What is pornography really today?

[Iddaoeeok]

https://forum.pornbox.com/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=21777&p=247386&hilit=+ban#p247386

I didn't even look hard through your posts to find this. I'm sure I could find more if I actually tried.

Funny how you make political posts, attack other forum members relentlessly etc.

Why don't you lead by example and stop posting on this forum?

I asked you to name names and you haven't been able to do it. No surprise there.

I actually don't make political posts, what I sometimes do is reply to irritatingly stupid and self-indulgent political posts by other people because I really do hate it how some people are unable to post anything without dragging politics into it. I know that doesn't fit into this bizarre identikit strawman you've constructed of me but that is a FACT. You actually have no idea what my true political beliefs are because I don't go around shouting them from the rooftops. I post in other forums where political comments are not allowed and I absolutely think this forum would be better if there was no politics in it AT ALL.

[Iddaoeeok]

Interestingly, in the link you posted, bdsmpretty, a guy I often disagree with because I think he is one of the worst offenders for ramming his political viewpoints down people's throats, is the one who really attacks the right wing viewpoint. All I did was point out where the OP had got his facts wrong and definitions muddled.

[verts]

Interestingly, in the link you posted, bdsmpretty, a guy I often disagree with because I think he is one of the worst offenders for ramming his political viewpoints down people's throats, is the one who really attacks the right wing viewpoint. All I did was point out where the OP had got his facts wrong and definitions muddled.

BDSM is a consistent, principled leftist who can still hear other viewpoints. You talk him down because he makes you uncomfortable as a Zionist. You want to nest with the left when it suits you but don't want to live by the standards you set and expect for others. You are just a cheerleader for your tribe.

[Iddaoeeok]

I don't talk bdsmpretty down because of that, I have a problem with him because he does exactly what you accuse me of. He airs his political viewpoints at every opportunity, regardless of context, and has an extremely dismissive and superior attitude to anyone who dares disagree with him. In fact he doesn't even contemplate the notion that he might be wrong, he knows he's right and he's going to lecture you at great length until you accept his viewpoint. That and his posts are far too long. Apart from that he's fine! When he sticks to what the forum is supposedly about - porn. By the way, bdsmpretty is also very opposed to anti-Semitism of any kind, as Vagabundo soon found out.

Now I'm going to ask you a serious question - which I don't expect to get a serious answer to because I don't think it's within your psychological make up to do so - but I'll do it anyway. Why do have to make me Jewish? It seems like you need me to be Jewish or else your whole facade will crumble. By the way, in case anyone else is reading this rubbish, I am not Jewish! I don't know, there's something weird going on there, then I remember Vagabundo telling a story about he once got attacked in a hotel room by some unknown assailant and it seems to fit with this morbid debilitating paranoia and fear - I mean who better to be paranoid and fearful of than the Jews! But then you're not Vagabundo, are you?

[verts]

I don't talk bdsmpretty down because of that, I have a problem with him because he does exactly what you accuse me of. He airs his political viewpoints at every opportunity, regardless of context, and has an extremely dismissive and superior attitude to anyone who dares disagree with him. In fact he doesn't even contemplate the notion that he might be wrong, he knows he's right and he's going to lecture you at great length until you accept his viewpoint. That and his posts are far too long. Apart from that he's fine! When he sticks to what the forum is supposedly about - porn. By the way, bdsmpretty is also very opposed to anti-Semitism of any kind, as Vagabundo soon found out.

Now I'm going to ask you a serious question - which I don't expect to get a serious answer to because I don't think it's within your psychological make up to do so - but I'll do it anyway. Why do have to make me Jewish? It seems like you need me to be Jewish or else your whole facade will crumble. By the way, in case anyone else is reading this rubbish, I am not Jewish! I don't know, there's something weird going on there, then I remember Vagabundo telling a story about he once got attacked in a hotel room by some unknown assailant and it seems to fit with this morbid debilitating paranoia and fear - I mean who better to be paranoid and fearful of than the Jews! But then you're not Vagabundo, are you?

You're describing yourself...you are so tiresome.
I'm just going to ignore you until I see a change in behavior.

[netzerkaiser]

I read through this, & I thought it'd be cringe, (& my own tired, out-of-context 6 pints of Newcastle Brown interjections, would be too) but none of it was.

I think you both were excellent & dignified.

Verts, you show you know a lot about a lot, like the scandal in north east England over the abuse of girls in care, this surprised me. And you pulled interesting arguments out of the bag on a host of things, like plight of Armenia etc. But you gotta be careful. Russia that fought Turkey in WWI had in recent past conducted an horrendous genocide against the Circassians just above them geographically. No angels here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide

All in all you're not afraid to fight alone, & I respect you for that.

