Giorgio Grandi says porn is fiction, is that right?

[JASON15938]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiction
Fiction: the type of book or story that is written about imaginary characters and events and not based on real people and facts: The book is a work of fiction and not intended as a historical account.
So saying that porn is fictional is to say that the perfomers are not real and the acts in the scenes are imaginary characters which is not true.
In my opinion it must be said that porn is not "SEXUAL EDUCATION" but "ENTERTAINMENT" as Valentina Nappi said in her herlimit scene with Chapman
Because what the actors / actresses do in the scenes is absolutely real, no one will tell me otherwise

[TheVulture]

I'm with you. I think the fiction/acting thing is often thrown up by people to defend acts such as manhandling the girls, ie "Oh lighten up - it isn't real, just acting". But of course it isn't acting and it is real. The purpose of porn as I understand it is simply to capture unbridled lust between performers who are into each other for the voyeuristic pleasure of people who for the most part will never encounter quite such experiences in real life. So the producer/director's role is purely to turn up the heat on what are very "real" physical encounters. Anything else is just tick box stuff for a niche (and often but not always unpleasant) demographic.

I'm not really surprised that I disagree with Giorgio on this as while I like his porn and buy a hell a lot of it, in many ways my viewing runs very much counter to his whole style and presentation. I find him to be a little unpleasant in his spoken intro bits etc. and do think that he views porn in a different way to those directors I loved back in the day (eg Christoph Clark, Susi Medusa to name just 2), ie less a celebration of very sexually uninhibited and attractive women and more a kind of "lure them into my spider's web and film the results" sort of vibe. I thus think he kind of makes (mostly) very good porn despite rather than because of his approach if you like.

Porn is fantasy and of course it has a sense of being divorced from the normal way of life of most people (even very sexually active ones). That does not in any way make it "fiction". It's quite a subtle distinction but it is an important one.

[ryukenmaster666]

I think you forgot that part of definition : "More broadly, fiction has come to encompass imaginary narratives expressed in any medium, including not just writings but also live theatrical performances, films, television programs, radio dramas, comics, role-playing games, and video games."

[TheVulture]

I think you forgot that part of definition : "More broadly, fiction has come to encompass imaginary narratives expressed in any medium, including not just writings but also live theatrical performances, films, television programs, radio dramas, comics, role-playing games, and video games."

Indeed and of course porn involves fictional narratives. I'm sure we all accept that.

But to bring it back to a manhandle scene, it's important to realise that you can't just defend it by saying "Oh it's just fiction". Even though she might be playing a role, a girl has still actually been choked, slapped, wrestled, twisted etc. and will have to deal with the physical and mental consequences of that, both in the short-term and long-term (ie it being visible for all time). Again if she genuinely likes that stuff then fine. But if she doesn't, you can't just defend it on the grounds of fiction or the fact that she has consented to it. There is a responsibility to the performers and also a respect for the art form that need to be accounted for.

[Iddaoeeok]

Well, for a start, you are giving defintions of 'fiction' in English, Giorgio is Italian and there might be subtle differences in the definition of the word in Italian, I don't know for sure. Anyway I don't think of porn in terms of fiction and non-fiction so much as in terms of performance. If you go to see ballet, if you're the sort of person who goes to ballet, then the dancers on the stage are actually dancing but the whole event is an artificial construct, it's not a real life, spontaneous event. The same is true in porn, I think, the performers are brought together specifically to put on a performance for an audience, and not just any performance but a performance where the content is, to a great extent, pre-determined. It's also edited and re-configured afterwards, which adds another layer of artificiality (or fiction?)

[dap-addict]

This is a very good thread, thanks, Jason!
Just let me put the original context from Giorgio Grandi: viewtopic.php?f=108&t=33458

To be a station to GIO where she will ends up with 2 on 1 fake cum scenes.

This is the classic topic without any sense, connected to a pointless thread that from April 26 got 2400 visit and 22 replay, with a survey that got 52 answers on a forum that, at today, has over 2 million and 600 thousand users
statistically, the topic 'Euro-2020 series" is more interesting.
Said that, without to enter in the details, porn is not reality. Porn it is not meant to be reality. Porn is fiction and it has to stay as it is: fiction.
And the stupid crusade against "fake cum" (based on suspicious, inferences and 99% of the time on a simple technical decision during the editing) do not penalise me, but eventually penalise the model (but, as the number of ppl involved in the crusade is so small, it doesnt penalise anyone).
The choice is between to wait several minutes between each cumshot (because porn actors needs time to cum) with a continuous sequence shot, or make cuts. I choose cuts, because this is the way to do it.
You (all) dont know what you are talking about. You watch porn, I shoot porn almost 20 years, with all respect I know how to do it better.

