What happened to this once GREAT website?

[Pineapples Studio]

I disagree. The number of studios on PornBox is irrelevant. It’s all about how content is presented to the end user.

Which i literally mentioned my self.

Your solution is incompatible with the existence of a “PornBox” platform altogether. I think you can have many different studios on one platform and do a better job of differentiating them within the storefront.

[Pineapples Studio]

Having said all that, I can understand why pretty starlets like Lottie Magne and Stefany Kyler might be attracted to shooting softer scenes for Vixen/Tushy in a glamorous sunlit seaside villa.

It’s called money. The models don’t care how soft or glamorous the settings are. They care about how much they can be paid for their time. Vixen/Tushy has cornered the market on the hottest new stars by signing them to obscenely expensive exclusivity contracts early in their careers and keeping them locked down for ages so that other studios don’t have access to them. The models don’t care because they’re getting a huge payday, but what they don’t realize is that they are missing out on the chance to build their profile and get more work later down the line. It’s instant gratification and a lot of money up-front which comes at the expense of their growth potential. Most agencies don’t give a fuck about their models and are not bothered by this arrangement because they’re getting a cut of that huge payday up-front.

[Pineapples Studio]

sorry, but all this apologizing and justifying for the sake of profit is bullshit.

I did read your entire post, but I didn’t want to quote the whole thing and take up space unnecessarily with another massive block of text. (Thanks for the shout-out, by the way.)

Porn as an industry exists for the sake of profit. You cannot separate money from your analysis of the industry because it makes no sense to do that. I understand and agree with your point about flooding the market with disposable, passionless crap, and I think it could even potentially cause an industry crash if we’re not careful, much like the video game crash of 1983. However, it’s not that simple. The cold, hard reality is that producers need to stay profitable to survive, yet we are operating within a highly oversaturated market plagued by rampant piracy. That environment pressures the industry to push toward more and more narrowly-focused content which can be sold to fans of particular fetishes, because the profit margins for that sector of the market are more stable and forgiving. Producers need to compete against each other as well, and when you have 2-3 high impact scenes per day from one producer, all focused on a particular fetish, and all published to the same platform, it can be difficult to compete for the customer’s dollar - or worse yet, for their attention. It’s hard enough to convince someone to buy your product, but if they don’t notice you at all amidst the noise, then you don’t even get a chance to do that. That’s not even getting into the continued pressure exerted on traditional porn studios by platforms like [spam] and the all-too-pervasive “simp” phenomenon, or the focus on SEO algorithms which force producers to produce scenes in a way that incorporates “keywords”, etc…

The environment is very competitive right now, due to the historic low barriers to entry mentioned earlier in the thread, and while you can hold your own opinions about the quality of content being produced today, and you can even rightly assert that the customer should not be expected to know or care about the reasons for the decline in that quality, you are getting a rare opportunity to understand why the industry is moving in this direction because you can participate on a forum like this and interact with the people who actually make this stuff. (And again, I agree with you about the existence of a decline. I’m just not sure how we’re going to get around it, as an industry, with an environment.)

It is NOT as simple as a sudden lack of creativity from the producers. I would submit that it is more accurate to say producers are afraid to break the mold now due to the highly competitive state of the industry. You can criticize specific producers all day long, and Giorgio is a prime target for that since he is the most prolific producer on the site right now, but I’m not going to jump into that game.

[Jocke]

Giorgio makes the best porn in the world. I just watched Natalie & Anna in total porn joy!

[Jocke]

I think Giorgio and Ananas have made good posts explaining more about the industry. Thanks for that.

Of course sales data can be interpreted, by people with knowledge and experience, and who actually have some sales data to interpret.

We fans typically have no knowledge or experience of the market, and for sure we have no sales data.

IMO the problem is frustrated fans who post here crying because they can't always get exactly whatever they individually want, so they claim that the sky is falling and the world has gone to shit. These fans typically each represent some random minority market segment. Producers trying to maximise their profits don't make content with the aim of pleasing every possible market niche. Can't please all the people all the time.

