So which is the real reason of LP/AV is dying?

[Chimpy.677]

I've already said the reasons a million times, these are the 3 main reasons:

1) The site has become a site where the only thing that matters is piss, vomit and prolapses. Women and sex don't matter, we can see this all the time, where if a new scene comes out and it doesn't have piss, vomit and prolapses people complain about it.

2) The strange taste that the users of the site have: they always prefer mature and not so pretty women to young and beautiful girls. It's like they have a broken sense of good taste.

3) They ask for a million times for scenes of the same model doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's an incredible thing, it seems that they don't get tired of seeing the same thing constantly.

So, you think the site is dying because it does what users want?
Strange point...
By the way, I share your tastes (don't like piss, nor vomit, I prefer young girls and I never buy more than a couple of scenes with the same actress.
Still, a site will die if they don't follow the wishes of average user, not if it does.
Your points (even if I share them) are nonsense.

I understand that it sounds strange that "customers ruined the site", but it is exactly as I say and I can explain it to you like this:

At first when AV brought in new girls who were young and beautiful, the site did very well, it had good sales and became known worldwide for the quality of its scenes, at that time it was a classic hardcore porn style.
Little by little it changed because some customers began to ask for niche scenes, that is, they began to ask for urine in the scenes first, then prolapses and finally vomiting, this over time became a normality, so much so that practically all the scenes have that type of content.
This caused the customers who bought at the beginning to leave and only the customers who buy the niche scenes remained, that is, the scenes of urine, prolapses and vomiting. When this happened, it also caused the arrival of new, young and beautiful girls to practically stop and this happened for several reasons: 1) The scenes are more expensive because you have to pay more to the female models and the male models. 2) There are very few new, young and beautiful girls willing to do that. 3) The people who consume these scenes here, do not stop buying the same thing over and over again, that is why we have, for example, 1000 scenes of Anna De Ville or Rebel Rhyder doing the same thing always, and it is obvious, why are you going to try if you can sell doing the same thing over and over again.

So, in the end only the niche clients remained, this means that the studios cornered themselves, because now they only have a very small part of the market, which are those niche scenes, before they controlled the entire hardcore porn market in the world. This is obviously reflected in the fall in profits, and if profits fall, investments fall, and if investments fall, the scenes get worse and worse, and if the scenes get worse, no one buys, and if no one buys, the studios close, which is where we end up now...

[bake0213]

I've already said the reasons a million times, these are the 3 main reasons:

1) The site has become a site where the only thing that matters is piss, vomit and prolapses. Women and sex don't matter, we can see this all the time, where if a new scene comes out and it doesn't have piss, vomit and prolapses people complain about it.

2) The strange taste that the users of the site have: they always prefer mature and not so pretty women to young and beautiful girls. It's like they have a broken sense of good taste.

3) They ask for a million times for scenes of the same model doing the same thing over and over and over again. It's an incredible thing, it seems that they don't get tired of seeing the same thing constantly.

So, you think the site is dying because it does what users want?
Strange point...
By the way, I share your tastes (don't like piss, nor vomit, I prefer young girls and I never buy more than a couple of scenes with the same actress.
Still, a site will die if they don't follow the wishes of average user, not if it does.
Your points (even if I share them) are nonsense.

I understand that it sounds strange that "customers ruined the site", but it is exactly as I say and I can explain it to you like this:

At first when AV brought in new girls who were young and beautiful, the site did very well, it had good sales and became known worldwide for the quality of its scenes, at that time it was a classic hardcore porn style.
Little by little it changed because some customers began to ask for niche scenes, that is, they began to ask for urine in the scenes first, then prolapses and finally vomiting, this over time became a normality, so much so that practically all the scenes have that type of content.
This caused the customers who bought at the beginning to leave and only the customers who buy the niche scenes remained, that is, the scenes of urine, prolapses and vomiting. When this happened, it also caused the arrival of new, young and beautiful girls to practically stop and this happened for several reasons: 1) The scenes are more expensive because you have to pay more to the female models and the male models. 2) There are very few new, young and beautiful girls willing to do that. 3) The people who consume these scenes here, do not stop buying the same thing over and over again, that is why we have, for example, 1000 scenes of Anna De Ville or Rebel Rhyder doing the same thing always, and it is obvious, why are you going to try if you can sell doing the same thing over and over again.

So, in the end only the niche clients remained, this means that the studios cornered themselves, because now they only have a very small part of the market, which are those niche scenes, before they controlled the entire hardcore porn market in the world. This is obviously reflected in the fall in profits, and if profits fall, investments fall, and if investments fall, the scenes get worse and worse, and if the scenes get worse, no one buys, and if no one buys, the studios close, which is where we end up now...

Finally someone who speaks some sense. I do think that this site is still profitable though and XXX has stated that recently - it's just the good studios that can't make it. The model pool shrinks, the customer pool shrinks as we spend our money elsewhere. And yet, we'll still have the DAP addicts of the world blathering on about how everyone should be DAPing as soon as possible like the music conductor of the Titanic striking up everyone's favorite song one more time as their ship goes down.

[MackZatis]

And yet, we'll still have the DAP addicts of the world blathering on about how everyone should be DAPing as soon as possible like the music conductor of the Titanic striking up everyone's favorite song one more time as their ship goes down.

This is particularly humorous. Made me spit my drink out as I read it....

[dap-addict]

I'm quite sympathetic to the old Gonzo 2014-7 and even to SOS nostalgia.

But you non-DAP/non-DVP and dry fans are quite funny when suggesting that rising base film production costs didnt badly affect studios rentability. Problem is not in sex acts or side-fetish fashions as such, but if at all fees for these acts.

I've been lobbying for DAP in different porn forums for 20 years and I was actually pretty successful in getting more DAP scenes produced also thanks to early career DAPbreakin's - until high production costs made it unfeasible to run largely DAP-based productions in EU. Now fees have to come down, while staying at a fair and motivating level in EU. But for some time DAP porn production has to move to Latin America because production costs are much lower there, while still paying fair fees for the girls. I stress the latter as girls are in the centre of this industry and they have to feel sustained! Anyway, DAP is the best payed sex act and the earlier girls offer to do it, the more they can earn and the more DAP porn can get produced. Europorn may go through hard times, but I see no reason for downgrading expectations, Brazilian, Venezuelan. Colombian girls can well meet. The more as there comes a time again, also Brit and French girls will do early DAPs again, if users just pay a bit more for Eurobabes!