[JASON15938]

Well, for a start, you are giving defintions of 'fiction' in English, Giorgio is Italian and there might be subtle differences in the definition of the word in Italian, I don't know for sure. Anyway I don't think of porn in terms of fiction and non-fiction so much as in terms of performance. If you go to see ballet, if you're the sort of person who goes to ballet, then the dancers on the stage are actually dancing but the whole event is an artificial construct, it's not a real life, spontaneous event. The same is true in porn, I think, the performers are brought together specifically to put on a performance for an audience, and not just any performance but a performance where the content is, to a great extent, pre-determined. It's also edited and re-configured afterwards, which adds another layer of artificiality (or fiction?)

How does editing make it artificial? Tell me if DAP TP TAP FISTING or others are special effects. Fiction in movies or tv series is the result of special effects, editing etc. and cannot be simply wanted.
but acts in porn are freely available to anyone who wants to practice
Tell me if Siswet's hardcore performances are fictitious?
and recently Sam Zee and her husband a couple very fan of AV who practice the performances of AV, she uses dap-addict toy and surely her recent one was edited, said it is fictitious?

[Iddaoeeok]

Well, for a start, you are giving defintions of 'fiction' in English, Giorgio is Italian and there might be subtle differences in the definition of the word in Italian, I don't know for sure. Anyway I don't think of porn in terms of fiction and non-fiction so much as in terms of performance. If you go to see ballet, if you're the sort of person who goes to ballet, then the dancers on the stage are actually dancing but the whole event is an artificial construct, it's not a real life, spontaneous event. The same is true in porn, I think, the performers are brought together specifically to put on a performance for an audience, and not just any performance but a performance where the content is, to a great extent, pre-determined. It's also edited and re-configured afterwards, which adds another layer of artificiality (or fiction?)

How does editing make it artificial? Tell me if DAP TP TAP FISTING or others are special effects. Fiction in movies or tv series is the result of special effects, editing etc. and cannot be simply wanted.
but acts in porn are freely available to anyone who wants to practice
Tell me if Siswet's hardcore performances are fictitious?
and recently Sam Zee and her husband a couple very fan of AV who practice the performances of AV, she uses dap-addict toy and surely her recent one was edited, said it is fictitious?

Fiction is not the 'result' of special effects or editing, for instance, a play (usually) does not need special effects. If I see someone having a conversation in a movie, or drinking a glass of water in a movie, or walking up some stairs in a movie, I can also do all of those things in real life, so I've no idea what point you're trying to make there. The other thing about watching a play in a theatre, is that you're seeing it happen in real time, with porn you're seeing something that has been filmed over a much longer period than you are actually seeing in the movie - large sections have been edited out, you can't edit reality in the same way, so in that sense what you are watching is artificial. It's liking when you're watching the highlights of a football game, you're not watching the actual game.

People here seem to be saying that porn is both fantasy and reality, which seems contradictory to me.

[ryukenmaster666]

But to bring it back to a manhandle scene, it's important to realise that you can't just defend it by saying "Oh it's just fiction". Even though she might be playing a role, a girl has still actually been choked, slapped, wrestled, twisted etc. and will have to deal with the physical and mental consequences of that, both in the short-term and long-term (ie it being visible for all time). Again if she genuinely likes that stuff then fine. But if she doesn't, you can't just defend it on the grounds of fiction or the fact that she has consented to it. There is a responsibility to the performers and also a respect for the art form that need to be accounted for.

Woke like to make everything coplicated to justify they are woke but the answer is very simple :

She agrees, no problem, her business.
She didn't agree, then it is assault and should be punished.

Case closed.

[TheVulture]

People here seem to be saying that porn is both fantasy and reality, which seems contradictory to me.

No of course it isn't. It's a fantasy for the performers in that they are acting out their sexual fantasies in a safe environment that they can't find outside of porn. How would a girl who likes the idea of a 10 on 1 gangbang realistically achieve that in real life, for example? Porn is obviously a natural choice for those girls if they meet other criteria (looks being the obvious one).

