Alarming AVLP porn production slowdown - how to counter?

[dap-addict]

hyapet, since you know all so well, please explain me than why Lola Vivian gets 5 times less for her scenes than Rebel Rhyder?

[Giorgio Grandi]

hyapet, since you know all so well, please explain me than why Lola Vivian gets 5 times less for her scenes than Rebel Rhyder?

This is true when she worked in south america, here she gets less of course, but it is reasonable and justified.

look at this

this is the first DAP of Vivian Lola (in brazil)
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/748413
$8.7

this is the first DAP she shot for me
https://pornbox.com/application/watch-page/1003050
$14.25

Why is this difference in the price of the scene?
Because the production cost of her first DAP was much lower than my production cost

This bring to the next factor, do you think is possible for me to sell multiple scenes at $15 when the model has tons of scenes released at 1/2 the price and maybe even included into a cheap membership?
The answer is not.
(Vivian is not the case because she did not shoot a lot in south american comparing to other models)

So, when a model works at 300$ in south america and she has 20 scenes for sale at $8 maybe also included into a membership, in europe she deosnt have a chance to get the same payout as Nuria for example (that works only for me and she deosnt appear almost at all on cheap content)

The same happened with Russian girls as well.

The more cheap content you see with a model, the less she will get paid from eu studios.
(this is a general rule, of course there are exceptions)

Black Models
I have been sucked into a fight 2-3 years ago on X because of this. The fact black models are paid less comparing white models is totally justified by sales number. There is no doubt white girls are more profitable and even more profitable specially when we talk about multiple scene (and this a problem that involve also latina girls) comparing to black girls

[hjohjole]

But I can still remember times when these girls also worked for Gonzo/GG....before it came to a breakdown.

There is absolutely no reason why we still couldn't have that today.

[hyapet]

hyapet, since you know all so well, please explain me than why Lola Vivian gets 5 times less for her scenes than Rebel Rhyder?

Besides what Giogrio said - and he would know - are the metrics and breakdown of what the performer looks like.

Don't get me wrong - I think Vivian Lola is both gorgeous and hot. But ...

When you look at her overall - you'll notice a couple of things. The first one being - and this is always crucial - she looks more like a plastic doll than a person. This isn't a dig - this isn't an insult - but I'm almost trying to get into the science of beauty here for a bit.

What does plastic automatically mean when it comes to human understanding? It means cheap. Girls that look like they've had face jobs - or have this super duper tight skin that looks like someone is stretching a skin-suit over a mannikin - don't have the aura of I'm not allowed to touch this. They more have the aura of anyone can touch this.

That brings us to issue number two. I know the producers don't make a big deal of it. But for all the reasons listed above - when you see a girl have gigantic scars on her tits - her beauty ranking gets docked a few points. Vivian Lola - and don't me wrong - I do think she is amazingly hot (and I am not just saying that) - has gigantic scars under both of her breasts. It's like Freddy Kruger performed the surgery. She obviously didn't go to someone with talent to get the procedure done.

Look at a ton of the scenes she is in. What do they try to do? Cover up her mid-range (specifically, the bottom of her breasts). She has a beautiful mid-section - it's not like she's trying to hide a pouch belly or anything. The producers/directors are trying to hide the scars. And why?

Because it adds an aura of cheapness to it. People don't really want to see whores that actually get passed around get passed around in a porno. The studio doesn't want that either. Both people and studios want to see girls who look too pretty for porn in there getting absolutely disgusting things done to them. That is peak porn. That is what everyone wants to watch. That's where the studios go all out on a scene when they get an actress like that.

Plastic is antithetical to pretty. Pretty is natural. Pretty is real. Pretty is not plastic. It just ... isn't.

There's another factor involved here as well. And that's when a girl has a look to them. What is a look?

A look is where, outside of all the singular technicalities of beauty that define the individual parts of beauty (nice curvy tits for example), the actress has a look where all of her particular (and often unique} features go together perfectly.

So, take a performer like Alice Green. Does she have pretty small tits? Sure. But together with both her physical frame, perfectly taut face, and gorgeous curly red hair, make a porn star that men will be birthing knuckle children to in fifty years from now. Take a girl like Baby Kxtten - she almost has no tits. But, her elvish face, blonde hair, and lithe super tight body frame go perfectly with it.

That's a look.

Syren De Mer? The hot mom every teenager wants to bang even when she's fifty years old because of how absolutely juicy and gorgeous her amazing tits go with her absolutely juicy and gorgeous plump face and her beautiful robust and thick curvy/curly hair.

Rebel Rhyder? She doesn't really have a 100% look. Her attributes don't necessarily line-up perfectly with one another. Her breasts are spectacular (and natural! - super important). Her hair is magnificent. And her face is ... a little bit awkward. Just ... awkward. Just a touch. Is her face pretty? Yes. It is! But both the eyes and the cheeks seems to clash with each other somewhat. It's not an issue, really. It's not a problem. But it's still not a 100% perfect fit. What makes up for this though? Her over the top sluttiness. She just jumps on that cock like it's her mission in life. And ... well, there's enough girls out there that do that. But, she does it in her own particular way. Her presence, as a porn star, is just that. An actual presence. So ... that more than makes up for her face not being absolutely perfect. Her personality (and yes - super fucking important) - overrides any small deficiencies that may exist in her look - and provides the complete and total package nonetheless.

And what helps that entirely is ... no plastic. Her breasts are truly magnificent. No scars. A natural hang (but not a droop). A thick, juicy, "grab me to know you're alive" kind of presence that imbues any scene that she's in with a sincere authentic rich hotness.

So ... yeah. I really like Vivian Lola. But - when you break down the science of beauty - you'll see that it gets reflected in the area it matters most: sales.

Good porn studios - good porn directors - good porn scouts - know this science. They can feel it when they look at a girl. That's why some girls who get into porn - and seemingly have all the perfect features (individually) - don't end up selling that well. Because those features don't go together well. They don't culminate in a look.

