PornBox.com

This thread is about the porn business. I am confused by my observations and thought that it could be worthwhile to learn from others experiences and knowledge.
This is not promotion of other porn suppliers, just trying to understand how it all fit together so I hope we can have this discussion where LP/Analvids is viewed as one actor in a bigger picture?

For many years there were a few established porn sites and you quickly learned their niche and quality level. Many of the VHS era producers did not make the shift to internet and started to disappear.
Then many new producers and amateurs started sites. Then came free (ad paid) sites, often with stolen content.

At the moment we have the largest "free" site owners having bought several of the traditional pay sites and are transforming them, I guess to make it easier to maintain from IT perspective but I guess also to "industrialise" production.

From a consumer perspective it can be very confusing. What do I get? what is the business model. How do I avoid tricky deals?

I spend more money than ever on porn, mainly here, because I think the content is better as I prefer more explicit porn, but there are many categories missing too.

I wonder how the business models will change. Will pay per scene grow or decline? My expectation is that it will only grow for extreme content. Traditional Brazzers, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan... will probably not be able to carry such a model unless they go more extreme.

I am also wondering if we will at some point be saturated with porn? There are already millions of scenes accessible for free and still more is produced. It should be sufficient you think for most people to just consume what is already out there? The main reason new porn was requested I think was the continuous improvement of resolution, from VGA to 4k. Maybe VR is the next thing, I don't know. Another reason is that performers have become celebrities and you want to see them develop and watch their latest scene while chatting with them in social media. What else?

What are your thoughts and insights into what is driving this business?

Jocke wrote:This thread is about the porn business. I am confused by my observations and thought that it could be worthwhile to learn from others experiences and knowledge.
This is not promotion of other porn suppliers, just trying to understand how it all fit together so I hope we can have this discussion where LP/Analvids is viewed as one actor in a bigger picture?

For many years there were a few established porn sites and you quickly learned their niche and quality level. Many of the VHS era producers did not make the shift to internet and started to disappear.
Then many new producers and amateurs started sites. Then came free (ad paid) sites, often with stolen content.

At the moment we have the largest "free" site owners having bought several of the traditional pay sites and are transforming them, I guess to make it easier to maintain from IT perspective but I guess also to "industrialise" production.

From a consumer perspective it can be very confusing. What do I get? what is the business model. How do I avoid tricky deals?

I spend more money than ever on porn, mainly here, because I think the content is better as I prefer more explicit porn, but there are many categories missing too.

I wonder how the business models will change. Will pay per scene grow or decline? My expectation is that it will only grow for extreme content. Traditional Brazzers, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan... will probably not be able to carry such a model unless they go more extreme.

I am also wondering if we will at some point be saturated with porn? There are already millions of scenes accessible for free and still more is produced. It should be sufficient you think for most people to just consume what is already out there? The main reason new porn was requested I think was the continuous improvement of resolution, from VGA to 4k. Maybe VR is the next thing, I don't know. Another reason is that performers have become celebrities and you want to see them develop and watch their latest scene while chatting with them in social media. What else?

What are your thoughts and insights into what is driving this business?

Heavy stuff. This is problem with forum. I just want to press 'like' button...?

Jocke wrote:I am also wondering if we will at some point be saturated with porn? There are already millions of scenes accessible for free and still more is produced. It should be sufficient you think for most people to just consume what is already out there? The main reason new porn was requested I think was the continuous improvement of resolution, from VGA to 4k.

I know nothin about the payment model question.
But here I dont think it will ever be enough porn as long as there are ppl with buying capacity out there, ppl who can still spend money for entertainment. Main reason for new scenes being requested is not as much technical developpement as just the simple fact that consumers brain gets attached to certain girls and you want more with them featuring. Call it addiction, call it compensation, call it a forbidden fruit, call it whatever you want.

Random thoughts:
There will always be new players entering even the most crowded marketplace. A few years ago Vixen group arrived and pushed ther way in. A few years ago there was no [spam].
There will always be old-established players getting complacent and resting on their laurels, getting bought out or going bust.
Internet has made it easy for content producers to reach potential consumers, and allowed consumers to pick and choose from a much wider range of available product.

dap-addict wrote:

Jocke wrote:I am also wondering if we will at some point be saturated with porn? There are already millions of scenes accessible for free and still more is produced. It should be sufficient you think for most people to just consume what is already out there? The main reason new porn was requested I think was the continuous improvement of resolution, from VGA to 4k.