And for the viewer it's the realisation of their fantasies as well, ie making them "real" for their viewing pleasure.

The sex acts being undertaken are very real and at the same time the realisation of a mutual fantasy sphere involving both the performers and the audience. There is no contradiction in that whatsoever.

[Starrio]

Oh no another thread of Vulture trolling, this pointless argument is so stupid with him, he has no common sense.

A women acting as if she is getting raped is fiction, a woman getting raped is reality, and they both can be done with real sex. Get it?

It's idiot proof, it's so easy to understand.

[TheVulture]

Woke like to make everything coplicated to justify they are woke but the answer is very simple :

She agrees, no problem, her business.
She didn't agree, then it is assault and should be punished.

Case closed.

Well that sounds very much to me like the zero sum game of someone likely harbouring a nasty kind of intent (ie a manhandle-at-all-costs fan).

A reasonable person would consider the middle ground where a girl consents because she perhaps doesn't think she has a huge amount of choice (and also more generally wants to partake in the porn sex) but doesn't find certain acts she has consented to pleasurable. In that scenario the porn producer has ticked the box of consent and non-manipulation but is nonetheless not making great (ie fantasy) porn but simply tick box product for a niche market.

And for the purposes of this discussion you can't simply pass off the displeasure of performing the act(s) as "fiction" or "acting", because they did genuinely take place in the way that they wouldn't for an actress playing someone partaking in those acts in a non-porn movie production. The acts are not just written on a page or mock-performed by a skilled actor simply dramatising them - they are performed outright for the sole purpose of others' viewing pleasure.

[TheVulture]

Oh no another thread of Vulture trolling

Does this just mean "another thread where I'm challenging some of the defences of unpleasant porn and where you have no recourse to that other than to accuse me of trolling"?

Yes. Yes I think it does.

[Starrio]

See it's useless, dude can't reason. He just makes generalizations to make everything please his political agenda.

It's complete hypocrisy and nonsense because under that logic women shouldn't be doing any kind of porn whatsoever unless it's just for her pleasure, and that just having to perform any kind of sex without that would be equivalent to abuse.

When in reality it is no difference than flipping burgers on a McDonald's.

[Giorgio Grandi]

Fictional film

Fictional film or narrative film is a film that tells a fictional or fictionalized story, event or narrative. In this style of film, believable narratives and characters help convince the audience that the unfolding fiction is real. Lighting and camera movement, among other cinematic elements, have become increasingly important in these films. Great detail goes into the screenplays of narratives, as these films rarely deviate from the predetermined behaviours and lines of the screenplays to maintain a sense of realism. Actors must deliver dialogue and action in a believable way, so as to persuade the audience that the film is real life. Probably the first fictional film ever made ....

On the top of this, the fiction is clearly staged (planned, organized, or arranged in advance)

And to close the topic, since long time we shoot so called "video release" before the scene, where the model states the sexual acts she will be involved in the scene (she is officially informed about the sexual acts and she officially agree). She also agrees to shoot with the performer/s in the room, and she is is informed she can say "stop" to interrupt the shooting if she need/with so and other stuff about her own will to do what she is going to do

Also after the scene we shoot a "video release" with other legal statements where the model, for example, states if her "stop" call was respected and so on.

There is no rage, ho hate, no wickedness or a desire to inflict pain and, most important, there is no will to record any situation where the model is not performing willing.
In few word, a model can say "stop" and complain if she wish to talk or eventually interrupt the scene if she feel so.

Most of performers knows each other from years, they are friend on social networks, they shoot OF contents together and hangout together, and they shoot multiple scenes between each other every month.
Some do not like each other, of course this is normal.
But actually there are more boys blacklisting girls than the other way around.

Porn, is a well staged fictional movie, even when a model has a fantasy, the fantasy is fictionally staged.
Its hard physically? yes
Its hard mentally? yes
But the fact someone think its real, it is because we do it well, not because it is real.

ITs their job, not their hobby.

[TheVulture]

It's complete hypocrisy and nonsense because under that logic women shouldn't be doing any kind of porn whatsoever unless it's just for her pleasure, and that just having to perform any kind of sex without that would be equivalent to abuse.

When in reality it is no difference than flipping burgers on a McDonald's.

This basically confirms that you have an incredibly low opinion of women in porn and thus really disqualifies you from assessing porn in a sensible and objective way. Making porn scenes should be no different to minimum wage labour for women? Good grief. How depressing.

