Will AVLP girls be allowed to have fun at sex in future?

[dap-addict]

More and more AGO fans call us snowflakes or claim we had a 0% pussy agenda and would therefore reject a portrait of porn sex like exposed here, with a girl visibly in distress and several times close to crying on set like in the last Kitty Doll AGO Domination scene (https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/308335).

Apparently this scene sells good, which seems to indicate yet a new trend in porn after the pussy porn revival. Currently - not counting NRX and DDF with sales boosted by subscription deals - it rank 11th in March.

Now is domination play something bad? - No, it isn't! It's just one of the porn fantasies, it's clearly staged by consenting adults as well. But in a fair society domination play would show sexual or emotional gains for everybody involved, not only the boys. Call me a feminist, I'll take it!

Question is do we want this?


Or this?

[dap-addict]

Let me just add this: It was really hard for me to cut and post that abominal Kitty Doll vs. Deny Lou gif. I have tender feelings for Kitty for over 1 year, I wont deny it. I also happen to know how she felt in real when that minute of AGO footage was shot in February 2023. But Kitty Dolls feelings at her job are not the point really, we all do a hard job at times to earn our money. Point is: Is that the porn Pornbox wanna sell in the future? Is that the porn majority of us will buy? Or wants?

Last but not least: I posted 2 anal porn examples. But you can replace it with pussy porn footage or DP footage in your head. It's all there at AGO and more and more studios jump on the same train. It's not about porn sex acts, it's about the atmosphere porn sex is portrayed in the edited product offered to us users.

Think of any girl you ever met, talked with and admired for whatever she stood for. Imagine to have her join porn and watch your fantasies with her: Would you want her dominated and demeaned without any visible joy? (ex-GIO rookie Sharlotte Thorne walking her dogs in the woods outside Prague, private foto)

[feltrough]

My opiniom on this is clear i was very vocal about it in forum...to see girl in pain and and distress is not something i want to see and it needs to stop. Nothing wrong with hardcore or even rough sex as you said but if woman enjoys it too if not it looks like abuse nothing more.

[Evil_Del]

Dude, you're way too emotional about it.
Those girls have chosen to have sex for a living, they are PROFESSIONALS, it's not some girl abducted on the street and forced into a rape. It's not a poor asian street prostitute forced into doing degrading things for old pervert tourists.

That Kitty Doll girl has made several scenes, she has a cute "innocent" face and in absolutely all of her scenes she always has that scared/distraut look on her face. It's part of her appeal for probably 90% of the guys who buy her scenes.
If she felt mistreated she would have not come back, she's not taken hostage, she chose to do that, and i'm sure she perfectly accepts the pros and cons of the job.

Shooting porn has nothing to do with pleasure. You think men take pleasure during their fucking on a porn shoot? No they don't. They are on automatic, they are all jaded.

Look, in nowadays society, men are clearly loosing all power. They are mistreated psychologically by women on a daily basis. Society tells the men they are pieces of shit, weak, but at the same time that they are all wannabe rapist and molester. At the same time women and even little girls now are more and more sexualized.
So mathematically the frustration grows and men have more and more dark fantasies fuelled by those frustrations. Some choose to go the "cuck way" other go the "rough manhandlings" way. Bottom line is that they want to see women get roughed up.

Is it good, is it bad? It's just a sign of times. Those porn girls are like sacrificial lambs paying for the sins of "real" women, and the frustration of men is appeased by jerking off on that and not on molesting real women in real life.

Just my humble opinion. Be more concerned about prostitutes from the street whom passport has been stolen by sex traffickers, by poor girls who are exploited by sex tourists and less about pornstars and bitches who have an onlyfan.

[avanfurwet]

DAP-A's gif seems to be from Kitty Doll's latest scene. He says she was upset and maybe he talked with her so maybe he knows. We can't assume she was OK with it. We don't know if she'll return. Would be interesting to hear from AGO, although I guess we won't.

But we should also try to maintain a sense of proportion here. Every day many women in many different workplaces and homes are hurt, humiliated, upset and close to crying. Men too, although we're conditioned not to admit it. Of course it's wrong to make anyone feel that way and we should all treat each other better, but this world is far from perfect. Kitty Doll's misfortune is to see her distress being paraded for other people's entertainment.

In sex, some people like a little pain with their pleasure and may even enjoy seeing someone cry or themselves being made to cry. The difficulty is knowing where to draw the line with each individual sexual partner and how to participate right up to their limit but not to go too far. Easier said than done. People are complicated.

Personally I don't like BDSM, but generally I think BDSM fantasies are OK so long as all participants are freely consenting adults playing out a fantasy scenario, which is not too extreme (unwilling victims, injury, etc.) and nobody is actually hurt or traumatised. Easier said than done.

