How to progress 18-year-olds in porn

[DPraved]

Seeing how Baby Bamby's thread has trailed of topic into a discussion around different poster's preferred progression of 18-year-olds entering the wonderful word of LP-porn, a dedicated thread on the subject seems appropriate. What follows are the of-topic posts, quoted here for reference:

Great scene, and she is clearly having fun, try to keep it that way, even as the number of guys goes up. A new pretty girl like this must not be scared out of the business with too much too soon. Look what happened to the divine Nikki Hill, no more hardcore for her, her last LP scene was horrible, she looked like she was in so much discomfort, so we lost her for good.....

Great scene, and she is clearly having fun, try to keep it that way, even as the number of guys goes up. A new pretty girl like this must not be scared out of the business with too much too soon. Look what happened to the divine Nikki Hill, no more hardcore for her, her last LP scene was horrible, she looked like she was in so much discomfort, so we lost her for good.....

You could be right, but also wrong: it's all speculation.

Actually Nikky made 15 scenes between GiorgioLab and GiorgioGrandi, all pretty hard, so if she didn't like it, or wasn't ready to perform that porn, she has discovered it rather late. The truth is that these girls know what they are going to do to earn their money. It's well possible that at some point it becomes too much, or perhaps they meet the love of their life: as said, it's just speculation.

Great scene, and she is clearly having fun, try to keep it that way, even as the number of guys goes up. A new pretty girl like this must not be scared out of the business with too much too soon. Look what happened to the divine Nikki Hill, no more hardcore for her, her last LP scene was horrible, she looked like she was in so much discomfort, so we lost her for good.....

It's certainly a good thing if a girl really enjoys her work as she developes into harder content. Teenagers, though, have an expiration date. If Bamby is to be a genuine 18-year-old, sperm-burping, Black Cock gangbang slut, it needs to happen pretty soon. As for Nikki, she did many super hard LP scenes without running away. If she's decided to stop shooting hardcore, my guess is that it's for some other reason than the LP scenes being too "hard." More likely, she's got a boyfriend that objects to her going to work every day to get assfucked by an army of men and then swallowing all their nut.

Her first scene was great balls deep anal. The next two are tip-fucking. We know her hole can take it deep because we've seen it!
Don't need piss, DAP, or a 10on1 scene...need more hard balls deep anal in that small young ass!

I love seeing the girls giving blowjobs while getting butt-hammered.
Must be hard to concentrate for them! Between that and DP, only ever need two guys max.
I know people like different things of coarse...

Her first scene was great balls deep anal. The next two are tip-fucking. We know her hole can take it deep because we've seen it!
Don't need piss, DAP, or a 10on1 scene...need more hard balls deep anal in that small young ass!

I love seeing the girls giving blowjobs while getting butt-hammered.
Must be hard to concentrate for them! Between that and DP, only ever need two guys max.
I know people like different things of coarse...

I am substantially with you, what I most like is hard, balls deep anal pounding: this is really mandatory and the basis of any good scene. For this reason the scenes with Mike Chapman and Dylan Brown are always excellent. Then you can add many other ingredients, but the core is always that.

Her first scene was great balls deep anal. The next two are tip-fucking. We know her hole can take it deep because we've seen it!
Don't need piss, DAP, or a 10on1 scene...need more hard balls deep anal in that small young ass!

I love seeing the girls giving blowjobs while getting butt-hammered.
Must be hard to concentrate for them! Between that and DP, only ever need two guys max.
I know people like different things of coarse...

I am substantially with you, what I most like is hard, balls deep anal pounding: this is really mandatory and the basis of any good scene. For this reason the scenes with Mike Chapman and Dylan Brown are always excellent. Then you can add many other ingredients, but the core is always that.

Completely agree that hard ass-pounding is the foundation of good porn. That said, vacant holes are a wasted opportunity to satisfy more men, especially with regards to 18-year-olds (everyone wants to fuck an 18-year-old, so don't waste the opportunity). Teens have an expiration date, as steverino1969 so eloquently put it, and should be used at maximum capacity as soon as they are able to handle it. My worries are that new girls get thrown into the more demanding scenes (bad manhandle, piss or DAP) too early, bearing the risk of having them run away before they are comfortable with being used to their full potential. I think Nick's studio is probably doing the best job of using the first few scenes with a girl to build confidence, so I have hopes for Bamby.

Completely agree that hard ass-pounding is the foundation of good porn. That said, vacant holes are a wasted opportunity to satisfy more men, especially with regards to 18-year-olds (everyone wants to fuck an 18-year-old, so don't waste the opportunity). Teens have an expiration date, as steverino1969 so eloquently put it, and should be used at maximum capacity as soon as they are able to handle it. My worries are that new girls get thrown into the more demanding scenes (bad manhandle, piss or DAP) too early, bearing the risk of having them run away before they are comfortable with being used to their full potential. I think Nick's studio is probably doing the best job of using the first few scenes with a girl to build confidence, so I have hopes for Bamby.

