Pornhub purges it's content.

[DukeBishop]

Sp [spam] has just purged it's unverified content after MasterCard & Visa cut ties. The site has gone from over 13 million videos to just under 3 million in 24 hours. Some unverified videos still exist but are currently flagged under review meaning they most likely will also be removed from the site. Downloads are also removed but payable downloads are only available from the uploading user. The beginning of the end for [spam]? I expect them to lose traffic massively now.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/14/221 ... d-verified

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/visa-maste ... s-pornhub/

[Pineapples Studio]

An interesting development. In Pornhub's case, this move is likely justified, but I wonder what kind of knock-on effects it may have on the industry as a whole.

[InsideA41YearOldGirl]

When the same concerns about child pornography were brought on Tumblr, that site banned all porn and the traffic took a nosedive so deep that its price went from one billion to 3 million in a question of months. Of course Pornhub can't do that, but the results will be pretty much the same.

I doubt this will affect the industry. People will only use another site. And another site, and another site. Mankind's hunger for porn is endless.

I'm not dismissing the concern about child pornography be posted anonimously, but I'm being realistic. It's data and, in a colossal computer network like the Internet, it's basically impossible to terminate it. It's like expecting crime to be extinguished, except this time the crime can be copied and distributed endlessly. I think a very accurate comparison would be to drugs. We all know cocaine is bad, and we ban it, but we can't get rid of it.

[avanfurwet]

Pornhub brought an existential crisis upon themselves if they failed to monitor and remove videos of abuse.

The knee-jerk mass takedown is a clearly desperate attempt to keep their business alive. Probably others will feast on the carcass.

But I guess they could use some of their infrastructure to re-start with a new brand and a more legitimate core business selling verified content.

I don't know how well the old business model of free content supported by ads can work in this era of ad-blocker arms races?

Interesting how Facebook gets away with it by making a big theatrical performance around their limited efforts at content moderation, but really because FB is too useful to advertisers including politicians and financial institutions who crave FB's surveillance data.

[Pineapples Studio]

When the same concerns about child pornography were brought on Tumblr, that site banned all porn and the traffic took a nosedive so deep that its price went from one billion to 3 million in a question of months. Of course Pornhub can't do that, but the results will be pretty much the same.

This was inevitable. IMO, Pornhub's business model was flawed from the very beginning. The notion of creating a platform for the anonymous upload of pornographic content practically begs for a liability crisis sooner or later, and should probably be illegal anyway. Arguably, it is illegal, at least in the United States depending on how your interpret USC 2257. With all the scrutiny surrounding those record-keeping requirements, which we take very seriously as paid content producers, it is incredible to me that Pornhub apparently never anticipated any problems from a platform which lacked any support for uploader submission of records, or any system for maintenance of uploader records on Pornhub's part, until very recently.

There needs to be a verification process for any person who chooses to perform in a pornographic production and there needs to be proper record-keeping of their credentials, and a publicly identified parent entity (usually an LLC, but it could be an individual for smaller producers) needs to maintain those records to cover any potential inquiries by law enforcement. This is just common sense as a liability precaution, but it is also a legal requirement. Fortunately, that is exactly how things work already in the world of paid porn, but it is not compatible with the old Pornhub business model of allowing anyone to upload anything they want and putting 100% of the liability risk on them. (Pornhub does screen for copyright violations, of course, but they have no system to screen for record-keeping violations. That onus is placed entirely on the uploader and Pornhub hides behind Section 230 to protect itself against liability for it.)

Pornhub has taken steps to move away from that model in recent years, with support for a verification system which amateur uploaders are encouraged to use and promotion of verified content as Pornhub's core product, so this latest development is not exactly a surprise, but I was a little taken aback that the credit card companies actually followed through and blocked MindGeek, just because it was a fairly extreme step and I did not think they'd actually do it... but I don't disagree with them. They are exerting their power to effect a change and I don't think that is wrong of them.