The models at studios like AGO do a hard job and occasionally the directors or actors might possibly go too far and hurt somebody, intentionally or not. I would like to hope that in professional productions such incidents are rare, unintended and are handled sympathetically. But I'm an outsider so I won't ever know the reality. The Lana Bunny incident from a few years ago shows that things don't always end well.

The specific problem with the Kitty Doll example is if a scene being sold as entertainment shows an unwilling actress becoming genuinely distressed. Of course, a few sadists and rather more immature incels will become excited by that and rush to watch it.

But even looking cynically at such video nastiness as entertainment to be exploited - it's still a niche. For every customer who is attracted to a studio peddling such wares, there may be 10 or more customers who turn away and won't return to that studio because they don't like what they see.

So I think the smart Pornbox studios looking to maximise sales will try to appeal to the widest possible audience and keep their scenes more acceptable to the majority of potential customers.

As a comparison, in "mainstream" movies I guess gory horror films will always find a market but the highest grossing movies last year show that blockbuster entertainment sells much better.

[bloodywarriorx]

Hey I didn’t know about this kitty doll scene and I now I’m going to buy it haha thnks

[visigoth2020260]

after so many years of LP/AV producing exceptional vanilla porn the best on the net, users most users had to go out of lp/av to find anything similar to the kitty dolls scene ( the number one scene at A/V and not even V, leal can come close to kitty performance)...
as such scenes do not call for laughter, but despair.

Kitty doll88 is the new top girl of AV.

in that scene, AGS showed what is he capable of, delivering one of the best hard-core on the net. this scene came out flawlessly. was t by pure luck? as the V, L scene was lame in comparison?


kitty acted like a flirting, teasing naive stupid looking teen, who wouldn't know the consequences of such behavior with the wrong guys, maybe she expected to get the loving fuck of her dream but was all chattered in a moment when she was treated, used, abused and all her holes fucked with no mercy or
compassion at all.
AGS should bring all EKS girls and give them the Kitty doll88 treatment.

if you guys were to watch 1970s movies you would learn that such actions are plain normal, even in one of Charles Bronson's movies
we find a perfect example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNPPrvhTKuc
for now, I think that only GG can remake this scene to the teeth, but he does not like
to force fuck....I hope he is not planning on leaving all this to AGS...
and no disciple should master his master

master GG would you now please consider making the Big boy Johnson and his gang scene?
hope for members to read the script and help us to pick the perfect girl for this scene.
ill cross my fingers for GG evaluation. I think the time has called for it, master.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=8459&hilit=big+boy&start=40#p745737
this time I want a $100 dollars check, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha not kidding.



producers only watch their own porn and most users only watch their porn, you'll never gonna learn anything like that.

I downloaded another example to show how normal this is in cinema and in porn too.

and bitches love it.

My Video-47.gif (15.63 MiB) Viewed 5006 times

I do hope for Angelo to understand the importance of full-body view and to master it
......no one talks about EKS but she is making that cash. whoever can reproduce her intros without the slow-motion and tilting and make them as long as hers and a bit longer, will be in business, the first impression is what counts.......our great man OB should take advantage of this by replacing the preview with what I just mentioned.

My Video-48.gif (6 MiB) Viewed 5006 times

my answer is.
These girls get paid for what they do, and yes there is competition among them too.
and will do anything for that cash, and 99.9 % of these girls will not give you the time of day if you were to ask them. so let's get over the treatment situation and fuck them to oblivion..... this bitches will drop anyone for better paid or work an even for dreams at acting in Hollywood....so it happened to my man OB, then bitches played him really good, viewtopic.php?f=96&t=48243&hilit=+hollywood#p742606

thank you for taking the time to read this.
we all need to come together and help the producers make top-notch scenes..
we need more customers, we need to get all paid members from the whole world.

[visigoth2020260]

Hey I didn’t know about this kitty doll scene and I now I’m going to buy it haha thnks

one of the best ever produced.

[chemonro15]

IVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN


DAP ADDICT YOU ARE A FUCKING LOSER WITH LITERALLY NO LIFE WHO SPENDS 23 HOURS A DAY ON THIS FORUM,


GO OUTSIDE YOU SAD CUNT

[visigoth2020260]

IVE SAID IT BEFORE AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN


DAP ADDICT YOU ARE A FUCKING LOSER WITH LITERALLY NO LIFE WHO SPENDS 23 HOURS A DAY ON THIS FORUM,


GO OUTSIDE YOU SAD CUNT

thas not appropriate, we should never insult or disrespect our fellow members.
DAP ADDICT is a great contributor and has knowledge of what is going on, to a certain degree, he is a very valuable member of this community.

we might have different tastes but that is how life is.

so let's invest every word we type on making all the studios at AV top-notch, so we can attract clientele from all major studios outside of AV.