Yes, it's a very good policy to give the girls, especially the younger ones, the time to get accustomed with the hard porn, which is here required (I talk of course of the main studios). And, in my view, there's no need to have always DAP, Piss, Manhandle and Gangbang: as said, very often the 1on1 scenes are the best.

A one-on-one can be interesting, especially for a first timer. REAL porn, however, is all about gangfucking cute young girls into quivering, sperm-burping messes, and this goes DOUBLE for teenagers. One should never let a teenager go to waste!

The idea, that young cute models quit pornobusiness due to the too hard fucking may be works,but may be no. They can quit it for various reasons. The main reason in my opinion is that the most of the models from Eastern Europe feel themselves not like the actresses, who wants to have a long career, but like prostitutes, who need to earn some money and then to return to "normal life" with husbands,children etc... The dependence on having a family in Russia and Ukraine is a lot more than in the West.
My favorite 2 young cute models here ( Baby Swabery and Tereza) have not very hard rough scenes on LP. They had made much more hard scenes before for another studios ( Swabery for PW and Rocco Siffredi, Tereza for PW), but they did not continue to work with LP

The idea, that young cute models quit pornobusiness due to the too hard fucking may be works,but may be no. They can quit it for various reasons. The main reason in my opinion is that the most of the models from Eastern Europe feel themselves not like the actresses, who wants to have a long career, but like prostitutes, who need to earn some money and then to return to "normal life" with husbands,children etc... The dependence on having a family in Russia and Ukraine is a lot more than in the West.
My favorite 2 young cute models here ( Baby Swabery and Tereza) have not very hard rough scenes on LP. They had made much more hard scenes before for another studios ( Swabery for PW and Rocco Siffredi, Tereza for PW), but they did not continue to work with LP

There could be some truth in what you say. These young girls might just want to sell themselves for a short while to earn some quick cash then return to "normal" life. Is that possible, though? Can a girl get gangbanged on camera in front of the world and then return to a normal life as though nothing had happened? I'm not so sure. A fair number of girls go into prostitution for short stints to earn fast money, then get out again without their friends, family, or co-workers knowing anything about it. Once a girl does porn, though, the world can see her getting railed by a gang of Blacks, swallowing all their nut FOREVER. There's no anonymity. That being the case, girls who decide to do porn should seriously consider it as a long term career rather than a passing job.

It's certainly a good thing if a girl really enjoys her work as she developes into harder content. Teenagers, though, have an expiration date. If Bamby is to be a genuine 18-year-old, sperm-burping, Black Cock gangbang slut, it needs to happen pretty soon. As for Nikki, she did many super hard LP scenes without running away. If she's decided to stop shooting hardcore, my guess is that it's for some other reason than the LP scenes being too "hard." More likely, she's got a boyfriend that objects to her going to work every day to get assfucked by an army of men and then swallowing all their nut.

Its agenda setting and wishful thinking that girls leave because the porn sex and fetishes demanded is too hard for them. I agree with Nick in case he has booked a girl for a 4-7 scene work unit anyway, but if not its really better to just start with the best we can get with them because we never know how long they will be in.
It so many reasons to start and even more to quit porn. Money is a main factor to start but also to quit if the money needed is collected. Than also please dont forget the Russian blackmailing parasites! They even threat girls using their nationalist bs gutter!

Now for Nikki Hill there is this 4on1 Blockbusters scene (GIO1343) everybody mentions and it sure was too demanding for her, but than she did 4 more DAP scenes after that. She sure would have left if that 4on1 BBC had been too hard for her! Fact is she carried on and fact is she told many times she wants to collect money with porn to buy her own flat in Kiew. Her Czech BF wouldn't approve of her doing b/g really, but she got her way anyway, she's a strong young woman! Than was pandemia, a new local BF and now lets wait and dont play that anti-LP agenda setting game, please!

Its agenda setting and wishful thinking that girls leave because the porn sex and fetishes demanded is too hard for them.

Sorry, don't get your point: whose agenda is that? Of the studio, or of the poster?
I can't see any advantage for the studio in setting such a policy: they have instead interest that the girls don't get discouraged and are willing to shoot more. And this is the sense of Nick's intervention some posts above.
If you mean the poster's agenda, eventually against your interests, I don's see so: on the contrary he's asking for exploiting the opportunity to the maximum, to have a teenager willing to do porn, before her "expiration date", to get all the obtainable as soon as possible.
I share instead Nick's view and policy, which allows these young girls, often not so self-confident, to grow a career, getting gradually used to what is required. And if she's no more 18yo, when she gets her first DAP, or when she's ready for other more demanding contents, it's not so bad, in my opinion. And even though she should never do these acts, it's better than have them hasted and bad performed.

Its between confusing and sad to read here again and again that hard porn sex would make those girls leave earlier. But we almost got no girls starting in LP and than leaving for lighter studios and working for them only. Katrin Tequila is one of the very few such cases. Usually they quit working in porn altogether. Its not about doing harder or softer porn scenes for them, but doing porn at all. And pressure to quit is sadly still big because there are too many rightous hypocrites in society. Also there are a lot of inborn reasons like the money earned they needed, health, pregnancy whatsoever. Its such a wide range, but always same kind of posters go on and on and denounce wet, manhandle, anal you name it.