So - that's the reason Rebel Rhyder gets five times the pay.

Simply put.

[petermc934]

hyapet, since you know all so well, please explain me than why Lola Vivian gets 5 times less for her scenes than Rebel Rhyder?

Because, in all forms of entertainment, you get what you negotiate. If Lola is happy to work for that figure, she will. If not, it’s up to her to negotiate a higher fee and up to her employer if they are willing to pay it.

[isis666xxx]

I'm almost trying to get into the science of beauty here for a bit.

European women in general are fucking ugly.

Fucking ugly women.

The English? Monstrously ugly. The French? Disgustingly ugly. The Germans? They look more like men and sausages than their actual men and sausages do. I don't about you, but seeing a square jaw on a girl ain't fucking attractive. The Italians? They aren't all bad, but it's really an acquired taste. Like, do you like flat, straw-like, tanned, and hairy women? Well, go to Italy I guess. Portugal? Ewwwww. It goes on and on.

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=87684

[hyapet]

I'm almost trying to get into the science of beauty here for a bit.

European women in general are fucking ugly.

Fucking ugly women.

The English? Monstrously ugly. The French? Disgustingly ugly. The Germans? They look more like men and sausages than their actual men and sausages do. I don't about you, but seeing a square jaw on a girl ain't fucking attractive. The Italians? They aren't all bad, but it's really an acquired taste. Like, do you like flat, straw-like, tanned, and hairy women? Well, go to Italy I guess. Portugal? Ewwwww. It goes on and on.

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=87684

Usually when people do this - the first quote is meant to juxtapose the second quote. As in, contradict it.

Nothing I said in the first post you quoted goes against anything I said in the second quote.

You know what people are complaining about in here? The fact that they don't find many of the Gonzo girls attractive. You know what Giorgio says? All he has are European girls to choose from. You know where else this is probably reflected? In the sales. Whatever you see in the forum is typically a microcosm for the larger world out there as a whole.

So ... I don't know what you're trying to get at?

Girl's that have a look typically have an assortment of features that, if not all of them are optimal, still go together beautifully and give them a real unique presence in terms of beauty.

Europeans come from a stock of people who, due to necessity, have a large history of in-breeding. You can see this in their features being exaggerated, rough, or uncomplimentary. You can see this in their drab, tired faces, with, again, exaggerated features. You can see this in their body types where, the girl isn't curvy fat, but rather, square fat. You can see this in the long noses, the dried scrawny hair, and the sunken eyes. All of which make-up accentuates in the absolutely worst ways possible.

You can see this in the complaints many of the people here have of the European actresses - including the four-girls-in-one picture that was posted above here (minus the blue haired girl - she's actually really hot).

You can see this in the sales.

Thanks though for proving to me that my viewpoints line-up across the board.

[YumYum74]

Her breasts are spectacular (and natural! - super important).

Rebel Rhyder does 100% NOT have natural breasts, dude.

[hyapet]

Her breasts are spectacular (and natural! - super important).

Rebel Rhyder does 100% NOT have natural breasts, dude.

I must be wrong then.

But, I've never seen any scar tissue prior. Her breasts also naturally drop. Like, it's a plump drop. There's no "balloon elements" at play there. It doesn't look like somebody tried to cover a large bowling ball with a small blanket type deal.

Whoever did her work - bravo!

Thanks for the heads-up, though. Appreciate it.

[Paizal]

But I can still remember times when these girls also worked for Gonzo/GG....before it came to a breakdown.

There is absolutely no reason why we still couldn't have that today.

There is one - pretty girls only need to hint at their nipples and thousands of idiots pay $50 on OF for it. The attraction of porn money to pretty girls no longer exists. Respectively, it has been replaced by OF money.

[hyapet]

There is one - pretty girls only need to hint at their nipples and thousands of idiots pay $50 on OF for it. The attraction of porn money to pretty girls no longer exists. Respectively, it has been replaced by OF money.

Yes and no.

We're in a transition period of sorts.

It's true that OF has claimed a gigantic chunk of the pie - including the juiciest and tastiest pieces. But, what's also true is that this is merely a transition period.

I don't think the creator of OF really expected the site to take off the way that it did. What else - there is no greater vision behind it than - "Make a page - charge fans for content." Okay - great! But ...

When there are hundreds of thousands of pages ... how does someone differentiate themselves from the crowd? How does somebody stand out at all? That's where a host of other skills become necessary - knowing how to create buzz on different social media platforms - getting followings on other visual social media platforms and having people check out your handle plus "nude" on Google - having a presence and personality that is bewitching and lures men deeper into the profile - having the capacity to outfit yourself/make-up yourself with extreme precision and talent and vision - having a full production schedule that manages to show very little whilst also being able to differentiate the content from show to show - being able to interior decorate (and afford a place where this can be done) to a degree that their room does look like a studio set - and already having all the money ready as a down-payment to do all of this, just for the chance to get a following, and then to be able to milk it.

Like ... that's a lot.

All girls work only for themselves - so a girl has to have all of those skills and still be wanting to do semi-nude/nude content. If a girl really has all those skills - she can most likely find different employment in a whole sequence of other fields. Believe it or not - shame still is a thing for lots of people. And the pride of getting paid for what they can do - not how good they look.

So - in the end - you have the girl's who hit all of these boxes and are also incredibly beautiful. What do they do? They suck up 99% of all the available money on OF. Just like Twitch before it - you have a handful of creators who are now multi-millionaires - and everyone else who's got fifty people (if they're lucky) checking out their stream.

I know of girls who are drop-dead gorgeous hot who have OF pages and ... got like thirty people checking them out. They're not social media whizzes, they don't have expensive sets, they can't lure guys into the chat with gaming knowledge/exhibitions because they don't play games, they don't have a bubbly over-the-top personality, and they are only 9 instead of 10 out of 10s. They got a small collection of buyers. They probably earn a nice small bit of extra cash on the side. But ... they can't even pay their rent with it. So ...