Making porn isn't "just for the pleasure" of the actress(es). It's for the pleasure of their co-performers and, crucially, audience as well. But it is certainly for their pleasure in a very direct sense and that should always be the foundation of any porn scene. Why there would need to be an extra element of "work" or even discomfort alongside that in order to justify it is beyond me. For sure some scenes might be a little more physically demanding than a girl had anticipated and everything might not fit entirely to the framework of their fantasy (this is often par for the course, I would think) but that's very different to somehow building in uncomfortable acts for them per se.

Reading your comments I just don't really understand why you watch porn. I find your view of it to be very depressing, fatalistic and ultimately joyless in a way that it never should be. Me? I want to see female lust exploding from the screen and guys capitalising on said lust in a way that makes me green with envy. That's great porn and it is neither "fiction" nor "acting".

[TheVulture]

But the fact someone think its real, it is because we do it well, not because it is real.

Good post Giorgio with some very interesting insight.

This bit I don't really agree with though because obviously it is real. A girl is being DAPed in multiple positions and is taking single anal from multiple guys etc. etc. And I'll always enjoy watching that as long as all parties are obviously enjoying it and driving each other on to insane heights of lust and pleasure. I'm not really sure why you play down the realness of your work. In effect it seems to be doing it a bit of a disservice.

Lest we forget also that your scenes are very "gonzo" with very little variation so there is very little fiction narrative element at all generally. That's fine as long as they're done very well, because suspension of disbelief is needed for great porn in the same way as for great movies. Whilst I'm always aware that your scenes are "staged" in the sense that they're booked in advance, filmed on a porn set etc. I can still momentarily "forget" that on a conscious level if the action is incredibly hot and the performers are losing themselves in the sex action.

I don't think I am ever going to completely see eye-to-eye with you in the way that you view your work and (in some ways) approach it but at least I can feed back to you that you do still tick many boxes in terms of what I'm looking for in porn. Ultimately where your scenes work best is where they look exactly as though they are not staged, scripted, rehearsed etc. but simply a bunch of horny, attractive people getting their rocks off. Again, not fiction, not acted, just great sex within the confines of a structured porn production. That's your greatest asset so continue to nurture it.

[JASON15938]

Porn, is a well staged fictional movie, even when a model has a fantasy, the fantasy is fictionally staged.
Its hard physically? yes
Its hard mentally? yes
But the fact someone think its real, it is because we do it well, not because it is real.
.

What I know is that the fiction is purely imaginary and is represented by actions performed by actors so not real but I'm not sure that the waka waka, the monsters of DAP, the pee scenes are imaginary,
Also if the porn wasn't real a lot of actresses / actors weren't going to take a break to recover

[Pineapples Studio]

You’re not understanding what Giorgio is saying here. Yes, the physical sex acts are real, but 1) they are exaggerated for visual impact in various ways, and 2) the participants are hired as performers to act out the scene for your benefit, and not for their own gratification. This is what is meant by referring to porn as a work of “fiction”.

[JASON15938]

You’re not understanding what Giorgio is saying here. Yes, the physical sex acts are real, but 1) they are exaggerated for visual impact in various ways, and 2) the participants are hired as performers to act out the scene for your benefit, and not for their own gratification. This is what is meant by referring to porn as a work of “fiction”.

THANK YOU MAN
I just read an article that says the same, now I understand correctly. But I prefer people to say that: "PORN IS A FICTITIOUS REALITY"

[Starrio]

This basically confirms that you have an incredibly low opinion of women in porn and thus really disqualifies you from assessing porn in a sensible and objective way. Making porn scenes should be no different to minimum wage labour for women? Good grief. How depressing.

Not even close, you conclude all these stupid ideas out of your ass. I was comparing it with work, any work, it doesn't matter if it is low wage or not, and it has nothing to do with them women, the same applies to men.

Porn is work you idiot. It's not for pleasure of the performer. It's for the pleasure of the audience, but because you don't understand shit I have to explain to you that it is Ok of the performer has pleasure too, it's just not necessary.

Just like any other work, like being a manager in an investment firm. It's fucking work, the investment manager doesn't require to have pleasure doing his work, he can, but it is not necessary.

And yes flipping burgers and being the manager of an investment firm is the same thing too, it's work. It has nothing to do with someone being less or more, that's just your stupid mind making those conclusions.