[kuaheyden513]

Gay porn on the page causes people to not check out the page much anymore.

There is not other site that do this, What's the point?

[jjwhite1985]

Gay porn on the page causes people to not check out the page much anymore.

There is not other site that do this, What's the point?

Use pornbox not analvids, you can filter out the gay/trans content

[polli123]

So, in the end only the niche clients remained, this means that the studios cornered themselves, because now they only have a very small part of the market, which are those niche scenes, before they controlled the entire hardcore porn market in the world. This is obviously reflected in the fall in profits, and if profits fall, investments fall, and if investments fall, the scenes get worse and worse, and if the scenes get worse, no one buys, and if no one buys, the studios close, which is where we end up now...

At least for me this is absolutely true. I was a happy paying customer for years when there were only some high quality updates every day.

I quit when lots of low quality content started capturing the site and the old studios started filming literally every scene with piss or puke. It is ok if some of the scenes feature content like this, but almost every scene?

And no, I did not move to OF, because the content there is mostly overpriced low quality. I am just saving my money now.

[Anselm_Weinberg]

I am personally not anti-piss but I stumbled upon this self-evaluating quote from way back in 2020 and thought it interesting to share, considering how much piss has become normalised over the years. Posted in this thread since some seem to blame piss for the perceived decline of the flagship studios. Whether this and other "niches" becoming a quasi requirement played a role in that and thereby narrowed down the possibilities in terms of getting new talent etc. remains an open question.

To release wet content, imho, makes sense in moderate amount only, otherwise I lose credibility and I became a pee studio. I release 1/week, eventually 2 when there are problems of turnover of release between studio, but I do not want to focus on wet content.

Bottom line, to me wet content are ok when they are not the main source of income, and because there is an audience for it and it is right to keep the audience happy and because few models are maybe into it, but I didn't work 20 years in this industry to run a pisser, I would be ashamed of that.

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=21697&p=297278#p297278

[xxxVIPERxxx]

It is just a sign of the times, and the evolution of porn. In the late 90s, when Max Hardcore, JAV started pissing all over girls' faces, and making extreme puke porn. Then to the early 00s when South America/Germany started that too, but they were also really into scat.

What Max Hardcore did 25 years ago was very innovative, and ground breaking for that time. Now, you look at JAV, you look at the best German/European porn, you look at Yummy, the remainder of GIO studios...and piss/wet scenes, with puke is a very popular and common trend.

[terrysdirtysecret]

I disagree that extreme content is driving people away. Isn’t porn something where, as you watch more, desensitization sets in, and more extreme acts are required? If you’re using porn once a month perhaps a good hard ass fuck of an 18 year old will suffice. Using it daily? Maybe you want to see her get slapped, wait, drink piss…how about 3 cocks in her ass while RR pukes on her face?

OF? Maybe that impacts. Camgirls, for sure, if you can find the right ones.

[NEScaffe96]

To release wet content, imho, makes sense in moderate amount only, otherwise I lose credibility and I became a pee studio. I release 1/week, eventually 2 when there are problems of turnover of release between studio, but I do not want to focus on wet content.

Bottom line, to me wet content are ok when they are not the main source of income, and because there is an audience for it and it is right to keep the audience happy and because few models are maybe into it, but I didn't work 20 years in this industry to run a pisser, I would be ashamed of that.

You will be remembered as milker, not pisser. That's lot worse.

Piss is a regular body liquid, milk not, except few female models, sometimes, after pregnancy.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

I disagree that extreme content is driving people away. Isn’t porn something where, as you watch more, desensitization sets in, and more extreme acts are required? If you’re using porn once a month perhaps a good hard ass fuck of an 18 year old will suffice. Using it daily? Maybe you want to see her get slapped, wait, drink piss…how about 3 cocks in her ass while RR pukes on her face?

OF? Maybe that impacts. Camgirls, for sure, if you can find the right ones.

It is not extreme porn that is driving people away.
It is the internet itself, with O F, Camming, webshows, and other similar such site platforms.

If anything it is the hardcore porn, with some extreme content that is keeping this alive.

[dap-addict]

Exactly, Viper!
So called extreme content shot with many studs, a feat OF certainly cant provide, will keep a small part of the old porn imperium afloat. It will be probabely produces in Latin America mainly, or end user prices will have to rise considerably.

To release wet content, imho, makes sense in moderate amount only, otherwise I lose credibility and I became a pee studio. I release 1/week, eventually 2 when there are problems of turnover of release between studio, but I do not want to focus on wet content.

Bottom line, to me wet content are ok when they are not the main source of income, and because there is an audience for it and it is right to keep the audience happy and because few models are maybe into it, but I didn't work 20 years in this industry to run a pisser, I would be ashamed of that.

This is how Giorgio Grandi got more and more driven into adding piss in most of GIO studio releases, I'd have to count exactly, but looks like up from 1-2 to 5 wet scenes per week.

[sticky9mm]

Gay porn on the page causes people to not check out the page much anymore.

There is not other site that do this, What's the point?

The site is ran by complete fucking idiots they think they know better then the people who consume porn 7 scenes and all stale barefoot naked absolute no sex appeal yea that gay shit on the front page is fucking retarded straight and gay porn should never share the same page

[vvvv84335]

Gay porn on the page causes people to not check out the page much anymore.

There is not other site that do this, What's the point?

The site is ran by complete fucking idiots they think they know better then the people who consume porn 7 scenes and all stale barefoot naked absolute no sex appeal yea that gay shit on the front page is fucking retarded straight and gay porn should never share the same page

I've been here for well over 10 years and this site has always been about homoerotic porn... You must be new here.

For the last 5+ years I think there's been a multiple threads popping up saying LP/AV is dying, yet they continue to pump out new scenes. Just because you don't enjoy every single scene they make, doesn't correlate to the site dying. They must be making money or they wouldn't be producing more content.

