Are pirate sites destroying the business and what could be d

[Jocke]

I am worried that we won't get high quality porn in the future if there isn't sufficient revenue to be made.

We have had periods when the producers had the upper hand and exploited the market or the performers or anybody in the business without leverage but currently I have got the impression that those of us who are willing to pay for porn despite free options have become fewer and the producers struggle. Is this correct?

What are potential solutions?

My guess is that pay per scene sites like this one is more vulnerable to theft. Many pay an annual subscription of $135 to popular sites and find that a reasonable fee for avoiding ads and getting a decent user interface. This site has a less than optimal user interface and you couldn't buy very many scenes for $135.

If this site was a subscription site with a price similar to or not much higher than the competition I guess a much higher number of customers would be needed to break even. However that might be possible as I think many are currently hesitating to pay the same price for ten scenes here as for a full annual subscription to mainstream sites.

I have bought 5000 scenes and don't know what I think about all of them becoming available to punters at just a subscription fee, but if it meant that I could access all LP scenes while LP Studios got a surge in revenue from new customers I think that would be great.

Are you worried about the profitability of LP and connected studios?

Do you have ideas what to do to improve the situation?

Do you think switching to a subscription model would help recruit many more customers?

[magizi87]

Just a quick google and the numbers have never been better for the porn industry.

Analvids went for the extremes and while doing so priced themselfves out of most people reach.

[zeusanalfreak299]

I love these stigmatized topics. Piracy sites brought me here. It was the early 2010s.

I found out that they shoot hard and quality scenes that you can buy individually to support exactly what you like.

I used to have occasional memberships to Brazzers, Videobox and Evilangel for regular content in good resolution (then DVD, then HD and then FHD).

When I came here, I immediately canceled everything there and never subscribed again. It would be a downgrade.

I have legally purchased almost 800 videos here. Half of them directly after the release. The others later a bit cheaper or with FreeTKTs.

I think a lot more damage is being done to the business these days by cam platforms like OF. Models are showered with money for soft porn and have no incentive to shoot hard porn.

[davebowman]

I think a lot more damage is being done to the business these days by cam platforms like OF. Models are showered with money for soft porn and have no incentive to shoot hard porn.

I'd agree with this. And as much as I and other long-term users complain about AnalVids tripling the price of their scenes over the last few years, the OF model is even worse. There are plenty of folks clearly willing to pay through the nose for inferior scenes (both in terms of hardness of action, length and technical quality) just because they feel they are somehow 'connected' to that girl - even though it's highly likely a lot of the more popular ones are being run by third party managment anyway. As long as dollars keep flowing towards the OF model, traditional monthly subscription porn sites are going to be feeling the pinch.

The democratisation of porn production, and the fact that anyone can shoot material and upload it has led to a massive rise in the amount of material available, but the general standard has got much worse than in the old studio days. Piracy is still a problem that eats into profits, but I think this is the main issue: an ever increasing amount of people fighting over a slice of the pie.

[SuperImp]

I agree with davebowman/zeusanalfreak299. Yup, piracy for the bigger/established studios is more of a known/assumed business risk. Piracy isn't really any different than what it was before, so it'll always be that thorn in the ass unfortunately. Plus, you still have the environment where paying for porn is still not as common when you have the various sites you can watch this stuff on for free. I think the biggest disruptor is the empowerment of users to either control their content or use other established platforms to sell through (OF, MV, etc.). I fully support these users (from that standpoint) too since who the fuck wouldn't want to fully capitalize on your maximum earning potential.

I was reading some posts from Gabbie Carter who is coming back from retirement/hiatus. She won't be doing mainstream porn anymore with the usual studios since the real money isn't there. She said mainstream porn is practically only there for advertising/promotions and to stay relevant in the industry (trendy porn). She's starting an OF for the first time and will only be working with her husband. I think Porn in general will just adapt and transform like usual. There isn't much incentive for anyone to go the typical porn route when they can make so much more money on their own platforms. I agree with them, but I can also see why the Porn I love is also changing.

