Pricing increase; Legit? Or Greed?

[MackZatis]

Several questions here; When does this stop? Pricing has steadily increased for for 4+ years now, one would think that it can't go on for ever, right??? (who am I kidding, when it comes to this place, just throw any pre-conceived notions about how a business should operate right out the damn window.)

This is only one singular example, but I see them all the time browsing old trailers. (for a true apple's to apple's comparison; same female star same studio)
Who can explain this; this scene released today cost $10.35 which contains fewer male actors, and does not contain TAP & TP....
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/158901
While this scene, also Lara Di Santis only cost $6.75 and it has more studs and TAP & TP.
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/33006
I'm only concerned about real world straight up cash price, I don't care about or even take note of tkts to $$$ conversion rate, as that is just some arbitrary value someone (most likely XXX) made up off the top their head and can change without any notice at all. It's like the "fun bucks" they sell at amusement parks, you gives us cash and we give you worthless paper to spend inside the gates for soda, snacks, gifts ect. and you have no idea of how much your really paying for such items....

* off topic here a bit* And that brings me back to the whole "ticket" system instead of flat-rate subscription service. What the hell is so GREAT about it??? I've never seen another website, porn or otherwise use it. Have any of you? If it's so great for the owners/company, why isn't anyone/everyone using it. And if the flat-rate subscription model is soooo bad, then how do ALL other porn sites make any money using it??? How are they all not out of business & defunct now, if what we've been told about the 2 systems is true?
Yes there will always be a few that only stick around for 1-3 months download the back catalog, then cancel. But from I've gathered, people that actually PAY for porn, pay and happily keep paying to get & have the very latest & greatest releases and access to all the other things it brings with it. So in a way, you could actually be gaining revenue. You'd have pretty much what you have now, plus the $30-$120 from each of short term customers that downs the catalog and bails. Something from many is better than none from all....
Better yet, you could really combine the two. Make able to buy for cash or tkt's singular scenes (0-day and older), but also have a flat-rate monthly subscription plan as well that allows users to have all but the latest 6-12 months of releases available to download. That way you can "protect" the newest stuff, while appealing to broader range of possible customers. But I digress

(Back on topic)
From what I remember, in the past GIO was the more expensive of the 2 studios (GIO & GONZO). So while XXX may have been correct when saying that scenes were UNDER priced, that was several years ago (pricing wise). So while a price increase could be expected & accepted to bring on par with GIO pricing, what has happened since could not. Whats changed so damn much that now GONZO has leaped frogged past GIO and then some, in regards to price. I mean seriously....!!!
I can't recall the specific GONZO scene(s) but I do remember that a practically identical scene in regards to sex acts and number of performers 3-4 years ago cost 3tks, and the current scene cost 11tks!!! So where the fuck is the dramatic increase in their costs that necessitate a price increase on our end to cover such things??? That how the business world works, Their price goes up, so does ours. Their price stays the same, so does ours. Just because YOU fucked up originally and priced yourself below market value, doesn't mean that you can not only adjust once or maybe twice, but keep raising to a now ridiculous over inflated high.
And I don't wanna hear COVID as a reason. I don't buy that. Prices for almost EVERYTHING have gone DOWN during the pandemic. Performers are NOT getting more money, so that's not the reason. As technology keeps advancing, you don't need as many employee's and certainly not MORE employee's. So no increase in costs there. Building leases/rent stay the same, so no not there either. There is no travel expense for exotic filming locations or talent scouting (goes back to the technology thing; social media is basically the talent scout, which is FREE!) Any thing spent in regards to cameras, hard drives, computers, hell even COUCHES (although there hasn't been many of those bought), can be claimed as a business expense and written off, so not dramatic increase there at all. Testing??? isn't that the responsibility of the performer? I know GIO has his own standards, that are above & beyond what is normally called for and good for him. But even if he pays that, I'm sure that he's not paying the same amount as Joe Schmoe walking in off the street would pay per test. And I'd imagine that those prices are pretty solid and don't chance much if at all.

What am I missing??? Someone fill me in here. Cuz the more I think about it, the more it seems to be just plain & simple GREED!