[TheVulture]

Good thread. Been away a while so not really up to speed with things but the thing that stopped me buying here was a combination of the uber-male domination vibe (angry hands, twisting, slapping, throat-grabbing etc., all of which turns me off) with the bizarre later obsession with puke (?) all becoming a bit of a tipping point. I would like to buy stuff here again but I feel like I've maxed it out a bit. The current style is just a bit off-putting.

I understand the OF angle but I don't think you can easily reduce porn to the zero sum concept of girls making the most money via the easiest/least extreme means. Of course that will be a consideration for many but the bottom line is that a lot of women love really hard and nasty sex and porn is the easiest and safest way to achieve this. Imagine Anna de Ville or Kristy Black doubling their cash income by getting into tame porn. Would that be a home run result for them? Hmm. Kristy has an "I love anal sex" tattoo. This isn't just for effect or to raise her earning potential. She, like, loves anal sex. And why not?

Point is, I can't help but think that AV/LP has chosen to reduce its female talent pool via the whole escalating physical aggression of the last 10 or so years, which presumably was done to boost short-term incomes via pitching to a certain male audience. It might be hard to measure but has that maybe tilted lots of young women who might otherwise have readily entered porn to perhaps think the cons outweigh the pros? We hear a lot here in the UK about young people being scarred by early exposure to violent porn on their phones. I think it's less the sex acts than the angry vibe that is the problem. I saw a great quote from a young liberal women here who isn't per se opposed to porn but was more challenging the Andrew Tate angle to it: "We need to talk about the slapping and choking". She wasn't a prude, she just obviously sees something a bit distasteful that turns her off. Why wouldn't that be a common opinion amongst young women? How many of them want to be slapped and choked during sex? Very few, surely.

I think porn could put its house in order more by making its scenes more about, well, the sex. Hardcore gangbang anal, for example, but without angry dudes wrestling or degrading the girls. I think that would help create an easier throughflow of girls and give the producers more leeway around fees. They're offering the girls something they want without occupational hazards and from which they can walk away with more dignity. You can barter around that. But if you're offering them hardcore gangbang anal with male dom "extras" you probably need to pay more. The girls can barter more and why shouldn't they?

Maybe this is just self-serving stuff as I'm basically describing the porn I want to see but I do think it's a bit mad to consider ultra-male dominant porn as a long-term financial model. Eventually you're going to scare off the new talent and maybe consumer attitudes towards it change as well, whereas there will always be a place for hard consensual porn.

I'll always keep looking for hard porn where capturing heat from the girls is the primary focus anyway. If AP/LV or anyone else wants to make it then I'll buy it. If not, I won't. I like to think that I'm not really niche in that thinking in 2024 but who knows?

[dap-addict]

I think porn could put its house in order more by making its scenes more about, well, the sex. Hardcore gangbang anal, for example, but without angry dudes wrestling or degrading the girls. I think that would help create an easier throughflow of girls and give the producers more leeway around fees.

+ 1
Very important thought!
Also great to have your voice back here, TheVulture!

[TheVulture]

+ 1
Very important thought!
Also great to have your voice back here, TheVulture!

How do.

You seem to have a lot of contact with female porn stars and as you're not their paymaster I'm guessing they might be more candid with you than with, say, a producer or an agent. What's your take on how the girls feel about the modern porn "manhandle" vibe? Do any of them express concerns to you or do you get the feeling they're fine with it? Obviously they're all different people but I'd be surprised if the dominant attitude wasn't one of a sort of grim acceptance...."It goes with the territory" kind of thing, rather than any kind of genuine enthusiasm for it. But I'd be interested to hear your more informed take on it.

Have you ever come across any kind of anecdotal evidence that girls have either left porn or not got involved in the first place purely due to its male dom nature? In other words, they love the sex but hate the very physical treatment. Do you think this is in any way something that is a consideration for them?

[hyapet]

All of this stuff is secondary, really.

PB/AV makes a lot of mistakes to be sure - like, a ton of them, okay - but it misses everything that's going on in the larger picture.

I know that this would be the cue to introduce the OF angle - but it goes so much beyond just that. In order to segway into that though, we'll have to cover just how bad the situation on the ground actually is.

Okay - so PB/AV made a lot of mistakes - but North American studios that didn't? Still suffering. Extremely hard. They all toss around and share the same extremely small handful of girls who can rise up to "traditional" beauty standards amongst each other. The minute you see a young teen girl on any interracial site in the States - you're going to see them on all the others - often several times as is how shallow that pool has becomes. But ... even worse?

Girl's these days are aging like milk. It used to be that many of the girl's who got into porn came from broken households that, all things being what they were, could still afford the time to feed them nutritious meals. Vegetables, meats, dairy, and fiber. You know - normal food. What's ended up happening now, though, is that most of the girl's entering the porn industry come from backgrounds where they were raised by a single mom - and in turn - ate a lot of processed food. One person doesn't have the time to work 8 - 10 hours a day and then come home and cook a nutritious meal. Ah - just throw something into the microwave.

The result? All of these girl's who are 20 years old look like they're 35. With dried out sagging skin. Pouches. And just this ... plastic sheen that covers everything they are, but makes them look both incredibly brittle and incredibly plastic.

Another factor that adds significantly to this is that, prior to 2020, social media didn't have the official pronounced influence it does today, or rather, all the girls who were coming up and going into the porn industry weren't a product of looking at that crap for their entire lives. Meaning, their notions of beauty were more individualized, and followed what the girl herself thought made her look the most beautiful. These days?

The amount of plastic fucking surgery girl's are getting in their early twenties is absolutely disgusting. And it turns them from looking like actual human beings into these weirdly morphed barbie dolls. They all follow the same trends on IG, one of which apparently is to be tanned, despite it looking absolutely fucking dreadful on almost all white girls. Next up - gigantic silicon infused buster tits on every girl, making bustiness not just less special (because it isn't rare), but the girl's who do get the procedures particularly off-putting because you can just spot them from a fucking mile away and they always look like they want to open up and fire a nuclear missile into the sky.

So, you have a whole series of prematurely super-aged girl's who are tanning themselves into weird brown/orange artificial glows, getting unnecessary plastic surgery, and body modifications that stick out like a sore thumb. It's like a bad 1970's movie on what a cyberpunk future would look like in the year 2050.