I doubt that this will kill Pornhub, primarily because uploaders are not their primary source of traffic or revenue, and the people who do provide the traffic and revenue don't really care where their content is coming from. People like free stuff and that's especially true for porn, regardless of how the mechanism for making it free to them works. This has definitely impacted Pornhub's content selection, and we will see some kind of impact from that, but they'll survive. They may lose their dominant market position because of this, but it's too early to tell. I guess we will see.

I doubt this will affect the industry. People will only use another site. And another site, and another site. Mankind's hunger for porn is endless.

This may have some minimal effect on the pay side of the industry, depending on how much a given pay site relies on tube-hosted clips for promotion, but it will probably remain unaffected for the most part since we have already resolved this issue by vetting producers and maintaining records for performers. However, I am sure that every tube site on the planet is re-evaluating its policies with a room full of lawyers right now.

I'm not dismissing the concern about child pornography be posted anonimously, but I'm being realistic. It's data and, in a colossal computer network like the Internet, it's basically impossible to terminate it. It's like expecting crime to be extinguished, except this time the crime can be copied and distributed endlessly. I think a very accurate comparison would be to drugs. We all know cocaine is bad, and we ban it, but we can't get rid of it.

It's a simple matter of liability risk. Pornhub cannot possibly review every piece of content that is uploaded to the service. It is just not humanly possible. The only way to prevent the upload of child pornography, revenge porn, etc. is to assert some measure of control over the people who upload the content, which is what they are doing now, and it is in their best interest to do it regardless of their legal requirement to do it. In practice, the question of who bears ultimate liability for the nature of the content is academic, because Pornhub bears the social consequences of the content on their service, as we are now seeing. No system is 100% fool-proof, of course, but Pornhub has to be able to show that they are doing everything in their power to vet their content providers and prevent the upload of illegal content, which is fundamentally incompatible with the old business model of allowing anyone to upload anything they want at any time.

[hjohjole]

They might just make it trough this after all. Their verified users where the ones creating most of the original content anyway. And the original content on [spam] tend to hold a pretty decent quality. Over all better than what you find on other porntubes in my opinion.

They are certainly not left empty handed after the purge. They are left with their very best content.

[Manou]

First of all: who cares about Pornhub anyway?

[Pineapples Studio]

The relevant issue here is how other porn companies will choose to respond.

[avanfurwet]

Thinking about the points Mr Ananas raised; if PH weren't verifying or monitoring effectively so anyone really could upload revenge porn, child abuse etc. IMO the most concerning issue is not that the New York Times or Mastercard forced changes in practice, but that government authorities didn't.

The porn industry is no more capable of self-regulation than financial services, or politicians.

[redwhre]

This was inevitable. IMO, Pornhub's business model was flawed from the very beginning. The notion of creating a platform for the anonymous upload of pornographic content practically begs for a liability crisis sooner or later, and should probably be illegal anyway

wtf your taking about, do you have a problem in your head, most main porn websites are like that
they are based on people uploading their porn

also dont pretend to talk so politically correct in such sophisticated way, cuz i think what ur saying is fucking retarded mate

as long as they have a minimun of monitoring for illegal content, is ok, ugh

[redwhre]

Sp [spam] has just purged it's unverified content after MasterCard & Visa cut ties. The site has gone from over 13 million videos to just under 3 million in 24 hours

so [spam] deleted 10 million videos after mastercard and visa cutted ties????

wtf, they so desperate for money hahahahahahahaha

if is really for that, those who sacrifice integrity for money deserve neither, pathethic

[Pineapples Studio]

wtf your taking about, do you have a problem in your head, most main porn websites are like that
they are based on people uploading their porn

Uh oh. Retard alert.

1) Just because something is commonly done does not make it right or legal. MindGeek (the owner of Pornhub) is a very large company operating some of the most highly-trafficked sites on the web. At that scale, an organization becomes accountable to many different stakeholders in society, not because "it's their moral responsibility" or anything grandiose like that, but simply because it is inevitable. Society watchdogs the big dogs with far more scrutiny than smaller players. Companies like MindGeek must either adapt or die. There is no choice. It's neither right nor wrong, but simply the way of the world.

