Giorgio Grandi says porn is fiction, is that right?

[JASON15938]

This thread is cancer, as I knew it would be.

b cr ful

[dap-addict]

I think its too much to ask from porn performers to really lust for each other on a porn set and its naive to expect that.

It's too much to expect highly sexed, physically elite and incredibly attractive young men and women to lust for each other on a porn set? Are you sure about this?
(...)
I think the problem with your analysis is that you create ready-made excuses for producers to make average porn and for the performers to just go through the motions.

Sorry, Vulture, but I think you are naively oversimplifying things.
Porn is a kind of art of course and actors and actresses are best if they really lust for each other, but to expect this is still extremely naive given the process of porn shootings on 99% of professional porn sets today. So what we need to get for the user is convincing acting.

Did you ever watch any of Luis BTS or the new GIO ones?
What did you see there?
Any conclusions?

[TheVulture]

Did you ever watch any of Luis BTS or the new GIO ones?
What did you see there?
Any conclusions?

Ah I don't watch those fella. I suppose it's maybe part of not wanting to spoil the illusion but also I don't know that any of the participants will be entirely honest when the camera is on them looking for some kind of "insight" or whatever. They're likely to say what they think the director wants them to say I think. It's likely a bit like post-match sports analysis from the star players. Going through the motions kind of thing. Don't tell me what you think, just show me. I'll make my own mind up based on that.

[InsideA41YearOldGirl]

Extremely attractive young men.

Eh eh eh.

Look, I'm not out here to hurt the ego of anybody, but most of the men on LP aren't even remotely attractive. I think the only guy to ever fit that label is Chris Diamond. I think Erik Everhard was also not that bad looking.

Guys were selected to be here by the size of their penises, not being camera shy and ability to keep an erection.

Women aren't lusting for any men here and whatever is on their minds is something else. Hell, over 95 of women are straight, they are probably not even thinking of women when having lesbian sex.

It's all acting. Sure, the friction may be good, but women aren't really liking the guys with who they have sex.

And that is why they are called porn actresses.

[TheVulture]

And that is why they are called porn actresses.

Who calls them that though really? I think the vast majority of people refer to them as porn stars. I certainly do. You wouldn't really give them the credit for "acting" and rightly so as generally they don't.

[InsideA41YearOldGirl]

Normal people. Nobody calls wrestlers superstars in the real world, that is a WWE term.

Same with pornstars. It's porn actresses, they fake having pleasure. It's not hard as you think. Acting isn't that hard as you think, that why directors usually don't think highly of them. Specially when they don't have to pretend sadness or happiness, they just have to be pretending to like all those things I saw on screen.

Vulture, for the love of God, please, break off the programming, those girls are paid to do it. This is the last time I will explain it to you, I don't want to deal with someone who refuses to see the truth.

[dap-addict]

Currently instructing a girl to fake her orgasms better on set, Vulture.
Does she do it out of pleasure? - No, she does it for the money.
Does she enjoy her porn work? - Better than many other jobs so far.
Ok, Vulture, you'd say she's only 1 in 1000. Thus the left 999 fit your definition. What can I say?

[dap-addict]

edit: 1 of 13760 actually.
https://pornbox.com/application/model/list

[101mike101]

Fiction is when actors fake their fighting, their killing, and their traveling in space or something like that. Because they aren't really doing it. It's just visual effects.

But in porn, penetrations are real. The banging is real too. The groping and the tit and the ass grabbing is also real. And so is gaping. None of this is fake.

The only compromise you have in porn is the breaks porn actors and actresses get in between their action sequences. They might take a few minutes break in between their sex positions or between their banging and the final cum shot. Or if they have some trouble getting their anal or DP going, then they might cut out some of their unsuccessful attempts.

But this kind of editing in porn doesn't mean that it's fake. Because the things they edit out might be hot in themselves for some porn-fans. This is like behind the scenes action that many porn-fans enjoy watching. Both the things porn films show and the sequences that are edited out are real. Perhaps this reality is distorted, when some of it is cut out. But this doesn't make it fake, the way the killing or the space travel in mainstream movies is.

Fake is when everything is fake, rather than some reality cut out from everything that's real.

And when it comes to feelings, then there is no guarantee that they are what you think they are in any sex situation and not just in porn. Because you can't read other people's minds and know what they think and feel. In this regard, you are just guessing regardless of whether this is porn or any other sexual situation. Even your wife could be faking her feelings and her reactions for all you know during your plow. Because you can't read her mind.