I know nothin about the payment model question.
But here I dont think it will ever be enough porn as long as there are ppl with buying capacity out there, ppl who can still spend money for entertainment. Main reason for new scenes being requested is not as much technical developpement as just the simple fact that consumers brain gets attached to certain girls and you want more with them featuring. Call it addiction, call it compensation, call it a forbidden fruit, call it whatever you want.

I think porn actresses have much in common with athletes in a way. We want to get excited by new talents and follow our favourites as they progress, not watch highlights from years past. Old scenes may be good enough for casual consumers, but I sincerely doubt that they pay for their content anyway, so they don't move the market like paying customers do.

Jocke wrote:This thread is about the porn business. I am confused by my observations and thought that it could be worthwhile to learn from others experiences and knowledge.
This is not promotion of other porn suppliers, just trying to understand how it all fit together so I hope we can have this discussion where LP/Analvids is viewed as one actor in a bigger picture?

For many years there were a few established porn sites and you quickly learned their niche and quality level. Many of the VHS era producers did not make the shift to internet and started to disappear.
Then many new producers and amateurs started sites. Then came free (ad paid) sites, often with stolen content.

At the moment we have the largest "free" site owners having bought several of the traditional pay sites and are transforming them, I guess to make it easier to maintain from IT perspective but I guess also to "industrialise" production.

From a consumer perspective it can be very confusing. What do I get? what is the business model. How do I avoid tricky deals?

I spend more money than ever on porn, mainly here, because I think the content is better as I prefer more explicit porn, but there are many categories missing too.

I wonder how the business models will change. Will pay per scene grow or decline? My expectation is that it will only grow for extreme content. Traditional Brazzers, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan... will probably not be able to carry such a model unless they go more extreme.

I am also wondering if we will at some point be saturated with porn? There are already millions of scenes accessible for free and still more is produced. It should be sufficient you think for most people to just consume what is already out there? The main reason new porn was requested I think was the continuous improvement of resolution, from VGA to 4k. Maybe VR is the next thing, I don't know. Another reason is that performers have become celebrities and you want to see them develop and watch their latest scene while chatting with them in social media. What else?

What are your thoughts and insights into what is driving this business?

Excellent and highly interesting post.
I do agree with you here that the improvement of resolution plays a decisive role.
Sexual practices do also evolve and it plays a role, but there's a point where you can't do "more" any more I would say TAP is the maximum, but who knows).

You mention virtually every important aspect but perhaps not girls' looks. Today, no hair any more, but plenty of tattoos. (for instance). People might want to watch a girl who looks like a student of nowadays.

But in my case, the resolution is the decisive point.

I have recently given feedback regarding camera work. I have noticed the difference between ok and great camera work. Resolution isn't a problem anymore so now it is about getting the angles and the framing right. A great camera man can move in with close ups and out for full view without you noticing. He moves the camera where you want your gaze to go and he does it at the perfect timing. Then editing can make a huge difference too. Directing isn't easy either. How do you get dynamic without rushing it?

I think Giorgio is phenomenal. I haven't watched any other porn that comes close. It is as if he reads my mind. When I think "let her dip her tongue in that buttrose" and she immediately does it it is amazing!

Digitally-rendered porn will be massive and replace a huge part of the current market.

Producers will move into creating 3D mapped vector film images (filmed in those all over cgi suits covered in sensors, that are then mapped into a vector of the scene to have skins added later). They will sell these to artists who make the skins.

Performers will copyright their images and these will be mapped onto skins to be added to the vector films to produce the finished film.

Porn websites will be more like vending machines than cinemas.
You choose your performer(s), content (1-1, DP, DAP, BDSM, etc), then if you want her/him to appear as a brunette or a blonde, with tattoes or not, in stockings or barefoot, and so on. All the variations possible. Then pay.

The algorithm then creates the scene (quantum computing will be here within the decade and will eclipse all imaginable processing speeds now) and sends it to you.

If you have not been paying attention to how quickly 3D rendered porn art (poser/DAZ etc) has developed over last decade you will not understand any of this. The only thing holding it back is investment from major entertainment conglomerates, but demand is there and growing.

Home video players boomed with possibility of creating/watching porn at home.
Home PCs boomed with internet and possibility of downloading porn to watch at home.
This is next porn-led big tech leap.

Finally some 3D art.
Support these artists (follow them and maybe even commission work from them, as they are currently relying on Patreon until boom arrives). Maybe AnalVids could/should team up with them and commission sets to sell on the site.

https://slushe.com/GenX3dx


https://slushe.com/3dzen


https://slushe.com/Powerup3dx

If you were not already aware of this, this is the fully functioning proof of concept in practice, right here and right now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/10/tech ... ruise.html

I do not think it is obvious which future scenario will become real.

Technology to fake things might as well create a yearning for ultra real sensations.