Often it's the same posters complaining month after month, even year after year, about their pet peeves. Yet still they're hanging around, complaining about how they don't find enough to satisfy them, but never actually moving on. Someone might wonder why are they still here? Maybe it's not really as bad as they claim?

THIS!

[magizi87]

Having said all that, I can understand why pretty starlets like Lottie Magne and Stefany Kyler might be attracted to shooting softer scenes for Vixen/Tushy in a glamorous sunlit seaside villa.

It’s called money. The models don’t care how soft or glamorous the settings are. They care about how much they can be paid for their time. Vixen/Tushy has cornered the market on the hottest new stars by signing them to obscenely expensive exclusivity contracts early in their careers and keeping them locked down for ages so that other studios don’t have access to them. The models don’t care because they’re getting a huge payday, but what they don’t realize is that they are missing out on the chance to build their profile and get more work later down the line. It’s instant gratification and a lot of money up-front which comes at the expense of their growth potential. Most agencies don’t give a fuck about their models and are not bothered by this arrangement because they’re getting a cut of that huge payday up-front.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...................

Why is this wrong?

Beautiful girls get money, fans get beautiful girls.....

Am I missing something?

Analvids finds a beautiful model and then she's gone in nanoseconds, lol

I'm I missing something?

I remember when I used to like 95% of the models that appeared on Legalporno.

AnalVids, not even 10%, I don't want to count, because it's rude but, eyeballing it is less than 5%

I'm being serious.

[Pineapples Studio]

Am I missing something?

Yes.

[avanfurwet]

My 2c.

Exclusivity Clauses:

Vixen Group shoot many, even mostly, established USA pornstars. I doubt they are all signing exclusivity clauses.
In Europe, rising stars like Lottie Magne and Stefany Kyler seem to be shooting for other sites and selling their own content too.
So I'm left wondering just who is being taken out of the game?


Attractive Models:

Pornbox sells a wide variety of models.
Vixen Group sell a single recipe, a mainstream look which is fine for those of us who enjoy it.
It's like comparing a big department store to a boutique.
The older, smaller "Legalporno" was more like a boutique.


Model Retention:

What does "gone in a nanosecond" mean?
How many genuinely new unknown models do Vixen Group introduce? How many do Pornbox affiliated producers introduce?
Isn't it entirely predictable that some/many of the genuine newbies on Pornbox will only make one or a few scenes and move on?

[Paizal]

Pornbox sells a wide variety of models.

Well, I don't see that variety at GONZO and GG. If you're not into super skinny girls, full body tattoos and weird haircuts, then the two main studios offer you very little. As far as pretty, cute, natural girls go, GG and GONZO are just a shadow of their former selves.

[avanfurwet]

Vixen's glamorous locations for shoots perhaps wouldn't turn young women's heads quite so much if the money was poor. But Vixen pay well, so what's not to like?

Having said that, DAP-A has posted about Erika Korti's struggles to keep girls signed to her fledgeling St Petersburg model agency when Julmodels come along dangling dreams of glamorous lifestyle shoots and show girls the Vixen websites.

And young women from crumbling conservative industrial areas in eastern europe and Russia do gravitate towards sunnier climes, and especially "party" locations like Black Sea and Mediterranean resorts, in search of a better life or just a summer job and some fun.

So IDK if these young women are really making a cold calculation about how many $/hr they are earning if they fly out to Ibiza to shoot for a few days. Maybe they could make more $/hr shooting grisly fetish content in a cold garage in their hometown? Or maybe they can do both if they want?

[Pineapples Studio]

Having said that, DAP-A has posted about Erika Korti's struggles to keep girls signed to her fledgeling St Petersburg model agency when Julmodels come along dangling dreams of glamorous lifestyle shoots and show girls the Vixen websites.

Yeah, no shit.

Even magizi87 was bitching about the lack of quality models on AnalVids, but somehow he missed the correlation between the rise of the Vixen/Tushy exclusivity machine and the difficulty in finding hot young models for anything else. It’s not like AnalVids forgot how to find great models overnight. It’s just harder now thanks to the current situation with the industry.

So again, magizi87, are you missing something? Hell yes, you are.

[avanfurwet]

Pornbox sells a wide variety of models.

