The End of Legalporno?

[backflipman]

There is much more to it than just the analvids distribution for the scenes. The tkt-system is quite unique though. There is also xvideos red where you can directly purchase scenes for your currency. Lately i found out there is also xnxx gold also a former tube-site that acts as a clone for xvideos red also with a subscription and the ability to directly purchase scenes. Then ultimately you can just use your analvids account to directly log-in on sheer, at least if you have or had an active subscription to analvids.
I just checked and compared the price for a today released scene. Here it costs 9.01 tkt on sheer it costs 9.14€ or exactly 10.00§. Prices on red and xnxx gold are basically the same, but the videos come tubesite compressed with a lower bitrate meaning lower video quality.

If it is just about purchasing the most recent scenes for the lowest price at the best quality members are best off with the monthly subscription here. You get roughly 1.5 tkt for 1 €/$ and the scenes costs less tkt than actual €/$ of direct purchase.
Yet I believe xvids has the most traffic, most subscriptions and is a large portion of the sales and I believe there are fewer direct purchases from xnxx and sheer. Not sure how analvids competes to it but given the price/value video quality it should be the most popular.

I would also be curious what average sales of the big studio scenes are, but I believe they come nowhere close to 7000 overall and especially not on analvids exclusively. Ultimately there is the limit of people who have a membership/account and are willing to pay for porn. There doesn't seem to be much effort to attract more customers to the site, but I am not sure if that is even possible. (maybe with some US rising star models) or new models in general. Different models can attract different customers and a new girl might be the trigger to "I need to buy that scene with that girl so I create a membership" - rarely happens on the 200th scene of the same model.
Same may also apply to male performer with exceptional attributes.

Generally as it is now if you have for example a fixed number of 1000 potential customers. You have to a) make the scene as attractive as possible (this is where most currently already fail) b) make the scene have the right price, if 500 people buy for 8 tkt but would also have bought for 12 tkt you lose money. If 500 people buy for 6 tkt but only 200 for 9 tkt, you also lose money. Then c) increase the number of potential customers by extraordinary content (not the most extreme, but the best when it comes to what people are actually interested in and the mainstream isn't interested in extremes).

To me new girls doing a first scene WITH vaginal and anal penetration, second scene with first dp then first gangbang and then first dap, shot in the right way would be good enough, but please with a big dick male performer who can actually fuck and isn't annoying (Mike Chapman, Dylan Brown, Yves Morgan and any mediocre white dick are already disqualified and thats like 90% of the male roster across all studios already, not to forget the small russian black cocks of like erika korti), then there should just be a couple of positions like Doggy, Face down ass up, Reverse Cowgirl, the missionary with legs up filmed from underneath and the girl showing her gaping ass after good sex in those positions.

But all of this is just the customers or even more my individual point of view. I don't know if studios are actually happy with their sales and the stuff they produce. I wonder how Gio stays motivated shooting the same stuff with the same performers over and over again. He probably would like to have more new female performers and bigger cock new male performers, but he can't just pull them out of the hat. Same for Gonzo (who in my opinion don't focus on gapes at all lately). There is no agency or recruiting background these producers can rely on I think and doing this while doing all the other stuff or paying someone to do that while you have to handle expenses all on your own is just a very limiting factor.

The owner of these sites does little to nothing, but offering the platform and maybe have some webmasters that deal with technical issues, but most is probably automated across all these sites and there is little to no quality control, probably little to none support for the producers that earns the owner their money.
There is so much that could be improved, but it is already a self-sustaining system so there is no need to do so. Unless studios or customers are unhappy and take actions. Maybe I am just too critical, maybe I have too high expectations. But it feels like there is so much potential wasted everywhere in this system.

[Giorgio Grandi]

90% of revenue is basically 100% of the incoming (10% to cover payment processor fees and server is nothing)

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

So, the question is: a scene that cost 1/3 will sell 3 time more than priced at 1?
We will know the answer in the next days

My experience tells me NO, but on the other side the market changes so fast that is worth to try
--
Said that: it doesnt matter how much cost a scene, it matters how much it generates.
To be honest, if a model get paid 500$ for a scene, I wish to have a net profit on that scene for 500$. The point is that in general it is not like this. On same scene I lose money, on same I gain more than what I paid the model: so we technically have models that pay for the others. This is why a lifetime revenue-share on profit is more equal. Scenes with high turnover will give to the model high incoming and when a scene has low turnover, the model will gain much less.
Some models will refuse to work as they do not have a guarantee payout (they can work for other studios), but on the other hand I think this will energize the content

The main point, back to the first part of this message, is set a price for the users that makes sense.

[backflipman]

I would also expect to have the price of a scene have much impact on the sales. If everything in a scene is appealing to a customer willing to pay he will buy it for 14tkt as well and just a few people will buy it just because it is cheaper. But you will have the numbers, maybe sales will be around 10-20% higher, but thats just a wild guess.