Pretty bad returns for their nude pictures forever being on the Internet going forward.

Just like the start of a gold rush - you see somebody rather unremarkable hold up a gigantic pot of gold, simply because they were at the right spot at the right time - and now everybody thinks, "I'm going to be the next one to strike it rich!"

But very few do. And it takes a while for all the people going out there with the gold collecting equipment come back home and wonder what they're going to do now.

We're currently in the middle of that transition with OF. Where the top of the top are seeing ridiculous returns - and everyone else is starting to figure it out that ... maybe they won't be a millionaire anytime soon by doing this.

What the end of this transition period looks like is anybody's guess. Maybe OF will revamp their page distribution and make a more easier-to-browse network that will enable lots of different talent to get their viewership (and paid memberships) up. Maybe a whole series of girls will say, "This isn't giving the returns I expected," and suddenly you'll see the greatest porn surge of beautiful talent in the history of the medium. Feast begets famine, and vice versa.

'Cause - a lot of these girls aren't social media influencers. They don't have the personality to successfully mimic a personality that everyone can feel is paying attention directly to them. They don't have the taste in wardrobe, furniture, or kitsch to draw in eyes. They don't have a lot that would otherwise be needed for this entirely entrepreneurial model of content production.

They're interested in taking their clothes off for money - chances are - they don't really have a ton else to offer.

And that's where porn studios come in. A guaranteed payment (re: they will actually make money), and industry professionals taking care of everything else.

There's an absolute ocean of beautiful talent on OF that could, most likely, be influenced to produce content for porn studios. And become regular actresses to boot.

But the dream still has yet to fully die. Everyone still believes the OF mountain is fully loaded with gold. They still believe that they're going to be a star and a millionaire and all they'll have to do is maybe show a nipple. That's a hard dream to dispel. It's almost so outrageously amazing, that not even cold hard reality can knock it out of people's minds. But ... reality soon will kick in with a lot of these performers.

Their nudies on the net - having a net base of a hundred customers - getting older.

OF knocked porn on it's ass. But OF isn't this invincible mega-machine that no-one can beat.

It's something that the clever porn studios will learn how to co-exist with. Where they will find a way into the scene themselves - and learn how to persuade the talent that's fallen through the cracks to try real porn instead. They dream of mountains full of gold plays a pretty good goalie to that, but ...

There are an incredible amount of cracks filled with talent on OF, too.

[Paizal]

OF knocked porn on it's ass. But OF isn't this invincible mega-machine that no-one can beat.

It's something that the clever porn studios will learn how to co-exist with.

I am much more pessimistic about this. OF showed me that many consumers were never interested in porn, but in connecting with the girls. OF porn is absolute crap, but many men seem to love interacting with the girls. Even if that interaction is fake.So I think the next big thing will be AI. AI will kill both - OF and studio porn. Men will do what they are currently doing with OF girls - pretending to be in a fake relationship. They will decide what the girl looks like, how she acts, what she does and so on. No other medium will be able to offer this kind of sex.

[hyapet]

I am much more pessimistic about this. OF showed me that many consumers were never interested in porn, but in connecting with the girls. OF porn is absolute crap, but many men seem to love interacting with the girls. Even if that interaction is fake.So I think the next big thing will be AI. AI will kill both - OF and studio porn. Men will do what they are currently doing with OF girls - pretending to be in a fake relationship. They will decide what the girl looks like, how she acts, what she does and so on. No other medium will be able to offer this kind of sex.

I think you hit the nail on the head there concerning AI.

I don't think people's preference for porn dwindled at all because of OF - I just think the market's resources shifted around - and people ended up following the people they found attractive. There might be a subsect of beta males who like to pretend that the performer extracting cash is actually interested in them, but they are few and far between. If the audience were that large, more than 1% of OF girls would be killing it right now.

But, definitely. The progress AI has made in a single year is the equivalent to what past industries took ten to fifteen years to achieve. Not just this - but the AI is being programmed to program itself - so, it can ultimately come up with the answers to the bigger problems facing getting to the next stage.

If you don't think there are multiple companies out there putting together a character creator (like a video game), which can then have your creation be put in any scenario, from any angle, doing any number of things, and then create the video for you ... then you don't know what fueled the whole AI boom to begin with. Same with the Internet and everything else pretty much.

Will OF girls still be able to make money? Sure - but not as much as porn. OF will probably be seen as a temporary flare up - that will then fade away. It's a lot more sensible creating the girl of your dreams who will then act and sound like exactly who you want them to while "interacting" with you and you alone than it is "talking" to an OF girl who's also "talking" to two hundred people in chat.

Porn however is pretty much about degradation. The "interacting with them" is about as legit with OF as "saving the world" is at Disneyland. But porn? It's not about getting acknowledged. It's about watching someone get put through their paces. It's about someone getting overwhelmed. It's about stripping away someone's personality to the point where they are now consumed with one thing and one thing alone; animal lust and basic pleasure.

Don't get me wrong - with every day that passes - AI gets even more powerful. But, at the end of the day, sometimes people crave reality. And when it comes to "being real" - porn is a lot more authentic by a long mile than OF is.

Like - AI is still going to take a large portion of that pie - make no mistake. But the part it's going to take is from OF. The creation of videos where it actually looks like a girl is interacting with you will take the one thing that OF has. Add to this that - overall - there are so many implications with OF. Like, this girl wouldn't give you the time of day in real life. This girl is only acting this way for the money. This girl has a series of beliefs that are at complete odds with your own. There is just so much baggage there - that the AI girl will win hands down.

Real porn will survive. But yeah ... the OF clock is ticking away with every passing day. And honestly - I can't wait.

[dap-addict]

AI saveing real porn is a nice idea!
I hope you are right here, your argumentation sounds right to me actually.
At least far more than the white race vs other races thing and the dont do DAP soon call of yours.

