Putin is staging false flag attacks on own troops

[maximaxi77]

Let's not start any info war. They not bombing civilians, they already confess about some loses. It's totally understandarble that they didn't take a time to count loses in first days of war. On the other side UKR president talking about thousands dead russians and even award posthumously some ukranian soldiers that later turn out to be alive. Again, it's very difficult to analize all that info rain. And what about "destroying holocaust memorials in Ukraine "? It's hard to believe that russians can do that. You have any proofs? I don't justify war, I just want to tell you that you are looking for a nazis in the wrong country. Russians have a historical relationship with them, you know.

There are some points that are certainly up for debate, especially on the propaganda that is being put out by both sides, but when you start your argument with ‘they are not bombing civilians’ you have lost all credibility on the subject. The evidence is all out there, you know.

At least they don't do it on purpose. Mistakes are possible in war. There is enough information that many civilian objects were destroyed due to errors in the defensive equipment of the UKR. Usually the Russians warn of attacks on military targets and offer to evacuate all people living nearby. Maybe my problem is that I'm used to doubt and questioning everything, and I'm wrong, but tell me, why don't they evacuate civilians, even when russia provides a safe corridor for this? Do they really think that this is a cruel russian trick to kill civilians? I will never believe it. Only one thing comes to mind - they use them as a shield. And another one: is it ok to give a guns to the civilians for defense? Isn't that the duty of the military? Are you aware of the problem of looting?

[YumYum74]

At least they don't do it on purpose. Mistakes are possible in war. There is enough information that many civilian objects were destroyed due to errors in the defensive equipment of the UKR. Usually the Russians warn of attacks on military targets and offer to evacuate all people living nearby. Maybe my problem is that I'm used to doubt and questioning everything, and I'm wrong, but tell me, why don't they evacuate civilians, even when russia provides a safe corridor for this? Do they really think that this is a cruel russian trick to kill civilians? I will never believe it. Only one thing comes to mind - they use them as a shield. And another one: is it ok to give a guns to the civilians for defense? Isn't that the duty of the military? Are you aware of the problem of looting?

I'm sorry, but now I think you're just trolling. The Russians leveled Grozny in the Chechen wars, indiscriminate of civilian casualties. They did it again in Syria, indiscriminate of civilian casualties. And NOW they don't do it on purpose?
And about why the Ukrainians don't evacuate the civilians? Explain to me how you evacuate millions of civilians, while simultaneously warding of Russian attacks. That's even beside the point anyway. If the Russians were so nice and offering a safe corridor (which I've seen no evidence for), why didn't they wait with bombing the cities? Why didn't they stop bombing when it became clear millions of civilians were still in the cities? The Russians are the aggressor here, and you're here blaming the Ukrainians for civilian casualties caused by Russian bombing.

Oh, and I am aware of the problem of looting. I've seen multiple instances of Russian soldiers looting supermarkets and shops.

[Iddaoeeok]

I think we should maybe rename this thread, "I don't support Putin but..." as the puffy faced midget obviously have his supporters and apologists who will find a way of excusing anything that happens in Ukraine or, better still, blame the Ukranians themselves for being murdered by the Putin's forces. Still as the UN vote on condemning the invasion showed there a (very) few people who agree with them... not in Russia, in North Korea.

[Starrio]

I know it is going to sound controversial, but this is how I see it in terms of countries that should have been part of the alliance.

OK to be part of NATO:

- U.S.
- U.K.
- Germany
- France
- Italy
- Spain
- Portugal
- Greece
- Netherlands
- Belgium
- Denmark
- Norway
- Iceland
- Luxemburg
- Canada

Should not have been added to NATO:

- Albania
- North Macedonia
- Turkey
- Bulgaria
- Poland
- Romania
- Latvia
- Lithuania
- Estonia
- Hungary
- Czech Republic
- Slovenia
- Slovakia
- Montenegro
- Croatia

OK to be added to NATO:

- Switzerland
- Ireland
- Austria
- Malta
- Monaco
- Liechtenstein
- San Marino
- Vatican City
- Andorra
- Australia
- New Zealand
- Sweden

Not OK to be added to NATO:

- Ukraine
- Serbia
- Moldova
- Bosnia & Herzegovina
- Belarus
- Georgia
- Armenia
- Azerbaijan

I know Finland is very debatable, but to me Finland is the only country I would have risked adding to NATO instead of the Baltics. Now with the new situation it's even harder not just for Finland, but also for Sweden, to part of the alliance.