Well, I don't see that variety at GONZO and GG. If you're not into super skinny girls, full body tattoos and weird haircuts, then the two main studios offer you very little. As far as pretty, cute, natural girls go, GG and GONZO are just a shadow of their former selves.

Giorgio has written about recruitment today compared with 5 or 10 years ago.

I think most of the girls who Giorgio and Sineplex shot "back in the day" were slim.

Girls these days just have more tattoos, outwith the producers' control.

Personally I like the recent arrivals from Colombia and Italy. And some pretty new girls are shooting in Russia and beginning to trickle through to Prague.

I think the producers generally are doing well with scouting new talent, but that's just me.

Others can have their own opinions. If they hate Pornbox so much then Vixen awaits, but they'll probably bitch about that as well.

[Paizal]

I think the producers generally are doing well with scouting new talent, but that's just me.

I was a huge GONZO/GG fan 2-3 years ago. Unfortunately, it has become quite a freak show for me, also concerning the girls. Sadly, there is no alternative to these studios.

[dap-addict]

Some excellent posts explaining all situation here, Mr. Ananas! Thanks!

Now let me focus first on one earlier post:

There is no point to shoot a gangbang as first scene, because softer scenes can now sell well. It is in the interest of model and website to exploit the model step by step. Also in your interested, you are not forced to buy a scene with 2 boys and, starting with softer scenes, we are going to bring more girls to gangbangs.
It take time

This is what I oppose most as user of GIO and also gonzo.
I think its the large influx of US customers since a few years who has killed Europorn ethics.
Its what I call the vanillisation of LP/AV core studios.
For me it means I have to wait longer from the point a girl pops up here to the point I can easily buy her scene. It usually happens at 4on1 DAPbreakin stage, but recently there is even a switch to 2on1 DAPbreakin's. Thus I guess it will become even slower for me. Because with lower investment scenes can still be sold in order to make decent profit. And only fetishization of users guarantee more demanding sex act scenes meanwhile.

I wrote buy easily because in the meantime users are compelled morally to support lighter step-by-step scenes to make more demanding scenes possible. Thus porn turned into a moral battle of support or denial, a new phase of complicity of producer and user.
Even me I bought some DP @ GIO I never actually watch.

[dap-addict]

Girls these days just have more tattoos, outwith the producers' control.

Personally I like the recent arrivals from Colombia and Italy. And some pretty new girls are shooting in Russia and beginning to trickle through to Prague.

I think the producers generally are doing well with scouting new talent, but that's just me.

If it was pre-pandemic times and all those Russian models would be able to flock in to Prague and go the GIO/gonzo stuff for us, (almost) nobody would complain.

To compare Tushy/Vixxen with LP/AV makes no sense, really.

And just generally from own experience girls dont care much what they perform on porn sets and where those sets are as long as money is fine. Most have some red lines, but they are gone pretty fast with most once they realize they can get a few 100$ more if they add this and that. They dont calculate hour rates at all. Most dont work and have plenty of time. Only later with more experience and more income sources some of them get picky.

[Wildfire1212]

I think the producers generally are doing well with scouting new talent, but that's just me.

I was a huge GONZO/GG fan 2-3 years ago. Unfortunately, it has become quite a freak show for me, also concerning the girls. Sadly, there is no alternative to these studios.

I agree. Its a freakshow now a days. For the last 2-3 weeks I have not seen a single scene I would like to buy.

[OKCTwister]

I know scores of Tushy DP scenes that are way better than LP

[lp_old_fan]

What the fuck does that mean?

For example this... viewtopic.php?p=495937#p495937 and this viewtopic.php?p=507985#p507985

SZ and GIO (in the past SOS, RS as well) are those who keep LP-AV in the game. All other studios are small and not strong enough.

And Giorgio is the main reason why this network went downhill. We all know since the 1st day that he's independent from xxx. Businessman in him, killed a porn fan-actor-director inside him.

And most of the people here shocked all the time, why I'm keep asking for a "real whiskey in liquid store". Not asking for it at the kids food store.

Fall in love with this network long time ago because of constant, wild gangbang action and they are now shocked when pissed off and asking for back to basics, because no 10 on 1 GIO or Waka Waka 5 on 1, like he's a true priest, never shoot any of those and living without a sin, shooting babies cartoons in free time.

