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Not sure how popular this thread will be but I think there are others here who like me don't enjoy the manhandle stuff so prefer to see scenes without it and with the girl(s) able to naturally show off their slutty heat without being physically overpowered by the guys' hands. So I thought it would be a good idea to try to document any scenes we come across that fit this bill and thus help fans of them to seek out these scenes (much like the excellent "heels on throughout scene" thread).

OK we need some rules. To qualify as zero manhandle the scene can't have any of the following:

Throat grabbing
Face slapping
Arm twisting
General wrestling of the girl(s) of any kind

I would also add the thing where the guy in anchor DP/DAP puts his hands behind the girl's neck to push her head forward.

If people want to mention scenes that have a very small amount of the above that's fine - they won't qualify for the zero manhandle title but will still likely be of interest to people who like the scenes in this thread.

Scenes must be of the typical type we all (I think) love at LP, ie featuring very hard anal content. There's no point referencing solo toy play scenes or pussy only etc. This thread is purely for very hard anal scenes.

I will start the ball rolling with a few recent scenes that I'm confident fit the bill.

The 3 Nadja Stone/Lapiedra Gonzo scenes (SSZ2622, SZ2623 & SZ2624)
Natashia Rios (YE108)
Chrystal Sinn (GIO1807)

5 outstanding scenes of volcanic heat level sex action.

Yummy Estudio will have quite a few that meet this criteria I think.

There are a lot more so as I come across them and rediscover older ones I'll try to do some brief reviews with pics.

OK let's see how popular this is. Hopefully it's not just me posting my faves.

Practically everything in porn is manhandle. Personally I'd rather watch film of Kizzy Sixx, or Jane Darling, or Afina Kisser walk flight of stairs than any HCP. Maybe thats just me.

Alexis Crystal (SZ2083) almost qualifies. 1 very brief bit of the head push in cg DP and 2 very quick token/pointless throat grabs. To all intents and purposes a non-manhandle scene but not quite absolute zero.

Here's a pic from each of the girls I mentioned in the first post just for completion.

I just would like to say that support this idea. I don't want rough or violent scenes. Manhandling is not sexy.

Jocke wrote:I just would like to say that support this idea. I don't want rough or violent scenes. Manhandling is not sexy.

It’s like me going to a Tushy forum and saying I don’t want anal scenes. Anal is not sexy.

Jack_Jackal43 wrote:

Jocke wrote:I just would like to say that support this idea. I don't want rough or violent scenes. Manhandling is not sexy.

It’s like me going to a Tushy forum and saying I don’t want anal scenes. Anal is not sexy.

For me, manhandling implies that the lady isn't quite willing to do it with the guys. She needs to be forced and coerced into doing it. Which is a turn off for me and probably for many other guys too.

It's a lot more sexy for me when the hot lady is in the mood to do all the guys good, and she is spreading her sexy ass-cheeks for the anal dicks on her own, rather than being forced to do so.

Manhandling the lady gives me an impression thats this lady isn't aroused and isn't in the mood. Which is a turn off for me.

Jack_Jackal43 wrote:It’s like me going to a Tushy forum and saying I don’t want anal scenes. Anal is not sexy.

Why is it? This isn't anyone going to this or any other forum and saying don't make manhandle scenes. It's people discussing non-manhandle scenes and in this case a poster saying that he doesn't like manhandle scenes generally. That's perfectly valid.

If you like manhandle scenes (and only manhandle scenes) then keep reading and contributing to the very many threads on this forum that cater to that style. This one isn't aimed at you.

101mike101 wrote:For me, manhandling implies that the lady isn't quite willing to do it with the guys. She needs to be forced and coerced into doing it. Which is a turn off for me and probably for many other guys too.

It's a lot more sexy for me when the hot lady is in the mood to do all the guys good, and she is spreading her sexy ass-cheeks for the anal dicks on her own, rather than being forced to do so.

Manhandling the lady gives me an impression thats this lady isn't aroused and isn't in the mood. Which is a turn off for me.