The issue with OF and other related sites is that the content varies, especially the quality. I've also noticed an uptick in the guys where you know for sure they are trying to use performance enhancements. I'm talking about that 'Sponge' mode erection lol - pretty much in the middle where you aren't fully erect/hard, but somewhat hard enough to at least be aroused. Unfortunately, you can see it bend and/or get squishy on penetration. That's why I always stink eye those who call them 'Studs' lol. That shit is now flooding these platforms now.

I wouldn't be surprised that we'll see it become trendy for new models to dive into the typical porn studios (quick tours/1-and-done) just for advertisements to their own platform. We've seen it already for the last few years, but it wasn't as pervasive.

The biggest issue (aside from maximizing your earning potential using these platforms) is the folks dropping so much money on these platforms. It's easy to fall into the illusion of being within a conversation/direct messaging with the model you are fascinated by. The amount of money these folks are dropping can go from minimal money to millions. Unfortunately, this is a symptom from these types of parasocial relationships. You see it everywhere now, especially Youtube/Twitch/etc. - OF is also notorious for third parties running the model's page in terms of spamming sales/faking messages. However, you also got to imagine - when a girl has 10k subscribers - there is no fucking way she will be able to reply to all of them.

Plus, the way they sell on OF is so outdated/unorganized. While it varies by the model and how she manages her content, you usually can't even tell if the content you are purchasing is old, new, or a dupe. Most of the time, they don't even have a preview/trailer too. The prices can also get crazy for just a few pictures or a 2-minute video. MV excels in that case, but doesn't seem to be anywhere near as popular as OF. Also, I'm amazed at how casual everyone talks about collaborating with others to trade content. These platforms won't be going away, although I feel it might get regulated at some point though.

That and when you hear headlines mentioning this girl made 1 million on OF - you can imagine there are thousands of women reading that and saying I could probably do that too!

[Alan2008]

Just a quick google and the numbers have never been better for the porn industry.

Analvids went for the extremes and while doing so priced themselfves out of most people reach.

I think just like a lot of things the porn industry including LP/AV have been part of a price fixing campaign. Basically all US based porn companies will benefit from the price fixing as their porn will become much cheaper than European porn.

[zeusanalfreak299]

I think a lot more damage is being done to the business these days by cam platforms like OF. Models are showered with money for soft porn and have no incentive to shoot hard porn.

I'd agree with this. And as much as I and other long-term users complain about AnalVids tripling the price of their scenes over the last few years, the OF model is even worse. There are plenty of folks clearly willing to pay through the nose for inferior scenes (both in terms of hardness of action, length and technical quality) just because they feel they are somehow 'connected' to that girl - even though it's highly likely a lot of the more popular ones are being run by third party managment anyway. As long as dollars keep flowing towards the OF model, traditional monthly subscription porn sites are going to be feeling the pinch.

The democratisation of porn production, and the fact that anyone can shoot material and upload it has led to a massive rise in the amount of material available, but the general standard has got much worse than in the old studio days. Piracy is still a problem that eats into profits, but I think this is the main issue: an ever increasing amount of people fighting over a slice of the pie.

That´s why I support pirating OF content or content of similar plattforms. Furthermore, I dont support any of my favs if they switch to OF. They die for me in this moment. No shootings for AV or other hardcore studios = no support.

[zeusanalfreak299]

She won't be doing mainstream porn anymore with the usual studios since the real money isn't there. She said mainstream porn is practically only there for advertising/promotions and to stay relevant in the industry (trendy porn). She's starting an OF for the first time and will only be working with her husband.

This is something I will never understand.
Because I´m a different type of consumer.
I watch porn because I like hardcore fucking like threesomes,
gangbangs with cocks bigger than average.
And then there are others, who just want to see the model,
doesnt matter if the content is soft, or if she is fucked by a normal guy with an average cock...
This is so fucking confusing for me.... its really sad!

The biggest issue (aside from maximizing your earning potential using these platforms) is the folks dropping so much money on these platforms. It's easy to fall into the illusion of being within a conversation/direct messaging with the model you are fascinated by. The amount of money these folks are dropping can go from minimal money to millions. Unfortunately, this is a symptom from these types of parasocial relationships. You see it everywhere now, especially Youtube/Twitch/etc. - OF is also notorious for third parties running the model's page in terms of spamming sales/faking messages. However, you also got to imagine - when a girl has 10k subscribers - there is no fucking way she will be able to reply to all of them.