This series of girls also all act the same as well. Not-so-secretly misandrist whilst having these annoyingly high-pitched monotonic voices that all seem perfectly suited to deliver the absolute drivel and nothing they have to say. Like, I'm not looking for a University lecture or anything, but I'd like the girl who's going to be fucked in the video to at least have a personality. That should be the bare minimum.

So, increasingly, the porn world is becoming a space where for every single Carrie Sage or Lily Starfire you have on one hand, you've got roughly 999 out of the 1,000 videos that are released for this site on the other.

The above poster kuaheyden514 really nailed it - when you arrive to a porn site - any porn site - and the main thing they show you at the top is two dudes fucking each other - then there really shouldn't be any straight content on that site. Somebody replied, "Whell, ahktually, analvids has always been kind of homoerotic." Yeah - not really. I'm coming here to watch girls get fucked in the ass. Not dudes. Big fucking difference.

And it's this meshing of all genres into one another - creating this gigantic slurry of sloppy, shitty porn that's shot with a whole sequence of 25-but-looks-35 and 35-but-looks-45 actresses equipped with their 60 fucking ugly tattoos and triangular tits ready to go Defcon 1 at any given moment, complete with the dried, shriveled onion like faces injected with whatever plastic filler option is the cheapest on the market - that has turned something that was once special and artistic into the equivalent of using axe body spray instead of taking a show.

PB/AV ain't helping themselves - but the wider gene pool that's gone into the performing side has really shallowed out over the past two to three years. And - even worse for PB/AV - once Russia closed it's doors, and locked all of their hot girls behind them, we get to see what the rest of Europe has been purposefully hiding from the world up until this point. And brother - it ain't pretty.

But yeah - as I said earlier - PB/AV have made a lot of mistakes - but the surrounding circumstances they find themselves in regardless is the contrast between being in the Garden of Eden (2012 - 2020) to being in the middle of the Sahara fucking Desert (2022 - 2024).

[dap-addict]

Have you ever come across any kind of anecdotal evidence that girls have either left porn or not got involved in the first place purely due to its male dom nature? In other words, they love the sex but hate the very physical treatment. Do you think this is in any way something that is a consideration for them?

Not really, most take it as part of today's porn jobs. I have a friend avoiding going back to AGO, but she's the only one I know really trying to do all other shots but work for him again. I think it's rather something traumatic with one AGO actor and some problems she got after working several times for the studio. I recently ask in my interviews and/or private talks about AGO work especially, since studio celebrates humiliation and most girls tell me it was all very calculated and set up and looking much worse on film than in reality. I also accompanied a friend online during one of her work stays in that studio and never there was any problem at all, neither BTS nor during scene breaks, nor what she told me right after the scene.

I'll come back to your other question, though.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

You are all of course entitled to your own opinions, and some of you make very interesting points.

I think the cost of everything comes in to it as well.
The girls' fees are much higher now compared to 10+ years ago, perhaps you are talking about a 3x or more increase in their fee demands from a developed, Westernised country e.g. Europe or America.

The margins for profits are much slimmer now compared to the past. But saying that, I still think LPAV releases some great scenes...last night as an example. So I would not brand this site as dying, but perhaps not at is previous peak....However, that can all change...they get a lot more new talents, South American models...great strategies for keeping costs at an acceptable level, and much better value overall.

[TheVulture]

Not really, most take it as part of today's porn jobs.

That's fine but at the same time it can validate what I'm saying. The point is that for the girls the only bad thing with porn should be the exposure/stigma etc. Literally every second they spend on a shoot should be wildly enjoyable, or else the director is basically failing. This is sex being filmed here and the point is to create the wildest sex imaginable to the participants and audience. It's fantasy stuff - not a tick box thing or preparing something to a set formula. If there's even 1 thing that any of the performers are "just putting up with" then you're thinking about the end consumer and not the scene itself, which is a problem. And you're making the experience less enjoyable for the girls - however slightly - which creates a problem with your talent supply.

It's a bit like a young band working with a hotshot producer who insists they put some extra elements in a song, maybe soften it up a bit, because the record company have their eye on some radio play and it will help it sell to a certain audience. The band might put up with it. "It's part of the job". But the song has been weakened from a critical perspective and the band won't be 100% happy. So it's a compromised piece of art. And that record company/producer will then find themselves working only with bands who are prepared to cheapen their music. That's fine for them (they're on the right side of the art vs profit conflict) but is it good for music generally? The analogy is slightly clunky as there isn't such damage done to the incoming talent pool but you get my point. Porn girls should basically love their work from top to bottom. The "bad" stuff - for which they are essentially recompensed way over and above the "work" - should only ever happen to them when it gets released. On set they should be 100% uninhibited and 100% committed to (and in control of) everything they're doing.

[TheVulture]

The girls' fees are much higher now compared to 10+ years ago

Why is that though? Is it because the sex is so much more rough and degrading than it used to be and thus you're paying an extra premium to girls because fewer of them will do it? If so then the producers are creating the problem.

I don't think the extra hardness (note the difference between this and roughness as this is important) is a problem. I'm pretty sure that most of the best porn girls of earlier eras would happily have done 1 hour DAP scenes if they were available back then and probably without demanding much extra cash for it. It's a supply and demand thing so if such things alone without male dom roughness didn't reduce the talent pool - which I suspect they wouldn't - then the producers could get away with charging them less.

[Sweep11]

One more reason it’s dying.

They have completely mishandled the problem of users paid for content being deleted.
Then also failed to give any explanation of what went wrong or a timeline to fix it.

Oh and too much crap amateur porn

[jjwhite1985]

The girls' fees are much higher now compared to 10+ years ago

Why is that though? Is it because the sex is so much more rough and degrading than it used to be and thus you're paying an extra premium to girls because fewer of them will do it? If so then the producers are creating the problem.

I don't think the extra hardness (note the difference between this and roughness as this is important) is a problem. I'm pretty sure that most of the best porn girls of earlier eras would happily have done 1 hour DAP scenes if they were available back then and probably without demanding much extra cash for it. It's a supply and demand thing so if such things alone without male dom roughness didn't reduce the talent pool - which I suspect they wouldn't - then the producers could get away with charging them less.