There are several problematics connected to recruiting of girls, I already spoke about.
The next problematic is borders limitation, we are getting ppl from USA after 18 months of stop
Border to Russia are still closed
Even with that, we made it work better than before.

There is no point to shoot a gangbang as first scene, because softer scenes can now sell well. It is in the interest of model and website to exploit the model step by step. Also in your interested, you are not forced to buy a scene with 2 boys and, starting with softer scenes, we are going to bring more girls to gangbangs.
It take time

There are no golden days about the content, the content are technically better than never before.
If you are into young looking girls, the difference from the past, are the kind of girls we can shoot. When 10 years ago you offered $$ to shoot a gangbang to a very cute girls, now you need to offer $$$$ for a less cute girl, because the very cute one can make more money in different way with less afford.

We do not pay enough, this is the bottom line.
The guy of sineplex was right, average price for a scene should be 7-10 usd/scene to keep the quality of the girls up on long term. I did not understand it 15 years ago, but it was wise.

But still, it is pointless to exploit a girl too fast, because of 2 reason:
- the money offered to the girl will be too less (in total) to convince her to shoot
- it is not right to shoot a 4on1 if before you can sell 1on1 and 2on1
There are also other reason that are less important, but overall, this is it.

"And most of the people here shocked all the time, why I'm keep asking for a "real whiskey in liquid store"."
There is not only you to please, and we dont need to please only who is already a member, we need to attract other members. This bring to provide to the models more different scenes and more will arrive to gangbang. In your words, not everyone like whiskey, so we sell also Martini, Vodka and so on... so maybe someone will also buy whiskey.

P.S.: I release what I believe it sells, I would be stupid to release something that doesnt make sales and I will be an idiot to release content that do not make money. If I do not release as much gangbang as you wish, I do it for a reason that makes sense, I do not do it because I do not want to make sales.

The problem is not in the number of fuckers
It is interesting to watch 1on1 scene, but where there are chemistry and real good fuck
The actors have forgotten what it means to fuck the model, deep, beautiful anal fuck
they make 1-3 sec moves and stand like a wooden, they fear touch model
or incert cock head only in model and stand
no sense to pay for such content
You had beautiful fresh models Pinky Breeze, Alexa Flexy, and many more
But you lead them to a dap, piss and they go away

remember

[dap-addict]

You had beautiful fresh models Pinky Breeze, Alexa Flexy, and many more
But you lead them to a dap, piss and they go away

This lie repeated again and again doenst become true! Its a completely oversimplified view of matters leading girls to move to other studios after some time and/or to retire.

[Pineapples Studio]

remember

Okay, that could be a valid criticism, but even this comes down to direction. Wanna know how I know that? Because in the example you provided, I’m the one who gave it.

[2017sucks]

at 7:53 move to couch to "endure" 8 positions, each 1mn 38 seconds long

Point of the points! Somehow in 90% of cases when skiping across scene with mouse or forward buttons on TV, cocks are out, trying to go in, at more and more stupid positions. 5 mins solo playing, 5 mins kneels blowbang, 15 mins cg DP (DAP), 15 mins rcg DP (DAP), 5 mins standing DP (DAP), cumshots. Whats wrong with such formula, instead of million stupid positions and holes empty most of the time actually, like sam low quality football... More fouls and falsing fouls and being on ground, then playing.

Why girls need to have 20 mins solo in SZ scenes? We all know they have long prepare before the scene anyway. So, cut it to 5 and start action. Also, in my formula, lets say 6 on 1, in CG and RCG DP, DAP, "bottom guy" can be switched and rested on 5 mins. But action stops just on few seconds.

[lp_old_fan]

at 7:53 move to couch to "endure" 8 positions, each 1mn 38 seconds long

Point of the points! Somehow in 90% of cases when skiping across scene with mouse or forward buttons on TV, cocks are out, trying to go in, at more and more stupid positions. 5 mins solo playing, 5 mins kneels blowbang, 15 mins cg DP (DAP), 15 mins rcg DP (DAP), 5 mins standing DP (DAP), cumshots. Whats wrong with such formula, instead of million stupid positions and holes empty most of the time actually, like sam low quality football... More fouls and falsing fouls and being on ground, then playing.

