Dominator wrote:To Bradpyth, there's truth to what you're saying, but you're kind of missing the point. It isn't about what they shoot, it's how they shoot it. I already said a few times, content-wise LP is putting out great stuff. I don't think you have to sacrifice creativity, originality and doing edgy stuff for good, consistent camera work. And The2ndBiggestPirate is right, in 2010-2011, tons of scenes were released with better camera work and no moments of prolonged blurriness. Perhaps some of the issues I spoke of are more a problem of directing and editing, but I stick to the fact that lately there are too many instances of sloppy camera work for any professional company with this kind of talent. It's not in every scene, but it's in quite a few.
Dominator wrote:I wanted to bring up this topic formally on the board because some users have been making comments about the camera work and how it can be improved.
First, for the moderators and the guys running the company, perhaps you guys can explain the exact process you use. Specifically, I would like to know if the guy operating the camera is the director, or if you have a separate person dedicated to the camera work. Also, how many different directors are currently shooting scenes for LP these days?
I ask these questions because I feel that the camera work is in need of much improvement. It is possibly the single major aspect of LP today this is not up to par. You guys have great models and performers, great action and the right emphasis as far as fetishes and niches are concerned. However, let's have an honest discussion about this. If you compare the LP camera work in general to other major Euro porn studios, such as 21Sextury, Evil Angel (though not Adriano, his shots are terrible), DDF, Dorcel, Private, etc., etc... these studios all have far superior camera work.
What needs to be improved? My most compelling thought is that there is an overall lack of direction and execution. I should know because I've purchased the majority of scenes that have been released in the last few months. Lately, there have been too many scenes where the penetration is being blocked by a performers head or their body. The performers are obstructing too many shots. It is the director's responsibility to prevent this from occurring. Also, the editor might want to cut out those segments where this occurred. This almost NEVER occurs in the clips from the studios I mentioned. A good example of this would be the latest Timea/Henessey scene where the angles and shots were subpar for everything after the initial Kreme segment. I felt that the scene started off amazingly, but then got much worse because of poor execution by the guys behind the camera. Also, in the 5 on 5 scene, after Mike cums in Blanche's asshole, the other girls licking it out were fully obstructing us from seeing what they were doing. All we saw was the back of their heads. In addition, the shots are often framed without any proper thought. You have ATOGM occurring where the girl sucking the dick is barely in the shot. You have shots where half the frame has NOTHING in it, just empty space, with the performers' bodies being cut off unnecessarily. Other times, the dude's body will be fully in the shot, but the woman's body is not. Needless to say, this is definitely not what the fans want to see. Another issue is that there seems to be prolonged periods where the picture goes blurry, and it often takes too long to refocus. This also never occurs with other studios, and honestly, should be cut from the scene because it is actually somewhat hard on your eyes when it happens like that. Lastly, as exemplified by the latest Nikita Belluci 3 on 1 scene, the camera man was SO SLOW to react to the action. I mean, his response time was just so sluggish, he missed important aspects of the scene. A good example of this was when she was being showered with piss and Mike tells her to tilt her head back and open her mouth so they could piss in it, but the camera man panned down to her body and totally missed an awesome shot.
So, my suggestions for improving this are:
-Get guys who are actually skilled with a video camera. Not everyone can do this well. Perhaps a reevaluation of your camera men is in order.
-Be more mindful of the fact that good porn is not just about good fucking. You guys have pretty much mastered this aspect. Your performers are mostly TOP notch and do a fantastic job fucking, generally speaking. However, more emphasis and thought should be put into set up and direction during the scene. I do enjoy that the material is not laden with cuts and edits, but sometimes you need to stop the action and make sure the shots are set up so that the scene capitalizes on the great action. No action should be blocked by a performer who is out of place. Likewise, the angles at which the performers are being presented to the camera is a crucial aspect of how enjoyable the scene is.
-Study how other major successful directors shoot their scenes and take note. Good examples to follow IMO would be Rocco, Jay Sin, Christoph Clark, and Buttman. They center the shots so that the right aspects are being focused on. It's not important to get the whole guy or guys in the shot. It is important, however, to get as much of the girls in it, and to make sure that you react quickly to the action so things are not missed.
-Just keep shooting. Leave the editing to the editors. There have been numerous examples of the camera guy switching focus to something else in the scene such as a different performer right in the middle of some super hot action. As a result, we miss out on some great stuff.
In conclusion, I have tried to not be overly critical, but something needs to be done to improve the camera work in general. I'm a big fan and loyal customer of LP, and that is why I would like to see things get better. I will say that I'm still very pleased overall with the material you guys are releasing. It's EASILY some of the best porn ever made. But I do believe that when the camera work is finally mastered, the material will hands down be the best in the industry.
Please share your thoughts and continue this discussion! Perhaps you disagree. That's fine, too.