2) My entire point is that the business model of hosting anonymously-uploaded pornographic content cannot survive at the scale MindGeek has attained. Any company, in any industry, of that size and scope will inevitably face liability threats that it cannot survive if it does not take steps to insulate itself from them. At that scale, it must either adapt or die.

also dont pretend to talk so politically correct in such sophisticated way, cuz i think what ur saying is fucking retarded mate

Would you feel more at ease if I spoke like a moron as you do?

as long as they have a minimun of monitoring for illegal content, is ok, ugh

No, that is my entire point. The bare minimum is not enough. An organization of Pornhub's size needs to be far more proactive.

[Pineapples Studio]

so [spam] deleted 10 million videos after mastercard and visa cutted ties????

wtf, they so desperate for money hahahahahahahaha

if is really for that, those who sacrifice integrity for money deserve neither, pathethic

Integrity? What?

[spam] is protecting its ability to process payments from customers. (Well, they're trying to protect it, but it might already be too late for them...) How would you respond differently in their position? Would you just keep the service running as it always has before, with no changes? Okay, that's very principled of you (I guess), but how do you pay next month's server bills?

Anyway, the assertion that [spam] had any integrity to lose in the first place is debatable.

[avanfurwet]

It's unfortunate if only the big dogs of the online world get regulated. Some little bitches need to be schooled too, so they don't bite people.

Sadly the US government under current "leadership" don't appear able to manage their own cybersecurity, let alone monitor and regulate others, if they even cared.

[InsideA41YearOldGirl]

Ananas, I didn't pay attention to your post at first, but now that you showed to us so kindly at how much you of a Redditor you are, let me make this clear.

Censorship isn't okay. Making it illegal to post things anonimously, pornographic or not, it's not okay. It's despotic. Ananas isn't even your real name mate, you're doing it too. Many of the people on this very site that we're posting this use psedudonyms, so in a way they're uploading things anonimously. You're both hypocritical and against the values of the very site you're using right now.

People have an inherent right to privacy that should trascend laws to regulate content. Freedom is something pretty important. Only and only when posting criminal content should that right be infringed, and most of Pornhub users weren't uploading revenge porn or child pornography. I don't agree and in fact I feel disgusted at what you just said.

[Pineapples Studio]

I'm not calling for any new laws to be enacted or for anything to be made illegal which isn't already illegal. USC 2257 already exists and already requires producers of adult content to maintain these records. That's not censorship. You are free to produce and share pornographic material, freely or otherwise, as long as you maintain these records. The loophole Pornhub uses to get around the record-keeping requirements is Section 230, which grants immunity to web publishers and hosting platforms for content submitted by third parties. Under this legal provision, only the content creator can be held liable for their content, but not the hosting platform.

I am not calling for Section 230 to be overturned. It's looking like that might happen soon regardless, but I don't actually think it would be a good idea. I am calling for tube sites to voluntarily implement record-keeping requirements on all of their hosted content, as a common sense measure to protect themselves from being dropped by payment processors as well as a deterrent against political attempts to overturn Section 230. Nobody would be calling for that loophole to be closed if the hosting platforms were doing a better job of regulating their content.

Several of your comments here indicate to me that you do not appreciate the nuances of this situation.

Making it illegal to post things anonimously, pornographic or not, it's not okay. It's despotic. Ananas isn't even your real name mate, you're doing it too. Many of the people on this very site that we're posting this use psedudonyms, so in a way they're uploading things anonimously. You're both hypocritical and against the values of the very site you're using right now.

There is no separate record-keeping requirement encoded in the law regarding text. There is one for pornographic content. You're comparing apples and oranges.

People have an inherent right to privacy that should trascend laws to regulate content. Freedom is something pretty important. Only and only when posting criminal content should that right be infringed, and most of Pornhub users weren't uploading revenge porn or child pornography. I don't agree and in fact I feel disgusted at what you just said.