Camming has got the performers closer to the viewer. It is real time and the communication can be bidirectional. You can get her moist underwear in the mail afterwards. Porn will also get competition from Tinder dating, sexting, tiktok etc. New tech can fake but can also bring people closer. Probably both scenarios will coexist.

Porn is somehow like wrestling.
There are top federations, secondary federations and amateur federations.
Each federation has an own audience.

In general performers and trainers try to climb on a better federation.

What is stupid and pointless if to try to make an amateur federation to became a professional. It is simply not possible because they do not have the structure to do it.

Websites like [spam] are done for everyone. [spam] do not offer any audience to the performer, it offer just a platform where the performers can "monetise" their own followers.

The wider is the audience of the federation you performer for, the better will be your results on [spam].

-

Back to reality, we are going into a shithole.
Back in the day, the smaller production were the ones who were able to find new model. They focused on this, their sales depended from new quality models.
Largest production focused on the quality of the content and the new models dreamed to arrive to them

Now,
we have the largest production also finding the models and the smaller production just hooking models on social network to shoot few scenes and make few bucks.
This bring to the point that smaller production are not doing anymore their primary job and it create unbalance in the flow of new models.

Next step (something is already happening) will be that the small productions will be absorbed and incorporated by the largest.

End of games

Giorgio Grandi wrote:Porn is somehow like wrestling.
There are top federations, secondary federations and amateur federations.
Each federation has an own audience.

In general performers and trainers try to climb on a better federation.

What is stupid and pointless if to try to make an amateur federation to became a professional. It is simply not possible because they do not have the structure to do it.

Websites like [spam] are done for everyone. [spam] do not offer any audience to the performer, it offer just a platform where the performers can "monetise" their own followers.

The wider is the audience of the federation you performer for, the better will be your results on [spam].

-

Back to reality, we are going into a shithole.
Back in the day, the smaller production were the ones who were able to find new model. They focused on this, their sales depended from new quality models.
Largest production focused on the quality of the content and the new models dreamed to arrive to them

Now,
we have the largest production also finding the models and the smaller production just hooking models on social network to shoot few scenes and make few bucks.
This bring to the point that smaller production are not doing anymore their primary job and it create unbalance in the flow of new models.

Next step (something is already happening) will be that the small productions will be absorbed and incorporated by the largest.

End of games

I would suggest to smaller productions to organize exclusive parties where you can pitch offers to those interested through word of mouth and yes, also social media.

This way they can meet other girls that already do it to see how normal it actually is, and have their questions answered on the spot.

I have no idea what the laws are there, but we get laid like this in the States, we make big parties to attract models that want to put cool pictures on their Instagram and appear next to other cool models.

I guess the alcohol part is tricky because if you are asking someone to commit to anything it is better if they are sober.

Other options we use is to have party retreats, and even cruise trips. We really try everything.

But having other hot girls to do the talking for you is the biggest because very hot girls are a huge magnet to attract more attractive girls because they provide that sense of normality to the whole thing.

For porn producers I guess social media is still huge because money talks regardless of the platform, and having a name in the industry can exponentially help new models in terms of exposure.

I don't know what the laws are in Czech Republic, but I remember in Latin America they had classified ads on newspapers and magazines for straight up prostitution, so I imagine for porn it is a lot easier to place these ads which are often economic publicity.

I guess TikTok, Snapchat, Twitter, and even Instagram can also work the same way. WhatsApp chains, and Facebook pages too.

The girls are being made every day, and many offers are hard to pass specially for those just starting out looking to become more independent, and if they have acquiantances that tell them they already did it, then the easier is for them to say yes.

I am starstruck! Giorgio posted in my thread

Next step (something is already happening) will be that the small productions will be absorbed and incorporated by the largest.

Without an understanding of this specific business, I know that there are successful partnerships between small innovative startups and big corporations. In many cases the big ones do not understand what makes the small ones unique and squash them but there are cases where they do and just provide financial support, production support, infrastructure or customer reach without interfering in the art. Hopefully you know what you can negotiate and not.

Watersports
I'd like to elaborate a little bit on watersports. I have watched porn for more than 30 years and during that time anal sex has been able to maintain its profile as being that little extra dirty that you need to tickle your fantasies. It hasn't worn out. Today there are more anal porn than ever and the attraction is still there. Yes it has developed with straight to the A, 0% pussy, multi penetrations and buttroses, but the fascination of anal penetration is still there.

