What happened to this once GREAT website?

[AussieRose]

whats happened? I surely can't be the only one who thinks this way? Legalporno/Anal vids has fallen so far from where it was 2-3 years ago. It's litteraly a shadow of its former self. Sad times sad times for sure.

[Angel Eyes]

It's a husk, lifeless shell of its former glory. A zombie shambling aimlessly around in search of an identity.

The dilution of content by offering more makes it difficulty to navigate. 12+ scenes in a day? I'm not spending that much time on this site to wade through 99% crap to find the 1% of decent material.

And scene ticket prices are doubling what they used to be. I just joined again after a long lapse for 3 months. 48 tickets will get me just 4-5 scenes. I refuse to recharge tickets at a higher cost per ticket than monthly membership allotment (upside down economics there on AV's part). Maybe an economist could show supply & demand, price inelasticity charts to make a case for it, but it's beyond my minor in economics to figure out.

I'm at the point where I really don't care. I'll get my 4-5 carefully chosen scenes a month for 3 months, but that's it. AV is actually giving me back time I used to spend buying/watching 8-10 scenes monthly. I'm actually losing interest in porn.

[Eloise]

The postings number 7 and 8 in another thread say it all:

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=34039

[OKCTwister]

Legalporno pioneered outstanding 7on1 / 10on1 rough solo gangbangs with galore of DPs & DAPs and swallowing
Today, Analvids reached a point where an average video contains more peeing, pee drinking beer festival in shot glass holders, milk drinking, basin play, cage play, toy play, fisting, fake squirting than real actual pussy-cock fucking/sodomy... and don't get me started on the slow-paced 0% pussy shagging
It's a prolific medley of garbage porn and annoying erotic videos
I mean who the heck vouch for these nonsensical ideas to engineer the destruction of what used to be a gold making business model

[johndoll333001]

Classic old school 2 on 1, 3 on 1, 4 on 1 with well known girls of the industry would be hot. No piss, no rimming. Just old fashioned porn with alot of fucking and alot of cum involved.

[johndoll333001]

Meaning that would be great to see with the post above (couldn't edit it anymore)

[Caveman39]

whats happened? I surely can't be the only one who thinks this way? Legalporno/Anal vids has fallen so far from where it was 2-3 years ago. It's litteraly a shadow of its former self. Sad times sad times for sure.

This post is USELESS if you don't even explain what the fuck you deem great and what not (any longer). Besides, one man's treasure is another man's rubbish. Of your 10 posts, half are about you wanting more shemales. Well, I'd open a topic like this one, saying what you said, if people would listen to you on how to make this web-site "great" again....

[scarletxxx666]

is still great

tons of pessimist people saying bs

[scarletxxx666]

whats happened? I surely can't be the only one who thinks this way? Legalporno/Anal vids has fallen so far from where it was 2-3 years ago. It's litteraly a shadow of its former self. Sad times sad times for sure.

This post is USELESS if you don't even explain what the fuck you deem great and what not (any longer). Besides, one man's treasure is another man's rubbish. Of your 10 posts, half are about you wanting more shemales. Well, I'd open a topic like this one, saying what you said, if people would listen to you on how to make this web-site "great" again....

and what about you????

you disrespect giorgio grandi & his store in another thread

[2017sucks]

Really simple. Happened that the people who make scenes, started hating porn so much, became lazy and thinking just and only on money, all the time.

[drevokocur66]

Really simple. Happened that the people who make scenes, started hating porn so much, became lazy and thinking just and only on money, all the time.

+1, no passion.

[Eloise]

Some of us predicted this a while back and were laughed at.
Let's do this same thing in let's say 2022 or so.

[Wildfire1212]

I totally agree. Almost everything on this site is unwatchable nowadays. Piss, squirt, prolapses, tatoos seems to be the only thing. But I guess it sells if it they continue to shoot it?

And when was the last time they shot a new model that was hot? Always some pale skinny girl from eastern Europe that doesnt want be there…

Gonzo scenes with Kristy Black is the only thing that keeps my checking this site for new stuff…

And please replace some guys. Many of them is getting old, fat and is far from the performer they where in their prime.