[ayrtight]

I hate seeing girls getting rough treatment during the whole scene , more so when they are in distress .
I prefer to see them enjoying the action .

[visigoth2020260]

this scene will high rocket kitty doll88 career at AV, making her the #1 star.
I can only imagine this scene selling like hot cake to starving buyers.
https://www.analvids.com/watch/308335/k ... apwith_pee

we should not add more words than they are, we all know that if any model feels any pain or is uncomfortable during a scene there is a signal for the girls to use, so everything will stop...

let us not insinuate that shanty franco was right when she accused LP of mistreatment of models.

My Video-2.gif (19.1 MiB) Viewed 4905 times

kitty doll88 is the best, beautiful, and knows how to act in from of the camera.
the acting in this scene can only be compared to Cannibal Holocaust (1980 )

Ten days after its premiere in Milan, Cannibal Holocaust was confiscated under the orders of a local magistrate,[36] and Ruggero Deodato was charged with obscenity. As all copies were to be turned over to the authorities, the film was released in other countries like the United Kingdom via subterfuge.[1] In January 1981, during the film's theatrical run in France, the magazine Photo suggested that certain deaths depicted in the film were real, which would have made Cannibal Holocaust a snuff film.[37] Following the publication of the Photo article, the charges against Deodato were amended to include murder. The courts believed that the actors who portrayed the missing film crew and the native actress featured in the impalement scene were killed for the camera.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibal_Holocaust

AGS has done his first masterpiece, bravo.

we want more.
AGS please consider this humble gif.

I LOVE KITTY.

My Video-56.gif (27.05 MiB) Viewed 4905 times

[MackZatis]

1st)
Point is: Is that the porn Pornbox wanna sell in the future? Is that the porn majority of us will buy? Or wants?

2nd)
It's not about porn sex acts, it's about the atmosphere porn sex is portrayed in the edited product offered to us users.

TLDR, but will get around to reading this whole post sometime soon, as it's not too often at all that there is a new topic with actual discussion going on. (thank god you didn't post this in Kittys model topic, as it'd be lost to hell in 24hrs or less....)

1st)
It's not what I want. Hell no, thank you very much....
It's OBVIOUS that YES this IS what PornBox wants to sell, also true at the SAME TIME is that PornBox doesn't really give A SHIT one way or the other what the content on screen is, just that it SELLS. And then it will be repeated to death for years to come....
If a video of a monkey drinking his own urine sold, that'd be whats offered.... by EVERY STUDIO.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hl_kq0zjI

Wish we could embed a fucking video, some real caveman shit around here.....


2nd)
I agree 100% and it's ALWAYS been the case for me, for my 25+yrs watching porn quite heavily....

I really wonder what the majority age group is for this type violent/extreme domination/Distressing rape-play fantasy is. Is it the more seasoned jaded users / the older age groups? Or the younger generations that have grown up de-sensitized with hardcore porn at their finger tips 24/7/365. While also at little risk of being caught by parents/teachers/adult types due to mobile phone porn and the protection & privacy afforded to tem in regards to their phones......

All the snoflake shit is really annoying too, but if it's a clear cut obvious divide between snoflake & not snoflake (what ever bullshit name is come up with), I'll take snoflake. All the non flakes always cry out "IT'S ONLY A FANTASY" blah blah blah. You know who else had these "fantasies" Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dhamer, the BTK killer, ect ect... Fantasy until they acted on them to play in real life... Not saying 1+1=2, and everyone will act on it. Not at all, but there will always be at least 1 or more that do.... You know who doesn't? People that DON"T FANTASIZE & actively seek & spend money on videos about rape type & violent sex....

[davebowman]

Call me jaded, but I don't particularly care if a girl is super enjoying a scene and clearly getting off on it, or struggling and close to tapping out - I find both of them equally hot as it feels like we're seeing something 'real', and getting some actual emotions in true gonzo style. What I can't stand are those who are acting like robots or lifeless sex dolls, where you know getting fucked up the ass is really having no effect on them at all, and they've got half their attention of what they are going to have for dinner later that day. If a girl has been really struggling, I have to presume that if it was really horrendous they'd have quit the scene, or multiple girls would complain about a studio or actor, rather than keep coming back for return trips.

Clearly this site does have some limits, as per the Vile Vixen video that was recently removed for containing punching etc. Things like this and hard BDSM are way out of my comfort zone, so I don't watch them, but if everything's consensual who am I to complain if other people like it. A little bit of painal though, I'm personally down with.