Another thing I will never understand...

That and when you hear headlines mentioning this girl made 1 million on OF - you can imagine there are thousands of women reading that and saying I could probably do that too!

From a neutral perspective, I totally understand that. As a hardcore porn consumer, I have to be as selfish as fuck, so I boycott this totally.

[isis666xxx]

That´s why I support pirating OF content or content of similar plattforms. Furthermore, I dont support any of my favs if they switch to OF. They die for me in this moment. No shootings for AV or other hardcore studios = no support.

yikes

[isis666xxx]

That´s why I support pirating OF content or content of similar plattforms. Furthermore, I dont support any of my favs if they switch to OF. They die for me in this moment. No shootings for AV or other hardcore studios = no support.

what about webcam girls??? do they die for you too if they do webcams too???

cuz webcams have low quality more or less like OF, low quality compared to studios

[zeusanalfreak299]

what about webcam girls??? do they die for you too if they do webcams too???

Yes, if they dont do hard sex with professional actors, they are worthless to me. Also models like Hotkinkyjo. It´s so fucking annoying to see that she is still shooting self-fisting and dildo scens again and again. Even if her toys are huge, it´s a waste of potential. I´m for everything or nothing!

cuz webcams have low quality more or less like OF, low quality compared to studios

This and the fact that most is filmed from one camera angle or a POV perspective. I dont like that.

[nilis]

Just a quick google and the numbers have never been better for the porn industry.
Analvids went for the extremes and while doing so priced themselfves out of most people reach.

What a pleasant surprise to see so many good points being made - this one, for instance, assessing the situation Analvid studios find themselves in. To which I'll add that, in my view, they've upscaled their business to a scale that's too difficult to sustain both in terms of quality and price, especially in the state of today's porn production, fast-changing world economy and the challenges OF-like platforms poses to their model. With the pressure to release niche, hardcore scenes at a fast rate while keeping their roster full of fan favourites and adding new faces, one could argue that users' complaints are only set to make even more noise in the following months.

I do believe AV could find a way in the short term, though, given the overall quality of their production and how unique their scenes are to a very particular audience.

[sumacs3]

She won't be doing mainstream porn anymore with the usual studios since the real money isn't there. . . . She's starting an OF for the first time and will only be working with her husband.

This is something I will never understand.
Because I´m a different type of consumer.
I watch porn because I like hardcore fucking like threesomes,
gangbangs with cocks bigger than average.
And then there are others, who just want to see the model,
doesnt matter if the content is soft, or if she is fucked by a normal guy with an average cock...
This is so fucking confusing for me.... its really sad!

Hi, zeusanalfreak299,

I think there may be 3 common ways of categorizing porn:

1. Based on Activities - and lots of them! - your kind of thing - classic porn
2. Based on Anatomy - the big ass, the big boobs, curviness, the perfect face
3. Based on the Model - her overall look and personality or attitude

I think it is all a matter of taste (or lack thereof lol). They say Attraction Isn't A Choice. We simply have these hard-wired preferences. I see how it is an issue for you when your main interest is in lively and wild action, and then the models mysteriously switch to tamer stuff. Girls really do love to have much more control over what they participate in, and OF offers that. Myself, I prefer to watch the scenes of a particular model, rather than of a particular mating activity, largely because I have a face fetish, so I prefer the same face (and voice) each time.

I also think of a familiar model as an old friend, a friend with benefits. I collect adult DVDs of favorite models, mainly for their cute faces in various states of joy. I rarely collect DVDs based on activities, but I understand how some activities can be super exciting. I do love to watch a BBC taking a creamy-skinned phat ass. Think Lex with Samantha Stylle in Heavy Metal 2, but it helped that I thought she had a cute face. Hope this takes away some of your confusion.

[dap-addict]

Just a quick google and the numbers have never been better for the porn industry.
Analvids went for the extremes and while doing so priced themselfves out of most people reach.

What a pleasant surprise to see so many good points being made - this one, for instance, assessing the situation Analvid studios find themselves in. To which I'll add that, in my view, they've upscaled their business to a scale that's too difficult to sustain both in terms of quality and price, especially in the state of today's porn production, fast-changing world economy and the challenges OF-like platforms poses to their model. With the pressure to release niche, hardcore scenes at a fast rate while keeping their roster full of fan favourites and adding new faces...