I surely don't denounce DAP, Piss, Manhandle and so on, but as you see yourself, they are undeniably very demanding contents, which not every girl is up to or can perform the right way. I'm not pleading for softer porn, on the contrary: I want to see hard scene where anal fucking (I think that we can agree that Anal isn't soft or vanilla per definition) is vigorous, balls deep and intense and where the girls look passionate and somehow confortable with, not overwhelmed by what is required. And the argument, that a model would earn much more performing a DAP, is also partly plausible, because if she performs it at once and the scene flops because the model isn't able to perform it good, it's obvious that the alleged more money blows out, since it's highly probable that no other scene will follow.
So I would suggest a more sensitive handling and also some guidance from directors and producers to introduce the models the right way, according to skills and personality, helping them to show their best on the set.

And the argument, that a model would earn much more performing a DAP, is also partly plausible, because if she performs it at once and the scene flops because the model isn't able to perform it good, it's obvious that the alleged more money blows out, since it's highly probable that no other scene will follow.
So I would suggest a more sensitive handling and also some guidance from directors and producers to introduce the models the right way, according to skills and personality, helping them to show their best on the set.

grey, you should maybe talk to Nicole Black about her porn start and guidance, no matter how tired you got of her later. Its an eye-opener to talk to some of these girls instead of speculating from fans POV!

Btw, with agenda setting I was referring to some posters claiming LP was too hard for the girls. What utter bs!

And Nick is right of course, but it implies he has a girl at hand for a 4 to 7 scene work period like Baby Bamby. Than he can plan her career start carefully and let her grow step by step, yes. But if a studio catches a girl for just 1, 2 or 3 scenes they still have to try to get the maximum rather than wait until maybe she got threatened by Russian nationalists or her BF, peers or parents. I'd say 1on1 anal, 2on1 and than DAP is nothing lost really, it's a fair offer and sensitive handling with a compassionate director listening to the girl, not only demanding but giving advice also.

And to continue the discussion:

As Florane has continuously pointed out in her forum, girls need to work their asses regularly to perform DAP well. Considering the usually slow, tip-fucking DAPs GG shoots for the first handful of scenes with a new girl, I can only say that anything with balls deep anal is better than that. 18-year-olds can hardly be expected to perform DAP well enough to waste a scene only to tick that check-box. To make matters worse, any scene shot with the girl after that poor initial DAP will only focus on trying to improve her DAP-skills, which basically means months wasted on low-intensity fucking for that single fetish. Better to train their asses with big cocks balls deep and preferably in large numbers, and then attempt some DAP, when her ass has been properly broken in. Basically: If the girl's ass can't be pounded in DAP, better stick to pounding her in DP.

[Pineapples Studio]

Did you really have to quote a small village to introduce this topic?

There's no one formula. Different girls have different limits. I can't speak to Nikki Hill, but I can tell you that Mike Chapman is someone a lot of girls have to work their way up to accommodating. If that's what you want every new model to do, and you want them to stick around, you need a lot of patience.

[grey00owl]

As Florane has continuously pointed out in her forum, girls need to work their asses regularly to perform DAP well. Considering the usually slow, tip-fucking DAPs GG shoots for the first handful of scenes with a new girl, I can only say that anything with balls deep anal is better than that. 18-year-olds can hardly be expected to perform DAP well enough to waste a scene only to tick that check-box. To make matters worse, any scene shot with the girl after that poor initial DAP will only focus on trying to improve her DAP-skills, which basically means months wasted on low-intensity fucking for that single fetish. Better to train their asses with big cocks balls deep and preferably in large numbers, and then attempt some DAP, when her ass has been properly broken in. Basically: If the girl's ass can't be pounded in DAP, better stick to pounding her in DP

Thank you DPraved! Good job. We had effectyvely highjacked Baby Bamby's thread.
I agree with you: I'm really tired of those struggled lame tipfucking DAPs, so often seen at all LP studios. As you say, sometimes months go by before a girl can perform it correctly, of course if she sells enough and the producer wants still to invest on her, otherwise she's done. I understand that the major fee for a more difficult is enticing and some girls want to try anyway, but if they are not able, the director has to switch to single anal and DP, instead of spoiling the entire scene.

[hjohjole]

The problem with DPs is that it does not necessarily progress the girls in the right direction. If girls do scenes with lots of pussy fucking they may be more inclined to continue with only pussy fucking.
Just look at Isabella De Laa. This girl started out doing DP scenes, then more DP scenes, then only DP scenes. And then when (i presume) they pressured her to do DAP she decided to stop anal all together.

Its madness! The producers are really shooting them self in the foot when they view DP and DAP as something mandatory that every girl have to do sooner or later.
What we need is a third path of progression that includes neither DP or DAP. Im thinking about anal-centric content that focuses mainly on domination, ATM and anal stretching. 2on1, 2on2 and even GGB scenes.
Basically Gonzo style porn like it was done about 10 years ago but with even more anal. Preferably all anal/oral. Im telling you, if done correctly that would still be up to standard today.