[visigoth2020260]

that is so absurd.
Do you mean that if you watch porn you are a sicko?
if you play GTA you'll end up killing cops?
if you watch horror movies you are demented or from the devil?
if you like sexploitation movies that include rape scenes, you are a rapist or will soon be one.
are you for real, son?

we talking about money here, and there is a hugely profitable market for all of this.
If you don't like it don't buy it, but do not try to call us rapists.

so you want to tie AGS hands?

Kitty Doll88 is the #1 star of AV.

[visigoth2020260]

Call me jaded, but I don't particularly care if a girl is super enjoying a scene and clearly getting off on it, or struggling and close to tapping out - I find both of them equally hot as it feels like we're seeing something 'real', and getting some actual emotions in true gonzo style. What I can't stand are those who are acting like robots or lifeless sex dolls, where you know getting fucked up the ass is really having no effect on them at all, and they've got half their attention of what they are going to have for dinner later that day. If a girl has been really struggling, I have to presume that if it was really horrendous they'd have quit the scene, or multiple girls would complain about a studio or actor, rather than keep coming back for return trips.

Clearly this site does have some limits, as per the Vile Vixen video that was recently removed for containing punching etc. Things like this and hard BDSM are way out of my comfort zone, so I don't watch them, but if everything's consensual who am I to complain if other people like it. A little bit of painal though, I'm personally down with.

well, I guess AGS will have to make the girls make a disclaimer.

now the question is, where does this nobleman want it, at the beginning or at the end of the scene?

[TheVulture]

If a girl has been really struggling, I have to presume that if it was really horrendous they'd have quit the scene, or multiple girls would complain about a studio or actor, rather than keep coming back for return trips.

Is that realistic though? Do the girls have much power in porn? All of the studio owners and directors are (I assume) male.

My thoughts on this are clear and I don't have an active subscription just now as I can't find enough porn here (or anywhere) that sizzles from the screen. Instead it's a lot of angry dudes with big egos putting the girls "in their place" or whatever, which doesn't turn me on.

There was an interesting article in the press here in England the other day that did make me think. It related to a survey on child exposure to porn and I think it was something like 50% of 12 year-olds who regularly viewed it via their phones. Worse, there was a very large percentage of them who assumed that a man choking or slapping a woman was basically a fundamental aspect of sex - just as much as kissing. That is a little bit chilling I think.

I hark back to my days at that age when I occasionally stumbled across porn. This was the mid/late 80's so it would have been porn mags discarded in bushes etc., later fairly tame VHS stuff. That was obviously exciting and I don't think damaging in any way. Kinda scary but only in the sense that you didn't fully understand it. I try to think what the very worst stuff I could have seen would have been. I guess you had scat and probably dodgy illegal animal sex. Pretty much everyone in our school claimed to have seen this film called Animal Farm where a woman gets fucked by a horse. I didn't and I don't even know if it exists or is just one of those apocryphal things. Thing is, if it was real I'm not sure anyone would be hugely damaged by it as even at that age you instinctively realise that it's not normal (same as scat or whatever). But if you're seeing essentially ordinary sex that has violent male domination tones as a matter of course during your very formative years that is a different matter, isn't it? Why wouldn't that shape your opinion of sex? I'm glad I never had that exposure is my point.

I know people will say rough stuff is fine as it's consensual, for viewing by adults etc. but I do think that those who make that stuff must bear some responsibility if it gets through to kids. It isn't really in any way "niche" now so it transpires that sex that filters down to kids will almost certainly feature it to at least some degree. I do think that's worrying and not a good look for porn in general. Kids in the early internet era - not that long ago - wouldn't be likely to see such stuff. It is a new and troubling development really. I love porn as a rule but find it increasingly difficult to defend in a general sense. There isn't really any hardcore base level devoid of male aggression anymore, which we did have 15-20 years ago.

I get how this pans out....the usual internet outliers (most likely) defending rough porn to the hilt....probably some angry/"what a snowflake" type stuff....and AV/LP continuing to service that audience. That's fine. Knock yourselves out. It is what it is but I think it's valid to point these things out and speak up. My question I suppose is: "Does it concern you the possible damage you are doing to younger generations by celebrating this stuff?"

[SimplyStunning]

@dap-addict, Thanks for posting the scene that shocked your senses so deeply so people have a point of reference. I left some questions for you, if you care to reply here: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=56388&hilit=sabotage&start=80#p859134

SELECTIVE OUTRAGE

I'll make 3 quick points:
(1) when I say be aware of people posting with some agenda, this is what I mean. This whole thread is suppose to criticize AGO you feel he hates women or has no respect for them but subconsciously your mind revealed your disappointment that AGO doesn't exclusively produce more boring 0% Pussy scenes:

Apparently this scene sells good, which seems to indicate yet a new trend in porn after the pussy porn revival. Currently - not counting NRX and DDF with sales boosted by subscription deals - it rank 11th in March.