Looks like since a week or so they try to reduce core LP studio scenes, so that the studios dont canibalize themselves - since many users fellow many more than just 1 girl and/or 1 fetish/sex act.
Now 2 core LP scenes seem the set to offer. That might actually help selling more items again. It's not good for heavy users like me who are ready to buy also 3-4 scenes per day if it fits their requirements, but most users would probably rather buy 1 or less scent per day.

I recently checked some main GIO actresses and all of them so far seem to have sold much worse in 2023 than 2 years earlier before that extreme ticket devaluation of 35% at once in April 2022. Generally if you list a given pretty prolific girl with a career of 3+ years for a long standing studio you see a dwindling sales rank year by year.
Now they can compensate less sales by higher prices ofc, but if GIO really lost a sex digit number of $$$ in 2023 then it's far too little meanwhile.

A next TKT devaluation round wont be a solution I guess, although that 3h Rebel Rhyder scene and the 22,5TKT for it might be another testing round to find out how much users are prepared to pay for 1 video. So far it seems the few 17+ TKT scenes @ GIO didnt rank worse than the usual 11-13,5 TKT scenes.
OF, cam and pirating are a pest ofc, but traditional porn productions like GIO or now sadly defunct Gonzo would rather need to safe costs than rise prices further in 2024. One way is import from Colombia and Brazil, another would be performance fee reductions in EU, but here again - like with TKT price rise - not much seems possible anymore. Fees were already reduced slightly for most girls in second half of 2023, a further reduction could easily drive even more to OF and other jobs only.
Also for 20 or so years a rule of thumb was 1 DP (until about 2015) / 1 DAP (2015ff) should equal the average monthly income in Czech Rep. To try paying girls less for 1 DAP nowadays, i.e around 1k $ only, will hardly work in the long run, even if fees look like they became very high.


Btw, in the early days (of 2013-15 or so) they listed not only the views, but also the number downloads per scene. Does anybody remember some of these numbers still, ideally for a than pretty popular girl?

[Jocke]

I don't want more scenes, I want better scenes. One or two per week is fine if they are worthy of rewatching. My favorite 100 scenes I have watched more than five times each which means cost per view is low.

I hesitated to buy Rebel's three hour scene, not because it is expensive but because of no ATOGM, no pissing between girls, no triple stacking etc... Yes, my favorite rant, single girl scenes becomes boring after ten minutes let alone three hours.

If you let John Price fuck three girls with lots of intergirl action and mutual pissing, I will pay 20tkts even if it is just one hour scene.

This is a 20tkt scene:
Triple Stacked Pee, Avery Jane, Giada Sgh, Yessica Bunny VS 1BWC, Anal Fisting, ATOGM, Gapes, Pee Drink, Cum in Mouth GL723
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/96148

[Jocke]

But it doesn't cost 20tkts.

[deerenbung]

But it doesn't cost 20tkts.

They're not saying it costs 20tkt, they're saying it's worth 20tkt to them.

The issue is everyone's got a different opinion on what a scene worth a lot more than your average one looks like. Some people are looking for a specific model, or at least a specific body type. Others want more guys than girls, while others want more girls than guys. And then of course you've got people who want DAP 0% pussy, people who want DVP, people who want puke, piss, rosebuds, people who refuse to watch scenes with puke, piss, rosebuds, etc etc.

Worst of all is once you find a setup that does work and a lot of people are willing to pay above normal price for it, you can't just keep repeating it because then people will get bored and (continue to) come to the forums asking why we get the same scenes with the same models released week after week.

[deerenbung]

Oops I only just saw you were replying to yourself and it was a rhetorical point

My bad!

[sumacs3]

The issue is everyone's got a different opinion on what a scene worth a lot more than your average one looks like. Some people are looking for a specific model, or at least a specific body type. Others want more guys than girls, while others want more girls than guys. And then of course you've got people who want DAP 0% pussy, people who want DVP, people who want puke, piss, rosebuds, people who refuse to watch scenes with puke, piss, rosebuds, etc etc.