I agree that people have an inherent right to privacy, but you have to see that anyone who uploads pornographic content is surrendering that right to a certain degree. They don't need to broadcast their real names for the entire world to see. I'm not saying that at all. They just need to maintain proper legally-mandated records for law enforcement only in the event of an inquiry. We already do this in professional porn production and it has been part of our law since 1988. Tube sites are unable to ensure that anonymous uploders are following suit.

[Pineapples Studio]

I doubt this will affect the industry. People will only use another site. And another site, and another site. Mankind's hunger for porn is endless.

Sure. That's probably what will happen, but so what? Should we just give up and let it happen? What is your point?

I'm not dismissing the concern about child pornography be posted anonimously, but I'm being realistic. It's data and, in a colossal computer network like the Internet, it's basically impossible to terminate it. It's like expecting crime to be extinguished, except this time the crime can be copied and distributed endlessly. I think a very accurate comparison would be to drugs. We all know cocaine is bad, and we ban it, but we can't get rid of it.

Again: What is your point? Yes, it is true that criminal activity is difficult to prevent, but what does that mean? Should we just not even try?

In fact, you are being unrealistic if you truly expect major financial companies like Visa and MasterCard to let this happen in the name of "freedom of speech". First of all, they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech, only the bottom line, and second of all, nobody is actually crusading for censorship of pornography, or at least none of the power players in this particular incident, so freedom of speech is not under threat in the first place. Again, we already have a 32 year old law on the books detailing the record-keeping requirements for producers of adult content. It's just not being enforced very well. Do you know why that law exists? Maybe you should look into the history of pornography and become familiar with the events that led to it.

Obviously, you can never fully eradicate criminal content from the internet, but that doesn't mean it should be so easy to disseminate.

[Eloise]

This was inevitable. IMO, Pornhub's business model was flawed from the very beginning. The notion of creating a platform for the anonymous upload of pornographic content practically begs for a liability crisis sooner or later, and should probably be illegal anyway

wtf your taking about, do you have a problem in your head, most main porn websites are like that
they are based on people uploading their porn

also dont pretend to talk so politically correct in such sophisticated way, cuz i think what ur saying is fucking retarded mate

as long as they have a minimun of monitoring for illegal content, is ok, ugh

Redwhre are you out of lock up again?

[Iddaoeeok]

Uh oh. Retard alert.

I wouldn't take too much notice of this guy's posts, he is genuinely mentally ill.

[Pineapples Studio]

Oh?

[mralfxp]

So those two said: PH, we want to cut a bigger slice from your revenues. PH said no. Now is PH losing income from the transactions, purging its content and eventually will pay the bigger slice anyway. And this is how it goes folks.

[magizi87]

I really don't care about [spam], never used it. Nothing personal against it.

I like porn with a high production value, I don't really care about amateur stuff.

I like porn that features great action and excellent cinematography and sound quality.
I'm also quite certain I would like porn with great stories, if such things were being made,
because I love erotic literature and comics in the genre, and those things are elevated, because of the story.

Models are very pretty but, they lack an understanding for what looks good. (in my opinion).
When I see the self made clips of girls I like, such as Timea Bella, Natasha Teen or Florane Russell,

I'm like: "this is not great"

Back in the day I used to write reviews about porn movies I bought,
If I were doing that today, I would be trashing these creators. They are just awful. lol

ANYWAYS

I'm writing this, because I think the economic model of porn companies,
such as Gonzo, where they pay fix amount of money to the actors and actresses,
is slowly driving these people away from these companies.

Which is a bad thing for me, the consumer who likes PREMIUM porn.
Because it seems to me, that it is on it's way out. It's not a slope, its a fade.

XXX already found a way to capitalize from the amateurs
by integrating them into his business model on the pornbox

And the amateurs are quickly flooding the main page.
This is compounding the issue. If you know about trends and a bit of math.
The years seem numbered, lol

[spam] lacked control over what content creators could upload,
bad stuff was being uploaded, I don't mean just poor quality porn.
but those things, revenge porn and whatnot, that I don't care about.
(that so far I have not spotted over here) buuuuuut...

