Price gouging -11.4 tkts/1 hr scene

[Ab.cad90210]

11.4 tkts for a 1hr scene??? Are they fucking nuts?? Or do they think we are?? Please don’t spend tickets till prices come down or they will ruin it for all of us.

First it was all scenes included in membership. Then 1-2 tkts/scene for ‘special’ new scenes but you could wait 1 year and get scene with free tkts. Then they made it 2 yrs then removed making scenes free tkt based entirely without telling us. Then removed free tkts. Scenes went from 1-2 tkts to 2-3 then 3-4 then 4-5/6. Now it’s price gauging.

[drevokocur66]

Already doing the same.

[stevemcgee3]

No need to complain, don't like it don't buy it. I must admit to spending 8 tickets on the new Kristy Black scene. But it was worth it goddammit.

[sarsastrid]

It's getting a mess with scenes without titles and names.
What's all that about?

[pastaga]

11,4 tkts = 5€
Just sayin'.

But yeah we're used to cheaper prices...

[grey00owl]

11,4 tkts = 5€
Just sayin'.

But yeah we're used to cheaper prices...

Actually it seems also to me a little too much. A moderate increase were not a problem, but this is enormous: we can buy practically the half of what we used to.
And I have to admit that I've become quite more cautious in spending my tickets, besides the fact that the number of real quality scenes has drastically decreased.

[Sir Noel]

I think it is quite exciting!

I am looking forward to milestones, like the first 15 ticket scene, or the first 20 ticket scene. Just waiting to see how high it can go!

[drevokocur66]

I think it is quite exciting!

I am looking forward to milestones, like the first 15 ticket scene, or the first 20 ticket scene. Just waiting to see how high it can go!

The home office has a small problem. People have unspent tickets. People holding on to tickets does not make LP money. They need people to spend tickets so they buy more. Me using my current 170 tickets in near future does not make LP money, they already have my money for those tix. They need me to purchase more tickets, or a subscription.

[Ab.cad90210]

11,4 tkts = 5€
Just sayin'.

But yeah we're used to cheaper prices...

Not really. 11.4 tkts buying 10 tkts costs £10.60 ie that one scene costs £12.84 ie €14.60 or $16.50 really expensive a scene when other sites charge That for Unlimited monthly membership with full unlimited back catalog. Two part scenes that are 6 tickets each cost even more.

Yes you can get it a bit cheaper buying a monthly membership where it works out around 60 euro cents a ticket but it’s still not great. Monthly you get only 42 tkts so that’s at 11.4 tkts 3.6 scenes a month Or 3 x 2 part scenes for your monthly membership fee. Or you could get the lovely OTS scenes i’ve seen prices like 12 tickets for 8 min Looool. So with your monthly membership you can watch 25 min of homemade amateur porn. LOL.

I really don’t know what the hell LP was thinking to dilute this incredible brand with so much shit porn. used to buy 40% of the scenes released now I haven’t bought one for months. it’s too much effort to filter through the shit being made. Yes I have a big store of tickets.

[Ab.cad90210]

Found something even better. Queen Eugenia 7.5 tkts for a 4 min scene! So with monthly membership you get 20 min of 1 girl masturbating LOL

[Ab.cad90210]

11,4 tkts = 5€
Just sayin'.

But yeah we're used to cheaper prices...

Actually it seems also to me a little too much. A moderate increase were not a problem, but this is enormous: we can buy practically the half of what we used to.
And I have to admit that I've become quite more cautious in spending my tickets, besides the fact that the number of real quality scenes has drastically decreased.

It’s way less than half. It’s 1/5th ie 80% drop compared to when I joined Because then scenes were 1-3 tickets MAX, no 2 part scenes, they had a back catalog free, and free tickets for scenes older than 1 year. also until recently 10/10 girls like Kira Thorn STARTED on first scene as orgy where she sucked out 7 creampies out of a prolapsing asshole ON HER FIRST SCENE. THAT was the LP I want to support.

Wtf happened now?

[sarsastrid]

11,4 tkts = 5€
Just sayin'.

But yeah we're used to cheaper prices...

Actually it seems also to me a little too much. A moderate increase were not a problem, but this is enormous: we can buy practically the half of what we used to.
And I have to admit that I've become quite more cautious in spending my tickets, besides the fact that the number of real quality scenes has drastically decreased.