[hyapet]

AI saveing real porn is a nice idea!
I hope you are right here, your argumentation sounds right to me actually.
At least far more than the white race vs other races thing and the dont do DAP soon call of yours.

As I said prior, there are tons of OF models who don't earn anything close to what their beauty could bring them in porn. What will happen, though, has to hit closer to home in order for anything to change. It's always easy to worry about the War a little bit when it's happening over there, somewhere else. It's another thing when it happens right on the platform itself.

What will go down (and it's already happening on IG) is that some guy will create a model. And then - they will create an account for them - learn how to create live shows with them (the technology - 100% - already exists for this - and is being used in other fields - it requires next to no money at all to get working - it just might need a touch of an upgrade) - and end up creating one of the top 1% OF pages. This person will be taking in large swathes of money - and the media will be all over it.

Suddenly - more people will be checking out both the tech and the profile of this person who's become a millionaire by creating a fictional character. More and more girls will look at the absolute peak super ultimate form of AI beauty that is now their competition on the platform - and figure that what may have already been tough - just ended up getting a lot tougher.

From there - for the ones who still want it - porn will become the alternative. And, don't you worry, there are AI programs being developed to create scenes based off of suggestions as well. They're already in the testing phase where they create three to five second clips based off of an image. There's going to be more of this coming, don't you worry. Nevertheless, though ...

Most people aren't stupid with their money. If it comes down to a choice between a $20 a month membership at a site to create the girl of your dreams, who will then act and talk to you in any way you like, and perform any sex act you desire on screen, or paying some girl hundreds of dollars so she might show you a nipple ... the AI girl is going to win. 99.5% of the time. People usually veer away from wasting money they could spend elsewhere. Most people. There will be leftovers. But, not enough to pronounce the OF vision as anything but dead.

-----

As for people getting paid more for porn based off of their race - that's just how it works. You might not like it that I bring it up - but I'm merely bringing up facts, dap_addict. Giorgio himself backed this up when I said it. The money verifies this. As do the sales that is responsible for how much the actresses get paid.

In a perfect world, one could argue, this wouldn't take place. Fair enough. Beauty should be it's own standard and I can totally see standing behind that. However, this isn't a perfect world. And if you think there aren't subconscious thoughts and preferences at play for who you decide to think is beautiful - and why they are as such - I might have some alarming news for you.

Ever hear the term "girl next door?" What does that refer to? A girl's who's just naturally cute and looks like she wasn't made to be a thin-legged, no-stomach, taut-faced runway model, but is still 100x more beautiful than those people anyways. What does the term "girl next door" really represent? An innocence and purity that hasn't let the jaded and cynical nature of life absorb into them by this point - a personality and character who views positivity as the way forward - someone who, actually, just acts like themselves, and hasn't adopted a persona or personality that acts as a shield for all the bullshit of the world that they, through experience, know is there.

And what does the "girl next door" really mean for the porn audience? A fresh-faced, innocent, pure girl who's going to get rammed by a gigantic cock so large she'll have trouble walking for the next month.

You might want to make the argument that, "Oh, no! People are just looking at the porn because it's art - because they appreciate the natural beauty of the girl!" But, when the reality comes down to it, these are the factors that come into play when it comes to what porn models do exceedingly better than others. And, one of those factors, as you can well imagine, is race.

The "you shalt not touch this - I'm putting it up on the highest shelf" value of the white girl, who ... due to the implications that she comes from the historically most successful race (within recent real-world metrics), who ... has access to opportunities that other girls from other places would kill each other just to be able to reach them, and who ... in every situation, from dating to job applications, can fully rely on their race to give them a boost and extract more value from whoever they're dealing with ... like ...

When a white girl finds herself in porn - the spotlight most definitely, certainly, goes on her. For all of these reasons and even more. That's cold hard facts. Based on what girls are paid for in porn. That's reality.

You might not like to hear it - but that doesn't stop it from being true.

Outside of that - I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to when you say "don't do DAP soon." If by that, you mean, girls who know they have that certain X factor, can extract more value and worth from their porn journey based off of not climbing the ladder as fast as others, then, what can I say? Reality again?

What would you tell Eden Ivy - a girl who's shot over like sixty scenes (probably way more) - and who hasn't done DAP yet? That she's dumb from extracting that much cash for her own career? That building that anticipation and desired wait are bad things for the audience? (Which, it really isn't).

I mean, I get it. Watching girls do DAP is amazing. Especially the first time. But there only is a 1st time, really. Everything after that becomes less exciting, just by the nature of it already having been done before. That's why it's called ladder-breaking. You can't go on the same rung more than once. Once the girl's do the deed - that's it.

Their value in the marketplace goes down afterwards.

A true beauty showing her nipple for the first time can cause a cash windfall of up to six digits worth of cash on OF. If girl's start doing porn - for the length of their own career - it's often imperative that they don't rush into scenes that quickly, before they're trained, before they get their style down, and before a built audience is thirsting for that ladder rung to be broken.

There are always exceptions to this. But, typically, those are what they are; exceptions. That doesn't mean they're doing it wrong - or even that they're doing it right - but, overall, for someone in porn who actually wants to make enough money to be able to build a sustainable future for themselves afterwards (which, is kind of necessary, seeing as not too many porn girls become anything else after they're done) - then this is both necessary and understandable.

Again - this is just the way things are. I can tell you it's going to rain tomorrow - and you might be upset at that - but don't blame me for the rain.

Right?

[magizi87]

WHERE are all these beautiful girls people talk about?

how many pages I need to scroll down to find a single beautiul woman on the Giorgio Grandi Studio section.

Spoiler alert, you have to scroll WHOLE years worth of content to find one.

Piss and DAP drove beautiful women off this platform.

That's just the simple truth.

Go to ANY other porn webstie that stays away from this horseshit, they are filled with beauties in their PRIME.

[hyapet]

WHERE are all these beautiful girls people talk about?

how many pages I need to scroll down to find a single beautiul woman on the Giorgio Grandi Studio section.