I think that's sometimes the case but also there are girls who do genuinely like it, such as Vicky Sol and Lydia Black. For me it's perfectly legit in those cases and I can decide whether to buy those scenes or not (most likely I'll pass for the same reason as you) but frustratingly it seems to be a bit of a default thing that shows up too often in scenes where it doesn't seem to fit and where there hasn't been any indication that the girl wants or appreciates it. In those cases I find it really spoils what would otherwise have been very good scenes.

Anyway, it's good to see that there are already quite a few people who seem receptive to this thread so let's keep posting details about scenes that fit the bill.

I have nothing at all against good passionate manhandling. It can be hot viewing pleasure.

But worst is if these 4 are used by the studs to mask own failures like wood problems, and sadly this is often the case:

TheVulture wrote:OK we need some rules. To qualify as zero manhandle the scene can't have any of the following:

Throat grabbing
Face slapping
Arm twisting
General wrestling of the girl(s) of any kind

Vulture, have you examples for this as well?
I dont quite get what you mean.
[/quote]I would also add the thing where the guy in anchor DP/DAP puts his hands behind the girl's neck to push her head forward.[/quote]
Generally it often happens that girls have to be pushed into a certain position for a better camera picture. If the girl doenst muster a good pose herself, studs have to help her assuming the position because its all done for the camera while pleasure is sure desired but comes second. Truly fan-friendly and frank porn girls will explain you these requirements of the job instead of pretending porn sex was enhanced RL sex.

I think the girl's head being pushed forward in rc DP/DAP is essentially a male dom move. I agree that it sometimes does provide a better penetration angle for DAP especially but it does also reduce the girl to a bit of a rag doll. I've also seen a few examples of girls anticipating it coming and trying to keep their head away from the guy's hands. It's a little bit of a fly in a spider's web thing. Also it isn't absolutely necessary for good rc DAP viewing as the above picture of Chrystal Sinn demonstrates. Gimme a girl beaming with pleasure like that in a relaxed manner over one having her head and neck compressed any day.

Anyway, these are my rules and I say it classes as manhandle. But as I say if there are scenes where that constitutes the only manhandle action then they certainly qualify for this thread as manhandle-lite if not zero manhandle.

Kristy Black SZ2342 is a fascinating case. This is a 50 minute scene and for just over 43 minutes it is a scorching zero manhandle anal/DAP fest with massive smiles from Kristy throughout. Sadly Angelo Godshack (who else) then decides to do some throat-grabbing in piledriver and perhaps spurred on by this, Brian Ragnastone also does some during the final sofa fucking session (before blowing his load impressively over Kristy's face).

The Godshack grabbing is (typically) quite prolonged so you can't put this down as a "blink and you'll miss it" piece of action. Nonetheless, with 43 minutes out of 50 of manhandle-free action this is clearly a winner for fans of non-manhandle. It also introduces a phenomena that all fans of manhandle on LP will have to grapple with at some point, namely that of "zoning out Godshack". There are likely to be tons of scenes in this thread where only him or his thug buddy Luca Ferrero engage in some token manhandle not fitting the overall tone of the scene. I have learned to generally avoid scenes where they are either solo or part of a 2 guy tandem but will often buy their group scenes and do my best to ignore their input.

"all fans of non-manhandle on LP" I meant to say in last para above, obv.

TheVulture wrote:Here's a pic from each of the girls I mentioned in the first post just for completion.

Are these pics fotoshot or screenshot?
If its from the foto shooting it shows nothing ofc.

TheVulture wrote:Kristy Black SZ2342 is a fascinating case. This is a 50 minute scene and for just over 43 minutes it is a scorching zero manhandle anal/DAP fest with massive smiles from Kristy throughout. Sadly Angelo Godshack (who else) then decides to do some throat-grabbing in piledriver...

Vulture, wouldnt be the relevant question for you (and not only you) whether the girl is smiling or not?
What we have here in my book is a light joyful additional action by Angelo showing the girl means more than just two orifices for him. Besides, have you ever heard porn girls comment on Angelo Godshack? Could it be an idea to listen to them in his case?
(sz2342)

TheVulture wrote:... and perhaps spurred on by this, Brian Ragnastone also does some during the final sofa fucking session (before blowing his load impressively over Kristy's face).