Why girls need to have 20 mins solo in SZ scenes? We all know they have long prepare before the scene anyway. So, cut it to 5 and start action. Also, in my formula, lets say 6 on 1, in CG and RCG DP, DAP, "bottom guy" can be switched and rested on 5 mins. But action stops just on few seconds.

absolutly agree

[Pineapples Studio]

This is going to sound stupid to some of you, but why does there need to be a “formula”? Where has the creativity gone? I mean, sure, there are things that work which you should try to do in all of your scenes, but isn’t formulaic content the whole problem here?

Some of you here (not all of you, mind, but some of you) discuss porn with such a lack of passion. You’re part of the problem. You’re the reason shitty formulaic content gets produced because you’re the ones asking for it and buying it.

[Paizal]

You’re part of the problem. You’re the reason shitty formulaic content gets produced because you’re the ones asking for it and buying it.

Absolute agreement. In parts, there were the same scenes over and over and over again. There are hundreds of scenes of the same girls over and over and the LP/AV community sits in the basement like a braindead wanker robot screaming for more. More of the same. That especially GG publishes the same scene every day - how many Anna de Ville or Brittany Bardot scenes does a person need goddamn....it is basically our fault.

[2017sucks]

OK, agree... And really meant, "if there's a formula"... Why not such one I proposed with 90% of time real action actually, instead of 40%.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

This great website is still very good, and it shall continue. This forum poster implies that the quality of this site is going downhill...."ONCE GREAT WEBSITE". It still is pretty damned good! X

[Alaska_Killerz]

There are so much good old scenes. Even if they never relase a good new one, you have enough old scenes to fap.

[magizi87]

I miss scenes, where the actors were in control.

[Pineapples Studio]

In control of what, exactly? That’s actually close to what you have now with some of these studios.

[Pineapples Studio]

I want to start by saying that I appreciate your passion and the effort you put into giving constructive input rather than just bitching into the wind. Other posters on this site could stand to learn a thing or two from that sort of mentality. I was in your shoes once and I see you.

And now I have to tear you down, because some of the things you suggested simply aren’t feasible, or they’re not good ideas, and I want you to understand why that is.

where the actresses are allowed to control the flow and the action to some extent, eg, stacy bloom when she has been with anna deville anf Julia north. Especially with Anna D she ran the show. Neither Julia nor Anna will be the same after working with Stacy. It was not the typical GG porn by the numbers by a long shot. It shows what LP can be. Pair Stacy with Lola taylor on her return!!!

I haven’t seen the Stacy Bloom scenes you’re talking about, but I’ve seen others praise them here for the same reasons as you. And I agree that performers should be given more latitude to express themselves within the scenes. The mental aspect of porn is far stronger than most people realize; I believe that audiences want to see passion in the scenes. They want to feel the lust coming off the male talent, the emotions in their eyes of the girls, and the excitement of the cameraman as he reframes a shot to emphasize something he likes.

Great porn is analogous to a symphony and the director’s role is to play the orchestra. Part of doing it well is choosing performers who pair together well. There’s a bit of trial and error involved in that process, but the longer a studio has been around, the more intuitive it gets for them.

Where the personalities of the actresses are allowed to show through---you allowed it in your scenes with Francys Belle. Francys belle when shot by gg or sz is just a cardboard cutout that could be replaced by X, Y or Z

I don’t fully agree with that, but I do see your point. Francys has a fierce personality and a devious mind on-set. I think that comes through in all of her work to varying degrees.

I will add, do not let the male "talent" control the action. They are all pretty much driftwood in the sexual creativity dept. They are below even gg and sz.