If we do not have this path open for the girls that needs it we risk driving away many hot teen newbies. And we end up where we are today with mostly rugged old women with plastics and tats that look like they have been working the streets for 20 years.
The problem right now is that there is no real entry level. Except for a few rare 1on1s it is always straight to DP and then after only days or weeks DAP. Or even straight to DAP many times with Giorgio.
Some of thees 18 year olds just needs to go to anal school if you know what i mean.

Here are a few gifs to show that you can make great porn without any DP or DAP.

[Wotan29]

This ridiculous DAP policy - or better said DAP mania - bores me to death and almost kills LP for me right now.
´Cause it all ends in those hundreds of interchangeable checklist scenes without real and passionate fucking at all.

[Tito1981]

We need to see more 18 years old with alt of BBC.give to Freddy, yves, oscar. They will groom them for a good porn courier. Especially like Isabella de Laa. Look it up the one she did SZ2476.

[chemonro15]

this is a test

[dap-addict]

There's no one formula. Different girls have different limits. I can't speak to Nikki Hill, but I can tell you that Mike Chapman is someone a lot of girls have to work their way up to accommodating. If that's what you want every new model to do, and you want them to stick around, you need a lot of patience.

+ 1

That's it!
That's all!
Its far more complicated than just the more demanding the sex act and fetish...

I hope ppl listen finally!

[grey00owl]

The problem with DPs is that it does not necessarily progress the girls in the right direction. If girls do scenes with lots of pussy fucking they may be more inclined to continue with only pussy fucking.
Just look at Isabella De Laa. This girl started out doing DP scenes, then more DP scenes, then only DP scenes. And then when (i presume) they pressured her to do DAP she decided to stop anal all together.

Its madness! The producers are really shooting them self in the foot when they view DP and DAP as something mandatory that every girl have to do sooner or later.
What we need is a third path of progression that includes neither DP or DAP. Im thinking about anal-centric content that focuses mainly on domination, ATM and anal stretching. 2on1, 2on2 and even GGB scenes.
Basically Gonzo style porn like it was done about 10 years ago but with even more anal. Preferably all anal/oral. Im telling you, if done correctly that would still be up to standard today.


If we do not have this path open for the girls that needs it we risk driving away many hot teen newbies. And we end up where we are today with mostly rugged old women with plastics and tats that look like they have been working the streets for 20 years.
The problem right now is that there is no real entry level. Except for a few rare 1on1s it is always straight to DP and then after only days or weeks DAP. Or even straight to DAP many times with Giorgio.
Some of thees 18 year olds just needs to go to anal school if you know what i mean.

Here are a few gifs to show that you can make great porn without any DP or DAP.

I agree with you. Except that I don't believe that anybody made any pressure on Isabella for performing DAP, but it's not the matter of your intervention.
Even though I surely enjoy a good DP, I agree with you that the core and the standard of a good porn scene, today like yesterday and tomorrow, is a hard, deep Anal with face fucking, ATM and, in two girls scenes, ATOGM. And this is not the most natural thing in the world and has to be trained, especially, as you notice, in the case of very young girls who possibly perform it for the first time in their life. So we need sensitive and compassionate directors to introduce the girls to porn the best way.
I don't deny that some girl could be immediately ready for a DAP, and this is amazing, but it's rather the exception; only after an adequate training the most models reach the capability to perform it correctly, wich means hard and intense fucking with the cocks thrusting vigorously in and out, not with just the tip inside and barely moving.

[grey00owl]

There's no one formula. Different girls have different limits. I can't speak to Nikki Hill, but I can tell you that Mike Chapman is someone a lot of girls have to work their way up to accommodating. If that's what you want every new model to do, and you want them to stick around, you need a lot of patience.

+ 1

That's it!
That's all!
Its far more complicated than just the more demanding the sex act and fetish...

I hope ppl listen finally!

Of course there's no right formula. Every model is different in personality, skills and mental capability to adapt to situations, so the director, who obviously and legimately wants to take his profit, has also to be a teacher and a psychologist guiding the girls the best way into the porn business.

[Tresaaa]

18/19 year olds have a shelf life, usually 1-2 years after doing basic math lol.

If they're willing to do whatever, then the producers should get it in with them.

I want to see 18 year olds do double/triple anal. It's hot.

[avanfurwet]

Porn fans may like the fantasy of an "18 year old" but may have no clue exactly how old a model really is. She won't instantly transform into a crone on her 20th birthday.

IMO no model should ever be pressured to perform acts beyond her current abilities or tolerance just to provide entertainment for greedy impatient fans. She should get the chance to develop her skills and enjoy or at least tolerate her porn work. But in this industry there will always be bottom feeders trying to exploit a girl's naivety for a quick profit today, with no thought for her tomorrow.