[Jack_Jackal43]

This basically confirms that you have an incredibly low opinion of women in porn and thus really disqualifies you from assessing porn in a sensible and objective way. Making porn scenes should be no different to minimum wage labour for women? Good grief. How depressing.

Not even close, you conclude all these stupid ideas out of your ass. I was comparing it with work, any work, it doesn't matter if it is low wage or not, and it has nothing to do with them women, the same applies to men.

Porn is work you idiot. It's not for pleasure of the performer. It's for the pleasure of the audience, but because you don't understand shit I have to explain to you that it is Ok of the performer has pleasure too, it's just not necessary.

Just like any other work, like being a manager in an investment firm. It's fucking work, the investment manager doesn't require to have pleasure doing his work, he can, but it is not necessary.

And yes flipping burgers and being the manager of an investment firm is the same thing too, it's work. It has nothing to do with someone being less or more, that's just your stupid mind making those conclusions.

There’s no point arguing with him (her?). His mind is like mine when I first started watching porn except I grew up and understood how pornstars work. He doesn’t get that we watch this type of porn because it’s a fantasy, something we don’t or can’t do in our normal lives. If he got his way and porn got soft like normal sex, a lot of men would go somewhere else or stop watching. That means less work for the girls. Honestly, don’t waste your time.


P.S: To Vulture, We have a fantasy or fetish for manhandling porn which this site offers. There’s not many sites left that still do. Everyone is consenting to it from the Actors, Actresses, Directors and everyone else involved. Stop trying to change this site like you’re some white knight who thinks he’s looking out for the girls, you’re not. There’s plenty of other sites that offer softcore caressing, love-making porn. This is the last time I interact with you. If you still don’t get, you never will.

[croydonparking]

Fictional film....

Excellent reply Giorgio. You don’t need to justify yourself to idiots! Now please do a monthly 10 on 2 creampie to other girls mouth, 20 creampies one after another. No fake cum, tongue in gape. Can I sponsor this and profit share?

[croydonparking]

This basically confirms that you have an incredibly low opinion of women in porn and thus really disqualifies you from assessing porn in a sensible and objective way. Making porn scenes should be no different to minimum wage labour for women? Good grief. How depressing.

Making porn isn't "just for the pleasure" of the actress(es). It's for the pleasure of their co-performers and, crucially, audience as well. But it is certainly for their pleasure in a very direct sense and that should always be the foundation of any porn scene. Why there would need to be an extra element of "work" or even discomfort alongside that in order to justify it is beyond me. For sure some scenes might be a little more physically demanding than a girl had anticipated and everything might not fit entirely to the framework of their fantasy (this is often par for the course, I would think) but that's very different to somehow building in uncomfortable acts for them per se.

Reading your comments I just don't really understand why you watch porn. I find your view of it to be very depressing, fatalistic and ultimately joyless in a way that it never should be. Me? I want to see female lust exploding from the screen and guys capitalising on said lust in a way that makes me green with envy. That's great porn and it is neither "fiction" nor "acting".

You said “it is certainly for their pleasure in a very direct sense”. Unless the pleasure is money, no it’s not. Sexually liberated or horny girls don’t do porn, they go out and get fucked. Anywhere. Girls who want money do porn. That involves sucking 10 creampies out of a prolapsed asshole, sucking cream or piss out of an asshole, or in premium bukakke swallowing 120 loads till they puke, facialabuse throated until puking. There was a site called extreme pain where women had competitions for money and they literally got whipped nailed to boards to the point where they were covered in bruises and real blood. I’m a doctor, it was all real, single scene shots. Do you think they do that for comfort?

This is the most hypocritical thing I’ve read in a long time. You said you don’t see why there needs to be discomfort? But you said in your other post you enjoy seeing girls DAPd?? Do you think it’s comfortable for a 20 year old to get DAPed by 9”x6” black cocks? Or punch fisted to prolapse? Or fist and dick? Or foot?