Talent should never control the scene. It is the director’s role to do that. You can occupy both positions at once (as Rocco Siffredi does), but that’s pretty rare. Why? Because being a director involves a lot of other stuff both in front of and behind the camera. You’re playing the orchestra. Everyone under you is playing their part, but it’s up to you to find them and select the ones who do their jobs well. You’ve got to approve the wardrobe and HMU (hair & make-up). You’ve got to make sure the lights are satisfactory. You’ve got to come up with the concept of the scene and plot out the scenario for the actors. It’s much easier to shoot porn when there’s a “script” prepared ahead of time, and that’s exactly what we do, before every scene. It’s not a free-for-all. A lot of thought goes into all of these elements because they not only need to work well and gel together smoothly, but they need to be exciting enough to sell briskly and, hopefully, make a profit. The landscape is more competitive than ever, so that’s no easy task. Good enough can’t be good enough; you strive for greatness or you don’t last very long. That, to me, is the value of a director, and the reason why studio porn continues to offer an experience customers are interested in buying, even in the face of competition from [spam] and similar “new media” alternatives.

Male talent doesn’t control the scene. Their job is to control the girls according to the “script”.

there is still the ever-present problem of ONE FUCKING CAMERA, thus ONE POV, shot by "jitterbug" the cameraman. Someone get him to take his ritalin before the shoot. Or better yet, replace him with someone who knows how to shoot video.

There are MANY studios now that are shooting with accessory Go Pros or similar small hand held cameras and then in post simultaneous images are shown in split screen to great effect.
the concept of "post processing" is probably foreign to many of the "directors" at LP. They haven't learned about two cameras, or three.

This is a matter of opinion, but GoPro’s look cheap and don’t come close to the aesthetic of a proper 4K cinema rig. Split screen is cheesy and distracting. The eye wanders and doesn’t know where to focus. The benefit of having one POV is to provide a clear visual “narrative” (for lack of a better word) and maximum control over the angles in the final product. There’s a fair amount of subliminal messaging involved in camera work as well. If you want the audience to focus on something, you can achieve that with subtle framing changes.

Again, it’s a matter of opinion, but I don’t much care what other studios are doing and no self-respecting director should. Take inspiration from the work of others, if and when it strikes you, but don’t copy another person’s style and never, ever do what you think you’re “supposed” to be doing if it doesn’t speak to you.

And the best advice: shoot far fewer scenes of much longer duration within a video. Linger when you have a winner of a frame. And find someone who knows what a winner is, not the usual camera crew.

That’s bad advice. People have to eat, man. Fewer scenes of much longer duration would limit your profit potential. You’d be giving away value, which is stupid, and anyway, who’s got the stamina for a 3-hour porn binge? Is anyone really going to watch a 3-hour long scene uninterrupted? That sounds like porn tailor-made to be scrubbed through, and I’m sorry, but I have no interest in designing scenes to be skipped around. (That part about stamina goes for customers as well as performers. You really want these guys to go 4+ hours without stopping? Are you trying to kill them? Or alternatively, you want these shoots to last all day? The girls can’t eat before an anal scene, so they’d probably pass out!)

[Jocke]

Is anyone really going to watch a 3-hour long scene uninterrupted? That sounds like porn tailor-made to be scrubbed through, and I’m sorry, but I have no interest in designing scenes to be skipped around.

I only watch 10 minutes effectively on average. The very best scenes, maybe ten out of my 4563 scenes I watch from beginning to end.
I sometimes watch if there is a "story" or sequence of events that builds to a crescendo but most of the time I am looking for that perfect image with a smiling model doing the nasty.

40 minutes is good. It could be 20 minutes if it was perfect but I fear that the best bits would be edited out. I saw one scene were a beautiful model reached back, spread her cheeks and the camera guy turned the other direction, wtf!

Latest Natasha teen solo part could in my opinion continue forever!

[Pineapples Studio]

Anything longer than an hour is self-indulgent unless it’s some kind of massive gangbang with >10 people. That’s a lesson I learned the hard way. Some of those old Sinemexico scenes are way too long, IMO.

[magizi87]

In control of what, exactly? That’s actually close to what you have now with some of these studios.

When I watch the trailers I don't see anybody do anything fun.

If these guys have creative control, I don't know what to tell you, they simply are not good...

Somebody show me a trailer where the actors are even smiling, lol

show me signs of life, as if they, I dunno, enjoy having sex? maybe?