PC_82 wrote:
editors are new and they are scared to leave blood or poo even if its small. they already fixed some scenes that are not continuous with the camera work. so they are going to try to use another effect instead of hard cuts. edits are messing up the flow for sure...
PC_82 wrote:can you screenshot some of the latest stuff your pissed about please so i can show them WTF
Bradpyth wrote:And it's not always possible to anticipate what people will do. OK they are directed, but sometimes you see the director/cameraman expects the girl to lick the ass, or directly tells her, and then she sucks the cock. If you're on close ups, you might loose it, even if you're jay sin yourself...
Dominator wrote:PC_82 wrote:can you screenshot some of the latest stuff your pissed about please so i can show them WTF
First off, let me restate that I am not pissed off about anything. And I'm certainly not pissed off about porn. I hope my post did not give that impression. I'm merely someone with enough viewing experience and access to enough material for a long enough time to know what is good, and what isn't so good. So, there is no anger and no demands are being made. I'm just offering my feedback and suggestions as a paying customer who feels that the set up, camera angles, and actual filming of the material could be better executed. It's as simple as that.
As for screenshots, it would be my pleasure.
Here are a couple from the 5 on 5. Clearly, the action is being obstructed by the performers. Proper direction will improve this.
From the Timea/Henessy Kreme scene... Timea's head and Tony's cock are out of the shot. Part of Henessy's lovely leg is cut out.
Another one from that scene.. Some seriously sloppy execution here. Their positions are all messed up. Timea's leg is obstructing her body and face, as well as part of Henessy's body.
From the most recent Triple Stacked with Sandra Luberc... Check out all of the empty space up top, and the penetration is cut off. Very sloppy.
Another one from that scene. Why is this shot in the final cut? It's nothing but empty space with zero stroke-worthy action.
Here is that missed opportunity to film two guys pissing in Nikita's wide-open mouth. Her head is back and her tongue is out, but we didn't get to see it properly. Just totally the wrong angle to take in this situation.
Those are the most recent examples I can think of right now. I will definitely admit that there are some scenes in which there are no issues with the camerawork or direction at all. However, in too many scenes these days, there is 1) lack of oversight and input by the director to position the performers properly to set up the shots, and 2) poor execution of the actual filming. Like I said, it's not something just anyone can do well. It takes some skill and experience to shoot porn, especially when it's a 2 on 2 (or more). That definitely poses challenges. However, if someone doesn't have the experience to know, for example, to film Nikita's open mouth while her head is tilted back from a higher angle so we can see the action, then that person probably shouldn't be doing this job. You guys are a professional studio and should have more professional camerawork.
Dominator wrote:Thanks for the responses, PC_82. It does seem that a lot of these issues could be improved with better editing. I think that in these "transitional" situations where the performers are repositioning themselves, unless they pull it off smoothly and start to fuck in the new position with the right camera angles, then these moments should be cut out. Of course, I think overall, it's better to have less cuts and let the action flow naturally. It's just some things, like heads blocking the action for more than a couple of seconds and wasted shots with excessive empty space, that should be cut.
PC_82 wrote:Dominator wrote:Thanks for the responses, PC_82. It does seem that a lot of these issues could be improved with better editing. I think that in these "transitional" situations where the performers are repositioning themselves, unless they pull it off smoothly and start to fuck in the new position with the right camera angles, then these moments should be cut out. Of course, I think overall, it's better to have less cuts and let the action flow naturally. It's just some things, like heads blocking the action for more than a couple of seconds and wasted shots with excessive empty space, that should be cut.
yeah editors now are going to:
take this stupid camera moments out that are not necessary
keep small spills nothing chunky but expected moments of anal positions nothing that is completely gross like a hamburger coming out
PC_82 wrote:take this stupid camera moments out that are not necessary
keep small spills nothing chunky but expected moments of anal positions nothing that is completely gross like a hamburger coming out
utopiaa wrote:Hope the editors wont go cut happy, what usually tends to happen in situations like these. Nothing is worse that scene too cut and some of the "BTS" stuff that has been left to scenes are pretty nice.
I really think most of the "bad" camera work is also because they seem to film with 2 cameras and try to keep each other out of the picture which sometimes results in weird camera angles, where neither of them is in optimal position.
evil-pineapples wrote:Come on, you know that's not true. There are obvious problems with the framing of certain shots and with the picture going out of focus for no good reason.
evil-pineapples wrote:First of all, why are you replying to a PM in a public thread?
Second of all, I am fully aware that you can't serve one thing to one guy all the time. That's not what I asked for in the PM at all and I have no idea why you're bringing it up here. The PM was about the problems with blurry and poorly-framed cinematography. There were literally three sentences about the fetish stuff. You completely missed the point.
Also, the timecode I mentioned does have some hard pounding with Linda Sweet out of frame, you can hear it in the audio and you can even see a little bit of it as the camera pans away from Katie Gold.
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