And all of this would have been avoidable considering what Russia thinks their backyard really is. Just like U.S. doesn't want anything on the Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America.

[FriendlyFireFan]

I think we should maybe rename this thread, "I don't support Putin but..." as the puffy faced midget obviously have his supporters and apologists who will find a way of excusing anything that happens in Ukraine or, better still, blame the Ukranians themselves for being murdered by the Putin's forces. Still as the UN vote on condemning the invasion showed there a (very) few people who agree with them... not in Russia, in North Korea.

You might like this meme or it might be relevant to this thread:

https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/

I think use of the meme is legitimate in cases of unavoidable activities, like buying things, but not as a blanket dismissal of legitimate acknowledgements of hypocrisy.

Anyways, it is not my business (nor is it healthy - I need to touch grass) to play Mister Gotcha with anyone on AV. I can do that with the self-righteous soccer moms here (America) if I know they've "supported" our own troops and wars of aggression.

In short, fuck the U.S., and fuck Putin. And - this goes out to everyone here - listen to the old radio interviews of Bobby Fischer. He knew the score, and was what I consider a 'real man', unlike Putin.

[FriendlyFireFan]

Yeah, nato is so defensive, they proved it when I was a kid, dropping bombs every day from the sky 200 metres from my house and nearest soldier was 10 km from there.

My country (the U.S.) is disgusting. No, not just the government. I mean ordinary people. I want to see them suffer. It would be fun. Not trying to flatter you - I have legit wanted justice for our and NATO's war-crimes in Yugoslavia. I wish we had more brave men like Bobby Fischer.

I hope we all have or find healthy outlets for our anger (besides porn?) Personally, venting online doesn't help me; it only makes me more outraged. But it's fun to try to 'network' and seems like a good idea when you can't sleep . . .

[maximaxi77]

At least they don't do it on purpose. Mistakes are possible in war. There is enough information that many civilian objects were destroyed due to errors in the defensive equipment of the UKR. Usually the Russians warn of attacks on military targets and offer to evacuate all people living nearby. Maybe my problem is that I'm used to doubt and questioning everything, and I'm wrong, but tell me, why don't they evacuate civilians, even when russia provides a safe corridor for this? Do they really think that this is a cruel russian trick to kill civilians? I will never believe it. Only one thing comes to mind - they use them as a shield. And another one: is it ok to give a guns to the civilians for defense? Isn't that the duty of the military? Are you aware of the problem of looting?

I'm sorry, but now I think you're just trolling. The Russians leveled Grozny in the Chechen wars, indiscriminate of civilian casualties. They did it again in Syria, indiscriminate of civilian casualties. And NOW they don't do it on purpose?
And about why the Ukrainians don't evacuate the civilians? Explain to me how you evacuate millions of civilians, while simultaneously warding of Russian attacks. That's even beside the point anyway. If the Russians were so nice and offering a safe corridor (which I've seen no evidence for), why didn't they wait with bombing the cities? Why didn't they stop bombing when it became clear millions of civilians were still in the cities? The Russians are the aggressor here, and you're here blaming the Ukrainians for civilian casualties caused by Russian bombing.

Oh, and I am aware of the problem of looting. I've seen multiple instances of Russian soldiers looting supermarkets and shops.