[grey00owl]

Porn fans may like the fantasy of an "18 year old" but may have no clue exactly how old a model really is. She won't instantly transform into a crone on her 20th birthday.

IMO no model should ever be pressured to perform acts beyond her current abilities or tolerance just to provide entertainment for greedy impatient fans. She should get the chance to develop her skills and enjoy or at least tolerate her porn work. But in this industry there will always be bottom feeders trying to exploit a girl's naivety for a quick profit today, with no thought for her tomorrow.

I'm on the same wave: let the girls have the time to get accustomed to and eventually enjoy what they perform. No reason to haste, it's so much more hotter when a girl shows to enjoy and to be comfortable in my eyes.

[dap-addict]

Yep, but thats also true, sadly.

18/19 year olds have a shelf life, usually 1-2 years after doing basic math.

And it has nothing to do with greed!
Just how this biz works, really.

[netzerkaiser]

Yep, but thats also true, sadly.

18/19 year olds have a shelf life, usually 1-2 years after doing basic math.

And it has nothing to do with greed!
Just how this biz works, really.

out of DAP school, brother, do yo listen to music? What goes on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzIF4-_iE28

[avanfurwet]

Yep, but thats also true, sadly.

18/19 year olds have a shelf life, usually 1-2 years after doing basic math.

And it has nothing to do with greed!
Just how this biz works, really.

Of course it has everything to do with greed. Fans want instant gratification and agents & producers want instant profits. How many care at all about the model?
The porn business "works" to exploit the girl as much as possible as quickly as possible before she quits or goes to another agent or producer.

Potentially she can work as a "teen" model for at least a couple of years and then continue sporadically as an "adult" woman for as long as she wants, at whatever levels she wants. If she wants to earn more per shoot of course she can develop her levels. But if she's pushed over the edge within a few days/weeks of starting she'll be gone and the only ones to profit are those who pushed her. And they could have profited more if they had more patience.

[dap-addict]

Of course it has everything to do with greed. Fans want instant gratification and agents & producers want instant profits.
(...)But if she's pushed over the edge within a few days/weeks of starting she'll be gone and the only ones to profit are those who pushed her.

You see it really too easy, sorry man!
I see some guilt-culture porn-in-bad-and-they-only-exploit-women in your reasoning.
Look. Every 'normal' studio cares about sustainability, they want girls to last as long as possible also to keep users happy. But its all a question of forming-the-steal-when-its-hot, its feeling and experience. And often its better to take what you can get, also to make her earn as much as she wants and could earn, i.e not limit her to cheap porn sex acts. And finally, a studio not caring about the girl(s) is suicidal! It really only works with top excellent links to agents and in quasi-monopolized market, in Prague, Piter or BCN it sure doenst work.

[avanfurwet]

Of course it has everything to do with greed. Fans want instant gratification and agents & producers want instant profits.
(...)But if she's pushed over the edge within a few days/weeks of starting she'll be gone and the only ones to profit are those who pushed her.

You see it really too easy, sorry man!
I see some guilt-culture porn-in-bad-and-they-only-exploit-women in your reasoning.
Look. Every 'normal' studio cares about sustainability, they want girls to last as long as possible also to keep users happy. But its all a question of forming-the-steal-when-its-hot, its feeling and experience. And often its better to take what you can get, also to make her earn as much as she wants and could earn, i.e not limit her to cheap porn sex acts. And finally, a studio not caring about the girl(s) is suicidal! It really only works with top excellent links to agents and in quasi-monopolized market, in Prague, Piter or BCN it sure doenst work.

I just try to understand reality. You accuse me of following a fake agenda which you invented to suit your agenda. Nobody cares.

My original post spoke of greedy fans. Some/many fans don't care or actively lust to see a new girl thrown to the wolves. Those fans who demand instant gratification from more extreme acts create the demand which some studios then try to supply. Your claim that it's "nothing to do with greed" is self-evidently false. You said it's "just how this biz works" but you are actively arguing the case for short-term greed.

You fatally undermined your own claims by saying that (presumably your "normal") studios should take what they can get, and "make" a girl earn more money in a short time by performing more extreme acts while she is available to them.

You claim it's suicidal for studios not to care about models but you're actually making the case that studios should take care to keep the model going only until they've squeezed maximum short-term profit from her.

Obviously there are better and worse studios, producers, agents, some (few) of them actually want to build long-term business relationships. Not everybody in the business is a shark, pimp, charlatan, unprofessional wannabe or narcissistic sociopath. But some of them are and they will exploit the new girls if they can.

There are better and worse new models who can look after their own interests, or not. Some 18 year olds may have the capacity and motivation to dive in and make extreme scenes quickly. Some may be happy with that choice. But not every new girl needs to be thrown straight into the deep end of the swimming pool to see if she can float.

A few of the more professional studios may take the time to invest in a promising new girl and help her along in the hope that she repays them with more and more profitable scenes. That's a balancing act and not every studio will invest, some just take.

And we fans don't really know how hard the girls are pushed. How much of their motivation comes from the carrot and how much from the stick.