So, it makes no sense at all to say that people's feelings are real in one situation but not in another. Because you don't know in either case. It's just a guess, unless the people in the situation openly tell you what they are feeling and what they are thinking. But even then you need to take their word for it. Because you have no way of knowing whether they are telling you the truth or not.

[TheVulture]

Currently instructing a girl to fake her orgasms better on set, Vulture.
Does she do it out of pleasure? - No, she does it for the money.
Does she enjoy her porn work? - Better than many other jobs so far.
Ok, Vulture, you'd say she's only 1 in 1000. Thus the left 999 fit your definition. What can I say?

I don't think anyone would suggest that there aren't girls like you mention in porn or even that there aren't many of them. The important point (to me) is that I don't buy their scenes. I don't know who you're talking about but I would bet a small fortune that it isn't Barbie Sins. Or Anna de Ville. Or Rebecca Sharon. Or Alicia Trece etc. etc. Those girls clearly love their porn sex. And that essentially is why they are elite porn stars and why what they do on camera is not and never could be "fiction".

[Jocke]

Most people choose occupations they like. In every occupation there are people who love what they do. Not all the time but fairly often.

I have watched enough interviews to believe that quite a few top performers who have several years of experience truly enjoy their work. Riley Reid in one interview complained that she was approached by potential boyfriends but was upset when they wanted her to quit a job she loved to become monogamous.

Most people enjoy sex. It is probably one of the strongest if not the strongest desire. People go to sex clubs and have sex with other swingers who may be less attractive than porn stars, they still do it without payment. Why wouldn't any of those do it if they were also paid to do it?

On the other hand, if you had to record several scenes a week to maintain a steady income, probably several of those scenes would feel like a chore. Not bad but a bit like eating when you are already full.

Imagine you worked for a magazine and were expected to go to different restaurants every evening and eat what someone else had picked from the menu and then write an opinion. Maybe you would want to eat at home more often, maybe you would want to go to different restaurants or eat something else from the menu that day but you were still a food lover and often came across new food you enjoyed more than you had expected and the food was of great quality and big variety and then on top you were paid to do it. Would you say that you did it for the money or the pleasure or both?
I guarantee that the best food reviews are by people who truly love food.

[Paizal]

But in porn, penetrations are real. The banging is real too.

It is naive to believe that everything is real. Most TAP penetrations are fake. A lot of what Greg Lansky shot was fake. With the right camera angles, you can fake a lot.

[dap-addict]

Did you ever watch any of Luis BTS or the new GIO ones?
What did you see there?
Any conclusions?

Ah I don't watch those fella. I suppose it's maybe part of not wanting to spoil the illusion but also I don't know that any of the participants will be entirely honest when the camera is on them looking for some kind of "insight" or whatever. They're likely to say what they think the director wants them to say I think.

You are loosing a lot, Vulture.
And you know, its clearly not about any pre-/post scene interviews, but a second camera showing how these videos are filmed. Thus me as a hardcore anal only porn user I get the pussy only warm-ups never shown in final cut video and the very slow anal insertions prior to the ones shown in final products. We also get some of the breaks taken, some of the boring sitting around, some cuddling also and some of the manhandling poses looking so hard and unpleasant in final cut but being so much light hearted fake in on-set filming reality.

BTS sure would kill some illusions you foster, but it also would show you some really nice girls with that gloom of genuine lust you are looking for. Dont expect much of that on the studs side, though. But also there you'd notice some graduations, showing on video later as well.

[dap-addict]

edit: gradations, ofc, sorry!
LOL!

[101mike101]

But in porn, penetrations are real. The banging is real too.

It is naive to believe that everything is real. Most TAP penetrations are fake. A lot of what Greg Lansky shot was fake. With the right camera angles, you can fake a lot.

TAPs and DAPs aren't my thing anyway. And in DPs you can usually see it well enough to be sure that it's not fake.

When the angle is such that you can't be sure about what's going on, then this is an immediate turn off for me. Because I know right away that this might not be real.

In vast majority of scenes you cans see what's going on enough to be sure that it's not fake. Because virtually every porn fan wants real, rather than fake. Fake is a turn off for everyone and not just for me.