(2) the below sounds great but my problem is who it is coming from.

Now is domination play something bad? - No, it isn't! It's just one of the porn fantasies, it's clearly staged by consenting adults as well. But in a fair society domination play would show sexual or emotional gains for everybody involved, not only the boys. Call me a feminist, I'll take it!

Now while you still have the quote in your head, read other quotes dap-addict has posted when forum members complained about the pointless 0% Pussy scenes being produced. Which often were straight to anal or DAP. Scenes that were advertised as over 90% DAP the remaining percentage was anal only. WTF. To each it own though. Anyway here is dap-addict respond to people on forum complaint about the often pain, discomfort or distress by the women in the scene.

Porn actors are payed to do their job, if they wanna fuck for their own pleasure they can do it at home. Its not a job like any other, fun at the job is well seen and good for better results, but the director decides

Btw, please stop that beaten up anti-porner claim! Nobody does any harm to anybody at a porn set, girls can always call for a stop when it gets too much!

Now I understand that people can mature and change but it makes me very suspicious of their motivations.

(3) Now with the new feminist @dap-addict, should also be calling out the following studios to be fair to AGO (I can find more GIF and Pics of Kitty and other women if this is not enough to prove my point):
GONZO:
GG:

Her expressions weren't conveying FUN in the above clips and this is why I stopped buying her scenes. Nothing is more of a boner killer to me than a woman looking uncomfortable throughout a scene. No matter how cute she is.

SELECTIVE OUTRAGE

[dap-addict]

Btw, please stop that beaten up anti-porner claim! Nobody does any harm to anybody at a porn set, girls can always call for a stop when it gets too much!

It's still the same. I didnt change and I dont take this quote back, because it's the truth. But if you read OP carefully you'll see that thats not the point here at all.

I repeat my quote from this sadly hijacked thread of PAF: SiStu,

Sixth, you realized in OP of this thread (viewtopic.php?f=96&t=57029) I included gifs of 2 AGO NHB incl. DVP shots of the same AGO Domination line, yes? One was intended to be a positive example (Vero Leal smiling) and one as a negative example (Kitty Doll vs. Deny Lou). It's the same studio, the same content basically, but a different atmosphere, sex portrayed in a different way.

This thread: viewtopic.php?f=96&t=56388&p=859877#p859877

[dap-addict]

Dude, you're way too emotional about it.
Those girls have chosen to have sex for a living, they are PROFESSIONALS
(...)
Is it good, is it bad? It's just a sign of times. Those porn girls are like sacrificial lambs paying for the sins of "real" women, and the frustration of men is appeased by jerking off on that and not on molesting real women in real life.

Thanks for this post, Evil_Del!
You delivered me some food for thought.

Generally I might be too idealistic about sex linked to joy, even if I repeat again and again here that porn was just a job etc. On top I also might be too emotional because I feel with Kitty Doll also during her porn job break times back in Russia. Generally my problem might be that I do care and have compassion still and that not only when "my porn girls" are in Prague for their porn job.

[visigoth2020260]

some like it others don't.
but I have found the solution
the cash will continue flowing
and the conflicting parties will gather
together in love and harmony and most
important the girls will continue winning as always.

[Ultra-Gape]

Shooting porn has nothing to do with pleasure. You think men take pleasure during their fucking on a porn shoot? No they don't. They are on automatic, they are all jaded.

Whether the participants get pleasure out of shooting a scene is one thing, but for me porn where the participants at least appear to get pleasure from the sex hugely more enjoyable to watch (this goes for both the women and men). Dominant sex can absolutely be great to watch but for me only if the women are apparently getting turned on by it rather than it essentially just being simulated abuse.

[avanfurwet]

If a girl has been really struggling, I have to presume that if it was really horrendous they'd have quit the scene, or multiple girls would complain about a studio or actor, rather than keep coming back for return trips.

Is that realistic though? Do the girls have much power in porn? ...

We customers can only speculate idly about how much power girls have in porn, or any sex work.

But surely those girls who survive and keep on working find ways to protect themselves. They do consider how much of a risk they're taking if they go to work on set for each different producer. They do think about how much they trust their employers/clients to treat them fairly on set and to pay them properly.

Some actors and producers can get a bad rep and in these days of instant broadcast via social media bad news travels almost a fast as fake news.

Of course, some girls may still choose for their own reasons to take work with unknown or known-bad actors and producers. But you can't babysit everyone all the time.

All of the studio owners and directors are (I assume) male...

Not all producers and directors are male. But I think most are.

[TheVulture]

Generally I might be too idealistic about sex linked to joy, even if I repeat again and again here that porn was just a job etc.