[2017sucks]

It's all about cycles - investment-earn-ivestment-earn-earn-earn-earn.....

Current look of AV is the result of Mr xxx bought many sites and practically got monopoly in europorn industry. From the business side, he maded excellent moves and after all why he would care if some random guy (s) on AV forum or anywhere else not happy with scenes quality...

The goal is simply what always was, in any job... get a maximum possible earn, with minimum possible investment. Of course, as I said, in this case with high starting investments. So, now when he is the owner of so many sites, quality of scenes totally unimportant anymore. And Giorgio, as his most loyal soldier is the best in that strategy. Will make 2 epic scenes per month and the rest gonna be average or bad stuff, with average girls. They count on addicted people without any criteria who will take all or most of the stuff, in constant expectation of something really good. And they will throw that bone 2 times per month, then ride on it, it's simple. When LP started, golden days of europorn was 5-6 years behind us, with lot of USA producers coming to Prague and Budapest and shooting the best hardcore, gangbang porn. And all that gone, so the market was empty with gangbang genre. xxx maded LP, brought Giorgio and as smart people they saw what will bring them money. And after many years of hard work and epic stuff, xxx became strong enough to get a monopoly. Game over, now time to enjoy. Because "hey, you know what... if 2 good scenes per month on AV not enough to you, it's still better than "xyz" site with 2 per year... and that "xyz" is also my, so I don't care at all about quality".

And only possible way to force them to make epic stuff again (constantly) is to get a new, fresh competitor, ready to make what LP was making long time ago.

[azuniga992]

what they have to do is revitalize the Gonzo studio. how to forget the debut of Mina, Ría Sun, Rebecca Volpeti, Cindy Shinne, Suzan Ayn, Linda Sweet, they all entered the old LP for Gonzo and it was incredible to see their advances, one by one, dp, foursome (2 girls 2 boys), gang Bang, and then to Gio's studio, where the aberrations of porn come out. I still don't dislike seeing Mina and Cindy Shinne, because they are one of my favorites. But as they started, I would like them to do it with other 18-year-old girls. GIO grabs a girl and visually exploits her to make her look nasty. but I also understand that porn is also for that kind of degenerate

[pomegrante]

Mostly been buying old scenes recently, the most recent Oral Apocalipse with Selvaggia from 2017, 4tkts , now would probably be 8 or over. Had to go into the 130's BS list before I found a scene I have bought this month. Bought more new Yummy scenes than any other studio these last few months.

[pomegrante]

[quote="pomegrante"]Mostly been buying old scenes recently, the most recent Oral Apocalipse with Selvaggia from 2017, 4tkts , now would probably be 8 or over. Had to go into the 130's BS list before I found a scene I have bought this month. Bought more new Yummy scenes than any other studio these last few months.

Correction, Polly Petrova & Natasha Rios made the list at number 69, still pretty low.

[scarletxxx666]

i think is as great as always

[jerrybb]

Amazing at the moment and continued porn boundary progression like no other porn site.

[scarletxxx666]

Amazing at the moment and continued porn boundary progression like no other porn site.

yea

[2017sucks]

"Porn is a fiction" - Giorgio Grandi

"I'm not a whore, just playing one on TV" - White Trash Whore DVDs front cover note.

Totally agree with both and don't want to watch stupid 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 shit, from a guy who was bringing girls for porn debut with 5 on 1 DAP. Want just the good old 5-10 on 1, TPs, massive swallows... the best fiction, with the best "whores". Only problem is that he actually slapped by reality, who killed a fiction.

[Pineapples Studio]

What the fuck does that mean?

[2017sucks]

What the fuck does that mean?

For example this... viewtopic.php?p=495937#p495937 and this viewtopic.php?p=507985#p507985

SZ and GIO (in the past SOS, RS as well) are those who keep LP-AV in the game. All other studios are small and not strong enough.

And Giorgio is the main reason why this network went downhill. We all know since the 1st day that he's independent from xxx. Businessman in him, killed a porn fan-actor-director inside him.

And most of the people here shocked all the time, why I'm keep asking for a "real whiskey in liquid store". Not asking for it at the kids food store.