The next big thing is watersports. Yes, I know it is not new but that was the same with anal sex. The thing is to explore it and scale it. Nobody do watersports as well as the main studios on Analvids. I'd say it is much better than dedicated wet channels, which seem to be too small and not sufficiently professional. My guess is that watersports can break out of its niche and become as popular as anal. Porn consumers are wild about squirting, which of course is just a way to circumvent US obscenity laws. Nobody thinks it is obscene any longer and I think people are tired of watching the girl rub her pussy in a frenzy when peeing. Big US stars have tattoos with "Urinal" on the inside of under lips and do watersports on their [spam]. I think this is one reason for OF popularity. The filming is shit but the content is extraordinaire.

Analvids can provide wet content due to European laws. It is the same with PornHub based in Canada, at least for amateur wet content. I don't know how their purge will end.
I know too little of the business to make any recommendations but I think the experts in wet content will be the winners in the next era. It could be through changes to US laws or it could be wider use of VPN?
Judging from the dramatic increase in wet content since the dry spell, I assume that it sells well. I just guess that it could be expanded to a bigger audience.

Myself, I buy almost every wet scene and definitely if there are more than one girl, so maybe I am biased.

Starrio
Recruiting is a very complicated and complex job. There are people specialized with it, you con invest a lot of money to do it, but you need the right person to do it. Most of recruiters are freelancer, they dont work on salary as it is not convenient for them. You cant just make ADS and have someone to answer to emails, it deosnt work.

Jocke
Maybe I did not express myself correctly previously: what I meant is that is not worth to have your own website, but it is better to use an existing platform. Somehow big company absorb producers when they give a proper and innovative platform to publish the content.
Producer keep someone to be independent, chosing what to shoot accordingly to his personal taste or if he is smart, accordingly to the market.
In the last 2 years I got several offer to shoot for other platform and websites, I turned down the offer without to even consider it deeply as the gap in the future prospective was so huge it was not necessary even to consider it.

Regarding the niches, well this is a different topic. Watersport are a conseguence of the market, not a way to create a market. A market nowadays exist regardless we shoot the content for it, the problems is to have the right audience to sell the content into a niche.
Example: chubby girls do not sell properly on pornbox (at least not for me). This is not because no one wants to watch chubby girls, but because the audience on PB do not.
So, to release content with chubby girls, means pornbox needs to have the right customers for it, and this could take time, investment in traffic and a lot of scenes that generate less then the production cost.
Not every investment is worth the money it cost.

I followed a topic about wet lesbian content, the idea is not wrong, but this is absolutely not the right moment to do it.
To have 2 models into a lesbian scene, when there is not access to a huge database of models, doesnt mean to invest into a new market, it means to divest from the market that actually sustain us.

Remember we have a lot of limitation with the possibility to shoot models from 3/4 of the world. I am personally using 1/3, even less, of the possibile talents available.
When covid travel restrictions will be lifted, watersports may be apparently decreased as we will have more new talents where watersport are not necessary to keep good sales, specially on first 2-5 scenes.
This doesnt mean we will release less watersport, this mean I will have more dry scenes that will restore some balance between wet and dry content.

Giorgio Grandi wrote:Recruiting is a very complicated and complex job. There are people specialized with it, you con invest a lot of money to do it, but you need the right person to do it. Most of recruiters are freelancer, they dont work on salary as it is not convenient for them. You cant just make ADS and have someone to answer to emails, it deosnt work. ....

Perhaps recruiting the ladies to do porn can be made a lot easier and less complicated, if the ladies don't need to show their face, and they are guaranteed to have some anonymity.

Because by far the biggest reason why many sex-worker women don't want to do porn is that they want to protect their privacy and avoid the negative social consequences of revealing who they are and what they do.

With today's computer technology, it might be possible to modify or disguise the lady's face. Or it might even be possible to replace her face with someone else's face to hide her identity. And this can even enhance porn, rather than take away from it. Because you can make the lady's face look more attractive with such techniques.

I suppose the easiest way to do it, would be to use a face mask to hide the lady's face. Covid-19 porn has some popularity too. Lots of people are wearing masks in public places nowadays. So, making porn with people wearing such masks would be realistic, and it might work well.

Giorgio Grandi wrote:Starrio
I followed a topic about wet lesbian content, the idea is not wrong, but this is absolutely not the right moment to do it.
To have 2 models into a lesbian scene, when there is not access to a huge database of models, doesnt mean to invest into a new market, it means to divest from the market that actually sustain us.

Wouldn't filming such a scene as Part 1 of a 2 parter decrease the risk? So the first part of a scene is the lesbian part, then all the guys come in for Part 2? I mean, maybe not enough people would buy the first part anyway, but just an idea.

bdsmpretty wrote:Digitally-rendered porn will be massive and replace a huge part of the current market. ...