Well I see it another way entirely. It's generally me making the point on this forum that the male actors are brutish and joyless, whereas you normally defend them. I've always seen you as an "X's and O's" kind of porn consumer in that your primary concern is how many DAP positions there are, how well the anchor stud penetrates etc. To you the overall "vibe" of the scene I've always thought was immaterial. In other words, if the girls are loose and expressing wild fun and heat or if the guys' hands are all over their necks and faces subduing them (dousing them as I say), both are fine if the aforementioned "X's and O's" line up. So this thread is a bit of a surprise to me but definitely a welcome one.

Certainly anyone suggesting the OP is on some long-standing crusade to rein in the guys' aggression and ego hasn't been paying much attention to these kind of threads in the last few years. Perhaps it simply marks a tipping point with him and thus maybe others.

[TheVulture]

But surely those girls who survive and keep on working find ways to protect themselves. They do consider how much of a risk they're taking if they go to work on set for each different producer. They do think about how much they trust their employers/clients to treat them fairly on set and to pay them properly.

But what kind of power do they have to change anything? That's the point. I would be surprised if the directors have post-scene conversations with the girls about what they liked, what they didn't like etc. with any kind of genuine intention of changing things. My guess would be it's a bit of a case of "like it or lump it" and on to the next scene.

Is it realistic that girls would give any negative feedback to a group of men who are making product for a (mostly) male audience? Would they not just be concerned that they might be viewed as "difficult" and essentially be blacklisted? Porn is by definition a high turnover industry in as far as the girls are concerned. Perversely (given the societal perception of male and female porn actors), it's the male actors whose positions are much more settled. They hold all of the cards in terms of the "vibe" of a scene. If any girl doesn't like it, the director can move on to the next girl. Sure, some girls sell really well so you don't want to slay the golden goose but could we name 1 AV/LP girl that the site would struggle without? No we couldn't. It's a fast moving conveyor belt so there are parallels with low paid "gig economy" work purely in so far as the access to available labour is concerned (pay is of course a very different kettle of fish).

I think of it in the same way as any number of office jobs I've had over the years. I'm there a couple of days. It's fine. But the odd staff member is a bit funny with me. I'm given a piece of work I don't think belonged to me that stressed me out a bit. Others seem to have more comfortable chairs. These kind of fairly minor things. Do I rush to my line manager to point these things out? Probably not. I don't want to rock the boat. On balance it's fine. I muddle on. If it's unbearable I would leave but we live in a capitalist society and it's a job, which I need. I would think most porn girls see it the same way. They're horny so the sex is good. The pay is very good. Some of the guys are a bit OTT with their physical aggression. 1 or 2 of them crossed the line a bit and were maybe out of control. But the girls are OK and didn't feel in any particular danger on the whole. Their dignity is comprised a bit maybe. They wish they were treated a bit better. But maybe it's not about that. They're still learning the ropes, understanding the game they're in. They'll stick with it. They like hard sex and it's a good career. You would think that given its nature, porn would be better than that though and have strict checks and balances to ensure that the guys are girls are sizzling from the screen (which they can only do if they're totally happy and relaxed - you can't force a "sizzle"). But given that we all seem to agree that this isn't really the "MO" of AV/LP - it could more accurately be described as "let some physically strong guys loose on a horny young girl and have them physically dominate her" - then what reason is there to think that any of these checks and balances are even deemed necessary (let alone in place)? None whatsoever.

Again many will spout angrily in response to this but this isn't me saying that any kind of rough sex in porn is immoral but simply that it's naive to think that modern porn isn't applying a bit of a rough "one size fits all" style to all of its output. You only need to compare modern porn with that of 10-15 years ago to see the likelihood of this. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's probably a duck. I've seen enough modern porn where the girls look at best subdued and at worst downright uncomfortable to doubt that there are any checks and balances or any kind of feedback process for them that doesn't involve them jeopardising their (already short) careers. Others can see it how they want but assuming the girls are somehow in control in a male dominated industry is beyond naive. They make the most money of course (I assume) but that isn't the same thing. This is a man's game and the girls are really at the whim of whatever attitude the men producing their content and the men performing sex with them want to transmit.

[bake0213]

None of you actually know whether or not the scene was too much...even those who pretend to be friends of the models. There is no way to know whether the model "has fun sex" even on a short one-on-one anal. Stop pretending that you can look at a still or an act and determine for the rest of us whether is it too violent/painful/aggressive/or whatever other white knight issue of the day is. You know exactly nothing. If a model doesn't like a scene, she should stop accepting offers. And some do, and have since the beginning of porn. Kitty Doll, in fact, had already worked with these same actors and in one similar scene already. She knew what she was getting into, and to suggest otherwise, is patronizing at best.