Partly because the price of everything has gone up, so it's natural to charge more for your work as your cost of living goes up.

But also because the actual nature and dynamic of the porn industry has changed. OF gets talked about a lot because it's the biggest platform, but really the foundational dynamic of the industry has shifted toward a direct-to-consumer approach. It never used to be the case, but there are now dozens of platforms, including OF, designed to allow performers to produce their own content and communicate and sell directly to their customers, with the ability to add a personal touch drawing in more customers than ever before. It gives performers total control over their content and working environment, and crucially the ability to earn a lot more money than they would through conventional porn. In short, if they can make a ton of money this way, they don't need to settle for less to shoot mainstream porn. This shift in the foundational dynamic of the industry is the primary reason for there being fewer girls available to mainstream studios nowadays, not just at LP but across the US industry also.

[TheVulture]

Partly because the price of everything has gone up, so it's natural to charge more for your work as your cost of living goes up.

But also because the actual nature and dynamic of the porn industry has changed. OF gets talked about a lot because it's the biggest platform, but really the foundational dynamic of the industry has shifted toward a direct-to-consumer approach. It never used to be the case, but there are now dozens of platforms, including OF, designed to allow performers to produce their own content and communicate and sell directly to their customers, with the ability to add a personal touch drawing in more customers than ever before. It gives performers total control over their content and working environment, and crucially the ability to earn a lot more money than they would through conventional porn. In short, if they can make a ton of money this way, they don't need to settle for less to shoot mainstream porn. This shift in the foundational dynamic of the industry is the primary reason for there being fewer girls available to mainstream studios nowadays, not just at LP but across the US industry also.

I get that but it's somehow insufficient as an answer, because as a female porn star how do you produce your own 6 guy vs 1 girl DAP gangbang? That's something that needs a collective of performers, directors, camera operators etc. This is where the niche area exists for the traditional porn "stable" and which you would think would be largely untouched by something like OF.

I'm no expert on the economics of the porn industry but I think the concept of a traditional porn stable is very much alive as long as the content is strong and the flow of talent remains stable, which is ultimately reliant on creating a climate in which girls want to perform and where they know that they can't easily achieve the same results under their own steam. There is a yin and yang in play here I think. The stables obviously want "hard" content but they need not to veer too much into circus territory as this limits their potential to survive. I would say that the line should be drawn much lower than puke and prolapse there but again maybe this is self-serving and what do I know? As with most things, I try to apply a common sense perspective. Will there always be girls who want to perform acts like hard anal and DAP? Yes, I think so. Will there always be girls who want to puke by being throat-fucked and be manhandled for an hour? I'm not so sure. If the stables want to gamble on that latter angle as their lifeblood in a competitive market then good luck to them but they'll get no sympathy here if they're decimated by tame self-produced content. It will be exactly what they deserve.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Girl's these days are aging like milk.

The result? All of these girl's who are 20 years old look like they're 35. With dried out sagging skin. Pouches. And just this ... plastic sheen that covers everything they are, but makes them look both incredibly brittle and incredibly plastic.

I disagree, and want to say that a lot of girls that appear on here are much better than the type of girls that you describe.

Girls here do not look 15+ years older than they actually are. Girls are not too plastic as you describe.

The comments about you thinking the girls on here have dried out, sagging skin, Pouches etc...I am not even to respond to, as I think you are being overly offensive to many of the wonderful girls on here.

[jjwhite1985]

Partly because the price of everything has gone up, so it's natural to charge more for your work as your cost of living goes up.

But also because the actual nature and dynamic of the porn industry has changed. OF gets talked about a lot because it's the biggest platform, but really the foundational dynamic of the industry has shifted toward a direct-to-consumer approach. It never used to be the case, but there are now dozens of platforms, including OF, designed to allow performers to produce their own content and communicate and sell directly to their customers, with the ability to add a personal touch drawing in more customers than ever before. It gives performers total control over their content and working environment, and crucially the ability to earn a lot more money than they would through conventional porn. In short, if they can make a ton of money this way, they don't need to settle for less to shoot mainstream porn. This shift in the foundational dynamic of the industry is the primary reason for there being fewer girls available to mainstream studios nowadays, not just at LP but across the US industry also.

I get that but it's somehow insufficient as an answer, because as a female porn star how do you produce your own 6 guy vs 1 girl DAP gangbang? That's something that needs a collective of performers, directors, camera operators etc. This is where the niche area exists for the traditional porn "stable" and which you would think would be largely untouched by something like OF.

They wouldn't, because when you give them the choice most don't want to shoot that super hardcore stuff when they can earn even more just from doing vanilla/softcore stuff. The ability to do easier work for less money is attractive for everybody, including pornstars. That said, a number of high-profile pornstars do in fact release DP/DAP scenes on their personal platforms, including OF, and some have even released their first DP/DAP on these platforms. It's great marketing for them.

A common career trajectory nowadays is to join the industry and shoot mainstream porn for a short period of time in order to build a name and a fanbase, and then migrate to predominantly personal platforms, maybe shooting a mainstream scene every once in a blue moon.

[TheVulture]

They wouldn't, because when you give them the choice most don't want to shoot that super hardcore stuff when they can earn even more just from doing vanilla/softcore stuff. The ability to do easier work for less money is attractive for everybody, including pornstars. That said, a number of high-profile pornstars do in fact release DP/DAP scenes on their personal platforms, including OF, and some have even released their first DP/DAP on these platforms. It's great marketing for them.

A common career trajectory nowadays is to join the industry and shoot mainstream porn for a short period of time in order to build a name and a fanbase, and then migrate to predominantly personal platforms, maybe shooting a mainstream scene every once in a blue moon.

OK but now you're dismissing the point I made when I joined this thread just yesterday, which is that not all porn girls just want the most money for the easiest work. Some of them really love hard sex. It might be hard for a lot of male porn consumers to grasp but I don't think many female porn stars view their porn careers as a constant source of shame and many will find the sex incredibly fulfilling and liberating. This is where OF can't satisfy them but a porn stable can.