[dap-addict]

Of course it has everything to do with greed. Fans want instant gratification and agents & producers want instant profits.
(...)But if she's pushed over the edge within a few days/weeks of starting she'll be gone and the only ones to profit are those who pushed her.

You wrote not only about fans, avan.
I highlighted, see above.

I hear an anti-porner tone in your post, sorry to say.
Its like you were saying studios get compelled by fans to exploit girl and threw them away fast.
You may say so because you feel secretly guilty about your porn watching, its not your fault, but christian guilt-culture.
But fact is girls usually want to earn more money fast and are prepared to do more for more money. Studios have always to balance between fast food and long-term. And every 'normal' studio, sure every LP studio apart from IV, thinks about sustainability.
Such studios dont send girls to kind of a meat grinder, no matter how loud fans shout and cry, but do their best to balance between what they feel how long a girl could probably stay in porn and letting her earn the bigger money she wants to earn. Girls are not stupid! They know the going rates, the fees, they know DP is payed 2-3 less than DAP and wet is payed more etc.

[netzerkaiser]

Of course it has everything to do with greed. Fans want instant gratification and agents & producers want instant profits.
(...)But if she's pushed over the edge within a few days/weeks of starting she'll be gone and the only ones to profit are those who pushed her.

You wrote not only about fans, avan.
I highlighted, see above.

I hear an anti-porner tone in your post, sorry to say.
Its like you were saying studios get compelled by fans to exploit girl and threw them away fast.
You may say so because you feel secretly guilty about your porn watching, its not your fault, but christian guilt-culture.
But fact is girls usually want to earn more money fast and are prepared to do more for more money. Studios have always to balance between fast food and long-term. And every 'normal' studio, sure every LP studio apart from IV, thinks about sustainability.
Such studios dont send girls to kind of a meat grinder, no matter how loud fans shout and cry, but do their best to balance between what they feel how long a girl could probably stay in porn and letting her earn the bigger money she wants to earn. Girls are not stupid! They know the going rates, the fees, they know DP is payed 2-3 less than DAP and wet is payed more etc.

Let me summise wats gone on here. Avnfurwet is man after my own heart saying, 'pet, do you want to think twice about this, life repurcussions, you're so young to make decision' etc; DAPAddict: 'if we don't get in there, Woodman etc will, this is the reality, we're a business, not a charity'. My heads with DAPAddict, my hearts with Avanfurwet. Simple as.

[netzerkaiser]

I hear an anti-porner tone in your post, sorry to say.
Its like you were saying studios get compelled by fans to exploit girl and threw them away fast.
You may say so because you feel secretly guilty about your porn watching, its not your fault, but christian guilt-culture.
But fact is girls usually want to earn more money fast and are prepared to do more for more money. Studios have always to balance between fast food and long-term. And every 'normal' studio, sure every LP studio apart from IV, thinks about sustainability.
Such studios dont send girls to kind of a meat grinder, no matter how loud fans shout and cry, but do their best to balance between what they feel how long a girl could probably stay in porn and letting her earn the bigger money she wants to earn. Girls are not stupid! They know the going rates, the fees, they know DP is payed 2-3 less than DAP and wet is payed more etc.[/quote]

Let me summise wats gone on here. Avnfurwet is man after my own heart saying, 'pet, do you want to think twice about this, life repurcussions, you're so young to make decision' etc; DAPAddict: 'if we don't get in there, Woodman etc will, this is the reality, we're a business, not a charity'. My heads with DAPAddict, my hearts with Avanfurwet. Simple as.[/quote]

If it was your daughter, DAPAddict, & I like ya, I've time for ya... where would you stand then?

[dap-addict]

If it was your daughter, DAPAddict, & I like ya, I've time for ya... where would you stand then?

Let her earn her money the way she wants!
But warn her from guys wanting to exploit her! Or pretending to be their BF but plan to become suitcase pimps and live off her hard work!

[netzerkaiser]

If it was your daughter, DAPAddict, & I like ya, I've time for ya... where would you stand then?

Let her earn her money the way she wants!
But warn her from guys wanting to exploit her! Or pretending to be their BF but plan to become suitcase pimps and live off her hard work!

Its a good honest answer. You didn't shirk it, & I respect you all the more for it.

[Tresaaa]

If it was your daughter, DAPAddict, & I like ya, I've time for ya... where would you stand then?

Let her earn her money the way she wants!
But warn her from guys wanting to exploit her! Or pretending to be their BF but plan to become suitcase pimps and live off her hard work!

To me its all about the end product. I enjoy seeing a naive slutty girl get fucked hard by porn dicks at 18.

For the harder stuff, there's never going to be a shortage of women ready to perform it. So for just 1 girl, I'd trade 1-2 really hard scenes of her at 18 over her having a long generic career. There will be someone else to fill that void.