Fall in love with this network long time ago because of constant, wild gangbang action and they are now shocked when pissed off and asking for back to basics, because no 10 on 1 GIO or Waka Waka 5 on 1, like he's a true priest, never shoot any of those and living without a sin, shooting babies cartoons in free time.

[Pineapples Studio]

I don’t get it, man. You’re criticizing Giorgio’s output pretty heavily and even blaming him for the site’s supposed downturn, but he’s the only guy who ever shot the types of scenes you want to watch with any regularity. Gonzo introduced the “8 it all” type scenes I think you are describing, and they still make those today (albeit on a less frequent schedule), but they were never the dominant style of scene produced for this site.

SOS/RS never shot content like this at all. I don’t remember a scene with more than four guys over there.

Here’s the problem. LP has been around for a while now. The precursor to LP (content-wise) was Evilutionplex and Sineplex, and they were around for a very long time before LP even existed. So when people say they want a return to “the glory days” of LP, they have to give a timeframe for what they consider as “the glory days”, or else it has very little meaning. For example, the 10 on 1 gangbang scenes you’re describing are a pretty recent idea here and were not produced in LP’s early days. Trust me, I was there. In fact, 3 on 1 is about as crazy as it got back then for one-girl scenes. You complain about 1 on 2 (MFF) and 2 on 2 (MMFF) scenes as well, but both of those varieties were very common in the early days. In fact, it felt like they were most of what Sineplex shot.

Just… look… you need to define in very clear terms what you are expecting from this site.

[Pineapples Studio]

I should also say that I am not disagreeing with the question posed by this thread. I think the problem is industry-wide and not specific to this site, and probably has more to do with the need to compete with platforms like [spam] which have eaten into the overall revenues earned through this industry’s traditional business model.

It’s a complex discussion and I think many of you are reducing it down to an overly-simplified witch hunt against specific people. You don’t have to like Giorgio or his content, but I can’t see how anyone could hold him responsible for changes on a site he doesn’t actually own.

This is not a topic I am able to discuss openly in my position, but I think that the most proactive things you can do as customers are to:

1) always vote with your wallet

2) be very clear about the period of time you considered to be “the glory days” and give specific reasons for why you think so

3) engage with the community here and have actual discussions with each other instead of just shouting your likes and dislikes into the void - trust me, nobody reads that stuff, and constructive criticism is the only thing that will make any sort of impact in a forum environment

[Giorgio Grandi]

What the fuck does that mean?

For example this... viewtopic.php?p=495937#p495937 and this viewtopic.php?p=507985#p507985

SZ and GIO (in the past SOS, RS as well) are those who keep LP-AV in the game. All other studios are small and not strong enough.

And Giorgio is the main reason why this network went downhill. We all know since the 1st day that he's independent from xxx. Businessman in him, killed a porn fan-actor-director inside him.

And most of the people here shocked all the time, why I'm keep asking for a "real whiskey in liquid store". Not asking for it at the kids food store.

Fall in love with this network long time ago because of constant, wild gangbang action and they are now shocked when pissed off and asking for back to basics, because no 10 on 1 GIO or Waka Waka 5 on 1, like he's a true priest, never shoot any of those and living without a sin, shooting babies cartoons in free time.

There are several problematics connected to recruiting of girls, I already spoke about.
The next problematic is borders limitation, we are getting ppl from USA after 18 months of stop
Border to Russia are still closed
Even with that, we made it work better than before.

There is no point to shoot a gangbang as first scene, because softer scenes can now sell well. It is in the interest of model and website to exploit the model step by step. Also in your interested, you are not forced to buy a scene with 2 boys and, starting with softer scenes, we are going to bring more girls to gangbangs.
It take time

There are no golden days about the content, the content are technically better than never before.
If you are into young looking girls, the difference from the past, are the kind of girls we can shoot. When 10 years ago you offered $$ to shoot a gangbang to a very cute girls, now you need to offer $$$$ for a less cute girl, because the very cute one can make more money in different way with less afford.

We do not pay enough, this is the bottom line.
The guy of sineplex was right, average price for a scene should be 7-10 usd/scene to keep the quality of the girls up on long term. I did not understand it 15 years ago, but it was wise.

