stewpidaz wrote:I'm not necessarily arguing one way or the other about stopping buying Russian porn, if you feel you should, do that. But I'm so sick of seeing this argument of "victimizing performers for being Russian". That's like saying sanctions against Russia are victimizing producers of goods because they are from Russia. That's not the intention of sanctions (It is a secondary consequence, sure), the intention is to deter aggressive actions or wars towards other countries. Just because you all fail to see the bigger picture doesn't mean it is a case of "hysteria" (as bdsm said elsewhere) to not support Russian products. All the arguments about what NATO has done to other countries is pure whataboutism so I'm not going to spend much time on that.
"1. There is *no chance at all* that making ordinary Russians suffer will change anything. Literally none.
2. But if you really believe this kind of behaviour (making ordinary citizens suffer for the actions of their government) achieves something, remind the forum what actions you took against the ordinary people of those US/NATO governments that participated in their long-running series of illegal invasions, wars, drone attacks, tortures, coups, regime changes, etc over the past 20 years?
It's a safe bet you did nothing.
This doesn't hurt his point, it helps it. We as ordinary citizens of the US felt no/minimum consequences or effects of the Iraq/Afghanistan war. Russians are being arrested in protests by the thousands currently and you're saying there is no chance of them doing anything? Sorry bdsm, but your points are all really weak and if anything it is convincing me that we need to boycott Russian porn when I didn't initially think so
"the intention is to deter aggressive actions or wars towards other countries."
Coming from a US citizen, this is sick comedy. And you have the temerity to acccuse me of not seeing the bigger picture?
"All the arguments about what NATO has done to other countries is pure whataboutism so I'm not going to spend much time on that."
It's not 'whataboutery' in the context if me calling you a hypocrite. Which is what I am doing.
To hold others (and other countries) to a moral standard which you (and your country) does not oberve yourself, is the textbook definition of hypocrisy. Look it up.
That's why...
"I'm so sick of seeing this argument of "victimizing performers for being Russian". That's like saying sanctions against Russia are victimizing producers of goods because they are from Russia."
... literally is 'sanctions against Russia victimizing producers of good because they are from Russia'.
Because when you boycott Russian goods producers to make a moral anti-war point, but you don't boycott US goods producers to make that same an anti-war point, you are - ultimately - only boycotting Russian good producers on the basis of them being Russian (persecution, was the word you used).
stewpidaz wrote:Not supporting or buying Russian products is not a matter of placing blame on the producers but rather it is about not wanting to indirectly support Russia's war efforts. We are all hypocrites and pointing out where other people may have acted hypocritically doesn't do anything to help deliberate between what is right and wrong in the present moment. If someone acknowledges that factory farming is unethical and inefficient in terms of food production and environmental impact and they limit their meat intake, but don't eliminate it entirely do you berate them for being a hypocrite or do you applaud them for making an effort to move closer to what is ethical and reducing their environmental impact?
"If someone acknowledges that factory farming is unethical and inefficient in terms of food production and environmental impact and they limit their meat intake, but don't eliminate it entirely do you berate them for being a hypocrite".
If they limit their meat intake from Russian producers to make that point, but don't limit their meat intake from US producers, I would happily berate them for being a hypocrite, for the glaringly obvious reason that they would be.
It's telling that every argument you present, or "its as if..." metaphor you formulate, leads to the same conclusion: Hypocrisy.
That Russia must live up to a different (higher) moral standard than that of your own country (the US), which you allow to oberserve a far lower one.
Finally...
"Sorry bdsm, but your points are all really weak and if anything it is convincing me that we need to boycott Russian porn when I didn't initially think so."
Perhaps that is because recognising your hypocrisy, and taking steps to address it, would require a higher level of self-awareness of you (not to mention sincerity) than you currently possess.