Spoiler alert, you have to scroll WHOLE years worth of content to find one.

Piss and DAP drove beautiful women off this platform.

That's just the simple truth.

Go to ANY other porn webstie that stays away from this horseshit, they are filled with beauties in their PRIME.

The platform has always been about DAP. That's like asking a cow farm not to produce milk.

The subset of performers who are willing to go down that road is selective at best anyways. There's always been an uncomfortable truth that the stars who end up at AVLP, especially the North American ones, do so once they've essentially hit the entire porn circuit twice over already anyways.

It was always the Eastern European and Russian talent, young, fresh, and beautiful, who elevated the entirety of the AVLP enterprise. From beginning to end. Those days, especially with the Russian talent being gone, are long over. That's nobody's fault though. Least of all Giorgio's. Or, what? Do you want him to get on the phone with Putin and tell him that, hey Champ, I think it's time you stopped the war?

I can't really disagree with the pissing, though. I mean, you've essentially narrowed your selection of girls down to a bunch of tatted freaks who look like they drink motor oil for breakfast and sleep on concrete mattresses. Girls who, through whichever combination of mental illnesses they possess, figure that, "Hell, might as well get pissed on as well, all things considered."

But, after DAP became the norm, there had to be something that made the act degrading and gross. And, I guess, pissing fit the bill.

You might be longing for these days in the future if one especially courageous actress ever decides to eat a shit sandwich on set.

[Giorgio Grandi]

WHERE are all these beautiful girls people talk about?

how many pages I need to scroll down to find a single beautiul woman on the Giorgio Grandi Studio section.

Spoiler alert, you have to scroll WHOLE years worth of content to find one.

Piss and DAP drove beautiful women off this platform.

That's just the simple truth.

Go to ANY other porn webstie that stays away from this horseshit, they are filled with beauties in their PRIME.

The all point of a studio is not to shoot beautiful girls, the point is to make money.
The point of most of girls is not to shoot porn but to establish their own content creations and stay away from porn producers.

Your point doesnt have any sense.

[davebowman]

I am much more pessimistic about this. OF showed me that many consumers were never interested in porn, but in connecting with the girls. OF porn is absolute crap, but many men seem to love interacting with the girls. Even if that interaction is fake.So I think the next big thing will be AI. AI will kill both - OF and studio porn. Men will do what they are currently doing with OF girls - pretending to be in a fake relationship. They will decide what the girl looks like, how she acts, what she does and so on. No other medium will be able to offer this kind of sex.

Models are going to be using AI as well - even if they are still physically filming videos/taking photos, the time-consuming business of promoting and running on social media, chatting to fans etc will just be farmed out to AI and chatbots. The big-name girls already have other people actually running their social media feeds pretending to be them, but AI is going to make all this automated - I think in the short-term at least, it's going to make it easier for amateur girls to run OF accounts.

Then give it another 20 years when AI generated fake porn videos will be impossible to distinguish from real filmed sex acts, and the whole industry is going to collapse. Ultimately it will all be user generated, with no real girls involved at all (other than the millions of actresses the AI has been trained on).

[netzerkaiser]

I am much more pessimistic about this. OF showed me that many consumers were never interested in porn, but in connecting with the girls. OF porn is absolute crap, but many men seem to love interacting with the girls. Even if that interaction is fake.So I think the next big thing will be AI. AI will kill both - OF and studio porn. Men will do what they are currently doing with OF girls - pretending to be in a fake relationship. They will decide what the girl looks like, how she acts, what she does and so on. No other medium will be able to offer this kind of sex.

Models are going to be using AI as well - even if they are still physically filming videos/taking photos, the time-consuming business of promoting and running on social media, chatting to fans etc will just be farmed out to AI and chatbots. The big-name girls already have other people actually running their social media feeds pretending to be them, but AI is going to make all this automated - I think in the short-term at least, it's going to make it easier for amateur girls to run OF accounts.

Then give it another 20 years when AI generated fake porn videos will be impossible to distinguish from real filmed sex acts, and the whole industry is going to collapse. Ultimately it will all be user generated, with no real girls involved at all (other than the millions of actresses the AI has been trained on).

I'm quietly confident AI will die. The Earth needs to cut back on all the useless consummation of water & energy that goes into this crap. social media will die. We'll be back to using ploughs with 'the heavy gear' stored for a crisis.

I hope this happens, anyway.

[magizi87]

if the point is to make money, please explain how is that you are making more money, with ugly girls.

[M_sicas_Candido]

The big-name girls already have other people actually running their social media feeds pretending to be them, but AI is going to make all this automated - I think in the short-term at least, it's going to make it easier for amateur girls to run OF accounts.

Well, do you think fans' reaction will be positive when they discover they're actually interacting with bots rather than the star herself? Think about the side effect this might have.

[Giorgio Grandi]

if the point is to make money, please explain how is that you are making more money, with ugly girls.

Because there is a difference between an average girl doing this and a super hot girl doing that, sale wise, on long term.
In porn you make money shooting the same girl 50 time, you dont make money shooting a girl 2-3 time.

In average
With a hot girl that does anal and DP maybe I can make good money on short term, but with the amount of money she will start soon to get as Content Creator, she wont be available to perform anymore pretty soon.
A less hot girl will continue to perform for other longer time and more willing to experiment with DAP and Pee. A model performing DAP and Pee doesnt sell because she looks hot only, she sells because the niches she explores are highly selling compering to anal and DP.

this is in short, is complex topic, but it gives you the idea

[isis666xxx]

I'm quietly confident AI will die. The Earth needs to cut back on all the useless consummation of water & energy that goes into this crap. social media will die. We'll be back to using ploughs with 'the heavy gear' stored for a crisis.

I hope this happens, anyway.

scared of AI uhhh???

[isis666xxx]

WHERE are all these beautiful girls people talk about?

how many pages I need to scroll down to find a single beautiul woman on the Giorgio Grandi Studio section.