I'm not a troll and not Put-fan. I'm just get used to doubt ANYTHING. May be you right. May be many of the videos (like looting) is staged. About bombing - all evidence I could find is rather unintentional incidents (wich is still horrible). And you still can't say whos rocket it is. But there is some quite interesting vids to analyze, like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMMxwA4lvbA

But enough about that, coz it took to many time and nerves to surf on the waves of fake news and propaganda. Let's talk about something 100% real. Is Mr. Pu a real madman? Is UKR-nazi threat is real or they only have like 5000 far right soldiers? I did some research and must say that I regret to doing this. Because I witnessed the most inhuman acts and could not sleep for several hours. I can't post all the links i have because some of these are very cruel things and they are not on YouTube. Like neo-nazis is nailed to a cross and burned a Russian man alive. Russian invasion lasts a week and all nations are completely mad about it. War in Donbas lasts a 8 years with civilian funerals almost every day but hardly anyone talks about it, yeah? For decades UKR split in 2 parts: nationalists and people who didn't deny russian roots and relation. Last ones living mostly in eastern Ukraine. The saddest thing about this is that not only a problem with UKR radical military forces. Civilians are also go side by side with the nationalists and spread hatred among people. They share nationalistic ideas and have no idea how low they fall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtAXNqEuXcU - 2015, Kiev, bar BarHot. Some party with eatin a cake in form of baby on russian flag. They joke about whos want a leg, including adult women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzXrtGlDsVI - 2021, march in Kiev, pause on 1:46 - inscription on a black poster: "our religion is nationalism, our God is Stepan Bandera" (you can google this guy).

Some good documentaries from Time and BBC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy910FG46C4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC1oCpnDURc

There is marches that constantly held, where even women and children shout out popular ukranian (for decades) slogans like "Russian to the gallows " and "put the Russians on knives". And by "russians" they also means all russian-ukranians too. This war is horrible and has no excuse. But war in Donbass is not an exception too. Yes, it's Russia who invades and most likely we don't know many details of this war, but... I just wish it didn't happen at all. Ukranians were stupid enough to bringing their country to such instability, US and EU were stupid enough to pumping Ukraine with weapons and Russia were stupid enough to start a war and collecting even more hate from anyone than any nazis. Peace.

[stewpidaz]

Yeah, nato is so defensive, they proved it when I was a kid, dropping bombs every day from the sky 200 metres from my house and nearest soldier was 10 km from there.

My country (the U.S.) is disgusting. No, not just the government. I mean ordinary people. I want to see them suffer. It would be fun. Not trying to flatter you - I have legit wanted justice for our and NATO's war-crimes in Yugoslavia. I wish we had more brave men like Bobby Fischer.

I hope we all have or find healthy outlets for our anger (besides porn?) Personally, venting online doesn't help me; it only makes me more outraged. But it's fun to try to 'network' and seems like a good idea when you can't sleep . . .

You seem to be meeting the criteria of multiple brain tumors, have you thought about running for office lately?

[maximaxi77]

Some regular marches.

[Edwoo42]

Only outcome I see for Putin is being deposed. Sorry for the ordinary Russians and Ukrainians, Russia will never be respected on the world state again and forced to pay reparations for decades. And the Russian military is an embarrassment. Never was and never will be a world power. Kim Jong Un has nukes too, at least he’s not dumb enough to use it.

[netzerkaiser]

@FriendlyFireFan; @2017sucks...

Regardless of who says what... I have deep respect for you both, that you are courageous enough, as I hope I am, to admit not all is well in the house. That always takes something, to shine cold light on yourselves, & we've all done it. Respect.

[maximaxi77]

Little more: <url removed>
clck on the "Translate Tweet". If these people are capable of this, I wouldn't be surprised if they dress up in Russian uniforms and start bombing Ukrainians houses JUST to create fake news.

[Iddaoeeok]

<url removed>

We all know you wouldn't be surprised, it's fairly obvious where your sympathies lie.

[YumYum74]

<url removed>

Yes, because everything the Russians tell you is true, since they have obviously never lied to anyone before. They have never bombed civilians, their progress is according to schedule, the jewish president of Ukraine is a nazi, they have almost no casualties etc etc etc

[maximaxi77]

<url removed>

We all know you wouldn't be surprised, it's fairly obvious where your sympathies lie.

You know nothing then. I just triggered on "Adolf Putin" message and trying to tell that all the nazi parallels is targeting wrong country. You not agree? Totalitarianism - thats another story. Tell me who's not lying in politics and especially at war?

[Iddaoeeok]

We all know you wouldn't be surprised, it's fairly obvious where your sympathies lie.