Thanks. This is all very true. And I am not trying to single out anyone here (including myself) in this thread. But, even though I am no moderator, I think we are a bit off topic at this point. We need to talk about the issue of piracy again.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

I love the porn at LPAV, and in particular at GIO studios, Yummy, LTP, NTP, Mambo Perv etc...whilst I am aware of pirate sites where I can get the scenes for free, I would never do so.

I want to support the business and the girls, so would never freeload and take advantage of the pirate sites.

However, I do know that for many - they are not willing to spend any money on this kind of premium porn...and as such, I do not consider them to be true porn fans.
True porn fans will support the girls, encourage the girls, praise and reward the girls, give positive/constructively critical comments, and most importantly PAY to keep the girls in the business and performing.

[Jocke]

Oops I only just saw you were replying to yourself and it was a rhetorical point

My bad!

No problem and your points are valid. What is a high price or high value is individual.
While it is not 100% on-topic I still think prices and price models are important for fighting piracy and finding a viable business model. Really high value scenes you want to own, not just watch on a pirate site before it is taken down. However there is a limit to how many you can afford. I think it is a wise decision to reduce the volume and focus on novelty, well captured photo and enthusiastic performers. Worn out directors, camera men and performers who do another 7 on 1, just isn't great porn.

I have tried to provide innovative ideas, but it seems like there is not that high interest in feedback. I cannot understand why if you are producing several scenes a week, why wouldn't you be interested in testing something different?

[deerenbung]

One of the main reasons people pirate is because it's difficult or inconvenient to pay for it. You see this with DRM protected media, with TV shows and movies being split across 80 streaming services (some of which now have ads), and with abandonware.

The thing is, I think LPAV already does a great job avoiding the pitfalls other services have here. Not requiring a subscription and letting you permanently buy individual scenes is fantastic. I've never been subbed to a membership site for more than a few months because even though you get way better value for money than LPAV in terms of number of scenes, the actual variety in content tends to be pretty low.

Here though I can search through different combinations of tags to see what's out there, and view a trailer for every single scene. That makes me really confident I'm going to get something worth paying for and so I'm happy to fork some money over. Membership sites you're never certain what's hidden behind the paywall - even things like when they last updated are difficult to find.

All that to say, if there has been an uptick in piracy recently (and I'm not convinced there has been) it's got to be people being priced out of buying. I'm not aware of any other sites suddenly becoming more consumer friendly which could be raising the bar there.

[sumacs3]

I rarely visit a random smaller paysite to see what is there.
I have almost always gotten introduced to a particular model through a non-paysite's presentation of her.
One site, xv*****, has recently been integrating the free content with the paysite that made the content.
One example, although the paysite is now defunct, was the lesbian paysite straponcum.

Initially, the pirate site had lower-quality full or partial versions of the scenes.
More recently, the pirate site added the ability to directly access the paysite to get the videos.
So the pirate site was basically advertising the paysite directly.
This is obviously an improvement.

I think the straponcum site went defunct because they had stopped updating.
There is a sister site called straplez that does update.

[davebowman]

While it is not 100% on-topic I still think prices and price models are important for fighting piracy and finding a viable business model. Really high value scenes you want to own, not just watch on a pirate site before it is taken down. However there is a limit to how many you can afford.

I agree that the price is important. Some people just have the mindset that they are going to pirate no matter what, and never pay for anything. But if you offer scenes at an attractive price, and make it easy to buy on a well designed platform (and here I'm not sure AnalVids is doing great, with the general confusion for newbies around paying for scenes with tickets etc), You have to make the experience of buying porn easier and with less hassle than it is to simply pirate it, and that customers know that they will be getting great customer support via an official site, and that they won't be struggling to download it, or that the video they bought will suddenly vanish at some point without announcement when it's deleted from the platform.

I'll be honest -there was a period in my younger days when I pirated porn simply because I literally couldn't afford it. I wasn't earning a huge wage at the start of my career, and all my cash was going on essentials like rent, food, bills. Now I'm only and I have a bit of disposable income I'm happy to pay for porn and support the actors and studios, but even here I'm at the stage where most recent scenes from a studio like Giorgio have gone beyond what I'm willing to pay - the price is just too high. I don't mean I'm pirating these scenes either, I'm just buying other cheaper scenes that still perform the function of getting me off elsewhere. If I was super rich and had endless disposable income, I probably wouldn't look at the price at all.

