avoided.
From personal experience i can say it is hard to be courageous, to say no to your "boss" i won't do this or that or i don't like this or that. Just be aware that in these kind of situation you also have the power and right to stand up for yourself. If the producer keeps being an asshole you can leave, he will end up with nobody wanting to work with him and you spare yourself bad experiences.
But yeah there are maybe shifts in consciousness or realisations happening just later and that is the way to bring it up. It happens, but luckily it seems to be more an exception than the rule. This is also necessary and everyones right though.

[visigoth2020260]

It's inappropriate for the cameraman to touch the girls because it makes them appear like perverts. I do move away from such scenes when I see the spooky hands because it turns me off.
that and tilting are out of my range, no thank you, sir.

[marcoB]

Because indeed, that's the reality we live in.

thank you for the detailed answer.

of course there are real assholes and real villains. but these days we also have a lot of unnecessary dramas that turn out to be misunderstandings afterwards. sometimes even in court.

i guess one reason for all the misunderstandings of these days are the contradictory messages that many women are sending out. i have been following the tw*** account of an american actress for a while. only as an example, but representative for many:

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in one tweet she said that unlike men, women don't always have the mental strength to say "no" even if there is no physical danger or threat. even if you ask her and she says "everything's fine, go ahead" it could also mean the opposite. the man (actor as well as producer) would have to have a kind of seventh sense and recognize what the woman really wants even without any signs, even if she doesn't know it herself. caution is the order of the day she said.

in another tweet a few weeks later, she got terribly upset about how anti-feminist many men were. that some people believed women weren't as mentally strong as men and needed to be treated differently. that it was sexist to treat women like fragile princesses who didn't know what they wanted.

and in a further tweet, also a few weeks later, she made fun of men who were overcautious and didn't dare to tackle the woman and fuck her properly

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so whatever the man does, one time he may be outed as a bad actor and wimp and the other time as a brute - not because he was one or the other - just because he could not divine the woman's respective mood of the day (sometimes she wants this and sometimes that, all without saying it)

who can still see through it all? who wants to master it all? sounds like hard work.

[t-unit]

1. Some porn performers are probably genuine creepers. 2. Everyone is afraid of getting sued after the metoo stuff , it affected Ron Jeremy. Who knows the truth, probably somewhere in the middle or both. Some girls want a payday and he can also be a creep.

[marcoB]

So, there is a lot of movement in the HeavenPOV case:

HeavenPOV has got his Tw***** back and posted a long thread:
TheHeavenPOV/status/1668460280781893632/

There was huge trouble. A SWAT team ("swatting", there was no danger) came to his house and his car was attacked.

It turns out that he had some kind of relationship (friendship+ or romance-relationship) with one of the main "accusers" (incl. private meetings) and that he was carefully documenting (interviewing before and after the scene, checking boundaries and so on). it looks like they continued to meet long after the alleged abuse was over.

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Another lady who complained and accused him of abuse seems to have regarded the preliminary discussions and the checks on the boundaries as a kind of "office act" and, as with the approval of browser-cookie windows, seems to have simply answered yes to everything. later, however, she seems to have expected that there would be much stricter limits than were discussed and approved by her and somehow thought that the man could and should read her mind because she doesn't want to tell if he is doing wrong:

xcatknightx/status/1669111819959500801/

You are not my friend and it is not my responsibility to educate you or point out what you’re doing wrong so I can understand your surprise. I finished the scene, did your bureaucracy after video and left to recover from a draining scene

... not an issue that gets solved with paperwork, that’s only a warranty for you not to get backlash because processing what happens during an intense rough encounter

A female BDSM director created a topic about this and why it really disturbs her:

Sabien_DeMonia/status/1669162776911028224/

Yes it’s not your responsibility to teach anyone “their job” but you are also responsible for your part : research on person you plan to work with, their style of work and clear communication on set [...] Inter and outer interview was created specifically to make sure everyone are safe and sound. Ppl don’t read minds !!!

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i noticed that too: up until the point where one person started "cancelling" him, most of the other performers now complaining retweeted him constantly, created little clips or even praised him:

GrandCherokkee/status/1668999565947830272/

most of the girls saying all this stuff about heavenpov are ones I saw retweeting and posting trailers and little clips from there “assault” scene….. like all this is mad confusing truly.

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And well:

ZihnaNova/status/1668494880757170178/

Stfu you are a “male sex worker”
Even if you did nothing wrong, you are unimportant and a man trying to profit off SW which I find disgusting and you deserve your life ruined just for that. You don’t matter.

some don't even care about guilt or innocence anymore, being "unimportant" or being a man in the biz is enough to get your life ruined.

[marcoB]

zoeyuso/status/1669963836722491392/

It’s alright because I’m taking Blair to court for saying that I raped her. 100% I’m taking her to fucking court. Rape is fucking rape and there is no fucking nuance when you claim someone fucking raped you.

Wow, the industry (at least in the US) is really going crazy. now even women accuse themselves of rape because of all kinds of things.