Producers can focus and just creating scenes and uploading scenes to get money, while everything else (servers,webmastering,payment,technical support) is handled by the site owner, which is an advantage I have missed. Yet I believe an own agency or model recruiting team, that doesn't work with shady business would be nice to have and benefit a lot of studios and models who would like to enter or try the industry a lot. Low barrier entry, honest and transparent business, where the models don't have to worry or be afraid to be misguided. And of course easy to find and easy to access. Or is the way model recruiting is done nowadays already the best solution and there just aren't enough potential models or at least not for the typen of content produced here? Maybe models would be more encouraged if stuff was more basic in the beginning and they can decide whether they want to try more.

Yeah there are ups and downs and people try to improve and change stuff and will make great improvements or find out what was best 10 years ago is still the best today. I doubt "LPAV" is dying, maybe some studios will, maybe some new studios start, some studios overthink their production. I believe the porn business is like Gio already said himself before, it's like evolution - adapt or die.

[YuriyProneBone]

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

The problem with this test is that it is very short sighted short term. Even if selling it more expensive becomes more profitable, even if that happens, you are still shooting yourself in the foot for not seeing the bigger picture.

The people that are willing to pay higher prices for your content will be porn addicts that are fans of your work, out of those, the ones that are not so bought in will consider only buying a girl they already like or that has hype around her, and won't buy anything else, and then the others will stop buying because the prices are just plain ridiculous.

For example me. I was OK with buying a 7 on 1 scene with Ria Sunn for 10 tickets, but once you go 15 tickets I was out, no more for me. It was difficult to go from 5 tickets to 10, and it was already feeling unfair, but because addiction I managed to be OK with 10 because is a BBC gangbang with a top girl.

When gangbangs were 5 tickets I use to buy scenes with girls that the girls felt like 6s, but with 10 tickets she at least needs to be an 8 or above, with 15 tickets even if she is a 10 you feel treated so unfairly that you look elsewhere instead.

So basically you lose some costumers every time you increase price, you also lose sales from videos you could probably sale more if you were careful to seed good faith in your costumers. But instead with these experiments all you do is create a bad feeling, bad faith, a lack of trust, and disgust, so it becomes harder and harder to support.

You also have to consider that it takes time for people to wake up, initially because they are fans of the girl or whatever someone may still support but overtime when they see there are more fair options elsewhere even if they are not necessarily the same type of content, they will start falling out, so some will go sooner or later, it just takes longer.

On top of that the front door becomes higher to reach, so the new costumers will be harder to grow and the rate you expect with these business long term, so you are hurting your growing power significantly which you never get to see because you never allowed it to happen. So even if there is growth, it will not represent what could.

This type of self sabotage is usually because you are likely not used to certain levels of success, so as soon as you start to see a possibility to charge more, you do and self sabotage your growth long term. Growth is not a straight line, it's zic zac, and that's why patience is important. In this case by increasing the price and limiting growth opportunities because you have barriers of success.

So instead of earning 279 billion per year like Toyota you are happy making 5 billion like Ferrari, but that's your prerogative. But that takes time and that's why most people can never make 279 billion in a year.

This is why these experiments so shortsighted so inpatient, so looking at the month pictures not the years pictures of growth limits you to stay relative the same with your earnings over time, with a very small margin of growth.

The biggest companies with the biggest amounts of revenue are trying to go down to zero as much as they can because in the AI world we are heading attention is the most important asset, so growing is prioritized.

[YumYum74]

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

The problem with this test is that it is very short sighted short term. Even if selling it more expensive becomes more profitable, even if that happens, you are still shooting yourself in the foot for not seeing the bigger picture.

The people that are willing to pay higher prices for your content will be porn addicts that are fans of your work, out of those, the ones that are not so bought in will consider only buying a girl they already like or that has hype around her, and won't buy anything else, and then the others will stop buying because the prices are just plain ridiculous.

For example me. I was OK with buying a 7 on 1 scene with Ria Sunn for 10 tickets, but once you go 15 tickets I was out, no more for me. It was difficult to go from 5 tickets to 10, and it was already feeling unfair, but because addiction I managed to be OK with 10 because is a BBC gangbang with a top girl.

When gangbangs were 5 tickets I use to buy scenes with girls that the girls felt like 6s, but with 10 tickets she at least needs to be an 8 or above, with 15 tickets even if she is a 10 you feel treated so unfairly that you look elsewhere instead.

So basically you lose some costumers every time you increase price, you also lose sales from videos you could probably sale more if you were careful to seed good faith in your costumers. But instead with these experiments all you do is create a bad feeling, bad faith, a lack of trust, and disgust, so it becomes harder and harder to support.

This is my first post in almost four months. I still browse this forum, but the fun in posting here went away partly (but certainly not exclusively) due to the excessive price hikes over the last two years.

My reason for posting this is the first part of Yuriy's post which I've quoted above. It describes me almost to a T, and I have little doubt there are a lot more people like that. I went from buying 3-4 scenes every day (I'm probably an outlier in that regard but hear me out) to carefully perusing what's on offer and buying just once a month from a ticket package of 250 tickets. I almost exclusively buy from Erika Korti these days. She still gives me gangbangs, hot girls and reasonable prices. For however long that lasts of course, hers is one of the last studios that has fair prices, so once her prices also go the way of the other bigger studios, I'm probably out altogether.