The trend is that these amateurs will create so much content on a daily basis
that it will be too hard to monitor and approve, (if Legalporno does this to begin with)
I mean, without some kind of AI overseeing it, it would be impossible.

[spam] came to existence in 2007.
They deleted 10 million videos recently,
the average amount of videos required PER DAY,
to reach 10 million videos in less than 13 years, is over 2,000, lol.
who is gonna watch, review and approve, 2,000 videos on a daily basis.

I mean, pornbox has 10 or more videos uploaded daily right now.
who has time, to watch that much porn. It's just crazy.

[redwhre]

Uh oh. Retard alert.

I wouldn't take too much notice of this guy's posts, he is genuinely mentally ill.

also i saw your messages a long time and you are one of the biggest cunts ive ever seen, seriously your sad dude

Oh?

sorry if you think a website that allows anonymous upload of porn is flawed and should be illegal you must have some serious psychosis

as long as theres a minimun monitoring for illegal content is ok, also is very high business cuz u can make tons of money from ads from videos others upload to your website so

The notion of creating a platform for the anonymous upload of pornographic content practically begs for a liability crisis sooner or later, and should probably be illegal anyway

ugh ur dumb mate

so dumb to the point is sad

[redwhre]

i personally hate [spam]

xvideos is cooler

[redwhre]

yea you hahahahahah, your the retard by saying this

your retarded dude

What a compelling argument.

well i wouldnt insult u but u saying websites in which anonym people upload their porn should be 'illegal' really triggers me

u want to kill the internet

[Pineapples Studio]

#triggered

I am not saying that people should have to share their real names publicly. I am only saying that they should maintain records and provide the file host (Pornhub, in this case) with copies of them. It is already a legal requirement that you have to maintain records if you produce adult content, even if it's 100% free, and it has been that way since 1988. However, I would be willing to bet that almost none of the amateur content uploaders on these sites are doing this. It's clearly a liability catastrophe waiting to happen. In what way am I trying to "kill the Internet"? You set yourselves up for this. It's not my doing.

[redwhre]

say goodbye to [spam] because they just killed themselves haha

xvideos vs [spam] was like muhammad ali vs mike tyson (xvideos being muhammad ali cuz ali is way greater & superior than tyson)

now that [spam] is gone only the real ruler and king of porn xvideos is left & nobody is close to match xvideos & xvideos network

[avanfurwet]

Some good models have started out on Pornhub/Modelhub (also Xvideos, [spam], Lonelyfans and others).
If performers can monetise their content and build a fanbase I think that's a good thing.
Some models may go on to work with professional studios and other clipstores like Pornbox, if they want.

The probem was never the verified uploaders, it was the anonymous freeloaders abusing PH's free service to distribute stolen and abusive content.

If Mindgeek stand behind it, IMO the PH business will probably survive in some form and Mastercard & Visa will find a face-saving way to restore service in future because Mindgeek are a big customer.

Maybe PH can actually make more money without hosting 10 million unverified videos, much of which was probably "dead wood" attracting few clicks.

[redwhre]

what a wretched company this [spam] is i think

their mastercard and visa daddies made [spam] panic and they destroyed themselves in desperation i think hahahaha

im not sure if is really for that but i think is probably or in big part

now xvideos dont have any real rival

[redwhre]

also [spam] says youtube or imply that youtube should delete its non-'verified' videos too HAHA, wtf, also wtf does verified means

youtube is far smarter than that, youtube is not gonna kill itself like you did HAHA

also the 10 million videos you deleted were made with effort, you destroyed the work of tons of people

[Iddaoeeok]

Uh oh. Retard alert.

I wouldn't take too much notice of this guy's posts, he is genuinely mentally ill.

i bet you are the biggest mentally ill person in this forum u psychotic person

im probably far more intelligent that you would ever wish to be, when i was 12 i scored a slight superdotation

You've admitted you're mentally ill and on medication in the past.