But still, it is pointless to exploit a girl too fast, because of 2 reason:
- the money offered to the girl will be too less (in total) to convince her to shoot
- it is not right to shoot a 4on1 if before you can sell 1on1 and 2on1
There are also other reason that are less important, but overall, this is it.

"And most of the people here shocked all the time, why I'm keep asking for a "real whiskey in liquid store"."
There is not only you to please, and we dont need to please only who is already a member, we need to attract other members. This bring to provide to the models more different scenes and more will arrive to gangbang. In your words, not everyone like whiskey, so we sell also Martini, Vodka and so on... so maybe someone will also buy whiskey.

P.S.: I release what I believe it sells, I would be stupid to release something that doesnt make sales and I will be an idiot to release content that do not make money. If I do not release as much gangbang as you wish, I do it for a reason that makes sense, I do not do it because I do not want to make sales.

[Pineapples Studio]

The only thing I will say is that sales data can be interpreted in many ways. It’s not as objective as most people think it is. Just because one person (Giorgio, in this case) interprets sales data a certain way does not mean that is the only way the data can be interpreted. There are many factors to consider.

As a hypothetical example, if you run a network which has released interracial “BBC” scenes traditionally, but you decide to start shooting scenes with white male performers, those scenes are probably not going to sell because you are targeting the wrong audience. You must either find a different place to sell them or find some way to change the demographics of your audience, but it doesn’t mean that scenes with white male performers cannot sell; it only means that they are not supported by the current state of your network.

There is a case to be made that the customer base on PornBox skews more heavily toward certain types of scenes than others, and that this wasn’t always the case. It doesn’t mean that other scenes can never sell here. It just means that the customer base needs to change for them to achieve this.

I have been up-front that I don’t believe the strategy of “escalation” works, and I’m not talking about taking models step-by-step, I’m talking about the gradual escalation of content output toward more and more narrowly-focused fetishistic content. That doesn’t promote the health of the network or the customer base long-term. I don’t agree with the mindset that it is the best (or only) direction for the growth of the site. You just end up with a fragmented audience and the perception that only a minority of the content here appeals to any given user. There are ways to pursue a “general clip store” model without fostering that perception, by giving studios more options to differentiate themselves within the storefront UI. But what the fuck do I know?

[avanfurwet]

I think Giorgio and Ananas have made good posts explaining more about the industry. Thanks for that.

Of course sales data can be interpreted, by people with knowledge and experience, and who actually have some sales data to interpret.

We fans typically have no knowledge or experience of the market, and for sure we have no sales data.

IMO the problem is frustrated fans who post here crying because they can't always get exactly whatever they individually want, so they claim that the sky is falling and the world has gone to shit. These fans typically each represent some random minority market segment. Producers trying to maximise their profits don't make content with the aim of pleasing every possible market niche. Can't please all the people all the time.

Often it's the same posters complaining month after month, even year after year, about their pet peeves. Yet still they're hanging around, complaining about how they don't find enough to satisfy them, but never actually moving on. Someone might wonder why are they still here? Maybe it's not really as bad as they claim?

[mr mystica]

"What happened to this once GREAT website?"

Same thing that happened to Disney. It owns too much. Not enough control or integrity AND when fever companies own more and more, there will be fever and fever people on top of the pyramid. And the fever people in charge, the more drowned everything will be and the more one dimentioned it will be presented.
It would benefit the costumer (the aware costumer that is) to spread all the content on to different websites who specialized on each different style instead of havind one big soup with too much content and with too much repetative trends.

[Pineapples Studio]

I disagree. The number of studios on PornBox is irrelevant. It’s all about how content is presented to the end user.

[Paizal]

AV/LP has become like Amazon for me. The first two pages contain only junk. In this case not from China, but it still looks cheap. The two main studios surpass each other in monotony and freak shows. I think it's an absolute pity what has become of this platform.

[Ageldhof]

Can we get back to making videos of attractive girls rather than freak show girls like Bali Baby with her lizard like tongue and mangled ears?

[avanfurwet]

I disagree. The number of studios on PornBox is irrelevant. It’s all about how content is presented to the end user.