In July I bought a total of 28 scenes, so from 3-4 a day I've gone to less than 1.

I'm not gonna pretend I understand anything about how the porn game works in terms of finances, but I'd still like to give this example, echoing what Yuriy said above. Of the 22 scenes published under the Gio brand in July, before I would have bought around 15 easily. Most are not my favourite models, but I like them well enough to buy their scenes for (in my eyes) reasonable prices. In actuality I bought zero Gio scenes in July. It's just not worth it anymore.

Anyway, no interest in getting too deep into this discussion again (it got me way too angry last year) but I wanted to give my five cents.

[Giorgio Grandi]

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

The problem with this test is that it is very short sighted short term. Even if selling it more expensive becomes more profitable, even if that happens, you are still shooting yourself in the foot for not seeing the bigger picture.

The people that are willing to pay higher prices for your content will be porn addicts that are fans of your work, out of those, the ones that are not so bought in will consider only buying a girl they already like or that has hype around her, and won't buy anything else, and then the others will stop buying because the prices are just plain ridiculous.

For example me. I was OK with buying a 7 on 1 scene with Ria Sunn for 10 tickets, but once you go 15 tickets I was out, no more for me. It was difficult to go from 5 tickets to 10, and it was already feeling unfair, but because addiction I managed to be OK with 10 because is a BBC gangbang with a top girl.

When gangbangs were 5 tickets I use to buy scenes with girls that the girls felt like 6s, but with 10 tickets she at least needs to be an 8 or above, with 15 tickets even if she is a 10 you feel treated so unfairly that you look elsewhere instead.

So basically you lose some costumers every time you increase price, you also lose sales from videos you could probably sale more if you were careful to seed good faith in your costumers. But instead with these experiments all you do is create a bad feeling, bad faith, a lack of trust, and disgust, so it becomes harder and harder to support.

You also have to consider that it takes time for people to wake up, initially because they are fans of the girl or whatever someone may still support but overtime when they see there are more fair options elsewhere even if they are not necessarily the same type of content, they will start falling out, so some will go sooner or later, it just takes longer.

On top of that the front door becomes higher to reach, so the new costumers will be harder to grow and the rate you expect with these business long term, so you are hurting your growing power significantly which you never get to see because you never allowed it to happen. So even if there is growth, it will not represent what could.

This type of self sabotage is usually because you are likely not used to certain levels of success, so as soon as you start to see a possibility to charge more, you do and self sabotage your growth long term. Growth is not a straight line, it's zic zac, and that's why patience is important. In this case by increasing the price and limiting growth opportunities because you have barriers of success.

So instead of earning 279 billion per year like Toyota you are happy making 5 billion like Ferrari, but that's your prerogative. But that takes time and that's why most people can never make 279 billion in a year.

This is why these experiments so shortsighted so inpatient, so looking at the month pictures not the years pictures of growth limits you to stay relative the same with your earnings over time, with a very small margin of growth.

The biggest companies with the biggest amounts of revenue are trying to go down to zero as much as they can because in the AI world we are heading attention is the most important asset, so growing is prioritized.

Some time ago I compared myself to volkswagen and someone in the forum told me I am wrong because I should be a ferrari.
Now you tell me instead I should be a Toyota because is more profitable.

What you write makes sense, but to apply it to porn is a different topic. We dont hire models in the way Toyota hires engineers and workers, we dont have a so big pool where we can fish talents, this is the main issue (and to fish in the pool gets more complicate year by year.

What my experiment can tell us, is the real value of the model/s, I think we can connect it to a lower price with better performance and have interesting data.
The issue is that porn is emotional purchase and when you make an example about yourself, you just make a terrible example totally against the fundamental of porn marketing.

If yesterday I released a scene with model Y at 15$ that has 1000 sales and, next month I will release another scene with the same model, better than the previous one at 5$, the data will be just very simple to analyse.

[YuriyProneBone]

Some time ago I compared myself to volkswagen and someone in the forum told me I am wrong because I should be a ferrari.
Now you tell me instead I should be a Toyota because is more profitable.

What you write makes sense, but to apply it to porn is a different topic. We dont hire models in the way Toyota hires engineers and workers, we dont have a so big pool where we can fish talents, this is the main issue (and to fish in the pool gets more complicate year by year.

What my experiment can tell us, is the real value of the model/s, I think we can connect it to a lower price with better performance and have interesting data.
The issue is that porn is emotional purchase and when you make an example about yourself, you just make a terrible example totally against the fundamental of porn marketing.

If yesterday I released a scene with model Y at 15$ that has 1000 sales and, next month I will release another scene with the same model, better than the previous one at 5$, the data will be just very simple to analyse.

It sounds like are still missing the point, I'm just trying to be fair with you, basically you are focusing only in the short term gains, and with these little experiments, affecting the good faith of your clients, limiting your potential growth, and losing lots of money without even realizing.