It’s way less than half. It’s 1/5th ie 80% drop compared to when I joined Because then scenes were 1-3 tickets MAX, no 2 part scenes, they had a back catalog free, and free tickets for scenes older than 1 year. also until recently 10/10 girls like Kira Thorn STARTED on first scene as orgy where she sucked out 7 creampies out of a prolapsing asshole ON HER FIRST SCENE. THAT was the LP I want to support.

Wtf happened now?

So please enlighten us all and tell us what YOU think the f... happened?

[RedBaron]

The ticket hike is no problem to me as long as the quality is bad like now. I buy almost nothing!
I stopped my recurring membership with over 200 tkt and two month later I still have about 170 tkt.

If the quality is better someday hopefully, I will pick the best scenes and will not spend more tickets than before.
I will pick the well known girls because I know what I will get. Very bad to the new girls!

To me their business plan looks very risky to loose models and customers.

[Ab.cad90210]

So please enlighten us all and tell us what YOU think the f... happened?

I think they stopped recruiting EU/Russian models - cycle effect of less people buying money went bad even less models etc. Price gouging more expensive scenes is a recipe for disaster. Short term gain for long term loss.

[Sweep11]

These are unprecedented times and I hope temporary price increases.
The OTS pricing is just plain dumb but that’s not LP’s decision I believe, it’s the actresses supplying material that decide.
I’m still buying Gonzo and Giorgio/lab scenes when they are up to standard.
Can’t argue with supply and demand. I can’t find the same quality anywhere else so my demand remains.
Besides, I choose to support the company that brought me the best porn ever made for the past X years.
If we all boycott now because times are tough we might kill the golden goose. Is that really what you want?

[bake0213]

These are unprecedented times and I hope temporary price increases.
The OTS pricing is just plain dumb but that’s not LP’s decision I believe, it’s the actresses supplying material that decide.
I’m still buying Gonzo and Giorgio/lab scenes when they are up to standard.
Can’t argue with supply and demand. I can’t find the same quality anywhere else so my demand remains.
Besides, I choose to support the company that brought me the best porn ever made for the past X years.
If we all boycott now because times are tough we might kill the golden goose. Is that really what you want?

I have not heard calls for a boycott. That being said, loyalty should be a two way street. Is AnalVidsdotcom or whatever the hell its supposed to be called this week loyal to you? Why would you extend any more loyalty than is granted to you? Otherwise, it is just exploitation. Think with both brains and make the decision that is best for you.

[stevemcgee3]

Loyalty doesn't matter, content does. Spend $5 on a beer that I will enjoy for five minutes or spend $5 on a Nicole Black scene that I will enjoy forever? Hmmm. Quit acting like the folks at Pornbox owe you anything, no one is forcing you to spend your money here. Besides, there are plenty of quality scenes on pornbox for cheap

[avanfurwet]

Loyalty doesn't matter, content does. Spend $5 on a beer that I will enjoy for five minutes or spend $5 on a Nicole Black scene that I will enjoy forever? Hmmm. Quit acting like the folks at Pornbox owe you anything, no one is forcing you to spend your money here. Besides, there are plenty of quality scenes on pornbox for cheap

Agree.

Compared with other clipstores, LP prices don't seem so expensive.

LP takes the risk of building and operating the platform. Studios take the risk of producing original content (of varying quality) and setting their prices.

The silent majority of customers will either buy enough copies of each scene to make the pricing policy work, or they won't. That is all.

A tiny minority of members will complain like old women about a business which owes them nothing, and about which they know less than nothing.
Some of the complaints are just ridiculous. Claiming LP is not featuring new models is obviously false. Complaining that you bought many tickets in advance and now can't or won't spend them so it must be somebody else's fault is just embarrassing yourself.

Nice of LP to provide the complainers with a free uncensored forum where they can cry as much as they want.


Trying to think positively, FWIW I think there are opportunities LP could consider:

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

The platform could do more to reward customer loyalty e.g.

~ more than one tier of monthly membership, with cheaper rates per ticket for bigger repeat charges (like with top-ups).
~ maybe add the possibility to earn a small credit in the form of additional tickets for spending above certain levels (like a "cashback" incentive)
~ maybe discount or give away the Xmas special scenes to members who've spent enough during the year, and charge everyone else full price.