5190.gif (11.01 MiB) Viewed 7440 times

5153.gif (7.75 MiB) Viewed 7440 times

4750B_SZ587.gif (27.5 MiB) Viewed 7440 times

2106T.gif (9.53 MiB) Viewed 7440 times

My definition of porn requires actors to be having fun, what you know.

Those these images help you understand what I mean?

[xxxVIPERxxx]

In control of what, exactly? That’s actually close to what you have now with some of these studios.

When I watch the trailers I don't see anybody do anything fun.

If these guys have creative control, I don't know what to tell you, they simply are not good...

Somebody show me a trailer where the actors are even smiling, lol

Screenshot 2021-08-15 192600.jpg

show me signs of life, as if they, I dunno, enjoy having sex? maybe?

5190.gif

5153.gif

4750B_SZ587.gif

2106T.gif

My definition of porn requires actors to be having fun, what you know.

Screenshot 2021-08-15 193951.jpg

Screenshot 2021-08-15 194107.jpg

Those these images help you understand what I mean?

Who is the blonde babe in the 2nd and 3rd GIF image?

[Pineapples Studio]

Karina Grand

[Pineapples Studio]

@ Mr Ananas
First, appreciate your input...you are the only director to actually do so on a regular basis and who engages politely with members. Pardon the list,

I started here and I’ve been in your shoes before. I’ll always remember that.

2nd When I say shoot fewer scenes of longer duration I mean that within the same video, not as you took from my comment. Put another way...Gonzo often advertised that Jane Doe "endures 8 DAP positions." I am saying that of those 8 some are certainly better than others, eye of the beholder, but I think YOU could tell which one(s) work better than others, quality over quantity.
TBC I am not advocating increasing the length of the video.

Actually, I’m not really sure what you mean then. Sorry, I’m probably missing something.

3rd You mention all the things the director does, but in truth, that stuff becomes standardized after a few shoots: the lighting, the sound, the arrangement of the set, the camera settings, so pretty much what he is left with is the flow of the scene and the camera work. Today, even the scripts are cookie cutter and standardized. That standardization = boring and leads to thread like this one.

Exactly. You just explained why standardization is a problem. That’s why we need directors with innovative ideas who aren’t afraid to upend the tea table every now and then. Fuck the rules; they’re made to be broken.

4th Stacy Bloom leads, if not controls, the scene--- or seems to. Look at either the anna D or the Julia N scenes. To his credit GG gets out of the way. To her credit, Stacy knows what to do.

Yeah, I gotcha. She’s taking charge of the scene, maybe according to a script, maybe not, but either way it requires a director to recognize those qualities in her and cast her in that role. So kudos to Giorgio for making that call. It was a good one.

5th The camera work is terrible often focusing on one aspect of the action, when a wider shot, of longer duration, would capture it better. The total time of the video is unchanged.

This is subjective. You can’t please everyone. You can’t predict what everyone wants to see in any given moment. Trying to do so results in a watered-down meandering final product, in my opinion. Directors are there to lend their eyes to the audience. They are tasked with conveying the things they want you to see and focus on. Otherwise, why even bother calling them a director? They’d just be a camera operator.

6th Go Pros shoot 4k. And if a GoPros 4k is not as good as a canon so be it, it still works. A smartphone could substitute. Audiences are forgiving, esp if they see the smartphone being used. They are getting more for their money, more views.

I respect your opinion, but we’re just not going to agree on this.

7th Can cum shots be integrated into the action instead of ..."break" "Look for direction" "Kneel down alone in front of sofa" "Off camera guys step in and jerk off" IOW Fuck her and cum, maybe more than one guy at a time, but integrate it into the action rather than stopping the action and jerking off.

Try cumming on command every single day for weeks straight when part of your job description is not cumming for 2+ hours before that. It’s not easy. Some guys can do it, others can do it if the mood is right, and others still have difficulty popping at all without a break. That’s just the way it is. On top of that, the break gives the director a chance to tell the girls what to do when the cumshot is over. All breaks are an opportunity for the director to speak to the talent and give them specific instructions for the upcoming positions. “I want you to lean this way because it’s better for the camera,” or maybe “let’s try this idea with using the toy in the background while the other girl gets fucked in the foreground”, or even just “try to lean back further when you pull out so we can see the gape more clearly”. Remember, the cameraman in a gonzo porn scene is almost like another performer. His movements have to be in sync with the actors. He has to anticipate what they’re going to do and find a perfect angle within seconds. Breaks are a great opportunity to explain things that you just can’t get across in the middle of a complex scene. One-take scenes are (in my opinion) not as good as scenes with a few breaks for precisely this reason. It’s a bit of a free-for-all and things can get messy.