Spoiler alert, you have to scroll WHOLE years worth of content to find one.

Piss and DAP drove beautiful women off this platform.

That's just the simple truth.

Go to ANY other porn webstie that stays away from this horseshit, they are filled with beauties in their PRIME.

so you mean most girls are ugly???

if the point is to make money, please explain how is that you are making more money, with ugly girls.

pffff

pathethic

most are very hot, who you think you are to call most models in Giorgio Grandi's studio 'not beautiful'

just because a girl is not extremely heavenly pretty, doesnt mean shes not pretty either, if shes not extremely pretty then shes ugly?

you remind me of what hyapet said:

European women in general are fucking ugly.

Fucking ugly women.

The English? Monstrously ugly. The French? Disgustingly ugly. The Germans? They look more like men and sausages than their actual men and sausages do. I don't about you, but seeing a square jaw on a girl ain't fucking attractive. The Italians? They aren't all bad, but it's really an acquired taste. Like, do you like flat, straw-like, tanned, and hairy women? Well, go to Italy I guess. Portugal? Ewwwww. It goes on and on.

[hyapet]

What I was referencing there in that comment, isis666xxx, was the average girl you would find on the street. Like, per average. Not your average porn-star, which the current discussion revolves around.

American white girls are still hot even after they've had a couple kids (many times). They retain their form, their shape, and their look. They mature into it - and fill it out a bit more - but, man ... They can really go the distance, in terms of age, and keeping their figure.

European women typically come in one of two varieties. You've got your candlestick. And you've got your bloated cart full of cheese. Neither of these two go to good places, looks wise.

The candlesticks become even skinnier in age, and turn into some kind of mix between the wicked witch of the west, a ghoul, and a zombie. Their skin both tightens but clumps together at the same time, their faces end up looking like somebody is stretching plastic wrap over a plastic skeleton, and their two tiny tits bunch and bulge together into two separate tiny hills that then manage to still droop and slump downwards.

The bloated cheese carts are even worse. Their already round circular shape now becomes more square like. They change their just obese fat look for that of an actual cement block. Their tits disappear into their stomach. Their face, likewise, turns into a square. Where it seems to be filling out some kind of invisible mold.

You know who else look like this? A lot of Arab women. And you want to know why? Because it's okay in the Arab world to marry your first cousin.

This is what in-breeding does.

This isn't me hating on someone because of their ethnicity - this is me giving you the straight facts in a non-bullshit manner. If you cannot read what's being said - with straight-forward language - then don't take my comments out of context.

The European women in porn come from this background. Or, rather, this is the basis for their competition. The European porn-stars are hot - if you compare them to what the average European girl looks like. Thing is though ...

Porn-stars aren't compared to other girls of the same nationality. I mean, they are, but ... they are also judged against every other porn-star out there, period.

So, when a girl like Nikki Hill, Baby Kxtten, Eva Barbie, or Eliz Benson comes around ... everyone else that used to be an 8/10 ... now becomes a 7.8 or a 7.7. That's ... just the way it is. All girls are in competition with one another on this platform. And that is seen where it matters most - in the money.

The minute a mind-blowing hottie comes around - whether in porn or on OF - they start pulling in major amounts of cash. That cash didn't magically appear from nowhere. That cash came from a whole series of other performers who are now earning less - sometimes significantly so.

It's like a pyramid scheme. But, only the hottest girls get to buy a few Porsche's because they showed half a nipple. Everyone else has some hard contract work to do with their agent and the studio to get every last nickel they can from taking two gigantic hung dudes up their rear - with the potential, if they're lucky - to maybe take three in the future.

That's the cold hard reality of this business.

Please - if you're going to quote me, though - do so in the proper context.

It will show that you have no only read, but understood what you have read. Which is important.

[petermc934]

The notion that pee is the thing that scares hot girls away is silly. Loads of hot porn performers shoot pee scenes. In the early days of OF, it was full of top US pornstars shooting exclusive scenes with pissing before OF clamped down on it. Even now creators like 2Drops, Disciples Of Desire, Hookup Hotshot shoot piss scenes with top pornstars. Piss is pretty easy to shoot. Getting anally gangbanged hard and rough with huge dicked guys doing DAP, TAP etc is not so easy and I have no doubt that this is what scares a lot of girls away. If AVLP was just normal one on one scenes with anal and pissing, you’d still get hot girls here more regularly. That being said there are still some pretty hot girls here such as Nuria Milan, Kristy Black, Vivian Lola, Baby Kxtten, Veronica Leal, Monika Fox, Ria Sunn, Qweensg, Mina and Greta Foss to name a few.

[hyapet]

The notion that pee is the thing that scares hot girls away is silly. Loads of hot porn performers shoot pee scenes. In the early days of OF, it was full of top US pornstars shooting exclusive scenes with pissing before OF clamped down on it. Even now creators like 2Drops, Disciples Of Desire, Hookup Hotshot shoot piss scenes with top pornstars. Piss is pretty easy to shoot. Getting anally gangbanged hard and rough with huge dicked guys doing DAP, TAP etc is not so easy and I have no doubt that this is what scares a lot of girls away. If AVLP was just normal one on one scenes with anal and pissing, you’d still get hot girls here more regularly. That being said there are still some pretty hot girls here such as Nuria Milan, Kristy Black, Vivian Lola, Baby Kxtten, Veronica Leal, Monika Fox, Ria Sunn, Qweensg, Mina and Greta Foss to name a few.

Saying there are no hot porn-stars is an obvious exaggeration.

What they're most likely trying to say is, "They're not as many hot performers as there used to be." That much is true.

With the OF boom and Russia closing it's doors - they're losing it from both ends. They had a non-stop stream of insanely hot girls travelling in from Russia all the time to do DAP like it was taking a nap, and the other porn-stars didn't have an alternate platform through which they could become their own boss.

Any single one of those happening would be difficult enough on it's own, but when both happen simultaneously, you can definitely notice it.