So basically even if you "optimize" for short term, the long term losses are not worth it, and the growth is very marginal, small, inconsequential, besides some few bursts, not even close to what could or can, sacrificing clients, and potential new clients.

I recommend reading Steven Covey, to succeed beyond what you have now you need to understand what win/win really means. The problem is that clients don't have the money, we do, the problem is that good faith and fairness will always be more important.

You started this recently, throughout your career you were never this careless, I wonder what happened, how did you lose track.

[marcimilan]

Giorgio you dont need to find New talents only New girls whos down tonshoot porno.

For me its more interesting to see New girls even if they cant do double anal.
.Its enough if they try anal for the first Time.

Girls can improve scene after scene.

I bet theres a lots of beautiful gipsy girls in Czechia.

[backflipman]

With the price discussion there is another thing to consider that came to my mind. While price increases have direct impact and cause members to cancel their subscription or rarely recharge tkt leading to them checking the site less often until they don't check it at all or just sporadically. I myself had a time around 2017-2019 where I can't remember checking the site at all. Maybe many members are in the same state because of the prices and they are basically gone, so they won't even notice if there is a sudden massive price drop on certain scenes of one studio.
If people don't see the scene the first or second day chances get lower and lower that infrequent visitors even discover the scene or notice the price. Even if they look at the scene, they might think "oh it's another Gio scene with Model XY" - I guess Gio will make this experiment with a model he has a good connection and shot many scenes with.
But I guess Gio will mention the lower price in the scene name or star the titel with "DISCOUNT".
For people who are long gone or abandoned the site, mainly due to price policy, it should be a long term and regular experiment. Maybe have it on a fixed day "Monday is Gio discount day" for example, then it will take some time until users will recognize it, but that could be beneficial long term.
This might be an option to tackle losses due to price policy, but I still believe people pay higher prices for the right scene, so there is still other stuff to work on.

[dap-addict]

This is not true. in fact the american girls are still profitable even with high payout: the reason is because american models has mostly american fans, this makes the difference.

Still, lower fees for US-models would render more profits. I'm not sure whether it's true or not, I just wrote what I heard first hand. I actually can imagine it to happen because in a lot of job and payment talks employer actually tries to pay a bit less, especially if they are under economic pressure.

[visigoth2020260]

When Vi was younger, 42nd Street had plenty of pornographic stores.
Before that fuck Giuliani murdered such a magnificent location where pimps, prostitutes, pedlers, drug dealers, 25c peep shows, inflated dolls, xxx theaters, and so many more wonderful places, their heydays were present in every corner and storefront.

This is Vi's tale of one of his several excursions to Pornoland, 42nd Street.


Vi was a marijuana dealer back then. He bought his cannabis from several different sources, and business was booming. He was selling roughly 2 pounds of marijuana per week for $10 per bag, or dime.
He frequently had to sleep on the streets, but those days were over now, thanks to G, his hard work and perseverance (he started his two pounds a week business with just $5), and he no longer wore anything except Guess and Tim Boots.

Vi was hawking his wares in front of the bodega on this particular summer day, and two tall women in spandex were standing by the shop. Their boobs were enormous, and their hair was long and silky black. They were just two stunning Colombian women, and I can still clearly picture their long legs and enormous butts, and high heels.

These monuments threw his plans for the day into tatters.
When night fell, Vi started his stroll down 42nd Street in full pornographic mode.
He boarded the train with his pocket stuffed with cash, arrived at 42nd Street 30 minutes later, and began to walk while being attracted by all the lights on storefronts and the passersby.
It was a sight to behold, so he stops at Burger King and grabs something to eat first.

he starts window shopping, first purchasing a few vintage VHS films from the vintage shops, where the films cost between $3 and $5 each.
then enters the main department stores, where the new releases are, and begins perusing every aisle in search of something that catches his eye or bears even a passing resemblance to the women who brought him here tonight.

Vi would buy a few of these movies, which ranged in price from $9 to $11, but there was another isle that always caught his eye, where the enormous big tities models movies were. However, he never got to buy them because they cost $20 each, and he always preferred to get two gangbang movies for that price instead.
then he would visit the European Hardcore area in search of fisting or the particular aesthetic of European movies, which ranged in price from $7 to 10 dollars, ( Dolly Buster was his favorite EU model ).
He is now cheerfully returning home and loading his VHS tapes into his VCR.

Less individuals, even those with money to burn, will purchase scenes if they are excessively pricey.

but many will buy them, the goal is for everyone to buy them... I like the Rebel trailer.

[MackZatis]

"oh it's another Gio scene with Model XY".