I find all that enjoyable- it’s why I spend money here and not on other sites. A lot of girls do too. The last girl I slept with wanted to be hit and punched and slapped. I wasn’t comfortable with it but she told me no one had the balls to do it hard enough for her so I did. She’s not crazy, she just wanted to be dominated. Rape fantasies are the most common fantasies for women. Because it’s part of our blood and DNA. Monkeys and primates don’t have rape. Even today, in most of the US you can rape a child but it’s legal if you marry them. In the UK you could legally rape your wife until the 90s when I was an adult... that’s how it was in most of the world, as it’s considered “wife duty”. So my best friend just slept with a black girl last week. he met her at a party A few hours before and while he was her she said “fuck me like your slave”. She wanted to be choked and tied down - The slave thing fucked him up and he told me first he almost lost his erection and by the time she said it five times he came! A lot of sex is domination/submission and while women actively complain about manhandling etc. A lot of girls like it rough. In fact, they are genetically hardwired to like it rough ie going for the alpha.

Another thing I realized over time is people talk a lot of shit, so it’s usually the hard-core anti-porn Crusaders who want to be choked and fucked like a rag doll.

[croydonparking]

Just to clarify I said “I find all that enjoyable- it’s why I spend money here and not on other sites. A lot of girls do too.”

I meant most girls do not find total domination to physical discomfort enjoyable, but a lot do. I’m not a sadist - but I find watching DAP to gape/prolapse enjoyable; for the same reason my friend likes watching girls swallow piss, bukakked, Deep Throat until they puke, and women fantasize about rich men who are super romantic/sexual/rape, men cheating on their wives for them, ie domination, submissiveness and control are important for procreation. I want the girl who lets me fuck her ass or suck a cream pie from another girls ass for me, do depraved shit they don’t necessarily enjoy, but because they would do anything for me, they would do anything for my kids... though it’s not a conscious thing...

Louis CK has a great bit on this saying why are we attracted to tits they’re just lumps of fat... but from an evolutionary perspective we like perk spherical tits because they have more milk for the baby... perk is young and fertile, sagging signals age and less fertility. He pretends to wank on stage and says “Yeahhhhh show me those tits so you can feed my baby” you can probably find the clip.

Titanic - you could call it Romance - but he also just met her and fucked her but he dies for her and that’s considered romanctic.
50 shades of grey - again, rich guy (procreation) rape fantasy (procreation).
365 days - rape kidnap fantasy popular with women.

[ryukenmaster666]

Woke like to make everything coplicated to justify they are woke but the answer is very simple :

She agrees, no problem, her business.
She didn't agree, then it is assault and should be punished.

Case closed.

Well that sounds very much to me like the zero sum game of someone likely harbouring a nasty kind of intent (ie a manhandle-at-all-costs fan).

Missed. I am not into manhandle (not that I will avoid at all cost such scenes, but I am not demanding for it. If a model I like is doing such scene I'll probably buy but not because of manhandle )

I am just sick of this mentality where some overthink for others. And people who quit their responsabilities. People must face their choices. If a woman accept to do such a scene, it is her problem. She accepted, she has to deal with it. Yes, sometimes you have to do things you don't like. I don't like to wake up early to work. I don't like to pay taxes. But that's how it is, one must get over it.

[House MD]

Well that's a shocker given the stealthy, surreptitious tip fucking, slow motion sex plaguing Giorgio productions
so yes GIO porn is fake
and yes the the 'rough' tags are fake, so are the squirts, creampies, swallowing, enhanced boobs, lips, orgasm, moaning and sound dubbing but the money those crooks make is real
It's not because a fair producer shoots fake porn that porn qualifies as fiction. There are producers like Raul Cristian who shot movies with as sparse as possible fake subterfuge to ATTRACT AUDIENCES

[Paizal]

For myself, however, there is still a difference between fiction and fake.

Of course, porn is staged in many aspects. That's normal, that's perfectly okay. What I don't like is when you are taken for a fool as a customer. For example, all these TAP scenes where you can clearly see that there is no penetration at all. Or in many scenes of this Vixen group, where penetration is also faked while the flaccid penis swings back and forth between the performer's legs. This is then no longer fiction, this is disrespect by the directors towards the paying customer.

[101mike101]

Fiction and fantasy is often better than life. Perhaps this is why many guys prefer to watch porn, rather than bang their wife.

The porn lady is often better looking. And you get to last longer with her, inside her nice ass, and not just her pussy.

Your wish is her command. And you get to bang her on demand. There is no way you can have it good like that, when you go after a real lady's butt. Unless you pay her to work with you, just like porn-ladies do.

When the hot lady is a professional, and she works with you. Then you can really get to bang her, just the way you want. Which is something to treasure and admire, because such a lady lights your lust on fire.