That being said, people dumping on Giorgio like as if he decided to put up his feet one day and say, "Fuck it - I'm not going to try anymore," is horrific bullshit. The fact that the actresses are still coming through the AVLP doors that are is a testament to the amount of game and brains the man has. If it weren't for him doing everything he could, things would be a lot worse.

So seeing people on here take the piss out of him really irks me. Fuck off with that, "You used to be good," bullshit that people are throwing at him. If they were in any kind of situation similar to this in their own industry, you know what you would read on their website? "Out of Business." The man's pulled a miracle to get the girls he has to shoot for him.

'Bout time people paid him some basic Goddamn fucking respect.

For real.

As for pissing - the real problem is that no-one has learned to properly incorporate it into the porn shoot itself. Whenever the pissing happens - all the action stops. It's poison for the momentum of the scene. The idea being, "The act in itself is so degrading that everything else can stop for it."

Wrong. What they need to do is this.

They need to keep the actors AND the camera moving. Take the softest guy of the bunch - and have him start deepthroating the girl - like all the way down. And have him start pissing into her stomach. Have the piss come shooting out of the girl's nose and mouth and have her gagging and crying. Then, without pause, have her get tossed around to the next guy who does the same thing, while all the guys are giving each other high-fives and laughing about it.

Have the camera zoom in on the girl, and zoom out, have it get real close for when she starts to puke. Make it personal, make it real.

This five guys standing around and having a limp-dicked leak into a champagne glass fucking sucks.

For fucks sakes, you guys are Legal Fucking Porno. If you're going to do pissing - do it right.

[petermc934]

I’m sure someone specifically referenced having to scroll back a whole year to find a hot female performer. That was why I said there were still many around. I don’t disagree with you though in that there seems to be a smaller talent pool to choose from and we get the same few girls on a loop these days. I’m sure the war in Ukraine contributes to that and, from what I understand, the war on porn in Russia too. Unfortunately greedy porn fans who wanted free porn have also damaged the industry to the point where studios (the ones who haven’t gone under) can’t afford to pay decent money to the performers anymore and girls can now make more money from OF than studio porn if they’re willing to put the work in. Giorgio is also correct that covid also opened a lot of girls eyes to this sooner as they were forced into going out on their own.

[hjohjole]

That being said, people dumping on Giorgio like as if he decided to put up his feet one day and say, "Fuck it - I'm not going to try anymore," is horrific bullshit. The fact that the actresses are still coming through the AVLP doors that are is a testament to the amount of game and brains the man has. If it weren't for him doing everything he could, things would be a lot worse.

So seeing people on here take the piss out of him really irks me. Fuck off with that, "You used to be good," bullshit that people are throwing at him. If they were in any kind of situation similar to this in their own industry, you know what you would read on their website? "Out of Business." The man's pulled a miracle to get the girls he has to shoot for him.

Yeah what a miracle worker Giorgio is. He managed to get Vittoria Devine for yet another scene today. How the fuck did he pull that one off? Amazing!

Look. He even says it himself that he is deliberately looking for less hot girls that he can shoot for as many scenes as possible.

Because there is a difference between an average girl doing this and a super hot girl doing that, sale wise, on long term.
In porn you make money shooting the same girl 50 time, you dont make money shooting a girl 2-3 time.

In average
With a hot girl that does anal and DP maybe I can make good money on short term, but with the amount of money she will start soon to get as Content Creator, she wont be available to perform anymore pretty soon.
A less hot girl will continue to perform for other longer time and more willing to experiment with DAP and Pee. A model performing DAP and Pee doesnt sell because she looks hot only, she sells because the niches she explores are highly selling compering to anal and DP.

[misangrenegra2]

Yeah what a miracle worker Giorgio is. He managed to get Vittoria Devine for yet another scene today. How the fuck did he pull that one off? Amazing!

Look. He even says it himself that he is deliberately looking for less hot girls that he can shoot for as many scenes as possible.

He talks about him experience and watching for him bussiness.

For me is an accurate argue because porn and life is not like 20 years ago on you could find top hot girls that wanted to work in the adult industry and keep them in long terms.

In this years the only way to do it was shoot for porn sites and directors and internet wasn't too much developed as today.

They got a lot of fame and surely they got other ways to get more money but they stilled shooting.

But basically there weren't the opportunity and ways to do what the women can do currently with all those plataforms, who knows what could happened.

What i guess that Gio tries to say is that, based on him experience, some top hot girls wants be a part of the adult industry but they use porn as a way/bridge to get fame and later work as content creators to get more money and for be their own boss. As a bussiness, for him is more profitable get average women that are willing to shoot in long terms than top girls opportunist.

[hjohjole]

For me is an accurate argue because porn and life is not like 20 years ago on you could find top hot girls that wanted to work in the adult industry and keep them in long terms.
..
But basically there weren't the opportunity and ways to do what the women can do currently with all those plataforms, who knows what could happened.

We are not talking about 20 years ago. Attractive women haven't been absent from hardcore porn for 20 years.

As someone else already said in this thread, it was just a few years ago that we still saw the same good looking models that where doing anal scenes for more moderate producer also was working for Gonzo/GG.
The situation has not changed that radically in just a few years. All "those platforms" already existed then.
There should be no reason why European women who already is working in the industry should be off the table. No reason other than the producer deliberately decides to avoid them. And Giorgio says himself in this very thread that this is exactly what he does.

One thing that has changed is that Russia started a war. And since then it has become more difficult for Russian women to work in Europe.
Well not for the ones working for Vixen group i guess. They have new Russian models shooting i Spain all the time like nothing happened.
And even Giorgio still books Russian women from time to time. So it is not impossible. At least not as long as they are over 30 i guess.

[Gmoney18]

I cannot tell giorgio how to do what is best for his business in new age of fans sites. But speaking as a customer i hope the return of kristy signals that giorgio is more willing to regularly pay for girls like kristy, alicia, lina, silvia, nicole, monika, elen, etc. I long ago cancelled membership because there just is not enough scenes with these models i like being released on a monthly basis. But i am still more than willing to pay 20-25+ euro for giorgio scenes with these models.