Something I feel GIO overlooked a few years back when he switched to doing wet scenes (which I DO remember he stated many times he HATED) and focusing solely on the MOST profitable scene(s), is that you are SEVERELY limiting potential future growth. If those small number of "scenes", "scenes" meaning general structure/type sex acts (despite the name/series of scene) ect are VERY VERY same'ish aren't your particular "flavor", and those are your only flavors on offer, well then you don't have to be a CPA to see where that goes.
Then after several years, of the same everything (except price) your customer pool starts to evaporate (dry up) because you can only watch the same thing, with the same cast (literally) doing things in the same damn order, before they tune-out. So then you try adding all the things that are most popular into one scene, thinking; that for sure will appeal to the most amount of people. When in reality it can have the opposite effect. It can make the scene incredibly niche, as you would appeal to only those FEW people interested in ALL those fetish's/kinks, not appealing to ALL people interested in any one of those kinks/fetish's. As the end product is often a half baked disconjointed mess of a scene that cannot really focus on any one thing for too long a time, and DOES NOT do any one thing particularly well at all.
Instead, an approach of using your most popular, best selling female stars and feature them in a WIDE VARIETY of different kink/fetish's should be employed (and I'm not talking about the story-line scenes) . Scenes that focus on only a few at a time (1-3), and lets them develop/progress more NATURALLY, instead of formulatic/"checking all the boxes".
With this approach, you should see the benefits of both a shorter term business model, while still getting the longer term growth/appeal to a larger market that is desired.
One last thing;
People (here on the forum, and all over the world) have said they don't mind paying premium price for premium quality. In my many decades on the earth, my experience tells me this is true. The thing is though, there needs to be a PREMIUM product available, and currently there is not.
That is not to offend anyone/studio/director/producer. Especially GIO, even though I can be very outwardly critical of his studios, I am not of him. I value his additions to the forum, and genuinely get excited to read a new post from him (I wish he posted more). His career both in front and behind the camera, successfully I might add, give him unique perspective on the business. His post are always informative and level headed, though often heavily biased....

[MackZatis]

I'm not sure whether it's true or not, I just wrote what I heard first hand. I actually can imagine it to happen because in a lot of job and payment talks employer actually tries to pay a bit less, especially if they are under economic pressure.

First off, employers ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS try pay the least amount possible to reach a desired level of productivity/profit. Regardless of external factors, be it positive or negative.
But my main reason for posting is;
None of what your just wrote make any sense at all, and who you heard that from most certainly does not live in the US either.
If employers are under economic pressure, then so are their employees. Which have no where near the capital/assets. So potential employees are not going to take less money, then have previously. Even more so when EVERYTHING costs more.
Any responsible business is aware of their place in the local economy & national economy of their native country if large enough. And aware of how their decisions/spending affect it. And those that are not responsible, well they're not around long enough for it to matter, or even be remembered....

[dap-addict]

I'm not sure whether it's true or not, I just wrote what I heard first hand. I actually can imagine it to happen because in a lot of job and payment talks employer actually tries to pay a bit less, especially if they are under economic pressure.

First off, employers ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS try pay the least amount possible to reach a desired level of productivity/profit. Regardless of external factors, be it positive or negative.
But my main reason for posting is;
None of what your just wrote make any sense at all....

Not sure I got you right here, Matt:
But it would make perfectly sense to ask an US girl to perform DAP for her 10% or 20% less base rate just to counter and balance your investment as a studio. Because the lower your investment the less you can loose and the more you can gain. A US girl commuting to Prague for porn work in her turn could also ask for more scenes than last time to counter and balance her cheaper base DAP rate. Often US imports do 5-10 DAP scenes, if she does those next time for 10% less but can perform 1-2 DAP more she still ends on a net plus in her income. If for instance you check the most recent scenes of Rebel Rhyder it seems she worked more for the studio than during her last booking.
By this I dont claim it was her who was asked by studio to offer her DAP for less money, it's just an observance makeing sense for me. You have to realize that porn job isnt a 9 to 5 job but freelance work with long work breaks usually. These can be filled with additional scenes ofc. In this case it could be even a win-win for all involved: Girl could earn more $$$ working in EU, studio could lower their investment risk a bit.

Of course this applies only for the more seasoned girls knowing their bodies well enough not to over-work themselves while on porn work tour in EU.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

I think a lot of the scenes are quite good, of course there is always room for improvements...I would say that the only thing that could "END" LPAV is the continually rising and high prices...

[dap-addict]

This is my first post in almost four months. I still browse this forum, but the fun in posting here went away partly (but certainly not exclusively) due to the excessive price hikes over the last two years.

My reason for posting this is the first part of Yuriy's post which I've quoted above. It describes me almost to a T, and I have little doubt there are a lot more people like that. I went from buying 3-4 scenes every day (I'm probably an outlier in that regard but hear me out) to carefully perusing what's on offer (...) In July I bought a total of 28 scenes, so from 3-4 a day I've gone to less than 1.

I think at least for heavy users this sums it up pretty well.
I didnt re-load for 2mt now, just bought 1 scene per week basically. My reasons are multi-layered, though, but price rise again by 10% at GIO made a contribution. So does chaos in pornbox as soon as I stop checking new scenes every day.
It's mainly bad customer policy and disrupted loyalty that is a problem imho, not scene content as such.

[Hustler2000]

I agree with these comments so much

[dap-addict]

With which most?
I ask because main themes are price rise, piss and other 'extreme' fetish acts, lack of teen-early teen girls and pornbox landing page chaos.