Furthermore, it is well established that DAP-Addict has an agenda. Scenes that are DAP only are good. Scenes that are not are bad. There are 32000 posts either directly or indirectly made to this effect using all kinds of logic and non-logic to construct a reality that fits his fetish. You can agree or disagree with his premise, and everyone is allowed to have a preference. But to think he has any insight that you or I don't have is ridiculous. And if you're buying that somehow the models are having fun sex while DAP-ing even if they are smiling, I don't know what to tell you.


Finally, I suspect that the outrage on these threads only help sales. I for one, have purchased three scenes solely due to threads like this. In fact, AGO was barely on my radar until I started hearing the blah blah about choking in the scenes. And given the mess on the store page, I suspect I am not the only one.

[visigoth2020260]

by bake0213
Finally, I suspect that the outrage on these threads only help sales. I for one, have purchased three scenes solely due to threads like this. In fact, AGO was barely on my radar until I started hearing the blah blah about choking in the scenes. And given the mess on the store page, I suspect I am not the only one.
.....................................................

thank you, sir.

porn is a serious business.

[avanfurwet]

But surely those girls who survive and keep on working find ways to protect themselves. They do consider how much of a risk they're taking if they go to work on set for each different producer. They do think about how much they trust their employers/clients to treat them fairly on set and to pay them properly.

But what kind of power do they have to change anything? That's the point. I would be surprised if the directors have post-scene conversations with the girls about what they liked, what they didn't like etc. with any kind of genuine intention of changing things. My guess would be it's a bit of a case of "like it or lump it" and on to the next scene...

I get your point that a girl would not complain if she felt intimidated or that nobody would listen. Same as in any workplace.

That leaves her with the other options of quitting and/or not returning. Same as in any workplace. Of course, that would lose her some income and maybe future work from others. She has to decide and do what she thinks is best for her in her own individual circumstances.

Although, a smart producer would at least listen to feedback from the people who work for them because it's easier to captain a ship with happy crew who work willingly to make a better product.

.....................................................................................................................

In this case, despite a popular and pretty star in Kitty Doll and despite the controversy about whether she was hurt or traumatised on set (which seems to have encouraged a few to want to buy the scene), it is currently only around #40 in the best-sellers list for March 2023.

I think that if bdsm/humiliation/abuse scenes really were guaranteed best sellers, then Giorgio would long ago have worked out how to churn out endless realistic-looking scenes in that genre and would sell nothing else. The fact that Giorgio sells a range of scenarios to suit different customer preferences suggests the market is not so easily pigeonholed. In fact, none of the bigger-selling studios on Pornbox seem to be specialising in that niche. Maybe they know something about their business?

[TheVulture]

And if you're buying that somehow the models are having fun sex while DAP-ing even if they are smiling, I don't know what to tell you.

Interesting that you accuse dap-addict of having a pre-determined position to suit an agenda and then come out with this. What is it you know about sexually adventurous women engaging in DAP that we don't? Have you even watched an Anna de Ville/Brittany Bardot/Rebecca Sharon/Sasha Beart etc. etc. etc. scene? The best way you can describe those girls' general reaction during most DAP positions is "bliss". Fake? Well, again, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's likely to be a duck. Unless you can provide some categorical evidence to tell me that those girls are pulling the wool over my eyes. Would be funny if you couldn't do this and this didn't destroy your assertion, whereas the fact I can't prove a girl is uncomfortable or in pain does destroy mine. Funny indeed, don't you think? Some might even say hypocritical but I leave it to them to decide.

[TheVulture]

The fact that Giorgio sells a range of scenarios to suit different customer preferences suggests the market is not so easily pigeonholed.

That's the bit that I struggle with. Giorgio isn't as bad as some and I have bought quite a few scenes of his lately that I've liked but essentially even his non-manhandle scenes have a pretty permanent degree of male aggression. Throat-grabbing, some wrestling etc. are basically now endemic throughout porn, which is why I frequently choose to pass. I don't think you can say with any credibility that Giorgio provides " a range of styles". Basically as a consumer you just have to decide how much manhandle you want or can bear from him. But some manhandle you will absolutely have to stomach.

[jjwhite1985]

If everything is consensual then it's fine, anything not agreed on beforehand shouldn't happen, that's pretty black and white. Where the problem lies is if a girl feels like she can't say no, whether because of money, pressure etc, and ends up performing acts/scenes against her will. That's a major problem, and although studios/producers can say the girl "never told them" or whatever, they are absolutely responsible for making sure girls shooting for them are never put in that position.

[Vancouver]

someone like Kitty is good looking enough with a sexy hot body that she can make money doing vanilla porn .She keeps coming back over and over to do DAP, TAP, Pissing, gangbang , etc. So, we have to, and must , believe she is comfortable shooting this level of demanding porn even if there are moments here and there where it does not go well.