In amateur spontaneous sex, you often don't even know, if the lady will let you plow. So, you often don't even ask her for anal. Her pussy is good enough. And I don't see how people can say that this is better than fantasy stuff.

The difference here isn't really between fantasy and real life. They are both real in their own way. The difference is that in porn the ladies are paid to get laid, and they work with you. So, you don't need to worry and you don't need to hurry. You can do the lady at your leisure, just the way you like. She won't say no to your agreed-upon plow, unless there is a good reason for it.

But in an amateur spontaneous situation, you need to worry and you need to hurry. The lady can change her mind at any time. And she doesn't need to be reasonable about it either. Because there is often little communication, little agreement, and no promise or guarantee that she'll try to be fair with you.

If life was only about sex, then guys would choose fantasy every time. But friendship, companionship, and family life is something you also need. And that's something you can get only through amateur deed.

[Jocke]

Starrio, could you stop attacking The Vulture and instead take part in a civilised discourse?

You have different opinions, that is great and necessary for a meaningful debate. However, it is better to argue for your opinion than calling him "idiot", it just makes you look silly.

We get that you want violence and manhandling while The Vulture wants intense sex between lusting performers. LP provides both and will continue to do so, don't worry.

I am with The Vulture in that we see too much manhandling creeping into every scene and it is like if you buy a dry scene and then there is pissing or you buy a straight scene and then some guy still gets penetrated. Let dry scenes be dry, straight scenes straight and non manhandling scenes without violence. That will make everyone happy!

[Jocke]

Porn is fiction in that it is directed. The actors wouldn't do what they are doing unless told so. Maybe they would fuck each other but not exactly according to a script. The script is also trying to tell a story with fictional characters and the actors are playing the roles of those characters.

Porn is real in that what you see on the screen actually has happened. It is not CGI but it is of course edited to give a specific impression according to the producers wishes.

Acting can be more or less real. Great actors get into character in such a way that they are not "playing" but thy "are" the role figure. It is autosuggestion. Mentally they are the role figure. Some girls totally change personality in front of the camera and when called their porn name they act slutty in a way their civil personality wouldn't. You can then ask, when is she the most "real"? Maybe she is more real in her uninhibited porn persona?

In my opinion, performers who are uninhibited to such a degree that they lust for performing and get real orgasms are the most real and the most pleasurable to watch. If they are experiencing real orgasms and are not faking, then there is no difference between reality and performance. I enjoy those scenes for two reasons, one is that a real orgasm looks more real than a fake one, the other is that I sincerely want these girls to experience pleasure, it gives me pleasure to see them having a great time.

By the way, I am "woke". Please feel free to call me woke. I wear that with pride.
Cheers!

[Jocke]

Porn is work in the sense that the performers are paid to do certain things. Hopefully they have chosen a career they like but that doesn't mean that everything they do is effortless or totally painless. Pain from certain very gymnastic positions is part of the game and we all get sore sometimes from sex acts. It is still worth it. I think this is what Giorgio means. Flipping burgers is a job which is less paid and less pleasurable than sex (I imagine) but someone has to do it. Porn comes with benefits and certain efforts. As long as it is freely chosen and not out of desperation that should be ok.

When it comes to violence and manhandling, I think it is ok if it is done according to the principles outlaid by Giorgio. I will not buy it, but I do not want to prohibit stuff just because it is not my cup of tea.

[dap-addict]

3 great posts, Jocke, thanks!

What to add: I think its too much to ask from porn performers to really lust for each other on a porn set and its naive to expect that. But of course it still happens from time to time, not every scene for sure, but sometimes twice in the same scene or even more often, it happens in some special moments and these for me are the highlights in edited and consumer friendly packed porn videos.

Real orgasms on set are just one proof it happens, but sometimes a seasoned user can also feel other true primary lust, and yes, it can also happen in manhandle scenes.
Now this is a fact Vulture might deny, not because he has any agenda, but because he is demanding a different fiction in order to enjoy his porn.
Its alright, but we all should be ideally as realistic and grown-up to realize there are different needs, different truths and different motivations for all involved in porn, starting with scouts going through all actual production processes (which are work for all involved and not a hobby!) to all the joys of every given end user.

Last but not least, please dont shy away users really analyzing what they watch like Vulture!
He rises a lot of valid points and contributes a lot to make LP/AV offered porn better.