[misangrenegra2]

The new release of Anna with Kaitlyn has broken a new record... 17'XX TKTs... If the Gio's explanation of change the price between top girls and more newbies means sell more expensive the scenes with top girls (and the same price? with the others...), we have serious troubles.

[dap-addict]

To me it just looks like a test balloon for US fans, just measure how much they are willing to pay. Especially Kaithlyn seems to have this kind of fans just running after whatever gag she gets into. Problem might only turn up for seasoned LP consumers and EU based users.

[xxxEVOxxx]

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

The problem with this test is that it is very short sighted short term. Even if selling it more expensive becomes more profitable, even if that happens, you are still shooting yourself in the foot for not seeing the bigger picture.

The people that are willing to pay higher prices for your content will be porn addicts that are fans of your work, out of those, the ones that are not so bought in will consider only buying a girl they already like or that has hype around her, and won't buy anything else, and then the others will stop buying because the prices are just plain ridiculous.

For example me. I was OK with buying a 7 on 1 scene with Ria Sunn for 10 tickets, but once you go 15 tickets I was out, no more for me. It was difficult to go from 5 tickets to 10, and it was already feeling unfair, but because addiction I managed to be OK with 10 because is a BBC gangbang with a top girl.

When gangbangs were 5 tickets I use to buy scenes with girls that the girls felt like 6s, but with 10 tickets she at least needs to be an 8 or above, with 15 tickets even if she is a 10 you feel treated so unfairly that you look elsewhere instead.

So basically you lose some costumers every time you increase price, you also lose sales from videos you could probably sale more if you were careful to seed good faith in your costumers. But instead with these experiments all you do is create a bad feeling, bad faith, a lack of trust, and disgust, so it becomes harder and harder to support.

You also have to consider that it takes time for people to wake up, initially because they are fans of the girl or whatever someone may still support but overtime when they see there are more fair options elsewhere even if they are not necessarily the same type of content, they will start falling out, so some will go sooner or later, it just takes longer.

On top of that the front door becomes higher to reach, so the new costumers will be harder to grow and the rate you expect with these business long term, so you are hurting your growing power significantly which you never get to see because you never allowed it to happen. So even if there is growth, it will not represent what could.

This type of self sabotage is usually because you are likely not used to certain levels of success, so as soon as you start to see a possibility to charge more, you do and self sabotage your growth long term. Growth is not a straight line, it's zic zac, and that's why patience is important. In this case by increasing the price and limiting growth opportunities because you have barriers of success.

So instead of earning 279 billion per year like Toyota you are happy making 5 billion like Ferrari, but that's your prerogative. But that takes time and that's why most people can never make 279 billion in a year.

This is why these experiments so shortsighted so inpatient, so looking at the month pictures not the years pictures of growth limits you to stay relative the same with your earnings over time, with a very small margin of growth.

The biggest companies with the biggest amounts of revenue are trying to go down to zero as much as they can because in the AI world we are heading attention is the most important asset, so growing is prioritized.

Some time ago I compared myself to volkswagen and someone in the forum told me I am wrong because I should be a ferrari.
Now you tell me instead I should be a Toyota because is more profitable.

What you write makes sense, but to apply it to porn is a different topic. We dont hire models in the way Toyota hires engineers and workers, we dont have a so big pool where we can fish talents, this is the main issue (and to fish in the pool gets more complicate year by year.

What my experiment can tell us, is the real value of the model/s, I think we can connect it to a lower price with better performance and have interesting data.
The issue is that porn is emotional purchase and when you make an example about yourself, you just make a terrible example totally against the fundamental of porn marketing.

If yesterday I released a scene with model Y at 15$ that has 1000 sales and, next month I will release another scene with the same model, better than the previous one at 5$, the data will be just very simple to analyse.

The comparison to VOLKSWAGEN is correct and better. Not many people know, but VW has a high market cap at 65 billion Euros, whereas Ferrari only has one of 54.5 billion Euros. VW also owns many other big names such as AUDI, PORSCHE, BENTLEY, LAMBO etc, etc.... from a car, sporting, financial, and economic perspective...VW and the comparison to VW is actually a much better compliment. The downgrade to FERRARI, is actually a backhanded insult...FYI for Giorgio Grandi.

[dap-addict]

The point is.
if a scene cost $15 to the user and I sell it 500 time the turnover will be 7500$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1000 time, the turnover will be 5000$
if the scene cost $5 to the user and I sell it 1500 time, the turnover will be 7500$
(I make it more than it is)

The issue is that porn is emotional purchase and when you make an example about yourself, you just make a terrible example totally against the fundamental of porn marketing.

Problem is still as soon as porn turns into a luxury product - as it seems to head to now - it might be an emotional purchase, but that emotional purchase doenst happen often anymore. Thus profit marge might be okay still for 1 scene, but not for 1 week of keeping the studio running, paying rent and base costs there etc.
Thus on the long run I'd better go towards Toyota or - Skoda for that matter - but aim at the more expensive models they produce.