[avanfurwet]

^ Good post with some interesting thoughts.

Pornbox already offers subscriptions for some studios. Although these seem to cause confusion with customers not understanding what they've bought and complaining they can't download everything.

MackZatis suggests a flat rate subscription for access to the back-catalogue. I think the problem with that model is that it's too cheap for the initial bulk download/streaming by new subscribers of many past scenes, but too expensive to keep subscribers renewing monthly just to get access to the slow rolling reveal of scenes from "n" months ago.

In the past, I've suggested a sliding scale of scene prices with scenes getting cheaper as they get older. But I guess the owners of the website know what they're doing and make more money doing it their way.

Obviously customers do know how much each ticket costs them, so they know how much they are paying for each scene they buy.

Obviously the "cash" prices for individual scenes will be higher because it's better for the business to take money in advance for ticket sales than to make individual cash transactions for selling scene-by-scene.

The pros and cons of the ticket system compared with subscriptions, for the business, and for customers, have already been debated in past threads. Price increases have also been debated to death.

Personally, the ticket system works for me since I only want to buy 1 or 2 scenes a week and I'm currently willing to pay the price for a monthly "subscription" of 48 tickets. Like any customer, if I didn't feel I was getting value I'd bugger off elsewhere. But that's just me.

Different people will have different opinions about value and whether they want to pay to support these businesses to continue to produce scenes and run a website/sales platform, or not.

So far, I've only seen posts from a handful of fans who have even the tiniest understanding of costs or profits for running studios, hiring performers (local and imported), producing and selling scenes or running a website like LP/Pornbox. Ultimately, none of us fans really know how profitable or otherwise each business is. Or what business risks and difficulties the business owners face in getting their products to market. Maybe they're all super greedy and billionaires, or maybe they're just trying to turn a profit like any business.

Most fans seem to lack any knowledge or willingness to even think about it, but complain anyway. In a world where so much porn is available elsewhere for free, I think it's as much a moral choice as a budget choice whether you pay up or not.

As to "the way the business world works"; as I understand it all business owners are engaged in a constant struggle to increase income and control costs. They can't "control" income but they are free to experiment with raising or lowering prices to discover what works for them by increasing their overall income. They may tell their customers that price rises are due to increased costs and that may even be true. But basically they all will charge what they can, and we customers will either pay up or leave.

[dap-addict]

So far, I've only seen posts from a handful of fans who have even the tiniest understanding of costs or profits for running studios, hiring performers (local and imported), producing and selling scenes (...)
Most fans seem to lack any knowledge or willingness to even think about it, but complain anyway. In a world where so much porn is available elsewhere for free, I think it's as much a moral choice as a budget choice whether you pay up or not.

+ 1

So many post about 20+ studs gangbangs and stuff show that many think it was for free to produce porn!

[Tito1981]

Its crazy what this people charging. Most of this video unwachble pee,cage,trans.etc I don't mind to pay for good interracial scene like waka waka, blackbusrer or 4 o 1 BBC scenes for that reason I purchased this maybe two or three scenes .it way expensive or came with good interracial video.

[zeusanalfreak299]

The situation is simple:

When prices increase, more people start to look for alternative sources.

That´s not right or ethical, it´s kind of natural law.
People will find a way to satisfy their needs.

That´s why most companies can´t increase their prices without increasing customer´s benefit.
Maybe oil companies like OPEC can, but not a porn network.

Furthermore: Ordinary people don´t care about costs/sales/profit and the effort. That´s why Wallmart and Amazon became so huge.

[avanfurwet]

For customers, choosing to pay for porn is about ethics, paying a fair price. Otherwise they could download stolen content for free.
But people want value for their money, and will rightly question price increases unless the seller can convince them.

We don't know anything about costs or profits, but we know what we can buy here and elsewhere, and for how much.

Then it's an individual decision for each different customer, what they want and how much they're prepared to pay for it.
Which is I think why posts like Tito's don't change the argument at all. He wants what he wants. Different people want different things.

[dap-addict]

For customers, choosing to pay for porn is about ethics, paying a fair price. Otherwise they could download stolen content for free.