You know nothing then. I just triggered on "Adolf Putin" message and trying to tell that all the nazi parallels is targeting wrong country. You not agree? Totalitarianism - thats another story. Tell me who's not lying in politics and especially at war?[/quote]

Anything I've learned about your sympathies I've gathered from what you've written here, which is a non-stop barrage of attacks on Ukraine and Ukranians and excuses for Putin's actions and the conduct of the Russian forces that could have come straight from the Kremlin. Given all that, I don't know why you would be ashamed of admitting that you support this invasion, given how awful you think Ukraine is and how blameless you think Russia is.

[maximaxi77]

We all know you wouldn't be surprised, it's fairly obvious where your sympathies lie.

You know nothing then. I just triggered on "Adolf Putin" message and trying to tell that all the nazi parallels is targeting wrong country. You not agree? Totalitarianism - thats another story. Tell me who's not lying in politics and especially at war?

Anything I've learned about your sympathies I've gathered from what you've written here, which is a non-stop barrage of attacks on Ukraine and Ukranians and excuses for Putin's actions and the conduct of the Russian forces that could have come straight from the Kremlin. Given all that, I don't know why you would be ashamed of admitting that you support this invasion, given how awful you think Ukraine is and how blameless you think Russia is.[/quote]

Jesus, all I wanted to say is that fascism is the problem of Ukraine and totalitarianism is the problem of Russia. Just do not mess with these terms. My sympathies is with all civilians that suffers right now.

[YumYum74]

Jesus, all I wanted to say is that fascism is the problem of Ukraine and totalitarianism is the problem of Russia. Just do not mess with these terms. My sympathies is with all civilians that suffers right now.

But you didn’t say that. If you had, this thread wouldn’t have gotten so combative. I still wouldn’t necessarily have agreed with you, but at least it would have been a more rational position.

All you did was believe (or if I’m being very generous ‘leaned toward believing’) all the bullshit the Russians put out, and by proxy basically excuse an all out invasion of a sovereign country of 44 million peope under the guise of fighting a neonazi group that has a grand total of 2500 men.

[Iddaoeeok]

No explanation yet from the Putin apologists on how a so-called nation of neo-Nazis ends up with a Jewish President, in fact it wasn't that long ago that the President and the Prime Minister were Jewish.

[2017sucks]

Now even Russian cats banned from international competitions. Hypocrisy and sickness on max, new level, new bottom. Not to mention students being kicked off from universities, people losing jobs, stores being demolished. In some countries people even being sent to prison, if support Russia. And Putins regime is totalitar, right? Maybe those people actually escaped to West from that evil guy? The real problem for them is, he fucked up their plans, being faster few days, saved his people from Serbs destiny in Croatia and Kosovo. This just put back on surface their endless, already few centuries long hate to Russia. They are not Nazis, they are some sick mutant, comunists-nazis, that red star from Kremlin actually moved to Brussels 30 years ago, now simply more than obvious. They dropped any single tear, during the last 8 years, for 14000 people in Donbas, being killed from sick nazi gangs, just because being Russian? Of course not. And would they drop any single tear, if Nazis were faster now and finished their mission of killing and ethnic cleaning in Donbas and Lugansk? Of course not. Thats why they can just bark, like mad dogs and keep the war going on, till the last Ukrainian. Yeah, thats how they actually care about poor Ukrainians. And also not bad to get fresh, health young and most of all cheap workers in their factories on the West. All this because they cant accept law of the nature of life. Everything has the start and the end. So, the same goes for the West, EU and North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation.

[netzerkaiser]

No explanation yet from the Putin apologists on how a so-called nation of neo-Nazis ends up with a Jewish President, in fact it wasn't that long ago that the President and the Prime Minister were Jewish.