[isis111]

shit, I'm sure the studios have a lot of videos in stock, and they release every two or three days, especially Gonzo, this is complete bullshit, I miss that good time when the video came out every day, every day I go at 00-00 in the hope that there will be a cool video, but it's not there, it's garbage

[zeusanalfreak299]

I used to buy scenes every day, also 2-3 per day from 2016 -2019.
Today I buy ø 1,5 scenes per month.

Studio owners complain about higher costs.
On the contrary they hire 2 women and 10 men for scenes with TAP, excessive Pissing multiple times during a scene with Fisting and Drinking liters of piss from a bowl.

In the past many very beautiful models joined porn in general and Legalporno for anal. Elegant, stunning, fresh, attractive models.
Today only the nastiest join the porn biz, because of the more extreme demand (Dap, Tap, Piss, Fisting,...). Many of them look totally fucked up.
The beautiful ones use OF or Insta.

In the long term AV will definitely die. I give two more years. Then it's game over if nothing changes.

[dap-addict]

Oh, no, the LP lez porn trolling starts again!

In the past many very beautiful models joined porn in general and Legalporno for anal. Elegant, stunning, fresh, attractive models.
Today only the nastiest join the porn biz, because of the more extreme demand (Dap, Tap, Piss, Fisting,...). Many of them look totally fucked up.

Dont agree for 2 reasons: We get especially form west EU many fitting your description, but these woman can still be attractive in their own way, plus we still get the elegant and stunning from Russia, Colombia, Venezuela and Brasil. Second DAP is just standard today, it's not extreme. Same will be true for DVP/TVP within 1-2y from now.

[Buck_Meister]

Dunno where this idea comes from: extreme tip fucking DAP, extreme piss drinking, extreme slide in piss, extreme cake eating
bunch of 80yo with weak bladder
LOL

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Oh, no, the LP lez porn trolling starts again!

In the past many very beautiful models joined porn in general and Legalporno for anal. Elegant, stunning, fresh, attractive models.
Today only the nastiest join the porn biz, because of the more extreme demand (Dap, Tap, Piss, Fisting,...). Many of them look totally fucked up.

Dont agree for 2 reasons: We get especially form west EU many fitting your description, but these woman can still be attractive in their own way, plus we still get the elegant and stunning from Russia, Colombia, Venezuela and Brasil. Second DAP is just standard today, it's not extreme. Same will be true for DVP/TVP within 1-2y from now.

The women we have now on LPAV are just as attractive in their own way.
Perceptions of beauty in porn has changed in the last 20 to 30 years.
I would say that the models now are still good, perhaps marginally less naturally attractive as before, but they are willing to do more extreme sex acts regularly (which I personally much prefer).

[dap-addict]

I honestly dont see a problem with quality of girls or content for LP. I mean it's clear that LP isnt for porn users not tolerant to demanding b/g assfucking, never was and never will be. Problems I see rather with scene prices and some inner workings lately. Today for instance there is again no GIO scene released, especially Prague have main studio layoffs and void is filled by old re-release crap. That might endanger whole LP as such.

[davebowman]

I honestly dont see a problem with quality of girls or content for LP.

I think the only issue with girls when it comes to some studios, is that the bar for a successful and profitable scene for a new model is so high, that many of them don't make the grade and are binned almost immediately if they don't sell enough. And with ticket prices being so high, it's often a hard ask for the audience to support a newbie through those critical early scenes as they develop. The result is we get the same talent pool repeated time and time again. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the established greats, but sometimes it's hard to get enthusiastic about seeing Anna De Ville (for example) getting fucked in the arse for the 500th time in a similar scene.

[isis111]

I honestly dont see a problem with quality of girls or content for LP.

I think the only issue with girls when it comes to some studios, is that the bar for a successful and profitable scene for a new model is so high, that many of them don't make the grade and are binned almost immediately if they don't sell enough. And with ticket prices being so high, it's often a hard ask for the audience to support a newbie through those critical early scenes as they develop. The result is we get the same talent pool repeated time and time again. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of the established greats, but sometimes it's hard to get enthusiastic about seeing Anna De Ville (for example) getting fucked in the arse for the 500th time in a similar scene.

I agree, it's fucked up when they fuck the same whores day and night, their holes should have been erased by now, fucking bony skeletons

[Pboxer88]

Oh, no, the LP lez porn trolling starts again!

With attention-seeking losers like this, the best policy is to ignore their existence and block when possible. If you provide any response or acknowledgement of them, it actually releases dopamine by completing a reward circuit cycle in the nucleus accumbens. If you ignore them, it leaves the reward circuit open and non complete, thus creating dissatisfaction for them over time. All this person wants is attention, even if it's negative.

[Gmoney18]

I cancelled my membership a year ago now and have been buying scenes of interest to me just with cash. I do not see scene price or lack of 'new' girls as a problem.

For me the problem is GIO using the same stable of models I'm not personally into since beginning of 2023. I am more than willing to pay $25 + CAD (15 + euro) for a GIO scene with a model I like - silvia dellai, elen million, lina arian, ria sunn, sayuri sakai, larissa leite, suzie q, lika gold, kristy black, julia maze. As far as I know these models are open to bookings.