[Pineapples Studio]

also the 10 million videos you deleted were made with effort, you destroyed the work of tons of people

Actually, a lot of that shit was pirated content, so it was really the theft of effort performed by others and the profits that should have gone to those people.

Tubes are... a tricky subject around here, and to some degree it's pointless to debate their effect on the industry because Pandora's box can never be closed, but I think it's fair to say that they fundamentally altered the landscape of paid porn, and not for the better. The only reason professional studios post clips to these tube sites is because they are forced to play ball, in order to take advantage of their traffic. Not only do the tubes generate the majority of porn-related traffic on the internet, but they divert traffic that would otherwise be directed to pay sites.

[Pineapples Studio]

also [spam] says youtube or imply that youtube should delete its non-'verified' videos too HAHA, wtf, also wtf does verified means

youtube is far smarter than that, youtube is not gonna kill itself like you did HAHA

The situation is fundamentally different for [spam] because of USC 2257. You aren't required by law to maintain production records for broadcasting a Diablo live-stream. You are required to do so for pornographic content.

It's been part of the law since 1988. If you don't like it, then campaign for change, but don't complain because short-sighted companies built their empires atop a house of cards. (& irrevocably changed an entire industry in the process!)

[avanfurwet]

So now 40 women from the "girlsdoporn" clusterfuck are suing Pornhub/Mindgeek for allegedly ignoring their takedown requests going back to 2016.

IDK if the women have a genuine case, and maybe filed it now to get their claim documented in case PH file for bankruptcy protection.

But the timing also looks a bit like piling in on top of PH while they are on the ropes.

[Pineapples Studio]

Of course, this is an organized assault and we shouldn't ignore that, but it's hard to feel sorry for PH. They brought this onto themselves. Rightly or wrongly, porn will always be the subject of intense scrutiny from the rest of society. That is why it is so important for us to be proactive and self-regulate before that responsibility is taken out of our hands and given to outsiders.

I do not overlook the political intent of Nicholas Kristof's op-ed, and it's clear that payment processors were looking for any excuse to cut ties with MindGeek, but the reality is that Kristof's ulterior motives, along with the predictable appearance of anti-porn crusaders who are latching themselves onto the public tarring-and-feathering of Pornhub for their own ends, are kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. This would never have happened if Pornhub had done a better job of protecting their business. It's their own fault. I have said this before, but it bears repeating: This whole situation was inevitable.

[avanfurwet]

Well the girlsdoporn lawsuit opens up a whole new front in the war on PH, and a whole new potential class of liabilities.

Because PH had a contract with the girlsdoporn business owners to host videos on a PH "channel", and presumably said owners were "verified" uploaders.

But obviously Mindgeek are a "tall poppy" and an attractive target for lawsuits claiming damages, given the main girlsdoporn owner is apparently on the run from the FBI.

I guess Mastercard and Visa were happy receive payment processing fees from Mindgeek until it all became a bit tricky PR-wise. Now, who knows?

[Pineapples Studio]

I mean, you're absolutely right. This is a political attack and there are ulterior motives at play. The industry has faced the existential threat of anti-porn activism from its inception, and it will always have to contend with that, but we should not lose sight of the fact that Pornhub made it easy for them. We would not be dealing with this right now if they had done a better job of keeping house.

Bitching and moaning about unfair scrutiny and regulations will not get us anywhere. Pornhub knew the rules. They chose to play with fire and now they're paying for it. The only question is whether the rest of us will be punished for their mistakes.

[tavelsesquin]

Seems like xHamster has also started taking down a big chunk of videos not from verified producers, though not all. If this is a trend it should be good for porn producers, though, right? Make piracy at least a little bit less convenient.

[avanfurwet]

I thought they had some kind of AI scan for piracy? At least of known content from cooperating producers.

Obviously they can't scan for stolen, abusive or illegal amateur content which is the subject of the complaint.

[Caveman39]

WGCZ's https://www.xvideos.com / http://www.xnxx.com will be next? y/n and why? What do you guys think?