Yep, its really an ethical question.
I just found a source to get all GLab Piter scenes for free and in good quality, but it doenst stop me to buy the scenes I want here in my pornbox. You may call me a fool, but fact is I realize that if I dont help to invest into Russian porn again all those scouted cuties will be able to do 2-3 scenes and than they are gone because directors can't give them jobs there. Same with Prague produced porn.
Thats the difference with LP: It is users feeling a loyalty with their porn producers and also the girls performing for them. Look, in Czech you need at least 2k euro to have a decent life, that means girls need to get at last 2 porn scenes per month if I dont want them to work at Tesco cash desk additionally. And no, I dont want them to do that, because they can invest their beauty and talent better really!

May sound naive and idealistic, but as long as I can afford to pay for what I need - and I need 1-2 new hard anal porn scenes per day - I will pay for it.


Btw, another thing is that me, too, I am really missing some communication by xxx here! Price rise can be explained and warned about before, its not that difficult! Now we are just left with crazy theories and those few xxx posts long ago complaining about loosing money with too many girls @ gonzo.

[grey00owl]

Btw, another thing is that me, too, I am really missing some communication by xxx here! Price rise can be explained and warned about before, its not that difficult! Now we are just left with crazy theories and those few xxx posts long ago complaining about loosing money with too many girls @ gonzo.

Well, we cannot really expect that xxx, or Giorgio, or whoever, will reveal and explain which their price policy is and how it works. They will always justify their choices saying that only so they can earn money, but they never will tell you how much money they earn and what is a legitimate expectation. But honestly it's not something that one can openly discuss.

[dap-addict]

but they never will tell you how much money they earn and what is a legitimate expectation. But honestly it's not something that one can openly discuss.

Fees for girls went berserk over last 2-3y in Czech and all EU!
Also rents and all general earnings for cutters, webmasters, ID, finance etc went up a lot in Czech!
And than just take a look at Giorgios and Tarra's holiday pictures... Are those rich pals holidays? Common!

[grey00owl]

For customers, choosing to pay for porn is about ethics, paying a fair price. Otherwise they could download stolen content for free.

Yep, its really an ethical question.

Yes it is.
If everybody would get free, piracy stuff, the porn industry would go bankrupt and we wouldn't have any new productions anymore. Maybe to get something new we should go at [spam] and platforms like that, but it's not the porn we all like to see.
Regarding the price increase, it has been really enourmous in the past year. Now is it legitimate, being the right payment for a studio and the platform carriers, which undeniably invest a lot of money in the production and the marketing, or is it rather excessive greed? Nobody can say it with certainty, it's more something subjective and individual.
To me it's a question of quality and value: am I ready to pay that price for that product? Is it worth it? Also here different, individual answers.
I can only say that never like in the latest times I skipped so many scenes, not because of the price, but, either for the choice of the model or because of the contents, they were simply unattractive to me.
To be honest I have to say that in the DVD age I used to spend much more money in porn.

[MackZatis]

Ill throw this in here as it's really not too different.... Much like the alcohol/tobacco industry and drug industry, they're counting on a certain percentage of it's users becoming addicted and it's to them they prey upon. But unlike the above that has a "consumable" product, and must be constantly re-purchased. This isn't, This is owned, and can be kept forever. So I do believe we are seeing the results of you guys being very picky on what you buy. So in order to make up for less sales, price goes up. Knowing that a smaller amount of sales at a higher price will make up the difference and maybe more. XXX has said in regards to his re-selling of old scenes, Girls gone wild, ect at exorbitant prices, that people that want it, will pay it. And he's fine with it. He'd rather have lower sales at a much higher rate, than POSSIBLY many more at a lower rate....
Also knowing that once price has increased and people have acquiesced to it, that toothpaste can't be put back, and prices forever remain on that level or yet again increase...
Seems kind of predatory...
I get 2 main impressions about this place (meaning company as a whole) they don't really have a long term plan and everything is very reactionary...