Idaooek, thanks for kind words, & yes, you certainly owe me no apologies. Verts - re: Idaoeek (where'd you get that bloody name!? I can never trip it right!) you should show him (Idaooek) respect for the way he never lost his cool, or indeed took personal slight against your onslaught. Indeed he showed humour & wit.

I can't help but feel you two might have somehow emerged respecting each other in some weird way!

Certainly I respect you both.

Highlight of my day was this guy. What is he? 21? When I was his age I was an insecure shambles

Guys a beast. Please let me have final word, for now at least.

Thanks!

[netzerkaiser]

@Idaooeek,

I might be prettier than you - maybe not?

Dunno... I just know I've piano exam next friday & I'm dreading it!

Fair play to you man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMZ4QQnQNU

[TheVulture]

Well obviously I've been saying this stuff for a long time so I agree with the thrust of what netzer is saying.

As with others, the trailers are hugely important to me. Pretty much the first sign of even 1 throat grab and I'm like "Next!" and moving on. Consequently I don't spend a hell of a lot on AV/LP these days - pretty much just my monthly subscription does me. That said, most of Giorgio's guys - and particularly the young white guys - are happily mostly manhandle-free and look to be enjoying themselves much more than the older guard and the likes of Dylan Brown in particular so I can find some scenes that I like. I picked off 4 just yesterday and am happy with them style and tone wise. I think all 4 would pretty much class as zero manhandle, which came across from the trailers.

The treatment of the girls is one thing and a very valid discussion but for me it's really all about what turns me on, which is essentially the happy/excited/lusty reactions of the girls when being fucked hard. Seeing them "doused" (as I call it) in any way by angry male hands is just a turn off to me so there isn't any purpose in me buying such a scene. There is also the fact that with porn I want to hold onto the thin veneer that I'm eavesdropping on real sex and when a guy's hand goes on a girl's throat or whatever that is instantly punctured. It's then very obviously staged porn. I know people will roll their eyes at that but it's valid. I obviously know that Tom Cruise isn't really a fighter pilot either but that doesn't mean I want to see clipboards or mic booms in the background. It's important to be able to suspend disbelief with porn just as much as with standard films. Tone and feel is everything to me. I only want very obviously consensual lust with absolutely no power structure or male ego.

I do think porn has lost a lot of its lusty mojo for numerous reasons in the last 10-15 years or so but all hope isn't lost and at its best the increased strength of current porn makes up for that. I'm certainly quite a fussy consumer these days though and necessarily so. I won't support angry and essentially joyless porn, regardless of how hot a girl is or how many positions there are etc.

I did do that "zero manhandle" thread quite a while ago and it pretty much died on its arse within a week. I think if that kind of thread were to receive wider support it might help influence the AV/LP directors and give support to the girls who seem to favour those kind of scenes. I do think most girls entering porn probably feel that they have to subject themselves to some of that stuff regardless of whether they like it or not - sort of a "goes with the territory" vibe - so some kind of public display against that attitude would be helpful. Without it I think a lot of porn directors will take the view that they need to include some manhandle in most or all of their scenes to maintain a broad audience, which for a long time I think has been the crux of the problem.

[netzerkaiser]

Well obviously I've been saying this stuff for a long time so I agree with the thrust of what netzer is saying.

As with others, the trailers are hugely important to me. Pretty much the first sign of even 1 throat grab and I'm like "Next!" and moving on. Consequently I don't spend a hell of a lot on AV/LP these days - pretty much just my monthly subscription does me. That said, most of Giorgio's guys - and particularly the young white guys - are happily mostly manhandle-free and look to be enjoying themselves much more than the older guard and the likes of Dylan Brown in particular so I can find some scenes that I like. I picked off 4 just yesterday and am happy with them style and tone wise. I think all 4 would pretty much class as zero manhandle, which came across from the trailers.

The treatment of the girls is one thing and a very valid discussion but for me it's really all about what turns me on, which is essentially the happy/excited/lusty reactions of the girls when being fucked hard. Seeing them "doused" (as I call it) in any way by angry male hands is just a turn off to me so there isn't any purpose in me buying such a scene. There is also the fact that with porn I want to hold onto the thin veneer that I'm eavesdropping on real sex and when a guy's hand goes on a girl's throat or whatever that is instantly punctured. It's then very obviously staged porn. I know people will roll their eyes at that but it's valid. I obviously know that Tom Cruise isn't really a fighter pilot either but that doesn't mean I want to see clipboards or mic booms in the background. It's important to be able to suspend disbelief with porn just as much as with standard films. Tone and feel is everything to me. I only want very obviously consensual lust with absolutely no power structure or male ego.