The current technology for stopping piracy (those big yellow blocks that flash all over the screen), clearly don't work, and I still see these scenes being pirated all over the place as soon as they are released. Pirates are always going to be there, so I think studios need to try and tempt back those who can afford to pay fpor porn, and make them WANT to support the studios. We've seen that lots of people are willing to pay through the nose through OF, because they think they are directly supporting the model - is there some way AnalVid can harness this mindsset?

I've spoken before about the possibility of maybe studios sharing royalties with the models, so that the girl will be invested and promote the scene themselves all over social media. Girls often seem to be happy to collaborate for free with other models to create a scene and share the profits - I'm not sure if the studios can somehow get in on that process and get the initial costs down. Another suggestion would be that the studios themselves have to do a much better job at PR - instead of being faceless and just posting trailers, put a personality out there on social media, win customers over to your brand, explain how those paying are supporting scenes getting made, and get people wanting to support you. It is one of those odd things that a lot of pirates seem to like supporting models with actual money (either on OF or cam),yet are quite happy to shaft over studios - I suspect a lot of them think of them as huge faceless corporations, rather than the people responsible for the scene getting made in the first place.

[dap-addict]

However, I do know that for many - they are not willing to spend any money on this kind of premium porn...and as such, I do not consider them to be true porn fans.
True porn fans will support the girls, encourage the girls, praise and reward the girls, give positive/constructively critical comments, and most importantly PAY to keep the girls in the business and performing.

+ 1

While it is not 100% on-topic I still think prices and price models are important for fighting piracy and finding a viable business model. Really high value scenes you want to own, not just watch on a pirate site before it is taken down. However there is a limit to how many you can afford.

I've spoken before about the possibility of maybe studios sharing royalties with the models, so that the girl will be invested and promote the scene themselves all over social media. (...) Another suggestion would be that the studios themselves have to do a much better job at PR - instead of being faceless and just posting trailers, put a personality out there on social media, win customers over to your brand, explain how those paying are supporting scenes getting made, and get people wanting to support you.

I think it's crucial for studios to create a feeling of loyality between producers, fans and girls. Giorgio Grandi does a good job here on forum with that, not so good on social media, though. xxx, Luis and Omar in turn did do a pretty bad job in creating loyalty with Gonzo in these terms and its one of the reasons gonzo died.
Mambo / Oscar Batty does a good job as well, but too many studios are indeed just faceless.

As for the girls there needs to be an incentive to communicate with fans and thus also create more loyalty, but a business model of profit participation has yet to be found. For girls it's easier to have a base loyalty, while lots of porn users tend still to think of studios as of exploiters and rich guys. It's kind a christian guilt culture PC thinking, while in fact a pro porn approach would see everybody in the biz in the same boat and users/fans with them.

[Jocke]

Lots of great input guys!
Yes, making the studios as well as the performers better known and easier to relate to would help both attractivity and loyalty for sure.

[dap-addict]

Also a return to GIO roots - of around GIO200 scenes - with mini-interviews at the end of the scene would help create a more personal feeling and thus create more loyalty.

Maybe Andrey isnt the right person to do that @ GIO, but some assistent could do it if Giorgio himself isnt in studio. Also it hasn't to be in each scene, but a decent part of them.

With other studios some directors like Oscar already do it, at least in the start. Important is to get something authentic and not fully scripted.

[zeusanalfreak299]

She won't be doing mainstream porn anymore with the usual studios since the real money isn't there. . . . She's starting an OF for the first time and will only be working with her husband.

This is something I will never understand.
Because I´m a different type of consumer.
I watch porn because I like hardcore fucking like threesomes,
gangbangs with cocks bigger than average.
And then there are others, who just want to see the model,
doesnt matter if the content is soft, or if she is fucked by a normal guy with an average cock...
This is so fucking confusing for me.... its really sad!

Hi, zeusanalfreak299,

I think there may be 3 common ways of categorizing porn:

1. Based on Activities - and lots of them! - your kind of thing - classic porn
2. Based on Anatomy - the big ass, the big boobs, curviness, the perfect face
3. Based on the Model - her overall look and personality or attitude

I think it is all a matter of taste (or lack thereof lol). They say Attraction Isn't A Choice. We simply have these hard-wired preferences. I see how it is an issue for you when your main interest is in lively and wild action, and then the models mysteriously switch to tamer stuff. Girls really do love to have much more control over what they participate in, and OF offers that. Myself, I prefer to watch the scenes of a particular model, rather than of a particular mating activity, largely because I have a face fetish, so I prefer the same face (and voice) each time.