[OKCTwister]

It is indeed difficult to fake DP for we generally have a crystal clear view of the length of the dick inside each hole
DAP in Analvids has paved the way to the culture of phoniness and dishonesty to the point that them producers motivate and justify that since porn is fiction, then it's okay to fake penetrations, jizz, pussy squirt (which in reality is pee), swallow (camera does not show empty mouth), boobs, lips, etc.

[OKCTwister]

Is there something wrong with that... to me yes and it's the deliberate distortion of reality when the real can simply live and naturally flow. The way Analvids persistently edit sounds when there's actually nothing to edit there
The definition of eroticism is based on simulating penetrations, orgasm and cum. This is partially why I insist in cataloguing Analvids as softcore porn. The pace is similar to those set in the erotica genre. Farts are cut off, just like shit stains, etc. Everything is picture perfect and eye candy like the plasticity in those Playboy magazines.
In woodman and amateur porn like J&M the sex is raw, crude and organic
Analvids is large-scale industrial mass production of pre-heated and pre-formatted over-edited pornographic renderings mechanically executed that please the masses who consume without thinking, feeling and assimilating

[Pineapples Studio]

I thought that was your first contribution but then I noticed this bit:

the participants are hired as performers to act out the scene for your benefit, and not for their own gratification

That's bizarre. Why do those 2 things have to be mutually exclusive?

I never said that they did. I just said that the The participants are hired as performers. That is what they are there to do, so that is what they should be focused on delivery, but if they enjoy themselves in the process of doing it, then that’s great.

But to answer your question, the participants do not necessarily need to enjoy themselves to deliver a good performance. Case in point - and I’ll never forget this - there is a fantastic 21Sextury scene with the Czech Lucie Lee (Pauly’s excited now) where she plays a secretary doing really strong anal with her boss, I believe with Frank Major. It’s one of my favorite scenes that she ever did. Anyway, the scene has a BTS video as well, in which we can see that Lucie is actually yawning and staring off into space during breaks in the filming. Nevertheless, she delivered a scorching performance, and she’s a smoke show on top of that.

And what does "act out the scene" mean in that context? Act out hardcore fucking? Hmm. I just don't get that and again just find it all very depressing, like you don't really enjoy porn.

You are almost as persistent as Pauly. I don’t know how to explain it to you more fully than I already have.

[Pineapples Studio]

*focused on delivering

Fuck, I’ve gotta stop using speech to text.

[dap-addict]

I don't know who you're talking about but I would bet a small fortune that it isn't Barbie Sins. Or Anna de Ville. Or Rebecca Sharon. Or Alicia Trece etc. etc. Those girls clearly love their porn sex. And that essentially is why they are elite porn stars and why what they do on camera is not and never could be "fiction".

Well, Vulture, for Alicia Trece - and Daniela Ortiz or didnt you think of her, too - watch GIO BTS pt. 6 (https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/217500)!

Invest those 4,5tkt and from this point lets pursue discussion otherwise its just illusion and delusion but nothing to do with any kind of on-set reality.

[Jocke]

Another boring day at the mill...

[Panorama]

Ok here's my take,

I think that yeah most porn is faked, I think a lot like what there doing, but I think most just do it for the money. You will always get those that say it's all faked because they've heard this porn star or that porn star say they only did it for the money. And you'll always get those who say it's all real because they want it to be. Truth is, most people watch porn to get off so spend little time noticing actions and gestures that can tell you a lot about how someone is feeling. I've been watching porn YEARS and can tell pretty accurately when someone's "faking it". But I don't just go on moans and words. Not only do I like porn, but I also like to people-watch in general. You can tell a hell of a lot from a brief gesture that someone flashes you subconsciously. It's something they can't help and don't even know they're doing, but it gives you a huge insight into their state of mind. If you look very carefully at people you can see beyond the smiles, moans and "Oh yeah babies" and see what's really happening.
I'll give you one example, and it's because I've been studying her in detail for years. Eufrat Mai was one of the most natural lesbian performers of her time, and I think many of her scenes had genuine orgasms in them. Even ones that she didn't orgasm in I can guarantee you she certainly enjoyed them. But yes, she was a really good actress also and faked plenty. She always admitted that she was bi-sexual, and most people were like Oh year right whatever. But by watching how she interacted with some women (not all) I became quite adept and being able to tell who she was genuinely attracted to, and who she wasn't. She also said that yes, she did lesbian porn for the money, but it was a perk because she got to fuck gorgeous women. In contrast, if you look at her boy/girl work, you can see a marked difference in how she interacts with a male, even though it was her own boyfriend. You've just got to look a lot deeper into someone's gestures to see if they're telling you the truth.
So, no I don't agree that porn is fiction, I believe a lot of it may be, but you have to pick your performers and your scenes but to say it's all fake I think is too simplistic.