PS; I don't believe that the whole "if everyone got their porn for free, that production would cease to exist. Wasn't that the fear 10yrs ago, with the proliferation of tube sites??? Come to find out, that the corporations that owned the studios was buying them up, and now make money off that also. Point being; It wouldn't cease, things would shift & adapt and keep going....

[MackZatis]

So far, I've only seen posts from a handful of fans who have even the tiniest understanding of costs or profits for running studios, hiring performers (local and imported), producing and selling scenes or running a website like LP/Pornbox. Ultimately, none of us fans really know how profitable or otherwise each business is. Or what business risks and difficulties the business owners face in getting their products to market. Maybe they're all super greedy and billionaires, or maybe they're just trying to turn a profit like any business.

Most fans seem to lack any knowledge or willingness to even think about it, but complain anyway. In a world where so much porn is available elsewhere for free, I think it's as much a moral choice as a budget choice whether you pay up or not.

Are any of these statements referring to me???

[avanfurwet]

So far, I've only seen posts from a handful of fans who have even the tiniest understanding of costs or profits for running studios, hiring performers (local and imported), producing and selling scenes or running a website like LP/Pornbox. Ultimately, none of us fans really know how profitable or otherwise each business is. Or what business risks and difficulties the business owners face in getting their products to market. Maybe they're all super greedy and billionaires, or maybe they're just trying to turn a profit like any business.

Most fans seem to lack any knowledge or willingness to even think about it, but complain anyway. In a world where so much porn is available elsewhere for free, I think it's as much a moral choice as a budget choice whether you pay up or not.

Are any of these statements referring to me???

All of them.

You have thought about it, have some ideas which people can debate with you if they want; then you complain about something you can't influence.

The studio and platform owners invest in their businesses, make their products and display their wares for sale at whatever prices they want.

All we can do is buy, or not buy.

Their cost, their risk, their reward, their profit or loss.

Doesn't matter if you believe what they say.

[JayJams]

Frankly I am amazed that no one has complained that some of the same scenes are being released by different studios with completely different ticket prices, sometimes by as much as 5 tickets (or maybe I have missed the thread on that).

Not to mention some of the "new" (but old) scenes being released by other studios, are scenes I already own but since it is another studio putting it up, come up in my account, as not being owned.

Kinda fucked up if you ask me. For those of us who have been LP members for a long while and have hundreds (or thousands) of scenes, am I expected to just remember every scene I ever bought?! That now on Pornbox, a DDF scene, is a scene previously offered and already purchased years ago, from when it was on LP, and I wasn't a DDF member?

Also, shall we get into the completely pointless previews of a lot of videos now (usually with the old "new" releases). I am all for buying older scenes I may have never seen, but a 1 minute preview of absolutely nothing pertaining to the scene (or more so the model that's in it), does NOT make me want to buy it at all.
...That's a lot of lost purchases there, to the studio & the platform. Not simply from me, but many other members who probably feel the same way.

Maybe if they were really greedy, and would like to take my money/tickets, they'd look into straightening out their customer experience, which has been in the toilet now for the better part of over a year. This hasn't stopped me from being a member, or purchasing scenes (and even extra tickets once in a while), but just saying the overall customer experience is not great.

[avanfurwet]

Agree that failing to make proper trailers for some scenes is the content producer's fault, and their loss if potential customers pass.
Sometimes content owners even have a proper trailer available elsewhere, but don't load it here for whatever reason.

Throwing the same scene onto the Pornbox clipstore under different studio labels with different prices is annoying, but I guess they'll happily take your money twice if you forgot you already own a scene and buy it again. Don't expect they will throw resources at making it easier for you to not spend your money. Buyer beware.

[dap-addict]

For those of us who have been LP members for a long while and have hundreds (or thousands) of scenes, am I expected to just remember every scene I ever bought?!

Itsnt that a problem only if you also bought DDF or Private scenes in the past?
It never happened to me because LP core studios (GIO/GLab/gonzo/IV) never get re-released like that.

Scenes with those trailers featuring first 50s of scene I always skip.
And yep, I also already suggested to tidy up the offer chaos, but at least now we have always core LP studios plus new real LP studios like N&F or YE as first offers. I usually dont look past them because DDF is too vanilla for me since 2012.