Every individual is different. Some people like to be spoonfed. Maybe themed tours or landing pages could sell to them? The back-end content delivery engine would still be Pornbox.

People already have the possibility to make their own personal themed landing pages using the "Feed" tab to filter for only the studios, models and genres they want to see.

Personally I like the ability to see everything available in the buffet, and choose for myself. Mostly I consume familar fare which I know I like. Sometimes I try new things.

I think segmenting and theming the content could disadvantage newer smaller producers who would be arbitrarily pigeon-holed into somebody's idea of where they should fit, and achieve less visibility for their wares.

[avanfurwet]

Can we get back to making videos of attractive girls rather than freak show girls like Bali Baby with her lizard like tongue and mangled ears?

If enough fans enjoy Bali Baby and buy her scenes then probably they will see more of her here. Which is how it should be. No need to be spiteful about a model just because she's not to your personal taste.

[2017sucks]

AV/LP has become like Amazon for me. The first two pages contain only junk. In this case not from China, but it still looks cheap. The two main studios surpass each other in monotony and freak shows. I think it's an absolute pity what has become of this platform.

+100.

There is no point to shoot a gangbang as first scene, because softer scenes can now sell well. It is in the interest of model and website to exploit the model step by step. Also in your interested, you are not forced to buy a scene with 2 boys and, starting with softer scenes, we are going to bring more girls to gangbangs.
It take time

There are no golden days about the content, the content are technically better than never before.
If you are into young looking girls, the difference from the past, are the kind of girls we can shoot. When 10 years ago you offered $$ to shoot a gangbang to a very cute girls, now you need to offer $$$$ for a less cute girl, because the very cute one can make more money in different way with less afford.

We do not pay enough, this is the bottom line.
The guy of sineplex was right, average price for a scene should be 7-10 usd/scene to keep the quality of the girls up on long term. I did not understand it 15 years ago, but it was wise.

But still, it is pointless to exploit a girl too fast, because of 2 reason:
- the money offered to the girl will be too less (in total) to convince her to shoot
- it is not right to shoot a 4on1 if before you can sell 1on1 and 2on1
There are also other reason that are less important, but overall, this is it.

Yes, of course, thanks for practically confirming things I wrote. We all work our jobs for money, normal thing. But I want to say, are you really going to end in bankrupcy, if sometimes shoot same girl, for example 1on1, 2on1, 2on1, 2on2, 3on1, 6on1 8on1 10on1 2on1, 2on1, 3on2, 1on1, 3on1..... instead of 1on1, 2on1, 2on1, 2on2, 3on1, 5on1 2on1, 2on1, 3on2, 1on1, 3on1...


It's not about lack of gangbangs, it's about almost not having them at all. Except Venera Maxima, no any girl who can earn some money for you, with 5on 1 Waka Waka? And another thing, I remember that you wrote once, it's much easier for the girls to handle 5-10 on 1 than just 2 or 3on1. Because much less changing positions. Right? So, by your words they are practically gonna be physically pushed to the limits, with 6-7 scenes in a row, 2on1, 2on2, 3on2...

So, why not mix that with few gangbang scenes in "the middle" and rest them, make them able to shoot 15 more 2on1, 3on2 after that, if needed? Or, the best way is actually to kick them quickly and bring another girls, for the same formula? You became famous because of the best gangbangs on Earth, it was your trademark, can't denied that. At least, you was finally honest, thank you.

I'm just trying to open the eyes of people who still hopes for big, great things from you, like in the past and making threads here "big bukkakes, 10on1..." not gonna happen, better for you to organise if you want and finance other studios, even open a new one, if some of you have experience in shooting, acting...

[mr mystica]

I disagree. The number of studios on PornBox is irrelevant. It’s all about how content is presented to the end user.

Which i literally mentioned my self.

[avanfurwet]

A few days ago Giorgio posted a long message explaining his views on the business and the problems of getting enough quality new girls to shoot.