This footage?
Vulture, arnt you mixing a studs helping hand (for the girl as well as the camera) with manhandle here?
(sz2342)


Generally I see we are going into a deeper analysis of these scenes, which I like especially in your posts. It leads to a porn viewer discussion I miss so often here. Really glad you are back!

TheVulture wrote:I think the girl's head being pushed forward in rc DP/DAP is essentially a male dom move. I agree that it sometimes does provide a better penetration angle for DAP especially but it does also reduce the girl to a bit of a rag doll.

Not sure I understand you right: Is it this move in rc done here by Chris Diamond instead of anchoring Angelo Godshack?
(sz2342 - minute 29.00ff)

dap-addict wrote:Are these pics fotoshot or screenshot?
If its from the foto shooting it shows nothing ofc.

They're from the "Gallery" photos that come with the scene.

I'm a little amateur when it comes to posting photos/gifs etc. so have only just discovered those. I think those work OK though, don't they? Are there some better ones I could be using?

dap-addict wrote:Vulture, wouldnt be the relevant question for you (and not only you) whether the girl is smiling or not?
What we have here in my book is a light joyful additional action by Angelo showing the girl means more than just two orifices for him. Besides, have you ever heard porn girls comment on Angelo Godshack? Could it be an idea to listen to them in his case?
(sz2342)

Perfectly valid points and I'm certainly not suggesting that Godshack's throat-grabbing there is causing Kristy any distress/pain etc. However, my point is exactly like that you often make, ie is based on my own personal fantasy. This doesn't ever involve grabbing a girl's throat so I am never going to enjoy seeing it in porn, which as you rightly frequently say is all about fantasy.

For the purposes of this thread I am not going to make any kind of distinction between manhandle acts that a girl might be enjoying and those that they might not be. The point is simply that I personally do not want to see manhandle in porn so want to highlight scenes without it (or where it is at a bare minimum).

I would also add that it's a little difficult (impossible, even) to tell whether Kristy is genuinely enjoying that or if she might just be smiling out of politeness. I guess she "gets it" etc. and as a porn veteran realises she isn't in any danger or whatever so might just be playing along. But the fact that the first 43 minutes didn't have any of that suggests to me that Kristy might have specified that this was to be a non-manhandle scene. Whether that is the case or not, Godshack's actions are out of sync with the scene and seem to me to be purely "default" and perhaps selfish.

I would certainly question your suggestion that Godshack is doing it out of any sense of passion or lusty regard for Kristy. His dead-eyed, soulless general fucking style speaks in opposition to that. He is doing it to look "Alpha" or whatever I am quite sure. I find it risible - a complete turn-off.

Ultimately....about all of this I don't really care. Throat-grabbing isn't something I like to see so the fact that it is there is a negative for the purposes of this thread. The scene only qualifies for the thread in silver medal "manhandle-lite status" but that is nevertheless worthy of inclusion here.

TheVulture wrote:I think those work OK though, don't they? Are there some better ones I could be using?

They dont work for what you wanna show.
Gallery fotos are from the fotoshot usually done prior to the actual scene. Its footage without movement basically, while you are talking about the videos, thus the edited on-set action. If you wanna demonstrate a point of interest in the film you'd have to recur to the usually 250 screenshots going with the scene, as these are just singled out camera frames.

dap-addict wrote:Vulture, arnt you mixing a studs helping hand (for the girl as well as the camera) with manhandle here?
(sz2342)

No I'm fairly sure that in the build up to that, Ragnastone does a little throat-grabbing. Less prolonged and obvious than Godshack's but noneless still throat-grabbing.

dap-addict wrote:

TheVulture wrote:I think the girl's head being pushed forward in rc DP/DAP is essentially a male dom move. I agree that it sometimes does provide a better penetration angle for DAP especially but it does also reduce the girl to a bit of a rag doll.

Not sure I understand you right: Is it this move in rc done here by Chris Diamond instead of anchoring Angelo Godshack?
(sz2342 - minute 29.00ff)

No I will try to find a pic to show what I mean.

dap-addict wrote:
Gallery fotos are from the fotoshot usually done prior to the actual scene. Its footage without movement basically, while you are talking about the videos, thus the edited on-set action. If you wanna demonstrate a point of interest in the film you'd have to recur to the usually 250 screenshots going with the scene, as these are just singled out camera frames.