[dap-addict]

Btw, ideal in my POV would be a 3-split into core LP studios / other studios LP owns (Private/GGG/DDF/Gangbros etc) and foreign studios just sold via pornbox (NRX/VK/NTS/OTS/Mixed Studios etc) - Such a graphic offer split would help with shopping experience. It would also help old Private/GGG/DDF/Gangbros users who dont want as much hardcore as LP I am sure.

[grey00owl]

Agree that failing to make proper trailers for some scenes is the content producer's fault, and their loss if potential customers pass.
Sometimes content owners even have a proper trailer available elsewhere, but don't load it here for whatever reason.

Throwing the same scene onto the Pornbox clipstore under different studio labels with different prices is annoying, but I guess they'll happily take your money twice if you forgot you already own a scene and buy it again. Don't expect they will throw resources at making it easier for you to not spend your money. Buyer beware.

Exactly. A proper trailer can make a scene so more enticing.
And yes, very annoying to see the same scene sold under different labels at (very) different prices.

[grey00owl]

Btw, ideal in my POV would be a 3-split into core LP studios / other studios LP owns (Private/GGG/DDF/Gangbros etc) and foreign studios just sold via pornbox (NRX/VK/NTS/OTS/Mixed Studios etc) - Such a graphic offer split would help with shopping experience. It would also help old Private/GGG/DDF/Gangbros users who dont want as much hardcore as LP I am sure.

Very good idea! I myself had suggested to separate the contents of the main studios from the rest, but this threesome structure is even better.

[dap-addict]

Ill throw this in here as it's really not too different.... Much like the alcohol/tobacco industry and drug industry, they're counting on a certain percentage of it's users becoming addicted and it's to them they prey upon. But unlike the above that has a "consumable" product, and must be constantly re-purchased. This isn't, This is owned, and can be kept forever. So I do believe we are seeing the results of you guys being very picky on what you buy. So in order to make up for less sales, price goes up. Knowing that a smaller amount of sales at a higher price will make up the difference and maybe more.

Its not only more heavy users getting more picky, but also not very refined passer-by users buying much less due to lockdown crisis. I roughly guess they sell half and thus to compensate profit decreases they have doubled the price.
This system has its limits of course.

Interesting would be to know the distribution of loyal users vs. passer-by customers. But such numbers nobody will ever reveal ofc.

[Starrio]

The solution is that no one ever buys anything with the new prices, but you know no one is going to do that, there is always going to be people that will buy at those prices, so the prices will remain high because of those people, and will continue to rise.

I'm new to site, and I think the prices of 2018 were fine. It is actually the last 4 months they it got out of hand.

It is not cost why the prices are higher, it is just because they can get away with it.

They ran the business just fine without the higher prices.

What I imagine happened someone freaked out about low sales at some point and decided to increase prices.

Every business has highs and lows, so they probably just didn't wait for the high again, and when they saw they were able to get away with the new prices they kept them.

It is not that there are less costumers, it is that they are pushing costumers away with the new prices, so it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

My guess is that they just don't have the patience to go through the lows without rising.

Thw problem is that when the high comes they are going to think it was a good decision, and we would never get decent prices ever again.

Unless people stops buying at higher prices, but again we know that's not going to happen.

At least they still have some good content here and there.

[filthyk9pissslut]

Studio Struggles because no one is buying -----------> Price increase -----> People stop buying because of the increased price
(Due to increased number of studios and
Video choices, every studio complains that
their videos are not selling)

^-------------------------------------------------------- Increases the price again (last resort)----------------------------------------------------------------^


Only one option, reduce the number of movies released per day & increase the quality, otherwise studios might collapse.

[filthyk9pissslut]

*It's a flow chart, view the page as desktop site(not Mobile)

[drevokocur66]

I always support what like, provided it is of a good quality.

[filthyk9pissslut]

Dismiss ameture dumb fuck studios

[filthyk9pissslut]

LP banned me, this is what I get in return for giving feedbacks... After a bright beautiful day comes dark scary night, don't forget... Goodbye LP

[Starrio]

You can't be banned if you are still writing here.