I also think of a familiar model as an old friend, a friend with benefits. I collect adult DVDs of favorite models, mainly for their cute faces in various states of joy. I rarely collect DVDs based on activities, but I understand how some activities can be super exciting. I do love to watch a BBC taking a creamy-skinned phat ass. Think Lex with Samantha Stylle in Heavy Metal 2, but it helped that I thought she had a cute face. Hope this takes away some of your confusion.

Sure but I will never understand that. Because of this consumer behaviour extreme porn will die if soft porn is due to a face fetish like yours "enough" for guys like you. Also because of the fact that guys like you think you have control or can be closer to a model on OF. It's pretty rational. They don't have to do a lot hardcore stuff in the long-term.

[sumacs3]

Sure but I will never understand that. Because of this consumer behaviour extreme porn will die if soft porn is due to a face fetish like yours "enough" for guys like you. Also because of the fact that guys like you think you have control or can be closer to a model on OF. It's pretty rational. They don't have to do a lot hardcore stuff in the long-term.

I myself do not "understand" all the guys with a foot fetish, but I just accept that it gets them horny. I have seen a few OF models say Where are my Feet People? The good news is that someone like me is quite rare, and even the foot fetish thing is not the majority of guys. There is plenty of room for hard porn, but I think the real problem is as you say that they don't have to do a lot of hardcore stuff anymore to make a fair amount of money, and guys like us make it less likely.

All that said, I remember when I was at the site Matt's Models, and Matt was saying how he could not understand why a few of his models would out of the blue ask him about setting up a gangbang scene. They wanted the adventure. Girls just wanna have fun. For me, the real pain is how so much of porn has switched from download to streaming only. I like to play with scenes and zoom in on favorite parts, etc. But, yes, unless studios offer a lot more money, you might be past the glory days for some of your stuff, unless it is perceived as a new rarity. Thanks.

[deerenbung]

I think studios need to try and tempt back those who can afford to pay fpor porn, and make them WANT to support the studios. We've seen that lots of people are willing to pay through the nose through OF, because they think they are directly supporting the model - is there some way AnalVid can harness this mindsset?

Sheer appears to be their answer to this, but ironically it's both too separate from and too integrated with the main AnalVids site. All anyone who uses AnalVids sees of Sheer is a huge number of short, expensive, amateur videos clogging up their feed; not at all what they come to AV for. Meanwhile they're missing out on any personal stuff the models might be sharing on Sheer which will build this closeness.
In my opinion models who shoot for AV's studios need to have their personal pages promoted on the main AV site somehow, ideally not just by adding more junk to the new scenes page.

It is one of those odd things that a lot of pirates seem to like supporting models with actual money (either on OF or cam),yet are quite happy to shaft over studios - I suspect a lot of them think of them as huge faceless corporations, rather than the people responsible for the scene getting made in the first place.

Speaking as someone who was also not in a position to afford porn as a young adult and resorted to piracy, I always avoided getting anything from indie models for exactly this reason (though since this was pre-OF there was far less paid indie porn floating around anyway). Seeing studio porn as a product of the girls rather than a faceless business will certainly sway some pirates towards paying, only time and experience will show if it's a significant number.

I've spoken before about the possibility of maybe studios sharing royalties with the models, so that the girl will be invested and promote the scene themselves all over social media. Girls often seem to be happy to collaborate for free with other models to create a scene and share the profits.

100%. I can understand the reluctance of studios to try this out but with how insanely lucrative the OF model is for stars who can build a following, getting them invested in a studio is essential. And when I say invested, I mean properly invested. I've mentioned before that if we want great scenes and talented models who keep coming back the studios need to convince them porn is a career rather than just a job. Most girls will probably want to stay independent but others could want to join and bring their experience in front of the camera to behind it.
Look at the success Proxy Paige and Natasha Teen have had directing, and imagine if studios were encouraging that. By keeping the girls close over a long period with profit shares on videos they could spot those whose talents go beyond looking good getting fucked.
Even outside of moving to steady behind the scenes work, I'm sure there are girls who would rather not have to run an OF (and the half dozen OF clones out there) but can't turn down the relatively easy money. Being able to pass on the admin, customer service etc. to the studio could be well worth it to some if the studio is offering decent profit share. Driving fans of specific models to studios rather than independent OF pages will keep studios thriving and extreme porn alive.