[drevokocur66]

Loyalty doesn't matter, content does. Spend $5 on a beer that I will enjoy for five minutes or spend $5 on a Nicole Black scene that I will enjoy forever? Hmmm. Quit acting like the folks at Pornbox owe you anything, no one is forcing you to spend your money here. Besides, there are plenty of quality scenes on pornbox for cheap

Agree.

Compared with other clipstores, LP prices don't seem so expensive.

LP takes the risk of building and operating the platform. Studios take the risk of producing original content (of varying quality) and setting their prices.

The silent majority of customers will either buy enough copies of each scene to make the pricing policy work, or they won't. That is all.

A tiny minority of members will complain like old women about a business which owes them nothing, and about which they know less than nothing.
Some of the complaints are just ridiculous. Claiming LP is not featuring new models is obviously false. Complaining that you bought many tickets in advance and now can't or won't spend them so it must be somebody else's fault is just embarrassing yourself.

So you agree that loyalty does not matter, but want to reward loyalty?

Nice of LP to provide the complainers with a free uncensored forum where they can cry as much as they want.


Trying to think positively, FWIW I think there are opportunities LP could consider:

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

The platform could do more to reward customer loyalty e.g.

~ more than one tier of monthly membership, with cheaper rates per ticket for bigger repeat charges (like with top-ups).
~ maybe add the possibility to earn a small credit in the form of additional tickets for spending above certain levels (like a "cashback" incentive)
~ maybe discount or give away the Xmas special scenes to members who've spent enough during the year, and charge everyone else full price.

[drevokocur66]

Loyalty doesn't matter, content does. Spend $5 on a beer that I will enjoy for five minutes or spend $5 on a Nicole Black scene that I will enjoy forever? Hmmm. Quit acting like the folks at Pornbox owe you anything, no one is forcing you to spend your money here. Besides, there are plenty of quality scenes on pornbox for cheap

Agree.

Compared with other clipstores, LP prices don't seem so expensive.

LP takes the risk of building and operating the platform. Studios take the risk of producing original content (of varying quality) and setting their prices.

The silent majority of customers will either buy enough copies of each scene to make the pricing policy work, or they won't. That is all.

A tiny minority of members will complain like old women about a business which owes them nothing, and about which they know less than nothing.
Some of the complaints are just ridiculous. Claiming LP is not featuring new models is obviously false. Complaining that you bought many tickets in advance and now can't or won't spend them so it must be somebody else's fault is just embarrassing yourself.

Nice of LP to provide the complainers with a free uncensored forum where they can cry as much as they want.


Trying to think positively, FWIW I think there are opportunities LP could consider:

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

The platform could do more to reward customer loyalty e.g.

~ more than one tier of monthly membership, with cheaper rates per ticket for bigger repeat charges (like with top-ups).
~ maybe add the possibility to earn a small credit in the form of additional tickets for spending above certain levels (like a "cashback" incentive)
~ maybe discount or give away the Xmas special scenes to members who've spent enough during the year, and charge everyone else full price.

So you agree that loyalty does not matter, but want to reward loyalty?

[avanfurwet]

Loyalty doesn't matter, content does. Spend $5 on a beer that I will enjoy for five minutes or spend $5 on a Nicole Black scene that I will enjoy forever? Hmmm. Quit acting like the folks at Pornbox owe you anything, no one is forcing you to spend your money here. Besides, there are plenty of quality scenes on pornbox for cheap

Agree.

... etc..

So you agree that loyalty does not matter, but want to reward loyalty?

I think loyalty matters little compared to content. Didn't bother splitting hairs, but I do agree with the rest of his post.

I think LP could choose to do more with little paybacks to encourage customers to feel valued, remain members and spend more, whilst they increase prices with the other hand. Just like any business. But it's their business and they'll do what they want.

[Sir Noel]

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

Or just be honest about it. The annoying part for me was the constant claims that LP is selling more scenes than ever before and more profitable than ever before (whenever they were ever criticised), alongside claims that scene prices somehow need to increase (seemingly almost double) for them to make money.