[grey00owl]

But fact is girls usually want to earn more money fast and are prepared to do more for more money. Studios have always to balance between fast food and long-term. And every 'normal' studio, sure every LP studio apart from IV, thinks about sustainability.
Such studios dont send girls to kind of a meat grinder, no matter how loud fans shout and cry, but do their best to balance between what they feel how long a girl could probably stay in porn and letting her earn the bigger money she wants to earn. Girls are not stupid! They know the going rates, the fees, they know DP is payed 2-3 less than DAP and wet is payed more etc.

I really hope you are right and producers and directors besides their profit have also the willingness to introduce the girls the right way and help them in building a career. At least the most of them.
I easily understand that the models are attracted by higher earnings and it's fair to give all of them the possibility to get the money, but nobody has to force them or to put pressure in order to achieve fast results. And if a model, yet willing, is unable to perform a content (say DAP), the director has to decide to switch to something more comfortable for the girl, in her interest as well as his studio's and also ours ultimately. We want to see in fact a good product for which we are glad to pay the price requested.

[dap-addict]

I easily understand that the models are attracted by higher earnings and it's fair to give all of them the possibility to get the money, but nobody has to force them or to put pressure in order to achieve fast results. And if a model, yet willing, is unable to perform a content (say DAP), the director has to decide to switch to something more comfortable for the girl, in her interest as well as his studio's and also ours ultimately. We want to see in fact a good product for which we are glad to pay the price requested.

Thats exactly what just was done @ GIO with Francesca Palma.
I can find you a Dotzen other examples, but anti-porners and studio-haters will always claim it was LP to drive girls out of porn, LP exploiting girls, LP pushing girls etc.

[dap-addict]

If it was your daughter, DAPAddict, & I like ya, I've time for ya... where would you stand then?

Let her earn her money the way she wants!
But warn her from guys wanting to exploit her!

To be clear here, so that nobody of that anti-porter/studio-hatr fraction jumps in again and claims I warned my daughter of the porn biz because they were exploiting girls always or such bs:
By exploiting I mean exploiting by limitation, like brainwashing her to safe vicinity for marriage, like it was done with girls even in Europe up to 1970ties and beyond. Or brainwashing her that lust was a sin, or brainwash her that porn career started with mast/lez only and boys were much later, or brainwash her that saving anal porn for later would benefit her etc. Exploiting is brainwashing a girl into cages she than doenst leave even she could and would want to in her heart!

I would also advise her to always carefully listen to her body and her mind, her feelings, to watch her health and to learn english for whatever reason, and be it to enter porn later if she wishes to do so, yes!

[ZiziMinuscule]

And we fans don't really know how hard the girls are pushed. How much of their motivation comes from the carrot and how much from the stick.

A voice of reason. So heartwarming to see that here.

Just want to add that we also don't really know how the most of girls cope with their post-porn life and how their porn experiences shapes their future. I wish all of them follow Arwen Gold's path but I don't really believe it. And it indeed makes me feel guilty (and has nothing to do with "christian" morality as I'm not christian and don't care for any religion).

I would also advise her to always carefully listen to her body and her mind, her feelings, to watch her health and to learn english for whatever reason, and be it to enter porn later if she wishes to do so, yes!

That's very noble of You, but You need to know that 18 yo girls are very seldom fully aware of the consequences and the impact the porn career can have on their post-porn life.

[dap-addict]

And it indeed makes me feel guilty (and has nothing to do with "christian" morality as I'm not christian and don't care for any religion).

Doenst depend on your religious believes!
Its christian guilt-culture upbringing! Trying to brainwash us all that lust was bad.
And also society (or men) had to control women bodies and all our liberties anyway.

Sorry, if you feel guilty for granting an 18yo girl her free will to experiment!
And sorry also if you rather not fight for an open society making it really easy for porn girls and all sex workers to find back into 'normal' daily life after they retire! Shouldnt rather that be our aim instead of feeling guilty?

[ZiziMinuscule]

OK. Keep "fighting" for an "open" society. Good luck.

[netzerkaiser]

And it indeed makes me feel guilty (and has nothing to do with "christian" morality as I'm not christian and don't care for any religion).

Doenst depend on your religious believes!
Its christian guilt-culture upbringing! Trying to brainwash us all that lust was bad.
And also society (or men) had to control women bodies and all our liberties anyway.

Sorry, if you feel guilty for granting an 18yo girl her free will to experiment!
And sorry also if you rather not fight for an open society making it really easy for porn girls and all sex workers to find back into 'normal' daily life after they retire! Shouldnt rather that be our aim instead of feeling guilty?

Brother, you get mad if you see little children, or the weak or elderly, or defenceless animals being abused. You don't get angry over a rational debate like this, I think, anyway.

[dap-addict]

I dont get angry, if I dont have to read anti-porner bs!
But it makes me sad to read that porn users feel guilty after they enjoy girls and boys down the work they want do for their living.
Thats sad fruit of christian guilt culture really!

[dap-addict]

...but generally I am easy going: If you wanna feel guilty if you watch porn, ok, your right.
And yes, there are reasons like always to forbid younger ppl than you to decide for themselves independently. We can discuss about pros and cons. Dont worry, nor netzer, nor Zizi, nor sb else. Peace than!
Better enjoy some porn good hard porn!
Ideally not feeling guilty!