[Christopher_Williams1]

Piracy has been around for a long time. Best case scenario, if there is high demand for something, the business still stands to benefit greatly as we can expect 70% of honest people of a large demand number to buy. Also, the reason why I pay for porn, is because I want to provide an incentive for creators to continue releasing porn. We, the 70%, understand that. Most businesses deal with theft. That includes Amazon, brick-n-mortar stores, software companies, and etc. We can agree that they are still doing well. My main point though, is that it's just part of doing business with a product that a lot of people like.

I do believe that Pornbox studios deal with piracy worse than other studios. I'm a fan of Dredd's content but I would be lying if I said I paid to see all of the videos of him performing with big-name chicks. People complain here about high ticket prices. Wait until you see how much he sells a video for. I digressed. I brought him up though because his pirated videos are taken down within 24 hours. I don't know how he's so effectively, but maybe the main studios can do research to try to replicate the same level of success that Dredd is doing.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Dredd content piracy effect is miniscule. And it's not an apple-to-apple comparison as Pornbox has a much larger audience and unfortunately an army of people on standby for posting the content on the web. But anecdotally, it appears that the stuff isn't being taken down from the web, like at all. But would the cost of attacking piracy be worth the time?

And finally, yes I admitted that while I do spend a lot of money a year to help support actresses, there are times, sadly, that I watch a video on the dark web and then go back to compensate them months later, if they are lucky.

[sumacs3]

Lots of good discussions here.

One newer trend that could lead to piracy is when a site later reduces the resolution of its older videos. Some sites, like Br*zzers, have often reduced their bit rates on their videos, such that what is floating around may be of higher quality than what is available at the site. Also, sometimes they remove parts of a video that are not PC enough. For instance, in the scene The Slutmother, with Kelly Divine, they greatly reduced the length of the video when they removed the rougher stuff.

Some other scenes were completely removed, but continue to float around. Call me a bad boy, but I have sometimes purchased an old scene that had been at a defunct site after I had no luck figuring out who might "lawfully" want to sell me a copy. I think Nina Hartley has said that most people think of porn as disposable, whereas someone like me, who collects scenes of favorite models, does not see it that way.

One example, I really like model Sophie Strauss. She was at a site called Bellezzavideo, but the site was discontinued several years ago and I did not know about its existence. They offered her scenes at 720, but the related DVDs, which were still available, were at 480. So I joined Amber Chase's OF, because research indicated that she had purchased the rights to the Bellezza videos. I offered her $75 for the original 720 of one of her scenes, and she sent it. But if the scene had been "scrapped," I would not feel guilty if it magically resurfaced and no one cared about it.

[patosucio]

"However, I do know that for many - they are not willing to spend any money on this kind of premium porn...and as such, I do not consider them to be true porn fans.
True porn fans will support the girls, encourage the girls, praise and reward the girls, give positive/constructively critical comments, and most importantly PAY to keep the girls in the business and performing." -xxxVIPERxxx

I agree with this 100%. It's a virtuous circle - if fans support the work that they like (both with money and love), the people that make the work will feel that what they're doing is worthwhile, and that will show up in the quality and enthusiasm of their subsequent work - which will lead to continued fan support, and so on and so on.

I actually discovered AV (or rather, the seeds of talent that would go on to create AV - iirc, the name LP wasn't even being used yet...) through a torrent site years ago. I loved it, and started following. When I eventually got to a point in my life where I had the income to actually pay for the content, I did, and I continue to this day, because I value it.

I remember there were a few scenes I downloaded several years ago that had a message at the end of them - thanks for watching, and if you can afford to pay for this, please do so, so that we can afford to continue creating this great content....I was broke AF at the time, but the message stuck with me, and I knew if I ever came into the money to support AV, I would do so. and here I am