OK I'll see what I can do.

However, the point of this thread isn't necessarily to pinpoint bits I don't like in scenes, merely to celebrate scenes that would be of appeal to those of us who don't like manhandle. So any pic/gif from me is really just a way to promote a particular scene as the ones I've posted so far I think do quite well.

If you want to post gifs or whatever to query/challenge what I've said (as you've done here) that's fine but please remember this isn't meant to be an in-depth analysis of negative aspects but rather a celebration of scenes that essentially class as non-manhandle. As a connoisseur of LP I'm sure you'll be able to contribute many such scenes and perhaps ones I've missed.

As far as I remember he doenst!
I remember thinking his hand rested on that sofa and realizing only later that he actually hold her head for a better camera view, but also an act of kindness to her. You have to realize that most studs also help the girls to present themselves best since girls are obvious in the centre of interest to most users. This helping hands would make another valid thread.

Anyway, I'll counter-check again because this is a nice scene I haven't given enough attention in the past. This besides is another benefit of real in-sight discussions as you provoke them: Makes me re-watch some good porn!

Here is the head push thing I'm talking about.

No discussion, no debate. It is a manhandle thing for the purposes of this thread. You are very free to celebrate it elsewhere.

I do like the penetration angle for the DAP but that is more than offset by not liking the restriction on the girl and sort of reducing her to a mannequin or rag doll. It's a male dom thing. Not for me.

TheVulture wrote:Here is the head push thing I'm talking about.

No discussion, no debate. It is a manhandle thing for the purposes of this thread. You are very free to celebrate it elsewhere.

I do like the penetration angle for the DAP but that is more than offset by not liking the restriction on the girl and sort of reducing her to a mannequin or rag doll. It's a male dom thing. Not for me.

Yes Sir Vulture, agree. This is bullshit. Work through an equivalent here people (I think that's Angelo doing the head push move, he's a big muscular guy and twice the size of Francesca Palma): Get Angelo in a neck breaker hold from a World's Strongest Man competition. Roughly insert 2 cocks in Angelo's asshole.

TheVulture wrote:Here is the head push thing I'm talking about.

No discussion, no debate. It is a manhandle thing for the purposes of this thread. You are very free to celebrate it elsewhere.

I do like the penetration angle for the DAP but that is more than offset by not liking the restriction on the girl and sort of reducing her to a mannequin or rag doll. It's a male dom thing. Not for me.

Thanks, Vulture, now I understand.
Now, I understand we are not supposed to discuss, but this is a normal Full Anal Nelson DAP position. Full Anal Nelson (FAN) is a normal sexual position. So you wanna say FAN is manhandle in your book and you avoid that position?
Or do you only avoid it if its FANdap and FANdp, but not necessarily single FANanal?


Generally I do understand the idea of your OP thread and I am glad to contribute with my input about zero manhandle scenes. But first I have to understand what is manhandle and what isn't in your book and why so. Looks like you operate with a simple position definition, while for me manhandle is very much also an emotional thing.

TheVulture wrote:

dap-addict wrote:Vulture, arnt you mixing a studs helping hand (for the girl as well as the camera) with manhandle here?
(sz2342)

No I'm fairly sure that in the build up to that, Ragnastone does a little throat-grabbing. Less prolonged and obvious than Godshack's but noneless still throat-grabbing.

dap-addict wrote:As far as I remember he doenst!
I remember thinking his hand rested on that sofa and realizing only later that he actually hold her head for a better camera view, but also an act of kindness to her. You have to realize that most studs also help the girls to present themselves best since girls are obvious in the centre of interest to most users. This helping hands would make another valid thread.

Anyway, I'll counter-check again because this is a nice scene I haven't given enough attention in the past. This besides is another benefit of real in-sight discussions as you provoke them: Makes me re-watch some good porn!