[netzerkaiser]

...but generally I am easy going: If you wanna feel guilty if you watch porn, ok, your right.
And yes, there are reasons like always to forbid younger ppl than you to decide for themselves independently. We can discuss about pros and cons. Dont worry, nor netzer, nor Zizi, nor sb else. Peace than!
Better enjoy some porn good hard porn!
Ideally not feeling guilty!

You're cool Brother - I've ENORMOUS time for you. I'm not sure if its a Christian thing... do other religions not have simlar moral code? I really hope they do!

[dap-addict]

Moral code is fine.
All religions have it!
But feeling guilty for sexual lust is NOT ok, definitely NOT!

[netzerkaiser]

...but generally I am easy going: If you wanna feel guilty if you watch porn, ok, your right.
And yes, there are reasons like always to forbid younger ppl than you to decide for themselves independently. We can discuss about pros and cons. Dont worry, nor netzer, nor Zizi, nor sb else. Peace than!
Better enjoy some porn good hard porn!
Ideally not feeling guilty!

You're cool Brother - I've ENORMOUS time for you. I'm not sure if its a Christian thing... do other religions not have simlar moral code? I really hope they do!

For me, porn was, always has been, an extremely effective antidote to falling in love at first sight & imagining because of her beauty, she's some sort of pure angel thrust to Earth. And its worked. Whatever time lost to porn has been nothing to the years spent before, idealising ladies who hardly were aware I existed & not taking 'advantage' of erstwhile opportunites put before me.... always after an elusive ideal. I put this down to having been adopted & growing up idealising some female ideal, like Cate Blanchett in Lord of the Rings. Does this make sense? Peace & love, Brother.

[dap-addict]

It does.
But I honestly dont think for should stand in the way of meeting girls in RL.
What you have to do, or learn to do, is differ between porn fantasy and reality in real life!
And what you have to keep in mind - and here I completely agree with Zizi et al. - is that behind every porn girl there is a real person which real problems, real wishes, real needs etc.

Now transferred to OP: If a porn scout or a porn director meets a real 18yo girl dreaming of having sex on stage for money and she wants to earn as much money as possible, should be say: "Look, you are only 18yo, b/g is too early for you, beware of anal, just do mast or lez only for 100$ instead, its good and easy money, too"? Or shall he say: "Look, rates are this and this (from lez to DAP), this is extremely demanding, but you and your talent decides, you and only you decide in the end! And apropos: All your sex on set will be on internet forever, no matter whether it is lez or mast only or wet DAP." ?

[netzerkaiser]

It does.
But I honestly dont think for should stand in the way of meeting girls in RL.
What you have to do, or learn to do, is differ between porn fantasy and reality in real life!
And what you have to keep in mind - and here I completely agree with Zizi et al. - is that behind every porn girl there is a real person which real problems, real wishes, real needs etc.

Now transferred to OP: If a porn scout or a porn director meets a real 18yo girl dreaming of having sex on stage for money and she wants to earn as much money as possible, should be say: "Look, you are only 18yo, b/g is too early for you, beware of anal, just do mast or lez only for 100$ instead, its good and easy money, too"? Or shall he say: "Look, rates are this and this (from lez to DAP), this is extremely demanding, but you and your talent decides, you and only you decide in the end! And apropos: All your sex on set will be on internet forever, no matter whether it is lez or mast only or wet DAP." ?

Thanks Brother. And try remember also, you are obviously by your reminicences & anecdotes, in a posiion where you get see things we don't. We are like the amateur fisherman casting his humble fishing rod... you are at the weir where all salmon must cross... its an entirely different scenario.. its like where a relatively ugly guy like Richard Lengin gets to fuck half of Europe in '99, just through positioning.. we need respect where you are, but also vice-versa.

[dap-addict]

I wouldn't over-estimate really!
Look there is a girl out there for every men, really! Maybe not ideal, but so many girls dont find somebody who really loves them, somebody who really opens their hart for them and just shares. Its not about marriage, its about going a road of life for some time together, have fun together, share lust. And dont feel ashamed or bad or sinner about! Just share and enjoy! And for the other time use porn, or and/or use porn together with that girl, just as you please!
Its what I told Zizi also somewhere: Its impossible such compassionate guy has no girls waiting, no matter how we look, nobody is perfect. Just dont look for ideal girls, ideal beauty, look for real lovely girls!

[dap-addict]

...but its no therapy forum:
Lets maybe tackle this here rather, see OP!

Now transferred to OP: If a porn scout or a porn director meets a real 18yo girl dreaming of having sex on stage for money and she wants to earn as much money as possible, should be say: "Look, you are only 18yo, b/g is too early for you, beware of anal, just do mast or lez only for 100$ instead, its good and easy money, too"? Or shall he say: "Look, rates are this and this (from lez to DAP), this is extremely demanding, but you and your talent decides, you and only you decide in the end! And apropos: All your sex on set will be on internet forever, no matter whether it is lez or mast only or wet DAP." ?