I get it. They have calculated they can milk a smaller pool of "whales" for a lot more per scene and overall the drop off in sales is more than mitigated by the increase in sales price per scene. I have no issues with that at all. If they can sell each scene once for a million tickets to one person and make more then go for it. Just don't piss on my boots and tell me it is raining.

[Wotan29]

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

Or just be honest about it. The annoying part for me was the constant claims that LP is selling more scenes than ever before and more profitable than ever before (whenever they were ever criticised), alongside claims that scene prices somehow need to increase (seemingly almost double) for them to make money.

I get it. They have calculated they can milk a smaller pool of "whales" for a lot more per scene and overall the drop off in sales is more than mitigated by the increase in sales price per scene. I have no issues with that at all. If they can sell each scene once for a million tickets to one person and make more then go for it. Just don't piss on my boots and tell me it is raining.

THIS!

[Sweep11]

These are unprecedented times and I hope temporary price increases.
The OTS pricing is just plain dumb but that’s not LP’s decision I believe, it’s the actresses supplying material that decide.
I’m still buying Gonzo and Giorgio/lab scenes when they are up to standard.
Can’t argue with supply and demand. I can’t find the same quality anywhere else so my demand remains.
Besides, I choose to support the company that brought me the best porn ever made for the past X years.
If we all boycott now because times are tough we might kill the golden goose. Is that really what you want?

I have not heard calls for a boycott. That being said, loyalty should be a two way street. Is AnalVidsdotcom or whatever the hell its supposed to be called this week loyal to you? Why would you extend any more loyalty than is granted to you? Otherwise, it is just exploitation. Think with both brains and make the decision that is best for you.

I do not extend more loyalty than is due and I already make the decision that is right for me. I buy only the scenes I consider value for money, as I always have.
But I do have a sense of loyalty to some extent. If I could buy the same scene elsewhere at a discount vs LP price I probably wouldn’t. For the same reason I don’t watch pirated content on tube sites. Because it’s LP that has built this porn empire catering to my exact tastes. No other site has given me so much of what I want. And no other site is going to keep turning out beautiful babes getting royally fucked night after night.
So yes, I’d appreciate a little more loyalty from LP and better communication about decisions but I don’t expect to get either.

[Sweep11]

Btw, “I have not heard calls for a boycott”?

Re-read the 4th sentence of the original post...

[drevokocur66]

Quality product, at a fair price I have no problem with. I appreciate it, and reward it with loyalty. But if they feel like, milking it is the right move here, it is their business.

[avanfurwet]

Or just be honest about it. The annoying part for me was the constant claims that LP is selling more scenes than ever before and more profitable than ever before (whenever they were ever criticised), alongside claims that scene prices somehow need to increase (seemingly almost double) for them to make money.

Could someone please point to where some of these constant claims appear? Thanks.

I may be blind or silly but I only remember XXX saying they have more members than ever, which isn't the same thing.

It would be out of character for LP to boast about sales and profits when normally they tell us nothing about pretty much everything.
It would also be a bit silly since. as people have been quick to point out, LP are increasing prices, a lot.

[davebowman]

There is another option besides either a total boycott, or buying everything no matter the price out of loyalty: if you think current prices are too high, go back through the archive and spend your tickets on those past lower priced scenes that you missed at the time - there are so many hundreds of them, I expect few people have got all the great ones. Legal Porno still get some revenue, and just possibly if they look at the numbers and see no one is buying the super expensive scenes, some adjustments may be made in future to a different model.

[grey00owl]

There is another option besides either a total boycott, or buying everything no matter the price out of loyalty: if you think current prices are too high, go back through the archive and spend your tickets on those past lower priced scenes that you missed at the time - there are so many hundreds of them, I expect few people have got all the great ones. Legal Porno still get some revenue, and just possibly if they look at the numbers and see no one is buying the super expensive scenes, some adjustments may be made in future to a different model.

This is a good advice: even though I owe really very much of LP scenes, I find again and again some desirable footage that I skipped or overlooked.
I also hope that they could revise one time this price policy, which I find wrong. We don't know the numbers, but I think that they are not increasing their profit, as many customers are annoyed and not willing to pay those steep prices, especially in front of an incostant quality (I speak now about models choice, not technical level, that in core production is very good). I myself think twice now before clicking the buy button and certainly would purchase much more, also of that OTS stuff, if fairly priced.