Checked it: There is no throat grabbing in the build up to that Brian Ragnastone cum delivery, not even the slightest. What we have is a cut at 46.07 and after this his hand resting on the sofa is holding Kristy's head in stead. Its not very visible in this gif, but this is all that happens.
In the course of shooting stud obviously needed more time to be ready to cum and this walking footage was cut out later during editing. He probably wanked himself ready standing on the floor or sitting on the sofa and than jumped into position once he felt he would be ready to shoot it off soon.


Now what makes me wonder is why your fantasy gets so much disturbed by Angelo's prior throat grabbing that you also attribute it to Brian? It sure shows me you have very strong feelings about it, so strong they disturb your further reception of that scene.

In a broader sense porn watching is always based on users mood and users fantasy. But this fantasy should still be based on facts not fata morgana if we start to ask studios to shoot non-manhandle or the opposite manhandle scenes.
Finally me, I would always also add the girls communicated mood (smile, indifference, protest, pain etc.) as well as BTS tech stuff of porn shootings. Its a full packed imho, but sure still based on users fantasy.

dap-addict wrote:Thanks, Vulture, now I understand.
Now, I understand we are not supposed to discuss, but this is a normal Full Anal Nelson DAP position. Full Anal Nelson (FAN) is a normal sexual position. So you wanna say FAN is manhandle in your book and you avoid that position?
Or do you only avoid it if its FANdap and FANdp, but not necessarily single FANanal?

Generally I do understand the idea of your OP thread and I am glad to contribute with my input about zero manhandle scenes. But first I have to understand what is manhandle and what isn't in your book and why so. Looks like you operate with a simple position definition, while for me manhandle is very much also an emotional thing.

Just any of them. You say it's a normal position but that's quite a broad definition of normal. I've only ever seen it in very recent porn. Maybe exclusively on LP but possibly on other sites like Evil Angel as well.

I'm fairly sure very few of us have ever tried that in real life with our sexual partners. It isn't "normal" in any generally accepted sense of the word. It's very much a male dom porn position and I would think extraordinarily uncomfortable (and not a little dangerous) for the girl. Which isn't me saying they're being bullied/exploited/blah blah blah before the thin-skinned defenders of LP and its studs' integrity get all in a froth.

dap-addict wrote:Checked it: There is no throat grabbing in the build up to that Brian Ragnastone cum delivery, not even the slightest. What we have is a cut at 46.07 and after this his hand resting on the sofa is holding Kristy's head in stead. Its not very visible in this gif, but this is all that happens.
In the course of shooting stud obviously needed more time to be ready to cum and this walking footage was cut out later during editing. He probably wanked himself ready standing on the floor or sitting on the sofa and than jumped into position once he felt he would be ready to shoot it off soon.

Now what makes me wonder is why your fantasy gets so much disturbed by Angelo's prior throat grabbing that you also attribute it to Brian? It sure shows me you have very strong feelings about it, so strong they disturb your further reception of that scene.

In a broader sense porn watching is always based on users mood and users fantasy. But this fantasy should still be based on facts not fata morgana if we start to ask studios to shoot non-manhandle or the opposite manhandle scenes.
Finally me, I would always also add the girls communicated mood (smile, indifference, protest, pain etc.) as well as BTS tech stuff of porn shootings. Its a full packed imho, but sure still based on users fantasy.

Well I watched the scene on DVD the other night and I was certain Ragnastone did a throat grab while he was crouched over Kristy. I'll take your word for it that he didn't as I'm not likely to come across the scene again in a while. That only serves to enhance its non-manhandle credentials and further isolate Godshack so it's fine with me either way.

TheVulture wrote:Well I watched the scene on DVD the other night...

On DVD?
How?


Btw, googled FAN and learned this is a wrestling hold deemed illegal in wrestling. Interesting. Anyway, I tried it in single anal with my GF but its not as easy as it looks like in porn. Wouldnt call it dangerous or submissive or manhandle though. We actually both had a good laugh and some great sex afterwards.
But anyway, with 'normal' I wanted to state it is just a - maybe more recent - porn sex position. It is a sex position, not manhandle per se. But if you dont like it for whatever reason, sure this is your thread. And also sure I try to find you more scenes fitting your ideal porn menue.
I just would like to add that with such examples above you should also consider what I would call the Kristy Black factor: Kristy is really a good example of a girl enjoying what she performs and enjoying it differently depending on her chemistry with each stud. You can see this clearly in sz2342. Maybe look for once how she reacts on Angelo and take this into account. Just an idea!

dap-addict wrote:On DVD?
How?