I'll try give input here, Iddaoeeok. Having lived in Russia in 1990's I was shocked at the amount of anti-semitism there. But with time I saw a vicious circle. The Orthodox Church based hierarchy persecuted, marginalised the Jews especially, 'pogroms', 'pale of settlement' etc etc. Many Jews took umberage in the 'Godless' Communism & were over-represented in the rank & file of Cheka | NKVD etc. There is no running away from this. I tried, but of all Gullag commanders etc I researched on Wikipedia of all things, a very significant percentage of all I encountered, & they themselves usually ended up with a bullet in the nape of the neck, were of Jewish parentage. This, along with plain lies & exaggerations against Jews, led to the embrace, normally sober groups like the Lithuanians & Ukrainians showed against Jews, any Jew, when the Nazi's moved in. Solzhenitsyn wrote a book on the complex relationship, which I don't know has even been published in English.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/ ... ssia.books

Theres nothing to argue here from me. I try see good in every decent person. But the fact that so many Ukrainians & Baltic peoples were vicious towards innocent Jews in 1941 owes greatly to their belief right or wrong or plain muddy, that they were dealing with an element that was against them with the absolutley vicious Soviet cruelty put on them . This Hoodomor issue in the issue was of especial recent memory at start of war.

On the question of why Ukraianian Christians are happy to vote in a Jewish prime minister, then we should only marvel at how we've all moved on.

[netzerkaiser]

No explanation yet from the Putin apologists on how a so-called nation of neo-Nazis ends up with a Jewish President, in fact it wasn't that long ago that the President and the Prime Minister were Jewish.

I'll try give input here, Iddaoeeok. Having lived in Russia in 1990's I was shocked at the amount of anti-semitism there. But with time I saw a vicious circle. The Orthodox Church based hierarchy persecuted, marginalised the Jews especially, 'pogroms', 'pale of settlement' etc etc. Many Jews took umberage in the 'Godless' Communism & were over-represented in the rank & file of Cheka | NKVD etc. There is no running away from this. I tried, but of all Gullag commanders etc I researched on Wikipedia of all things, a very significant percentage of all I encountered, & they themselves usually ended up with a bullet in the nape of the neck, were of Jewish parentage. This, along with plain lies & exaggerations against Jews, led to the embrace, normally sober groups like the Lithuanians & Ukrainians showed against Jews, any Jew, when the Nazi's moved in. Solzhenitsyn wrote a book on the complex relationship, which I don't know has even been published in English.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/ ... ssia.books

Theres nothing to argue here from me. I try see good in every decent person. But the fact that so many Ukrainians & Baltic peoples were vicious towards innocent Jews in 1941 owes greatly to their belief right or wrong or plain muddy, that they were dealing with an element that was against them with the absolutley vicious Soviet cruelty put on them . This Hoodomor issue in the issue was of especial recent memory at start of war.

On the question of why Ukraianian Christians are happy to vote in a Jewish prime minister, then we should only marvel at how we've all moved on.

*Holodomor

[Iddaoeeok]

On the question of why Ukraianian Christians are happy to vote in a Jewish prime minister, then we should only marvel at how we've all moved on.

I marvel at how some people are swallowing Putin's bullshit about "denazifying" a country which democratically elected a Jewish president.

[netzerkaiser]

On the question of why Ukraianian Christians are happy to vote in a Jewish prime minister, then we should only marvel at how we've all moved on.

I marvel at how some people are swallowing Putin's bullshit about "denazifying" a country which democratically elected a Jewish president.

I'd like to thank you for not jumping in & accusing me of anti-semitism here. I thought about this today at work, & I think people at certain times & in certain situations based on a common societal life experience can share a similar "world view".

An urban black Illinois late 1960's poor black community could share one based on TV images of the civil rights movement, a shared prejudice & limited social mobility faced, a shared Sunday morning preacher experience ingrained...

I recall being amazed at the shared "world view" that poured from the letters of young rural Yankee & Confederate soldiers in Ken Burns's "The Civil War" series of 30 years ago, these letters were distinguished by a strange "Gospel of St Paul" & farmhand mentality...

Thats a "world view", & I'd advocate the "world views" of Cossacks, Circassians, & Jews, in The Steppe & "Pale of Settlement" each had their own distinguishing features relating to Tsardom & of course, the following revolution. Turgenev's work reveals so much of the complicated pre-revolutionary mindsets.

But to be, for example, an anti-semite to me means something else. And I feel sorry for such people. They instead take a human characteristic, such as meaness, or capacity for duplicity, or slyness, & they push that on an entire people.