Just my thought.

[Jocke]

Yes, look at the smile and wink in my previous post. That is impossible to fake.

[scarletxxx666]

This thread is cancer, as I knew it would be.

b cr ful

what does that image means????

[scarletxxx666]

is fake in the way that it cannot be replicable in real life

because there are tons of stds everywhere so average persons cant do the orgies u see in the videos

is not viable

[dap-addict]

Another boring day at the mill...

That's a wonderful .gif!
But well, she is pleasing the cameraman, and I bet its still Giorgio and not Andrey here. This said the smile prior to her eye-contact with the camera is the most touching proof she does a job for money she actually also enjoys a lot!

Just to sum some things up: I never claimed girls didnt enjoy their work, on country some do a lot. Also Giorgio Grandi didnt claim such a thing, all he said is that porn was fiction and thus anal creampies might as well get faked in order to look better in the end product. (see page 1)

[Jocke]

Yes, I think fiction is not the same as faked feelings.

In non porn movies we do not expect the actors to be in love just because their characters are, that is fiction.
In porn we do not expect that the actors would have chosen each other as sex partners or had sex in the prescribed way if they were in private, it is fictional

However, they still often derive pleasure and have real orgasms. They many times have a great day at work and when we as the audience perceive their pleasure we get touched too, at least I do.

Fake cum give me nothing, unfortunately.

[OKCTwister]

Another boring day at the mill...

That's indeed boring
To me porn should be sweat and cum, burning pain, blue balls, heavy breathing, a pounding heart surrounded by an angry mob of throbbing dicks
These kind of orgy play where everybody is teasing and faking projecting a veneer of beauty and dumb naughtiness is a real turn off
I only get aroused by a solo chick taking 1 dick in the pussy another one in the ass, and virulently jerking 2 dicks while giving a double blowjob
I know girls who like to do that because they are the center of attention (not a circus distraction) which get their heart pounding as if they were about to get gang raped
Such women are another league of their own
That's the difference between my conception of porn and that majority who can only watch "porn" where females give that cosmetic smile every time, where everything is neat and pristine, where there is no shit, fart, blood or spunk and even where condom is used to fuck and give blowjob

[Jocke]

I feel sorry for you.

[OKCTwister]

Well I'm not
What's the point of watching women who give pleasure while advertising a radiant smile all the time massaging balls and tickling earlobes
I get that with fuck buddies, the girl next door and random chicks from the pub or nightclubs
What I don't feel from everyday life I get from jerking on a chick getting double pounded repetitively by a mobster of raging dicks taking turns on her pussy and asshole until she shits cum from her prolapsed holes and swallow the loads

[jimkkbogot]

I am late to the party to respond to this statement. I will keep is to a few words. When mister Grandi says fiction he means fiction literally. There will come a day when he will point to that post and say I told the world it was fiction. Star wars is fiction, every single detail is made up, That is the kind of fiction he speaks of. Every back story every aspect of it is made up 100%, so called sisters are not sisters. Dont think he means the pizza guy is not actually a pizza guy, or first anal is actually first first anything is total bullshit 99.7 % of the time. He means EVERYTHING is made up, manipulated, created . I have been saying Lina Luxa is not French because she not, and shes not 5,11" closer to 5'4" and she not anywhere near as young as her bio states..closer to 35 than 25, You couldnt meet her in person if your life depended on it... Is it real piss i dont know and unless you have seen it smelt it and been there watching it live I wouldn't believe it. There a better chance that the piss is real than there is a models bio is real... Sure there is men fucking woman, but she (they) are not who you think they are. Check out the nose on July Sun, not a chance in hell she has a nose like that. A couple mouse clicks is all it takes to fix that,, Big noses and bad teeth (unless intentional, L.L..J.S) have been as fixable as red-eyes for 20 years. Enjoy the fiction but debating the characteristics of the models is no different than debating whether Fred Flinstone is a better motorcycle driver than Barney Rubble..

[zeusanalfreak299]

This questions sounds like from a small child who is asking his/her dad.

Lol


Porn is showbiz, art, passion, work, hobby, inspiration and addiction.