Btw, googled FAN and learned this is a wrestling hold deemed illegal in wrestling. Interesting. Anyway, I tried it in single anal with my GF but its not as easy as it looks like in porn. Wouldnt call it dangerous or submissive or manhandle though. We actually both had a good laugh and some great sex afterwards.
But anyway, with 'normal' I wanted to state it is just a - maybe more recent - porn sex position. It is a sex position, not manhandle per se. But if you dont like it for whatever reason, sure this is your thread. And also sure I try to find you more scenes fitting your ideal porn menue.
I just would like to add that with such examples above you should also consider what I would call the Kristy Black factor: Kristy is really a good example of a girl enjoying what she performs and enjoying it differently depending on her chemistry with each stud. You can see this clearly in sz2342. Maybe look for once how she reacts on Angelo and take this into account. Just an idea!

I'm not very techy and also quite old school so I prefer to burn my scenes to DVD and watch them on my big screen telly. Even though they're just blank discs essentially I prefer the idea of having a "physical" porn collection than on a hard drive or whatever. It gives my LP viewing a random "shuffle" element as I just number the discs so I don't generally know what's on there until I put it on. Usually 4 scenes per disc in HD resolution (no higher). So it could be a week or a year before I come across that Kristy scene again!

On the point of the full nelson I commented quite a while back that it reminds me of the "crusher" tackle that is outlawed in rugby league (arguably the toughest sport in the world). Defined as downward pressure on the back of a player's neck which can cause serious neck or spinal injury. So then consider a similar action by alpha male studs on frail women during gangbang sex and make your own judgement as to whether it is entirely safe.

Well seeing as you raised the issue of chemistry I will just point out that with that Godshack throat-grab on Kristy you can clearly see from your gif that she is smiling both before and after the grab but not during. But as I say I don't care about the chemistry or consensual nature of manhandle, I simply reject it as I am only aroused by seeing women responding naturally to being fucked hard where both the guy(s) and girl are totally into it and fucking as physical equals. I can't change my brain function to be aroused by male dom porn however much the girl is into it and wouldn't want to.

TheVulture wrote:I simply reject it as I am only aroused by seeing women responding naturally to being fucked hard where both the guy(s) and girl are totally into it and fucking as physical equals. I can't change my brain function to be aroused by male dom porn however much the girl is into it and wouldn't want to.

Dont worry, I accept this. Its just the way you are working and you build your porn fantasy.

For me porn watching experience is more complicated in a way since the girls reactions are crucial, I am probably much more dwelling on emotional content. And for some years already I also take into account a lot of bts and/or basic shooting tech stuff. It is a reality infused and corrected porn fantasy I'd call it. Its still interesting and arousing, though.

Anyway, its interesting to see you jumping on a performer most studios want to work with because of his high emotional compatibility with the girls and the crew.

TheVulture wrote:OK we need some rules. To qualify as zero manhandle the scene can't have any of the following:

Throat grabbing
Face slapping
Arm twisting
General wrestling of the girl(s) of any kind

I would also add the thing where the guy in anchor DP/DAP puts his hands behind the girl's neck to push her head forward.

Btw, as you probably know I am usually more in the manhandle boat than the zero manhandle one. What a really hate however is fake violence to compensate missing manhandling emotions. Most manhandling scenes after Mike Angelo's departure from LP have not much in common with real manhandling since what we talk about is an affirmative lust in dominance/submission play, the lust of both girl(s) and stud(s) of course. It needs a certain mindset and not just gestures.
You, by defining zero manhandle out of emotional context and chemistry actually contribute to a technocratic view of manhandle based solely on positions and grips of stud's hand(s) and legs. It reminds me a bit of some recent Russian failed manhandle (sic!) scenes where it is clear that neither director, nor studs, nor girl(s) understood what's about.

TheVulture wrote:To qualify as zero manhandle the scene can't have any of the following:

Throat grabbing
(...)