I agree that digitally rendered porn has a big future. But I think it works best for porn video games, rather than for making porn movies.

Because digitally rendered porn is time-consuming, difficult, and expensive to make. So, it makes sense to use digital porn for a video game that guys can play and enjoy many times, rather than just watch one time and forget about it. People are willing to pay a lot more for a good video game, than they are willing to pay for a movie. And that's how you can justify the extra time, difficulty, and expense of making digital porn.

And of course, you can have a mix of both real and digital porn. Computers might be used in the future to change the lady's face and hide her identity. Or it can be used to enhance the lady's looks, without her actually having to go for plastic surgery.

Digital porn will create a new form of porn for people to enjoy, rather than replace existing porn. But it's true that porn-fans, who get carried away with playing porn video games, probably will watch less porn movies. Because there is only so much time a guy can spend on porn.

I think porn video games can make sex storylines a lot more interesting and more entertaining, than porn movies. You can even take a first-person kind of shooter game and make it a 3rd person point of view for a hot lady all the monsters to do. The hot lady can be the main heroine on a quest to find some magical cure for saving her mother's life, or something like that. She will meet all kinds of guardians and monsters, who stand in her way. But her nice, big tits have magical powers. And all of these guardians and monsters are seduced, when she pops out her tits right in their face. She bangs her way through all the guardians and monsters and leaves them powerless groaning and moaning, after they shoot their cum on her pussy, tits, and bum. Pussy, ass, DP. The lady bars no hole and takes on all the poles. Nail her good they all really do. And everyone is satisfied, with no violence at all with this hot girl.

And the moral of such a video game would be that sex and love is better than violence and war. The hot lady gets what she wants. And everybody else is satisfied too.

davebowman wrote:

Giorgio Grandi wrote:Starrio
I followed a topic about wet lesbian content, the idea is not wrong, but this is absolutely not the right moment to do it.
To have 2 models into a lesbian scene, when there is not access to a huge database of models, doesnt mean to invest into a new market, it means to divest from the market that actually sustain us.

Wouldn't filming such a scene as Part 1 of a 2 parter decrease the risk? So the first part of a scene is the lesbian part, then all the guys come in for Part 2? I mean, maybe not enough people would buy the first part anyway, but just an idea.

Yes, I considered this option already

Star-based models replace market-based. Porn producers get more and more confused at getting certain girls exclusive for themselves than others.

Girls who don't get to be stars go to places like LegalPorno, having to do more extreme fetishes to please the crowd.

That is basically what happens in Japan. Consumers seek certain girls and porn producers try to get exclusive contracts for them. Those not on the top of the pyramid do things like anal, deepthroat and intense BDSM.

Anna DeVille is at the top of the Pyramid, shoots occasionally with big US studios but seem to prefer more extreme sex and I guess an opportunity for more influence.

Limiting my opinion to just the Pornbox.

First I'll describe what perfect porn, looks like in my head.

It's a combination of, exceptionally good looking women,
think: Nicole Black, Kristy Black, Mina, Cindy Shine, Evelia Darling, to name a few,
paired with strong, driven and dominant male actors, like Mike Angelo, Mike Chapman,
Rocco, Nacho, Ed Junior, Kid Jamaica, etc.

(I hate, with passion, guys who don't have initiative or creativity and need to be told what to do)

plus, loving camera work, minimalist makeup style, excellent illumination.
And preferably in gangbang format, where 1 female takes on multiple guys,
but where the number of guys or their skin color, is not as important as their quality.

THIS, doesn't exist anymore.

Now, is women, doing gangbangs, without the part of being:
"exceptionally good looking"
and men, whos only qualification is, "having a dick". lol

none of the fundamentals.

There are some new exceptionally gifted talents like Oscar Batty, John Price, Mark Dozer etc.... Who seem to take initiative and drive but much more in cooperation with the ladies. This means much better harmony and flow compared to those guys who are just brutal and thinks the girl is just a fuck doll.
Then I agree, Mike Angelo, Mike Chapman and kid Jamaica are great, so is Christian Clay and in my opinion Marcus Dupree who seem to have fallen of the piedestal just because he went overseas. Rocco was great 10 years ago. Manuel Ferrara was great 15 years ago. Steve Holmes is still great.

I feel the same way as you magizi87. Unfortunately we buy what we get with our favorite models, since while quality has gone down, gangbangs outside of AV are even worse.

The rougher the better. No smiles ever. Crying, suffering, struggling are the BEST!

bringtheheat66 wrote:The rougher the better. No smiles ever. Crying, suffering, struggling are the BEST!

You need to seek professional help before you hurt someone! Seriously!