Could this simply be because of the ultra-aggressive nature of modern porn? It seems odd to me that someone like Giorgio would pretty much exclusively shoot manhandle type porn with throat-grabbing, face-slapping, arm-twisting etc. and then complain that there are not enough young girls wanting to venture into that porn world. The phrase "you reap what you sow" springs to mind. I could be wrong and there could be other reasons but I would suggest that if Giorgio wants to do the very best to attract new talent he should stop pandering to the whims of the noisy but probably relatively small porn viewer demographic that wants to see the girls getting roughed up as a default. Common sense tells you that this is going to limit the number of girls you can attract to your stable. Go back to making hardcore anal scenes with a more consensual vibe and without male anger/ego and you'll surely be able to attract more girls.

We fans each bring our own biases when we try to analyse anything to do with the porn market. Clearly you don't enjoy the domination fantasy genre. But that genre seems to be a popular porn staple so maybe a larger proportion of the market do want it? Anyway, not every scene is manhandle.

Shooting for Giorgio is hard work and the girls earn their money. But the manhandle etc. mostly looks to me like carefully staged acting, within limits of what the actors can tolerate. Like any stage or TV acting.

I'd guess the requirements to shoot hard anal and then double-anal real sex acts could be more scary and off-putting for newbie porn starlets. Performing comfortably in those scenes requires girls to train themselves in their own time long before they turn up on the day of the shoot. Maybe being asked to shoot wet content isn't attractive either to some/many girls. They have to balance the attractions of quick (but not easy) money working for Giorgio, compared with other sex work which could be lower paying but easier e.g. solo glamour shoots, or higher paying but riskier and maybe more unpleasant e.g. escorting.

Having said all that, I can understand why pretty starlets like Lottie Magne and Stefany Kyler might be attracted to shooting softer scenes for Vixen/Tushy in a glamorous sunlit seaside villa. The newer Vixen label seem to be outcompeting traditional producers like Private and DDF/Pornworld on their own turf. Seemingly Vixen have just one recipe which they reheat many times, and fans still love it.

The catch-22 as I see it is that although I and probably others would happily pay double today's prices to see our favourite starlets perform in fewer scenes which exactly met our tastes, everybody's taste is different. We don't even agree on high heels on or off or stockings yes or no. So the studios who invest many thousands of euros to make each scene can't charge double the price because not enough fans will be exactly satisfied with each scene to pay double. So the studios compromise and play safe with their investments, repeating recipes which they know to be profitable at current prices.

[TheVulture]

IMO the problem is frustrated fans who post here crying because they can't always get exactly whatever they individually want, so they claim that the sky is falling and the world has gone to shit. These fans typically each represent some random minority market segment. Producers trying to maximise their profits don't make content with the aim of pleasing every possible market niche. Can't please all the people all the time.

Often it's the same posters complaining month after month, even year after year, about their pet peeves. Yet still they're hanging around, complaining about how they don't find enough to satisfy them, but never actually moving on. Someone might wonder why are they still here? Maybe it's not really as bad as they claim?

Very good points. From my position here I won't pretend that I don't fall into the category of someone who is a constant critical supporter of LP but what frustrates me is that my "niche" (hard anal sex with an entirely consensual vibe, ie no throat-grabbing, face-slapping, arm-twisting or angry male hands generally etc. whatsoever) should really be the industry norm, as it was 15-20 years ago. What really is even "niche" about that? For sure there's no issue with surrounding that with more specific niche content (eg manhandle, piss etc.) but that isn't what happens here or anywhere else in modern porn. Basically every scene has "some" manhandle and it's just a question of how much I'm prepared to tolerate as someone who is totally repulsed by it. But I'm really fed up of constantly buying near perfect scenes that are then ruined by a section of throat-grabbing or whatever, which often appears to be just thrown in to tick boxes for other consumers or as a result of the studs developing lazy default instincts in a post-Rocco Siffredi industry. For me, I can't just ignore that section - even if it's very small - because it has ruined the fantasy. If a guy felt able/empowered/entitled enough to grab a girl's throat (for example) even just for a second then he did during the whole scene. Basically my patience is wearing thin with this and I'm starting to wonder if I'm not just wasting my money.