[Sir Noel]

Could someone please point to where some of these constant claims appear? Thanks.

I may be blind or silly but I only remember XXX saying they have more members than ever, which isn't the same thing.

It would be a nightmare to try and find them, often buried in individual model threads etc. It isn't worth the effort to me just to prove an inconsequential point to one person on the internet.
It was a regular "go to" for Giorgio. When someone posted criticising him and saying his material was going downhill and people will be turned away for too much DAP; too repetitive etc, he would point to sales being higher than ever before.
Similarly, both xxx and Giorgio had discussed the best sellers list and how it is proliferated with newer models and scenes that sales are just a lot higher than they were three or four years ago, hence that all time list is skewed towards newer material.

[avanfurwet]

I guess higher sales for more recent models makes sense, because a well managed business should grow steadily over time, and LP is a successful brand.
So the professional studios e.g. GIO should be able to spread their production costs over a larger number of copies sold. We don't know how much larger.
All other things being equal, that would yield higher profits at the same selling price. Of course, all other things aren't equal and aren't known to us.
So maybe LP studios are making higher profits and raising prices because they can. Their choice, their risk and their reward.

[grey00owl]

Their choice, their risk and their reward.

Yes, it's their business. We have however the choice to buy or not, and it's clear that we would buy more at lower prices.

[avanfurwet]

People can spend their money as they please, and will spend it elsewhere if they want.

But spending c.$5 once or twice a week doesn't make anyone a "whale" at any online entertainment business. Not even at fatchancecasino.com.

[avanfurwet]

Their choice, their risk and their reward.

Yes, it's their business. We have however the choice to buy or not, and it's clear that we would buy more at lower prices.

If "we" is a tiny minority participating in this forum then they probably won't take any notice. No reason to assume "we" are a representative sample.

[Sir Noel]

So maybe LP studios are making higher profits and raising prices because they can. Their choice, their risk and their reward.

Absolutely. It is their choice. I am excited to see how high they can go now (excepting GG scenes as i still like to buy the odd one). What the market will sustain. Will the Xmas orgy be the first twenty ticket scene? I hope so!!!

[dpconnoisseur1]

Studios could communicate more/better about justifying their reasons for any scene price rises. A few fools will still try to argue and complain, but fuck it, they do that anyway. Studios don't need to respond to mindless bitching.

Or just be honest about it. The annoying part for me was the constant claims that LP is selling more scenes than ever before and more profitable than ever before (whenever they were ever criticised), alongside claims that scene prices somehow need to increase (seemingly almost double) for them to make money.

I get it. They have calculated they can milk a smaller pool of "whales" for a lot more per scene and overall the drop off in sales is more than mitigated by the increase in sales price per scene. I have no issues with that at all. If they can sell each scene once for a million tickets to one person and make more then go for it. Just don't piss on my boots and tell me it is raining.

THIS!

+1, Agree! I don't get it myself but the COVID19 pandemic provided the perfect scenario for this price increase and direction change from branded fetish focus content site to generic clip store. So all we can do is buy or not buy the content. That is our only means to show our opinions of the direction change. I do remember reading both XXX and Giorgio post about how great LP was doing with more customers and profit than ever when people were talking about LP imminent demise because of its reliance of extreme content scaring away gorgeous models. If that was true, how are they also losing money requiring these price hikes. They both can't be possibly true, so someone was lying before or they are lying now.

1. Could I afford these price hikes ?
   Yes
2. Do I want to pay them ?
   No
3. what I found though is more about the content ?
   Most of LP current content is not appealing to me anymore and the price hikes changes me from a loyal to a casual purchaser. I went from buying daily scenes to now maybe once or twice every two weeks! LP rarely cared about my opinion when I was a high volume consumer of scenes before so I know they really could care less about my opinion now that I buy a scene once or twice every two weeks.
4. LP/AnalVids is a clip store so why even talk about tickets and membership ?
   They need to switch to another purchasing system based on straight money for scenes no conversion metric to tickets. I know XXX talked about it before when people were complaining about needed more purchasing options to get better discount for high volume ticket purchasers.
5. Specifically for the 11.4 scene (SZ2469)
   I'm glad the scene is doing well because I'm a huge fan of Cindy Shine and Anna de Ville but it was pass on PRINCIPLE for me.