So I feel sorry for them because their life experience has been so impoverished that they can't see that there is good & bad amongst all peoples. Most of my working life has been amongst English / Scots / Irish / Welsh folk, & as a consequence of that I know the best people & the worst people I ever met comes from that pool. If I'd work all my life amongst native Sardinians I'm sure I'd say same thing.

So I feel sorry for say a rural anti-semite farmer from Nebraska, because he simply didn't see enough of life to know that all the demeaning (in terms of personality) images / personal traits etc he put, for example, on Jews, he'd find downtown if he just ventured out & lived his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELBy5stH3b8

[okumo2]

To sum things up:

Putin said a couple of weeks ago that russian troops will not invade Ukraine.

Obviously, Putin is a LIAR (!) and we can expect that he is a liar in other regards as well, trying to justify what he is doing.

Therefore, Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL and neither his attemps nor the attemps of his supportes in such forums will change the view of the world on him. Hitler started an unprovoked war in Europe and so does Putin. This will be Putins legacy, to be a person like Adolf Hitler.

[Simi1101]

To sum things up:

Putin said a couple of weeks ago that russian troops will not invade Ukraine.

Obviously, Putin is a LIAR (!) and we can expect that he is a liar in other regards as well, trying to justify what he is doing.

Therefore, Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL and neither his attemps nor the attemps of his supportes in such forums will change the view of the world on him. Hitler started an unprovoked war in Europe and so does Putin. This will be Putins legacy, to be a person like Adolf Hitler.

Same as Putin in 2014 denied that those people in tanks and uniforms driving around in Crimea aren't Russians until he suddenly said with out feeling wrong about it they were!
Putin tries to reintroduce pre-1945 behaviorisms in Europe and has to be stopped.

[Simi1101]

To sum things up:

Putin said a couple of weeks ago that russian troops will not invade Ukraine.

Obviously, Putin is a LIAR (!) and we can expect that he is a liar in other regards as well, trying to justify what he is doing.

Therefore, Putin is a WAR CRIMINAL and neither his attemps nor the attemps of his supportes in such forums will change the view of the world on him. Hitler started an unprovoked war in Europe and so does Putin. This will be Putins legacy, to be a person like Adolf Hitler.

Same as Putin in 2014 denied that those people in tanks and uniforms driving around in Crimea aren't Russians until he suddenly said with out feeling wrong about it they were!
Putin tries to reintroduce pre-1945 behaviorisms in Europe and has to be stopped.

[robin_reid]

Listen to statements by Biden 1997

Senator Biden in 1997: "The only thing that can provoke a hostile and vigorous response from Russia is the expansion of NATO into the Baltic states."

<url removed>

[Simi1101]

Put your Biden hate aside, man.
It was the US Republicans who were heavily into NATO expansion, the Baltic states were added to the NATO during George W. Bushs tenure.

But that was a time when the US Republicans were not yet degenerated into a bunch of Putin-fans.

[Starrio]

To clarify establishment Democrats and establishment Republicans usually share the same agendas, they just present them differently.

The issue now is that the main agenda going on in the world is an economic change, which they call the great reset, where they want to implement small step ideas like circular economy to bring people closer to the ideal of people not having private property of their own and to hold people accountable of their actions by controlling whether they have access to the services and goods of society.

However to accomplish this the world economy must be levelled, which means places like China and India should rise, and places like U.S. should lower their economic power. So in other words the establishment being involved with these agendas means the direction they want to take the country towards isn't compatible with what many people assume are their intentions.

The problem with that is that they can provoke events and circumstance that will facilitate these agendas to move forward, and they are constantly measuring how can this be accomplished both ways, short term, and in the long run.

[Iddaoeeok]

I suppose it was too much to hope that the tinfoil hat stuff wouldn't keep showing up in this thread, in various guises.

[netzerkaiser]

I had no idea until last night, when I researched it, of the Chechnyan conflicts. Fu@k me, how did I miss that? Or was it easy? Was it | both wars, poorly documented?