If I'm honest I'm not pleased that I've spent 6 years supporting (in a general sense) that kind of porn. I am at least discerning in what I buy and avoid the most obviously male dom scenes, whilst also in the main boycotting the guys whose styles I just find totally hateful and thus unwatchable (Godshack, Ferrero, Neeo & Brooklyn in particular). But your comment does strike a chord with me. As you say, for me to still be here (having left many, many times in that 6 year period) LP is for sure doing something right, namely making excellent hard anal content with amazing girls for a reasonable price. But I think I am at last losing the appetite to support this without the return of total satisfaction. I am getting very close to being "100% consensual and respectful hard anal porn or bust", the likely outcome of which is that I'll be left porn-less and will have to accept that. What certainly does stick in the craw here though is hearing people like Giorgio whinge about struggling to find new porn girls, whilst shooting scenes that are essentially designed to degrade and humiliate them at least to some degree. The constantly trotted out line of "they know what they're signing up to" is essentially coming back to bite him as this isn't about that but rather the girls who won't sign up. In sum it is really the worst kind of entitled bleating on Giorgio's part - like criticising turkeys for not voting for Christmas.

To sum up - this site hasn't really gone downhill, the entire porn industry has (over the last 10 years or so). It has largely become a playground for egotistical, entitled men to create passionless and angry content aimed mainly at misogynists. It has done so at the same time as taking anal porn to new heights of strength and endurance but mysteriously - and yet entirely out of choice - has sacrificed heat, chemistry and respect for the girls whilst doing so. You pays your money and takes your choice, it is what it is etc. Probably the most foolish thing any of us can do is to expect it to change course other than ramping up these worst elements in order to chase ever more niche consumers.

[TheVulture]

The catch-22 as I see it is that although I and probably others would happily pay double today's prices to see our favourite starlets perform in fewer scenes which exactly met our tastes, everybody's taste is different. We don't even agree on high heels on or off or stockings yes or no. So the studios who invest many thousands of euros to make each scene can't charge double the price because not enough fans will be exactly satisfied with each scene to pay double. So the studios compromise and play safe with their investments, repeating recipes which they know to be profitable at current prices.

I agree with that but why can't LP be more clear with its scenes, eg have "heels on" or "heels off"? And where I'm concerned trust me there are very few zero manhandle scenes. I started a thread where I highlighted a few but it was quite time consuming and no-one was hugely interested (perhaps a telling sign) so I pretty much abandoned it. But again, why not a zero (and I mean zero) manhandle label alongside manhandle scenes? Wouldn't that be a better idea than just trying to be all things to all people? Individual scenes are never going to satisfy everyone but within the realms of a site that produces as much content as LP it could easily have numerous different styles of scene that genuinely do look to cater to all. And then if certain of these styles stop selling of course they're within their rights to stop making them and if that meant my zero manhandle style being scrubbed then I would accept that as an adult. The problem is trying to be all things to all people. As well as starting to (slowly, I admit) alienate people like me it doesn't give them a read on why scenes might not sell. "Was that one too manhandle-y? Or not enough?" If it was neither specifically manhandle or non-manhandle and not labelled as such then they're not going to know. More specific labelling and being more strict within that would I think help LP, although I do doubt that certain of their male studs would be able to stick to a "no manhandle" remit. To them that would probably mean just a bit of grabbing and slapping. But that is LP's problem to fix if they want to get the genuine consumer read. Perhaps from their point of view they don't need it. I really don't know.

[avanfurwet]

I think the male performers simply act the way the director tells them to, or how they think the director wants them to. I don't think we can assume that our preferred type of scene should be the norm, just because we want it. The market dictates what scenes sell best. I don't think producers make scenes intending to appeal to everyone, but they have to try to appeal to a large enough cross-section of the market to guarantee a commercial return on their investment in each scene. They make what they think will sell.

I think most fans deal with similar frustrations, technically if not morally, because scenes which we think we might enjoy contain some things which don't fulfill our personal desires, be it costumes or actions or whatever. I guess if we really hate some parts of scenes then we can either consider using video editing software to remove those parts, or just not buy them and take our business elsewhere.

I think the porn industry has always been run by egotistical men, and if anything the last decade has seen a shift in the balance of power towards models and content creators, which has been driven by technology. The technical and financial barriers to entry to make and publish content have never been lower, but the best quality content is still mostly made by experienced producers.