I do think porn has lost a lot of its lusty mojo for numerous reasons in the last 10-15 years or so but all hope isn't lost and at its best the increased strength of current porn makes up for that. I'm certainly quite a fussy consumer these days though and necessarily so. I won't support angry and essentially joyless porn, regardless of how hot a girl is or how many positions there are etc.

I did do that "zero manhandle" thread quite a while ago and it pretty much died on its arse within a week. I think if that kind of thread were to receive wider support it might help influence the AV/LP directors and give support to the girls who seem to favour those kind of scenes. I do think most girls entering porn probably feel that they have to subject themselves to some of that stuff regardless of whether they like it or not - sort of a "goes with the territory" vibe - so some kind of public display against that attitude would be helpful. Without it I think a lot of porn directors will take the view that they need to include some manhandle in most or all of their scenes to maintain a broad audience, which for a long time I think has been the crux of the problem.

Thanks Emilio. Believe it or not I watched footage of your partner in crime, Hugo Sanchez, yesterday. He was a darned good forward. But probably having two Mullers | Greaves | Linekers (even) in same team, as opposed to having a creative partner... upset that balance required for winning European Cup in late '80's?

[dap-addict]

it sounds like you put women on pedestals a little too much, and I would advise against it. They are not fragile little dolls, who need protecting, or goddesses that we should be down on our knees subserviant to, though I understand as a male where that biological protective feeling comes from

I think today's degrading porn fantasies are rooted in much stronger social, economical and political position of women compared to 50y ago when porn biz was born.

Still surprised this broader context isn't discussed here.

Btw, nice to have you back posting, Vulture!
Your input is dearly missed here!

[Ultra-Gape]

I think today's degrading porn fantasies are rooted in much stronger social, economical and political position of women compared to 50y ago when porn biz was born.

Still surprised this broader context isn't discussed here.

If you want a discussion you'd need people who buy porn for the reason you suggest to explain things from their perspective. I don't think this includes yourself? I'll copy below my own thoughts on the 'degrading' concept that I posted near the start of this thread. A lot of this comes down to definition and interpretation...

The concept of women being 'degraded' was also raised, which in many ways it's used I often find a little odd. Is it 'degrading' for an intelligent and capable man if a woman leads him to lust after her, to spend time exploring and pleasing her pussy with his tongue, and rhythmically rub his cock inside her pussy or ass? To me this is just a reflection of natural and healthy human behaviour and not something to somehow be viewed in a derogatory fashion. Similarly I don't view anything that a woman may do as part of a mutually pleasurable sexual relationship as 'degrading'. So long as porn reflects what some consenting adults will choose to do in their private lives I don't view it as 'degrading' to any involved either. I would include for example piss-play in this category, whether a man peeing on a woman or a woman on a man. What I don't though ever like to see in porn is behaviour that flat out looks like abuse to a woman that she is having to endure, and where this is viewed as 'degradation' that some will celebrate I feel decidedly uncomfortable.

[jonycash]

The models are really having fun, the new scenes will be less dramatic

[xxxVIPERxxx]

Selling an image of what most people wish they could do in their private lives.

[vvvv84335]

I don't talk bdsmpretty down because of that, I have a problem with him because he does exactly what you accuse me of. He airs his political viewpoints at every opportunity, regardless of context, and has an extremely dismissive and superior attitude to anyone who dares disagree with him. In fact he doesn't even contemplate the notion that he might be wrong, he knows he's right and he's going to lecture you at great length until you accept his viewpoint. That and his posts are far too long. Apart from that he's fine! When he sticks to what the forum is supposedly about - porn. By the way, bdsmpretty is also very opposed to anti-Semitism of any kind, as Vagabundo soon found out.

Now I'm going to ask you a serious question - which I don't expect to get a serious answer to because I don't think it's within your psychological make up to do so - but I'll do it anyway. Why do have to make me Jewish? It seems like you need me to be Jewish or else your whole facade will crumble. By the way, in case anyone else is reading this rubbish, I am not Jewish! I don't know, there's something weird going on there, then I remember Vagabundo telling a story about he once got attacked in a hotel room by some unknown assailant and it seems to fit with this morbid debilitating paranoia and fear - I mean who better to be paranoid and fearful of than the Jews! But then you're not Vagabundo, are you?

You'r right. it is vagabundo, just look at his posting history.