So, should we feel sorry for her? Or should we acknowledge that she likes most of it, has some bad uncomfortable moments on set, and feels the income is worth those moments of discomfort?

If someone is legimtately abused, burn the guy down. But if she keeps coming back, we need to wipe away the tears and realize she has decided to make the most of this career path and is willing to accept the rare bad moment as part of the big picture.

[shenmue]

Daptroll is losing the plot, in porn love with another performer and has a bias against a studio, nothing new here.

[dap-addict]

Maybe I wasnt clear enough:

Now is domination play something bad? - No, it isn't! It's just one of the porn fantasies, it's clearly staged by consenting adults as well But in a fair society domination play would show sexual or emotional gains for everybody involved, not only the boys. Call me a feminist, I'll take it!

My complaint is foremost about the end products emotional, ideological and esthetic qualities, ie. a product showing girls demeaned with no joy deriving from the sex they are put through.
I thought by adding Veronica Reals AGO Domination line example I mad that clear.

I think I now why Kitty Doll was shooting such scenes, at least I have talked with her many times about it and she is pretty consistent in her anwers. And yes, she does have a safe word ofc and she could at any time stop this scene(s).
There is a price she pays for these scenes, which I think is too high, especially in terms of health, but she seems to have calculated most of it before. I dont go into details here, AGO knows about unwanted side effects and I hope they fight harder to eliminate this amongst their male team to a maximum.

And as for DAP (or DVP/TP/TAP) of course its hard and hardly sexually rewarding for the girls on set, but my complaint is not about that, but the fact that hardcore anal sex is portrayed in the end product as totally demeaning for the women. So demeaning she never even smiles, never shows any joy, even doenst present to get that, even doenst act that way.

[YuriyProneBone]

I haven't read the entire thread just the OP first post, but in all fairness what you are doing here is free publicity for AGO because seeing girls is distress will always sell more, people just love seeing the girls struggle and having a hard time. And that goes for women that watch porn too. When I watch porn with my partner, what she wants is seeing the girls struggling because it is admirable, it sparks curiosity, and it represents women being completely free from shame.

That's the biggest selling point for anal sex. It is the number one reason why it is still taboo for some people. Women don't have a clit in their butt, and most regular girls are afraid of doing anal for the pain. In fact, one of the biggest appeals for anal for women is because they know it pleases the man because it means women are giving in completely. That's not to say women cannot experience pleasure from anal, of course they can, but that's extra, not the main thing.

So in a site dedicated to fuck girls in the ass and to piss on their face, of course the struggle will always be the biggest selling point. When it comes to real life no one wants to see people taken advantage of, but porn is an art form that is based on fiction even if what you see is 100% real, it is still a role-play, and with that context in mind the most appealing thing is seeing women getting defiled by men taking advantage of their bodies for pleasure.

It is similar to violence in movies. Most people doesn't want violence in real life, but in movies it is pure entertainment, the same goes with porn. If you want women to have pleasure, go the gym, and get very fit so YOU can fuck them properly in real life.

I'm not saying AGO is a good director or whatever, maybe he is maybe he is not. I mostly skip all his scenes because they are expensive. However if those scenes were half the price, I guarantee I would have pretty much every single one, and all you are doing here is selling me more on buying them.

[Jocke]

There will always be people who enjoy seeing other people in pain, we can only hope that they get severly beat up themselves.
Serious porn companies should of course not produce this shit. Ago started out great but it is now a very long time since I bought anything from him. I wouldn't mind if he disappears.

[Mordecai35]

I see why, especially with her why you've become emotionally concerned about the treatment of these girls. The fact is that they are not forced to return - yet nearly every model does. That's because it's a job, to make money - and clearly in all work we face stress, pressure, emotional and physical pain. If its too extreme, we walk away, we find a new job. The fact is here these models - and Kitty in particular has done EXTENSIVE work, and yes, I think this scene, in part was over the top - in fact, I don't like ANY of AGO's domination scenes, they are fucking dumb as shit. Bunch of apes in focus, girl barely in focus and they are all smacking her body and choking her. The fuck is that shit. Pathetic weak men find that sexy.

[Seraph0257]

Snowflake
I actually had to look up the social meaning.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snoflake

Of what I've read so far, this post reminds me of the whole Mary Wet incident. I'll add or delete later, after finishing all the comments.

[YuriyProneBone]

Problem with snowflakes is that it doesn't matter where they are, they tend to be a loud minority. However who knows in 20 years, they can grow significantly because of all the soy intake and the brainwashing from media.

[bake0213]

Pretty gentle if you ask me, but we better add visual evidence for the readers to judge for themselves..