[analheroin]

[quote="dpconnoisseur1"][quote="Wotan29"][quote="Sir Noel"][quote="avanfurwet"]Most of LP current content is not appealing to me anymore and the price hikes changes me from a loyal to a casual purchaser. I went from buying daily scenes to now maybe once or twice every two weeks! [b][color=#FF0000]LP rarely cared about my opinion when I was a high volume consumer of scenes before so I know they really could care less about my opinion now that I buy a scene once or twice every two weeks./quote]
I used to feel the same way, devoted to certain sites. I was a loyal Kink member and Evil Angel. It all eventually comes down to the sites making as much $$$ as they can. They don't actually (or have they ever) cared about fans/customers. We are the $$$ and perhaps lucky that someone with a brain is producing content we like to follow. If this is the end of LP being innovative or creative, so be it. Kink had its heyday too and EA is quickly going vanilla (can't tell the difference between scenes anymore). COVID has fucked up a great many things my friends.

[TheVulture]

I think the prices are in principle OK for the content being provided. On a personal level, however, I definitely have limits because the tone of LP generally is a little more aggressive and male-dominant than I would like. I frequently drop in and out of membership for this reason. This means that my loyalty level is pretty low. The previously quite low prices were important for me as a little bit of a safety net. If I spent £25 on 6 gangbang scenes (tremendous value), say, but 4 were unusable because Angelo Godshack goes nuts wrapping his massive bicep around a girl's throat for like 10 minutes, Mike Chapman spends a whole scene basically going "Me! Look at me!", Neeo repositions his hands fifty times in 5 minutes or Freddy Gong verbally abuses a girl or whatever then I'm left with much worse value. Generally the very best I get from LP scenes is that the girls and sex are outstanding and the guys' actions are just about tolerable in the main/not too annoyingly macho/aggressive.

If LP ever produced scenes that were genuinely hotter and of a more consensual, balanced nature (eg no throat-grabbing, face-slapping, the girls being encouraged to sizzle more etc.) then I would gladly pay the new higher prices. But I won't hold my breath as that has never really been the LP ethos. I'm still seeing enough value to keep me interested based on the usual style and will just play it all by ear.

[TheVulture]

Please don't anyone respond to my last bit by saying "Go to Porn World" or whatever. Clearly I'm talking about Giorgio/Gonzo strength porn without those things I don't like.

[grey00owl]

I think the prices are in principle OK for the content being provided. On a personal level, however, I definitely have limits because the tone of LP generally is a little more aggressive and male-dominant than I would like. I frequently drop in and out of membership for this reason. This means that my loyalty level is pretty low. The previously quite low prices were important for me as a little bit of a safety net. If I spent £25 on 6 gangbang scenes (tremendous value), say, but 4 were unusable because Angelo Godshack goes nuts wrapping his massive bicep around a girl's throat for like 10 minutes, Mike Chapman spends a whole scene basically going "Me! Look at me!", Neeo repositions his hands fifty times in 5 minutes or Freddy Gong verbally abuses a girl or whatever then I'm left with much worse value. Generally the very best I get from LP scenes is that the girls and sex are outstanding and the guys' actions are just about tolerable in the main/not too annoyingly macho/aggressive.

If LP ever produced scenes that were genuinely hotter and of a more consensual, balanced nature (eg no throat-grabbing, face-slapping, the girls being encouraged to sizzle more etc.) then I would gladly pay the new higher prices. But I won't hold my breath as that has never really been the LP ethos. I'm still seeing enough value to keep me interested based on the usual style and will just play it all by ear.

Okay, we're going once again off topic, but here we go.
Well, to each his own, but I think that the large majority of LP customers like that aggressive, macho-like mood and style. I personally like manhandle a lot, but find it attractive and exciting only when it is liked and felt by both male and female performers. Otherwise, agree with you, it's something put on, a turn-off. I often criticised GG scenes with the Manhandle tag, because of exactly this impression of faked and put on. Me too don't see any sense by wrapping an arm around a woman's throat. Also very annoying to see Angelo slapping Nicole Love's face at the same pace, with the same intensity, without any words, like a robot: this is not what I intend with manhandle and is definitely not what I like to see. Take a look at Rocco Siffredi's footages: that's real manhandle, and it's great and exciting.