[jjwhite1985]

They wouldn't, because when you give them the choice most don't want to shoot that super hardcore stuff when they can earn even more just from doing vanilla/softcore stuff. The ability to do easier work for less money is attractive for everybody, including pornstars. That said, a number of high-profile pornstars do in fact release DP/DAP scenes on their personal platforms, including OF, and some have even released their first DP/DAP on these platforms. It's great marketing for them.

A common career trajectory nowadays is to join the industry and shoot mainstream porn for a short period of time in order to build a name and a fanbase, and then migrate to predominantly personal platforms, maybe shooting a mainstream scene every once in a blue moon.

OK but now you're dismissing the point I made when I joined this thread just yesterday, which is that not all porn girls just want the most money for the easiest work. Some of them really love hard sex. It might be hard for a lot of male porn consumers to grasp but I don't think many female porn stars view their porn careers as a constant source of shame and many will find the sex incredibly fulfilling and liberating. This is where OF can't satisfy them but a porn stable can.

Well that's the problem - the vast majority do, and the minority that genuinely get off on this kind of stuff and would choose to shoot it over easier and more lucrative alternatives simply aren't numerous enough to keep mainstream studio output at anything like the level it was before this shift in dynamic.

[TheVulture]

Well that's the problem - the vast majority do, and the minority that genuinely get off on this kind of stuff and would choose to shoot it over easier and more lucrative alternatives simply aren't numerous enough to keep mainstream studio output at anything like the level it was before this shift in dynamic.

Sure, but I think it's hard to judge why there are fewer girls available for AV/LP when there are a lot of factors at play. I personally think the excessively rough/degrading style that is pretty much the norm in modern porn is a bigger wrench in the conveyor-belt of girls than the new technologies. But it's difficult to say. If porn could get its house in order and produce, you know, less angry/misogynistic content that still ticked the "hardcore" box then we could probably better assess things.

I wonder if the likes of AV/LP make efforts to find out what the barriers are to girls entering porn and potentially look to address them (if/where they can). Or do they just take a "This is what we're doing - either get on board or don't" approach. Porn creators have a lot of power. They create the culture. They're not helpless, but it depends on what specific factors are at play.

[House MD]

Gay porn on the page causes people to not check out the page much anymore.

There is not other site that do this, What's the point?

Use pornbox not analvids, you can filter out the gay/trans content

Gay scenes are everywhere especially in 100% Hell AGO scenes where one can only see male assholes instead of Emily Pink's face

We can only unsubscribe stop buing videos on this website and wait for AGO etc to get bankrupt

At this stage only pornworld series are watchable to a straight audience

[rroper472]

Same body type of girls ...no variety !!

[hyapet]

Same body type of girls ...no variety !!

This actually, believe it or not, ties everything that everyone else has been saying nicely up with a pretty little bow.

The idea of creating a "fun, 100% pleasurable zone" in the porn shoot is nice, but for the majority of people who partake in the industry, isn't a factor in determining whether or not they'll do a shoot.

This is the bare tacks of it - a girl's only got so much time before her profitability and allure in the market diminishes. This is not true of all performers - but for every Syren De Mer or Dee Williams you have - you have roughly 4,000 girls who after hitting a certain age, nobody wanted to book anymore.

What this means is that if a girl wants to do porn, or decides to do porn, if she's smart, she knows she's going to have to maximize the time she has available to herself. And what's an amazing way of maximizing the worth of your content? Actually owning it.

Not taking a $5,000 paycheck for a scene that ends up earning $60,000. But, rather, getting that $60,000 yourself, or at least the large portion of it. Also, creating an eco-system where you can fulfill private requests for outrageous sums of money. If a girl is smart - and truly beautiful - she can earn the equivalent of what someone else would in a year in a single month. When this happens - if the girl is smart - she will earn the equivalent of a lifetime's worth of money in three to four years.

That's the goal.

Running around from studio to studio and getting $3,000 a pop to have dudes make you barf by pissing down your throat isn't the pathway to make that happen.

Which is why those who are truly beautiful (9s and 10s) you find on OF - giggling - as people work towards the $1,000 goal to have the girl take her sweater off (don't worry, she's still wearing a top and two more bras, the last of which probably won't come off, ever).

And that's why the girl's who wouldn't be able to do that there ... kind of end up here. The girl's that all look the same that rroper472 was talking about?

Super skinny, tattoo'd from head to toe, sunken face with tennis-ball dome cheeks, obviously fake balloon-like breasts, tanned, and unshaven. All of the girls can tick at least two of those boxes, if not all of them.

And that's who we get. The leftovers. Because, face it. A person who actually respects themselves - and this isn't me taking a shot at the performers or people who enjoy watching it, I'm just saying what actually is - a person who respects themselves doesn't want to get pee'd on. And would do anything in their power not to have to do that.

Do some girls enjoy the kink? Do some figure it's just part of the job? Sure.

But ...

If you've got prospects - and you've got a chance to ring in those OF dollars - read: you're gorgeous as fuck - how many of these girl's would be like, "Yeah, that's great and all, but you know what I really want? To take a 12 inch cock down my throat and have the dude piss into my lungs, and for me to cry as I'm puking it out, yeah. That's me."

There's maybe one or two girl's like that. Maybe three or four. And they've all shot videos with AV/PB. Dozens, if not hundreds of them. And they'll be back next week. And they'll be doing the same thing. All over again. Because, hey, they've got the market cornered.

No one else wants to come here and do that shit.

Double Anal would have been acceptable as an "extreme kink act that almost crosses the line of no redemption but still lands within it" - but drinking some grandpa's piss out of a dog bowl? That definitely crosses it.

So - that's what the site became. A water sports site. And you've got your small handful of actresses who are cool with it - because they know they've got the work for a long time coming.

Because the site can't do anything else.

And nobody else really wants to come to it. Both audience and performer wise.

So ... buckle up. The faces you see today - will most likely be the faces you're still seeing in five years from now. Provided your wallet wants to pay for the same thing with the same person over and over and over again.

Adding pissing to Legalporno was the biggest mistake. That's like saying, "I'm just going to smoke a little bit of crack."

Doesn't work that way.

And the modern day reality that rroper472 pointed out is the direct result of it.