[isis666xxx]

porn is a bunch of people doing sex and recording it on camera

theres no room for fiction

you think when a girl gets fucked in the ass in a porn video is not real?

she receives sperm in her mouth from a lot of guys and is not real?

porn is simply people doing sex and recording it

is as real as real life

[Paizal]

porn is simply people doing sex and recording it

is as real as real life

However, it is not to be compared with private sex.

There have been many documentaries and statements from girls that because of all the position changes and interruptions, there is no rhythm, no flow at all. It is a pure execution of the script. Which then leads to the fake emotions of the girls.
Finally, there's the camera magic that makes all that TAP bullshit look real, even though there's no penetration at all. Greg Landsky was a master at using camera magic to fake pentrations even though the male actor has no erection.

Porn is staged in the sense that we're supposed to believe these are people on set all having incredible fun and great, sensual sex. But in the end it's just a girl who actually just wants to go home after 5 minutes because she's not in the mood for juiced up guys or boring robot sex with hundreds of interruptions.

[House MD]

Giorgio Grandi says porn is fiction, is that right?

What do you expect from the Master of fake porn
There's not even sex in his videos but pee drinking, cake eating, cream whipping and clothe dripping
He is making History as the world's worst porn director ever

[jjwhite1985]

I don't think anyone is saying that the actual sex acts themselves aren't happening; just that a porn scene doesn't represent reality. Nobody has sex this way in real life, they're actors doing a job, getting paid and going home. Some people, probably because it turns them on, like to convince themselves that it's actually the girls trying to live out their sexual fantasies, and they'd be doing the same thing off camera if they could, which is obviously complete nonsense. They do it for the same reason we all do our jobs - to make bank. This isn't to say that many of them don't enjoy their jobs, but it's just that, a job. If you weren't already aware of this then a quick look of some of the endless BTS spam that gets posted nowadays should help clear things up.

[isis666xxx]

people dont do what you see in these porn videos simply because of the risk of getting stds

if stds wouldnt exist people would be much more sexual and do orgies frequently

a big percentage of people would do orgies frequently or very frequently if sexual diseases wouldnt exist

[jjwhite1985]

people dont do what you see in these porn videos simply because of the risk of getting stds

That is absolutely not correct lol. People don't do what you see in these porn videos because they are a fantasy and not real life

[YuriyProneBone]

Nobody has sex this way in real life, they're actors doing a job, getting paid and going home.

My 1 on 1s, look similar to those of Mr. Anderson and Nick Rock, lots of standing positions, and prone bone, plus doggy, and yes missionary too, but if you are not enjoying sex this way you are definitely missing out. I even have a couple of sets of straps like these:



I have been having sex like this since my early 20s. It is true that in my teens I wasn't that much of a leader in bed, but once I hit my 20s I definitely became like this when it comes to sex with the idea that if I don't do it someone else is going to do it after me, so I rather do it myself.

So I disagree that people don't have sex like in porn, some of us are actually very dominant in bed, and we like it that way, facials are a staple, and creampies as well, at least on those long term relationships we found ourselves in from tie to time. The only main difference is that it is mostly vaginal sex, considering anal is rough to convince girls to do.

That said, I do agree with you, and everyone that says porn is fantasy because they are roleplaying, so it is 100% fantasy.

For some reason there are two types of people in the world. Very stupid people who think roleplaying is reality, and those who understand roleplaying is like a game, part of the fantasy world, of the creative imagination, and it is not something to take seriously or worry about.

For example you can roleplay that a 25 years old is a high schooler dressed with a school uniform and that one day she gets brutally raped by a gang of black men on her way back from school. The girl can cry in the scene, act like she doesn't want to get fucked because she is a virgin, and the guys don't care, they actually like it, and they fuck her harder as a consequence, leaving her asshole gaping with semen, and her face too.

That is very different than happening for real. That happening for real means she will be traumatized for life, and those guys are going to jail. Those are two very different worlds. But some people are very stupid and cannot understand a basic concept like this even if they are adults. So I would suggest to ignore them because they likely have other mental problems themselves, probably from trauma, and there is no much you can do about them understanding.

[petermc934]

He’s just saying porn is fantasy, it’s not supposed to be instructional or reflect real life events. Girls don’t walk into a bar in real life and let a bunch of complete strangers double assfuck them in the bar and piss down their throats. That’s not real life, it’s fantasy.