[Christopher_Williams1]

I cannot tell giorgio how to do what is best for his business in new age of fans sites. But speaking as a customer i hope the return of kristy signals that giorgio is more willing to regularly pay for girls like kristy, alicia, lina, silvia, nicole, monika, elen, etc. I long ago cancelled membership because there just is not enough scenes with these models i like being released on a monthly basis. But i am still more than willing to pay 20-25+ euro for giorgio scenes with these models.

Yeah, I canceled my membership too. I still have tkts that are collecting dusts. While I try to stay optimistic, there're nowhere near as many scenes for me to buy as it was prior to 05/2023. We maybe had a couple of stretches of 2 weeks here and there where I can buy scenes since then. Hopefully things can turn around soon. While this is unlikely, it would be nice if GIO released the schedule of future releases a few weeks out along with the participates. That can give me something to look forward to.

Also, I recommend you guys check out the old scenes. I've been spending my money there. Jesus Lord, I kind of have like 8 scenes from a fan's favorite, Kaira Love.

[dap-addict]

Looks like LTP stopped production in Medellin!
After some fraudulent re-releases mid May nothing new except BTS since!

[paobroncix01]

Looks like LTP stopped production in Medellin!
After some fraudulent re-releases mid May nothing new except BTS since!

They used to produce very nice videos. I wonder what went wrong..

[TomHardick]

Looks like LTP stopped production in Medellin!
After some fraudulent re-releases mid May nothing new except BTS since!

What?, those are sad news. I love their way of shooting; plus their Helen Star's scenes are master pieces. I hope they are back soon. So many Colombian girls that need to be filmed by LTP.

[dap-addict]

They used to release a new DAP scene almost every other day in 2024.
I bought 99% of them.
3-4 DAPs per week usually.

Not to mention all that fine Colombian talent now out of work!

[YuriyProneBone]

Natasha has the black dicks, so i would rather see all the girls going there instead.

[stockard692]

Good we need a slowdown. Most studios produce the same scenes anyway. Its not the end of the world. New studios are not needed so they can do what, make the same video. Enjoy the decline. I rather two studios make quality then 100 make utter shit. We have two many studios too be honestly. This slowdown only disadvantage is more higher ticket prices.

YEZ!

European women in general are fucking ugly.

Fucking ugly women.

The English? Monstrously ugly. The French? Disgustingly ugly. The Germans? They look more like men and sausages than their actual men and sausages do. I don't about you, but seeing a square jaw on a girl ain't fucking attractive. The Italians? They aren't all bad, but it's really an acquired taste. Like, do you like flat, straw-like, tanned, and hairy women? Well, go to Italy I guess. Portugal? Ewwwww. It goes on and on.

Your comment makes me smile (I mean this in a positive way). Actually, France, Germany and Italy have plenty of sexy women, they just don't do porn (even before OF), let alone “extreme” porn. But AVLP's goldmine has always been Eastern Europe. The Timea Bella, Tina Hot, Kristy Black breed of performers.

WHERE are all these beautiful girls people talk about?

how many pages I need to scroll down to find a single beautiul woman on the Giorgio Grandi Studio section.

Spoiler alert, you have to scroll WHOLE years worth of content to find one.

Piss and DAP drove beautiful women off this platform.

That's just the simple truth.

Go to ANY other porn webstie that stays away from this horseshit, they are filled with beauties in their PRIME.

I agree especially on the last sentence. Any other porn site doesn't have this much trouble finding beauties in their prime (and also has lower subscription prices). I don't think it's primarily a DAP/wet issue. Especially now that so many US girls are shooting wet content, even if on niche sites like Hookup Hotshot (to which I am currently a subscriber) or on their OF/MV pages.

It's that LP European studios stopped scouting and searching for new girls. Gio and Angelo are just fine shooting Anne Deville and Veronica Leal for the 200th time and taking from time to time girls who Natasha Teen or Oscar MamboPerv scouted in South America than looking for someone new, or paying a ticket for a hot girl (outside the few usual ones) from the US. Good old times Gonzo and Gio would had no problem to invest some money and bring Hazel Moore or Chloe Amour on LP just to elevate the brand and attract new audiences. They currently do not really care about their product, they are just fine as long as the regular buyers don't care if the girl is ugly and trashy or if Anna Deville's 100th scene is identical to the 99th or 98th. You can tell they are getting lazy from a lot of elements, not just the girls.

What's that have to do with OF content cannibalizing DP/DAP/TAP releases???
Proves single-handedly that OF is actually irrelevant and a BS pretense for your slowdown

I agree, I am sick of the OF excuse. Not that OF phenomenon does not exist, but I'm pretty sure Czech republic, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia or Ukraine are plenty of hot girls who would make more money from one month of porn than from 2 years of OF. Most recent hot pornstars in the US are coming from OF, eg. Shrooms, Katie Cai, Eva Generosi, stunning milf Serenity Cox, i.e OF was their entry in the porn industry and not the opposite.

I just hate it when people pick a figure that only like the top 10 earners of the entire platform make. I did sign up for Kira Thorn fanpage, briefly, and it wasn't really for me, so I unsubscribed. I don't know her finances, but it's apparent that it wasn't enough to maintain the page, as it has now been like a year since she last logged in. And while I was there, I noticed that the interaction of her fans on the page was very minimal. And we could probably agree that she is pretty and should be a top 10% earner at the very least.

But yeah, I don't think OF complicates how competitive an offer can be to a performer.

I do agree that performing can be a stepping stone, but it rarely propels them to where an actress would rather be.

Exactly. For each one making a wealth on OT (mostly because they were a celebrity before entering OF, through porn, social media or mainstream entertainment), there are thousands of obscure hot girls with very few/not enough subscribers to make in a month what they would make in a single scene for GIO.