[davebowman]

I was a happy paying customer for years when there were only some high quality updates every day.

Personally, the big drop in my spending came when the whole ticket devaluation/price increase kicked in. With the addition of VAT now added on top, scenes are double the price (maybe more in some cases) of what was being charged when I first joined this site. This makes me a very picky customer, and has wiped out a lot of impulse or medium tier buys. A scene has to look like it's going to be amazing for me to buy it now, rather than merely 'good', so my spending overall has decreased massively.

I know it's a chick and egg situation - if they weren't making a profit at the old ticket prices, then they had to charge more - but the result is I'm spending far less overall, so I'm not sure that counts as a real 'win' for anyone.

[TheVulture]

Same body type of girls ...no variety !!

This actually, believe it or not, ties everything that everyone else has been saying nicely up with a pretty little bow.

The idea of creating a "fun, 100% pleasurable zone" in the porn shoot is nice, but for the majority of people who partake in the industry, isn't a factor in determining whether or not they'll do a shoot.

This is the bare tacks of it - a girl's only got so much time before her profitability and allure in the market diminishes. This is not true of all performers - but for every Syren De Mer or Dee Williams you have - you have roughly 4,000 girls who after hitting a certain age, nobody wanted to book anymore.

What this means is that if a girl wants to do porn, or decides to do porn, if she's smart, she knows she's going to have to maximize the time she has available to herself. And what's an amazing way of maximizing the worth of your content? Actually owning it.

Not taking a $5,000 paycheck for a scene that ends up earning $60,000. But, rather, getting that $60,000 yourself, or at least the large portion of it. Also, creating an eco-system where you can fulfill private requests for outrageous sums of money. If a girl is smart - and truly beautiful - she can earn the equivalent of what someone else would in a year in a single month. When this happens - if the girl is smart - she will earn the equivalent of a lifetime's worth of money in three to four years.

That's the goal.

Running around from studio to studio and getting $3,000 a pop to have dudes make you barf by pissing down your throat isn't the pathway to make that happen.

Which is why those who are truly beautiful (9s and 10s) you find on OF - giggling - as people work towards the $1,000 goal to have the girl take her sweater off (don't worry, she's still wearing a top and two more bras, the last of which probably won't come off, ever).

And that's why the girl's who wouldn't be able to do that there ... kind of end up here. The girl's that all look the same that rroper472 was talking about?

Super skinny, tattoo'd from head to toe, sunken face with tennis-ball dome cheeks, obviously fake balloon-like breasts, tanned, and unshaven. All of the girls can tick at least two of those boxes, if not all of them.

And that's who we get. The leftovers. Because, face it. A person who actually respects themselves - and this isn't me taking a shot at the performers or people who enjoy watching it, I'm just saying what actually is - a person who respects themselves doesn't want to get pee'd on. And would do anything in their power not to have to do that.

Do some girls enjoy the kink? Do some figure it's just part of the job? Sure.

But ...

If you've got prospects - and you've got a chance to ring in those OF dollars - read: you're gorgeous as fuck - how many of these girl's would be like, "Yeah, that's great and all, but you know what I really want? To take a 12 inch cock down my throat and have the dude piss into my lungs, and for me to cry as I'm puking it out, yeah. That's me."

There's maybe one or two girl's like that. Maybe three or four. And they've all shot videos with AV/PB. Dozens, if not hundreds of them. And they'll be back next week. And they'll be doing the same thing. All over again. Because, hey, they've got the market cornered.

No one else wants to come here and do that shit.

Double Anal would have been acceptable as an "extreme kink act that almost crosses the line of no redemption but still lands within it" - but drinking some grandpa's piss out of a dog bowl? That definitely crosses it.

So - that's what the site became. A water sports site. And you've got your small handful of actresses who are cool with it - because they know they've got the work for a long time coming.

Because the site can't do anything else.

And nobody else really wants to come to it. Both audience and performer wise.

So ... buckle up. The faces you see today - will most likely be the faces you're still seeing in five years from now. Provided your wallet wants to pay for the same thing with the same person over and over and over again.

Adding pissing to Legalporno was the biggest mistake. That's like saying, "I'm just going to smoke a little bit of crack."

Doesn't work that way.

And the modern day reality that rroper472 pointed out is the direct result of it.

But you've admitted within that analysis that DAP is a selling point. However smart a girl is, she can't fulfill all of her sexual fantasies via OF if she's uninhibited and adventurous (which the majority of girls entering porn obviously are). Are Anna de Ville or Kristy Black going to get their rocks off by flashing their knickers on a webcam? Not really.

So how does a girl go about doing DAP (or just hard gangbang anal)? She needs a studio (some studs, a director, a post-production team etc.) Some girls do down that route themelves (eg Natasha Teen, Proxy Paige etc.) but then they're in the arena of being porn producers themselves so subject to the same economic challenges.

Clearly there is still a role for a porn network and the potential for it to be successful and sustainable. You've said it yourself - it's the obscene/degrading stuff like puke that is the barrier, not the hardcore porn work per se.

[jjwhite1985]

But you've admitted within that analysis that DAP is a selling point. However smart a girl is, she can't fulfill all of her sexual fantasies via OF if she's uninhibited and adventurous (which the majority of girls entering porn obviously are). Are Anna de Ville or Kristy Black going to get their rocks off by flashing their knickers on a webcam? Not really.

So how does a girl go about doing DAP (or just hard gangbang anal)? She needs a studio (some studs, a director, a post-production team etc.) Some girls do down that route themelves (eg Natasha Teen, Proxy Paige etc.) but then they're in the arena of being porn producers themselves so subject to the same economic challenges.

Clearly there is still a role for a porn network and the potential for it to be successful and sustainable. You've said it yourself - it's the obscene/degrading stuff like puke that is the barrier, not the hardcore porn work per se.

It's funny you should mention Kristy Black, since she's probably the most notorious example of the new porn landscape - one of the most popular performers at LP, who mostly abandoned the site in order to focus predominantly on OF, and the occasional vanilla shoot.