[Wotan29]

You can't be banned if you are still writing here.

You can be banned for a certain time.
Happened to me (one week) when I posted a picture of an anime horse "all the way through" penetration in a fun thread.
LOL!

[Starrio]

You can't be banned if you are still writing here.

You can be banned for a certain time.
Happened to me (one week) when I posted a picture of an anime horse "all the way through" penetration in a fun thread.
LOL!

That doesn't sound offensive, maybe the forum was down.

[filthyk9pissslut]

She wandered like a secret guardian,
was full of imperfections and lonely,
Like everyone she had her dark side,
But never forgot to come back in times of darkness...

[filthyk9pissslut]

Moon

[dap-addict]

I dont agree with most f9ps posts here, but this hits the nail sadly @ pornbox and also LP:

Studio Struggles because no one is buying -----------> Price increase -----> People stop buying because of the increased price
(Due to increased number of studios and
Video choices, every studio complains that
their videos are not selling)

^-------------------------------------------------------- Increases the price again (last resort)----------------------------------------------------------------^


Only one option, reduce the number of movies released per day & increase the quality, otherwise studios might collapse.

[dap-addict]

Only one option, reduce the number of movies released per day & increase the quality, otherwise studios might collapse.

I mean: Reduce non-core LP studios offerings on pornbox or put them into a sub-window, but if only feasible increase quality controlled LP core studio releases (gonzo, GIO/GLab, YE, N&F).

[Starrio]

The production is fine as it is. Too much quality and we would be spending more money, at least everything is expensive now, and we can look the back catalog, plus we still have to wait for the borders to open up, and that's going to be a nightmare because of all the good stuff that we probably will be getting then.

[filthyk9pissslut]

But you are the one who told not to buy, so they will reduce the price. If people listen, that will destroy this studio. Think before saying something,

[Starrio]

I never said such thing, read again, I said if no one bought anything with high prices they will be better again, but we know that's not going to happen because we are addicts.

Also having decent prices wouldn't break the studio, so stop talking out of your ass, didn't you said you were banned, you are so much drama.

[dap-addict]

we still have to wait for the borders to open up, and that's going to be a nightmare because of all the good stuff that we probably will be getting then.

Wont be a nightmare, but a lot of new opportunities.
Prices also might come down a bit because there will be more pressure on performer fees again.
Also studios can't wind up production so fast, they will probably not shoot much more scenes because they still have limited space, limited nr. of cameraman etc. Certainly wont happen that GIO for instance will have going a shooting parallel in all the 4 functioning rooms of his new studio! LOL!
No, new models from Russia have to queue again and those first booked will be first served.

[avanfurwet]

I don't agree with segregating the big department store that is Pornbox.

The smaller studios and one-woman/man operations who are selling their own content are probably benefiting from more traffic due to exposure in a larger shop window alongside the established big-selling studios.

And surfers can screen for their favourite studios using the "feeds" option if they care.

[filthyk9pissslut]

If no one buys the high priced videos, that studio is going to stop producing, the high price is due to their financial struggle. And the Quality depends many factors, mainly performance of the model, model physique&good look ,scripts, direction skill, etc... It's very hard to convince good looking girl to do nasty things, they have their limits, that's the main problem. 30-40 very good models(who are ready to do anything), a very good script writer(who has vivid magination) & a very good director that's a good studio needs. After one video, each model should get atleast 4 weeks time gap. When the number of studios increases the number of models available per studio decreases. When an ameture director makes a movie with a very good model, that movie is going to suck, people are going to hate that movie & the model(bcz of poor performance, people hate cheaters). So they stop buying that model's next movies. So in my opinion it's better to reduce the number of studios.., reduce the number of movies by increasing the quality. A very good coordinator is needed in LP.

[dap-addict]

I personally got used to it as it is now.
I scan the offers and pick the LP core studios while I dont see the others, a bit like in my porn when an actor I really dont like fucks a girl I like.

This said, I still do get the impression, once borders are open again and travel restrictions lifted, non-LP studios will be competition for old core LP studios. And I'd hope for LP studios to produce yet a bit more.