8th Split screen works. It's porn, not Stanley Kubrick. With split screen the "cause" and the "effect" can be seen simultaneously, ridding us of the camera that jumps from one body part to another, missing fully half the action. Not all the time, but during certain times like penetration.

“It’s porn, not Stanley Kubrick.”

At the risk of sounding pretentious, I see no reason to take a craft less than 100% seriously just because “it’s porn”. Good enough isn’t good enough - especially in today’s day and age. We must strive for greatness or else we quickly become lost in the soup. In my opinion, if directors care enough and take time enough to think about these things, on a very granular technical level, the audience should never have to. It should all just be invisible to you, like it “just works”.

And I think split screen just doesn’t work. It feels clinical and weird and takes you out of the action. There’s no passion to it. Camera movement in gonzo porn needs to be motivated, and using split screen at random intervals throughout a scene doesn’t feel motivated from where I’m sitting. The whole point of gonzo originally was to provide a visceral “you-are-there” feeling. Why are we stepping away from that now with discussion of things like tripods, split screen, etc?

Anyway, I don’t care who else does those things or how widespread they are in today’s industry. I don’t like them and that’s all that matters to me as a director. This is another one of those things we’re just not going to agree on.

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Karina Grand

Thank you!

[dap-addict]

Re my comment about fewer scenes in a video I mean fewer scene changes.
So, if a video is 56 mn long and contains 30 scene changes, keep the 56mn duration and bring down the scene changes to 15. Just an example, but that is the idea, ie, shooting fewer scene changes, choosing the ones that work and let them run longer, but NOT to increase the length of the video.

You mean sex position changes.
Good call indeed! While a basic set of positions is good indeed, some just usually never work really at least in Prague it seems. Thus longer takes (= more footage) in those positions studs and girl(s) can perform fine, wouldnt harm.

Generally I feel like there has to be a set of positions ofc, but what I start to get fed up with more and more is the repetition of always the same positions after each other.
Same goes with some smaller dick studs always fucking first.
Thomas Lee @ GIO is an example. He's actually a good fucker and very reliable, but I grew so fed up with him during last 2-3 years.

On the other hand copy-paste tick-the-box porn makes me already happy when time line of sex positions are or first fuckers are changed.

[Pineapples Studio]

I appreciate your thoughtful feedback.
Re my comment about fewer scenes in a video I mean fewer scene changes.
So, if a video is 56 mn long and contains 30 scene changes, keep the 56mn duration and bring down the scene changes to 15. Just an example, but that is the idea, ie, shooting fewer scene changes, choosing the ones that work and let them run longer, but NOT to increase the length of the video.

If for example a doggy shot is particularly hot to the director, and the camera has a good capture of it, let it run...do not feel the need to change, just for the sake of change.
My point is that not all posturings and angles work equally well; stick with the ones that are best captured to the eye of the director and let them be captured for a longer time, but not to increase the total time of the video.

Got it now. That’s a good point. I agree with that.

[beklof]

Really interesting discussion and debate especially between Mister Ananas and otto1219. Very knowledgeable and imaginative commentary from both. Personally, I don’t even try to get involved in this because my competence is not enough.

However, I dare say that I think Mister Ananas is right that a split picture does not work in porn. So I think it's a bad idea. Then again, I largely agree with otto1219 in that,that for example, dap videos play endlessly themselves and don't really see any kind of innovation. Always designing the same patterns and sequences and also too often actors in different positions are in such a short time that it just annoys the viewer. Indeed, LP / AV videos today come to mind mainly as conveyor belt production where each object is exactly a copy of each other. Add to this the ever-increasing pissing mania, so my own visits to the LP / AV site have clearly diminished.