[hyapet]

But you've admitted within that analysis that DAP is a selling point. However smart a girl is, she can't fulfill all of her sexual fantasies via OF if she's uninhibited and adventurous (which the majority of girls entering porn obviously are). Are Anna de Ville or Kristy Black going to get their rocks off by flashing their knickers on a webcam? Not really.

So how does a girl go about doing DAP (or just hard gangbang anal)? She needs a studio (some studs, a director, a post-production team etc.) Some girls do down that route themelves (eg Natasha Teen, Proxy Paige etc.) but then they're in the arena of being porn producers themselves so subject to the same economic challenges.

Clearly there is still a role for a porn network and the potential for it to be successful and sustainable. You've said it yourself - it's the obscene/degrading stuff like puke that is the barrier, not the hardcore porn work per se.

I think you underestimate how crafty and creative some of these OF girls can actually be. I think we all do.

Will an OF girl ever reach the same heights of a traditional porn studio on her own in terms of an actual studio, professional equipment, and a professional cameraman? Probably not. But that's where the realities of the market come into play.

As much as we are allured to the DAP gangbang - that isn't the majority of porn consumers. Not even close. Most guys aren't okay with seeing two gigantic cocks taking up 40% of the camera. They'd really rather ... just see the girl naked. And quite honestly, for most girls (not all of them), they'd really rather do that too. So, it's this re-establishment of the vanilla porn via OF that really puts the greater market into a more truthful context.

What essentially ended up happening was that the people who used to shoot porn were all gigantic perverts. And being as such, they dictated the practices that went on during the shoots. All of this super hardcore football-team-banging-the-cheerleader is really much more male fantasy than female fantasy. Even if most dudes don't actually want to see seven guys standing around with their cocks hanging out - if they wanted to see the movie with the naked girl - they'd pretty much just have to put up with it.

But now, what has porn turned into for a lot of these girls? Sitting there on the camera and talking to their audience. Like, how many of these guys do you think really want to hear what some eighteen year old taking off her clothes has to say? None of them, I bet. But ... it's just a girl, and there's a chance that she'll get naked, so everybody jumps on board for what is essentially the female fantasy. Which is what everyone in the audience is going to have to cater to because that's who's in charge of the camera now.

It essentially went from one extreme to the other.

Problem for the old extreme is - truthfully - the market was revealed for the size it actually was. Now that all porn isn't automatically forced to have these highly perverted themes and socially unacceptable acts shoved into them - and people can get many more different flavors of porn than they at one time used to - the audience, with all the flavors available to them now, aren't going to necessarily stick with DAPs and pissing. Even if it has the higher production values.

We seem to misunderstand ourselves in that we thought the sex acts are what drove the audiences. No, it was always the girls.

Separate the points that Isis666xxx tries to rope into the topic at large in other topics - he's largely right when he says that the audience follows the girls.

So, if the most beautiful girls can make the equivalent of a million dollars over a few months by slowly taking their sweater off over the course of a couple hours, then ... why would they take two baseball bat sized cocks up their ass or drink piss ?

Furthermore, in today's social and mental health climate, every girl think she's the top beauty out there. So, they're all going to be sitting in front of that webcam, even if they don't make enough money to buy a sandwich with it. Going to the traditional porn industry is seen by most as a sign of failure. You weren't beautiful enough to make it on OF.

And the only way to lose like that - is to actually admit it.

Now, all things being what they are, there is going to be some spill over from OF into the traditional porn market. But, you better believe that the 10s and 9s won't be coming over. You might see an 8 here or there dipped their toes into it, but it's a completely different world. You go from being able to have a lazy evening on the webcam and make a few bucks while telling a few jokes, to having to put on the performance of a lifetime whilst taking a cock up your ass that's seriously rearranging your insides. Most girls would be like ... yeah ... lazy evening it is for me.

So ... all these things you mention - the camera work - the studio - the professionals - the whole "world of porn" that we, the men of the audience, think are so important - actually really doesn't matter at all.

So, even if there is "some appetite" for the super hardcore DAP porn out there, it's not enough where the audience will support the work regardless of who's performing the act. Turns out - at the end of the day - beauty wins.

And I mean that quite literally and figuratively. The top girls of OF have millions of dollars. That's who the role-models are. That's who everyone wants to be.

No one wants to be the girl that just drank a jug of piss and walked away with $2,000 for it.

In that way - both the performers and the audience - and therefore the market - have spoken.

[TheVulture]

It's funny you should mention Kristy Black, since she's probably the most notorious example of the new porn landscape - one of the most popular performers at LP, who mostly abandoned the site in order to focus predominantly on OF, and the occasional vanilla shoot.

Well, I didn't know that so cheers for the info.

I'm not sure that invalidates my point, because Kristy has performed extreme anal for a number of years now. To some extent, she might have got her kicks and OF now acts as a convenient way for her to keep making money via much easier means. Without something like OF, it's easy to imagine Kristy retiring from porn around now. That fits with the timeline of most porn girls of the last 20-30 years. If anything, she's already gone on a bit longer than most.

A better way of looking at it is "Would the next Kristy Black be happy with a purely OF type vanilla porn career without any earlier hardcore element?" Or "Does Kristy lament the fact that OF has only just turned up or does she look back on her AV/LP career with great pride and satisfaction?" I think that Kristy and girls like her have a voracious sexual appetite that OF/vanilla porn can never satisfy, this is the point that the likes of AV/LP need to recognise and exploit for their own ends, while creating a win-win scenario to include the girls. Time will tell if (a) I'm right, and (b) they can do that but I don't really see any other viable approach available to them. If the option for the girls is a zero sum "easy tame profitable stuff" vs "difficult degrading low-earning stuff" with nothing in between then there's only one winner. A tragedy for the porn stables and also bad news for girls looking to get their rocks off via porn.

[jjwhite1985]

It's funny you should mention Kristy Black, since she's probably the most notorious example of the new porn landscape - one of the most popular performers at LP, who mostly abandoned the site in order to focus predominantly on OF, and the occasional vanilla shoot.

Well, I didn't know that so cheers for the info.

I'm not sure that invalidates my point, because Kristy has performed extreme anal for a number of years now.

Yes, and now she doesn't have to unless she wants to and someone is willing to pay her fee, which hasn't been the case at LP for a while now which is why we don't see her anymore.