[Starrio]

Whoever is invading is always the oppressor, there is no excuse or denial about that, and that goes for any occupation, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria, Crimea, Georgia, Yemen, Palestine, etc., even if we were talking about North Korea, regardless of the provocation, people have the right to have their own way of living, ideas, culture, etc., even if it doesn't match other people's views.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Make love, not war.

[netzerkaiser]

Whoever is invading is always the oppressor, there is no excuse or denial about that, and that goes for any occupation, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria, Crimea, Georgia, Yemen, Palestine, etc., even if we were talking about North Korea, regardless of the provocation, people have the right to have their own way of living, ideas, culture, etc., even if it doesn't match other people's views.

You are right.

[netzerkaiser]

Whoever is invading is always the oppressor, there is no excuse or denial about that, and that goes for any occupation, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Syria, Crimea, Georgia, Yemen, Palestine, etc., even if we were talking about North Korea, regardless of the provocation, people have the right to have their own way of living, ideas, culture, etc., even if it doesn't match other people's views.

You are right.

Actually, I change my mind here. If the president of a certain South American country keeps allowing rainforests to be destroyed, is this right? Are they his rainforests or do they belong to every living thing on this planet, past, present, & future.

Thats just one example.

[netzerkaiser]

When you get to mass graves, you have to start doing something.

[Starrio]

Actually, I change my mind here. If the president of a certain South American country keeps allowing rainforests to be destroyed, is this right? Are they his rainforests or do they belong to every living thing on this planet, past, present, & future.

Thats just one example.

I actually trust human ingenuity, we will always find a way to solve problems, big problems, and I also believe there is a higher intelligence at play on everything that happens, just because something looks bad at face value it doesn't mean it is in the big scope of things, and the same goes with the opposite.

You could say you are lucky because you won the lottery, but then you can say you are unlucky because now that you have money you become an addict or a compulsive gambler, and that leads you to dying. Maybe your car broke down and that made you unlucky because you lost your flight, or you are lucky because maybe that plane was going to crash or you were going to meet someone that was going to make your life a living hell, you never know.

This is why we can't judge other people's cultures, we have to respect their way of life, and maybe it is terrible, maybe it looks really bad, but you never know what that would bring i n the long run. Maybe a rain forest was going to produce the next deadly virus with a 95% killing rate, who knows, or maybe it will allow for a lesson that will make the world change for the good, these are thing we can't measure and in a way it is like respecting nature and let it do its thing.

[netzerkaiser]

Actually, I change my mind here. If the president of a certain South American country keeps allowing rainforests to be destroyed, is this right? Are they his rainforests or do they belong to every living thing on this planet, past, present, & future.

Thats just one example.

I actually trust human ingenuity, we will always find a way to solve problems, big problems, and I also believe there is a higher intelligence at play on everything that happens, just because something looks bad at face value it doesn't mean it is in the big scope of things, and the same goes with the opposite.

You could say you are lucky because you won the lottery, but then you can say you are unlucky because now that you have money you become an addict or a compulsive gambler, and that leads you to dying. Maybe your car broke down and that made you unlucky because you lost your flight, or you are lucky because maybe that plane was going to crash or you were going to meet someone that was going to make your life a living hell, you never know.

This is why we can't judge other people's cultures, we have to respect their way of life, and maybe it is terrible, maybe it looks really bad, but you never know what that would bring i n the long run. Maybe a rain forest was going to produce the next deadly virus with a 95% killing rate, who knows, or maybe it will allow for a lesson that will make the world change for the good, these are thing we can't measure and in a way it is like respecting nature and let it do its thing.

I respect you, but I disagree. No 'mickey mouse' state creation owns the rain forests. The Earth does. And to be frank, so many Asian (China, Japan), European (English, Italian, French) nations have some degree of historical pedigree. Not that they should get away either. If French PM said "I'm gonna pollute world's oceans with our nuclear waste", I'd say, you gotta stop this now.

Away from slave trade, Asiatic migration over Siberia, & European colonization, is there any such thing as "South America"? Or even "North America" at that?

[Starrio]

If French PM said "I'm gonna pollute world's oceans with our nuclear waste", I'd say, you gotta stop this now.

You are failing congruency here because that's no longer internal fairs, that would be considered an act of war because it is directly affecting everyone else.