Vulture, I have a context question: Is this here throat grabbing in OP sense?
I realize it's 'red flag' Angelo again working with Alexa Flexy, but doesn't he just help her getting into the previously agreed position highlighting her ballet training?

Time for the first entry from Interracial Vision, which is in some ways a little late as IV is I think the most compatible LP stable for this category. I would hazard a guess that about 90% of IV scenes fit the zero manhandle bill, which is one reason why I own a lot of them. I did have some issues with IV around poor camerawork (way too much close-up generally) and the guys being "too cool for school" in rarely if ever making any noise but one thing you could guarantee about their scenes is that they would be a "no nonsense" form of hardcore sex with the studs' hands very rarely if ever going near the girls' head/neck/face etc. meaning always the chance to relish the girl's natural and relaxed reaction.

I've gone for Lydia Black IV294 partly because it's a great scene and maybe my fave of hers (this and the 2nd IV scene she did at around the same time are my 2 fave Lydia scenes for sure) but also as she is a great case study of a girl that did both manhandle and non-manhandle scenes for LP. Before and after these 2 IV scenes she did much rougher stuff with Giorgio and one of her later Giorgio scenes (which I bought but quickly regretted) is a perfect example of how as the porn sex gets rougher it also very often gets softer; said scene had loads of guys who spent so much time and energy roughing Lydia up (choking, twisting, foot-on-head etc.) that they hardly even bothered to fuck her. So you pays your money and takes your choice but with those scenes Lydia definitely proves that rougher does not always equate to harder in the language of porn (I would personally argue that the reverse is more accurate).

This one is great - tons of anal, DP and DAP and slightly surprisingly for IV, really well shot throughout. And Lydia's outfit (her own I suspect) is super sexy. From memory the 2nd Lydia IV scene of that time had a better "wow!" moment with the initial pounding single anal as Lydia's facial reaction is incredible - a perfect mixture of "oh yes!" and "OMG!" But this is the one I've landed on via my DVD shuffle so for now I can only accurately vouch for this one and it is definitely a zero manhandle scene and one of the highest quality.

dap-addict wrote:Vulture, I have a context question: Is this here throat grabbing in OP sense?
I realize it's 'red flag' Angelo again working with Alexa Flexy, but doesn't he just help her getting into the previously agreed position highlighting her ballet training?

Yes it's a throat grab so it's manhandle. It's Angelo Godshack ffs. I appreciate what you say about the positioning but as ever you are too generous around this stuff. Be real - he isn't doing that purely to create the correct position. It serves 2 purposes for him. And there would be ways to shape her into that position without grabbing her throat. One LP guy in particular who I find is really good at re-positioning the girls with his hands is Thomas Lee and he generally does it by moving the girl's hips or much lighter movements of their upper body.

TheVulture wrote:From memory the 2nd Lydia IV scene of that time had a better "wow!" moment with the initial pounding single anal as Lydia's facial reaction is incredible - a perfect mixture of "oh yes!" and "OMG!"

Avoid the 2nd IV scene of Lydia as this one has really lots of throat grabbing and at one point one of Joachims studs even puts his feet on her throat.
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/42724

Vulture, would this scene qualify as zero manhandle?
There is some very short FAN footage in it, thats the problem. But than again I still regard it as a normal position, here done in an move in order to try her get off.
(OB001 - https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/216859)

dap-addict wrote:Avoid the 2nd IV scene of Lydia as this one has really lots of throat grabbing and at one point one of Joachims studs even puts his feet on her throat.
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/42724

Ah that's interesting. I already have the scene and do recall liking it, although it's probably a case of just liking certain sections as is often the case. We know that Lydia is generally a fan of rough stuff and IV tended to steer well clear of it so I wonder if Lydia specifically asked them to do that and they made an exception? The feet on the throat would suggest so as you really never saw anything like that from IV generally. As I say, I have no issue with manhandle with an obviously manhandle-friendly performer like Lydia and did certainly buy some of her manhandle scenes just because I'm such a fan of hers. But that is not something I will do too often and I'm not likely to buy any of Lydia's future scenes I don't think given her trajectory in that direction.