Other than ria sunn, it seems Giorgio has instead just been booking rebel rhyder, Anna de Ville, and 7 or 8 other models for near-weekly repeat releases - it is this that disappoints me.

I realize that every model has her own preference for how often she shoots but GIO needs to start bringing those other bigger name models back more frequently than the last few months of releases would indicate. I love girls style of porn production, but no method of shooting/sex acts is a replacement for a variety of high quality models.

[Seraph0257]

I know this topic has been beaten to death, how tags in the settings are off, but come on. I have clearly listed in my settings, no gay, no TS. I had 5 new studios on my MAIN page, not feeds, that were TS or Gay. Listen, if you like looking at 2 dudes fucking each other, or you like your woman with a little extra hardware, good for you. But I don't. So AV/LP please quit giving me new scenes to look at with things I really have no desire to see.

[dap-addict]

It works pretty good for me - and I have the same setting as you have it seems.
But anyway, if they dont wanna invest in a new landing page with at least the 10 core LP studios separated from the rest, this tag system has to work 99-100%. If not porn users will leave eventually because mess gets too big. This indeed would be the end of LP.

But maybe we are also already past that end and what we got now is basically just XYVideos 2.0 already?

[isis111]

It works pretty good for me - and I have the same setting as you have it seems.
But anyway, if they dont wanna invest in a new landing page with at least the 10 core LP studios separated from the rest, this tag system has to work 99-100%. If not porn users will leave eventually because mess gets too big. This indeed would be the end of LP.

But maybe we are also already past that end and what we got now is basically just XYVideos 2.0 already?

because of these scenes with shemales and gays, the site turned into a garbage dump, gays and shemales are just fucked up, sick people, just thinking about how they look (trans) (woman's cock) is very disgusting, mother nature just went crazy if I saw this, well, gays, the fact that guys fuck each other in the ass scares me, it's very disgusting and disgusting, fucking girls is cool, fucking guys is a disease and the stupidest thing you can do in this life

[avanfurwet]

I think Pornbox need the core studios on the front page to attract surfers who may then see the offerings from less well-known content sellers.

Could this result in traditional customers leaving? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe some behave like DAP-A and just review the top rows of releases each day? Maybe some use filtered "feed" or "custom" tabs every few days/weeks like I do.

I think traditional LP customers may be more deterred by runaway price inflation than by cosmetic changes to the landing page, but that's just my uninformed guess with no evidence.

Whatever, IMO DAP-A is correct in that Pornbox is already XYVideos 2.0 (+Sheer backend). The old Legalporno, Analvids, and Pissvids brands are/were just obsolete tours and watermarks kept because some surfers still recognise the brands.

And I think the problem with tags not working to include/exclude certain content types, e.g. gay or trans, is caused by content sellers deliberately/accidentally not tagging their wares correctly and Pornbox admin not caring to police this. Maybe they think some outraged customers lost will be outweighed by sales gained. Maybe they're right?

[Seraph0257]

Just seems like a shame that those of us who have been around a long time and have thousands of videos are not heard.

[dap-addict]

Just seems like a shame that those of us who have been around a long time and have thousands of videos are not heard.

+ 1
With that unheralded sudden price rise by 35% of April 2022 they basically also cut loyalty links cared about 2014-21 a lot for. No idea what made them throw away such a capital, but they did and nobody seemed to care, even not GIO talking to some of us later to smoothen things up a bit. Since then, aground Summer 2022 YumYum stayed away and me, for instance, I gave in and returned to normal heavy use like before by paying 35-50% more for my porn hobby basically. Only now in May something within cracked for me, inflicted only partly by a next price rise but an arrogant attitude now also against long time loyal porn girls. Depends on studio ofc, but basically all of them based in Prague at least share the same attitude it seems. Not the thing I wanna support anymore. Thus I stopped additional TKT reloads which I frequently needed last 2-3y.
They loose, but I think they dont care really, sure PB management wont care. Some Prague studio owners might think differently, but what does 1 pretty quiet user buying much less mean to them? - Nothing really.

[otto1219]

Why stay around? If the prices are too much, let the market—and that's you‚ decide. That is what is happening.
There are alternatives to LPAV, you know.
There is so little here to attract, why complain over the prices? There are those who complain about the shitty bizarre fetishcentic content, about the lousy technicals and none of this is addressed, only the price? then don't pay it.
Search xvideos and redtube and the other "tube" sites for vomit, or piss, or hard lesbian and you will find it...for free. And, despite the chicken littles, porn and that content is not going away. In fact it is increasing and getting better technically.
There was porn on the walls at Pompei, is porn going to die if LP prices themselves out of the market? Hell, people will post their own porn for free, and on free sites, as they do now.
All this hand-wringing about the business model of LPAV seems to miss the point: If LPAV produced good stuff, stuff better than the competition, pricing would not matter.

[Paizal]

There are alternatives to LPAV, you know.

That's not quite true either. US porn is dead and many EU studios lack any quality. Sure, a lot of GIO and GONZO looks trashy and the girls aren't everyone's cup of tea - but at the end of the day, LP/AV is the one-eyed man among the blind.