[JayJams]

Actually, it was a typo. It should have said "porn is FRICTION".

[Starrio]

Starrio, could you stop attacking The Vulture and instead take part in a civilised discourse?

You have different opinions, that is great and necessary for a meaningful debate. However, it is better to argue for your opinion than calling him "idiot", it just makes you look silly.

We get that you want violence and manhandling while The Vulture wants intense sex between lusting performers. LP provides both and will continue to do so, don't worry.

Since he started with the insults like pathetic and stuff, so it is only suiting to call it as it is, since he started trolling instead of making an actual discussion.

If he was asking for less manhandling because he doesn't like that, I can understand that, but he wasn't, he was trying to portrait LP studios as a place were porn actresses have their human rights violated.

Those are two different worlds.

[dap-addict]

(ie a manhandle-at-all-costs fan).

A reasonable person would consider the middle ground where a girl consents because she perhaps doesn't think she has a huge amount of choice (and also more generally wants to partake in the porn sex) but doesn't find certain acts she has consented to pleasurable. In that scenario the porn producer has ticked the box of consent and non-manipulation but is nonetheless not making great (ie fantasy) porn but simply tick box product for a niche market.

About how manhandle is shot on set actually, please watch this GL/GIO BTS of this Kaira Love manhandle scene and tell me what you think, Vulture: https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/217313 (minutes 28 to 46)
Original edited scene here: https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/216851

[TheVulture]

I think its too much to ask from porn performers to really lust for each other on a porn set and its naive to expect that.

It's too much to expect highly sexed, physically elite and incredibly attractive young men and women to lust for each other on a porn set? Are you sure about this?

You're obviously right that it doesn't always happen and a lot of porn is "nuts and bolts" stuff where some or all of the performers are not at the top of their game for whatever reason (akin to an elite sports man/woman not quite being at peak form) and this might still be decent. More often than not though it won't be and as a consumer the art is in seeing through that and only buying the really good stuff.

I think the problem with your analysis is that you create ready-made excuses for producers to make average porn and for the performers to just go through the motions. I'm not sure you would do that with, say, cinema or music. "Oh that wasn't a very good film but that's fine - it ticked some boxes in a mediocre kind of way, I'll take that". Would you offer that as your appraisal of a disappointing film? I don't think you would. Making excuses like you do makes me think you sort of don't give porn credit in being a valuable art form, which is odd given your obvious passion for it (and indeed near-obsession with it). Porn when it hits those genuine heights of lust is truly an amazing thing. You should celebrate that more.

Reading this thread it is really quite astonishing just how many customers of LP have incredibly low opinions of the performers whose work they consume and seem not to care if they enjoy themselves or not (and in fact in many cases seem to suggest that they have no right to enjoy their work). I find that absolutely incredible really. But no matter - I'll keep sifting through porn to find the real nuggets. And I'll never be easily fooled. "Nuts and bolts" porn doesn't cut it here I assure you, only true lust properly captured. Keep telling me I'm "naive" as much as you want. I am not listening.

[Pineapples Studio]

This thread is cancer, as I knew it would be.

[TheVulture]

This thread is cancer, as I knew it would be.

Why is it? It's interesting and certainly revealing.

I thought that was your first contribution but then I noticed this bit:

the participants are hired as performers to act out the scene for your benefit, and not for their own gratification

That's bizarre. Why do those 2 things have to be mutually exclusive? Can the performers not be having a wild lust-fuelled time and me having a (different sort of) wild lust-fuelled time watching them? And isn't the latter also kind of dependent on the former? Otherwise I might as well just look at still shots of naked women or something.

And what does "act out the scene" mean in that context? Act out hardcore fucking? Hmm. I just don't get that and again just find it all very depressing, like you don't really enjoy porn.

[OKCTwister]

What else can be said of chaps who call themselves porn professionals and justify, even glorify, porn made of a dick or a bunch of these barely stuck inside an asshole
They even have the audacity to tag these rough or hardcore
No matter what the asshole is male, female, animal, a furry hentai... as long as there is anal, you've got yourself hardcore material
This is how much shallow the conception of such a thing as rough, brutal, hardcore porn is to these people

They are totally oblivious to persistent eye contact, kissing, pussy gapes, rough handling of cocks by females, etc
Why would they change that model if they can earn the highest profit margin with the least effort invested