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Was Pele really the greatest?

I know a lot of Brazilian lads here... do they defend him or appreciate more Garrincha or Rivelino?

I know Pele compared Maradona to Rivelino as an insult... but my God Rivelinho was an exquisite footballer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoiOH3sCemw

What I do know is that Messi is about on par with Sivori, IMO, he would've been broken up back in the day.

I also loved Beckenbauer & Baggio, Cruyff, & Platini, Van Basten, Schuster... so many:

In truth there were so many great ones, different types in different times & we don't really have adequate footage to analyse anyone prior to mid-1960's (with exception of Italian league from mid-1950's)...

My first football "crush" was the italian GK Gianluca Pagliuca. In 1994, I was 7 years old and the World Cup in the USA was my first major football tournament. I loved the sound of his name pronounced my Polish commentators, I loved his look of a 50-60' Hollywood star of Italian descent and I loved (and still love) defensive football.

Later will probably write about my other football crushes.

Today I don't care anymore for club football. Never had "my" club. For some time I was "fan" of AC Ajaccio because French singer Alizée comes from Ajaccio (just like Napoleon). I wanked to her pics and videos for many hours and that's because of her I started to learn French.

I prefer national teams football, but don't watch matches anymore. Too boring and, to be honest, I dont really care for results. But reading about football it's always a rather simple and effective manner to escape from some shitty toughts.

My second football crush was Mini Jakobsen, forwad from Rosenborg Trondheim.

At that time Rosenborg qualified regulary for Champions League. I liked them because in comparison with big European clubs they were just a random club from Scandinavia. However, I know that at that time they dominated outrageusly Norwegian championship.

I liked Mini Jakobsen because he was short. At that time I didn't "know" I was going to be short in my adulthood, but I had a kind of intution. I knew I was fat and that my dick was going to be small. So I liked footballers who also seemed a bit "worse" than others.

Same for Pedro Munitis. He didn't have the athletic physique of a professional athlete. However, he atteined the international level.

However, I dont care at all for Messi for instance. Dont know why. He is also small. But perhaps he is too good to be true in my eyes. And he is a part of the modern football system that I can't stand.

Mini and Munitis played in other epoque.

ZiziMinuscule2 wrote:My second football crush was Mini Jakobsen, forwad from Rosenborg Trondheim.

At that time Rosenborg qualified regulary for Champions League. I liked them because in comparison with big European clubs they were just a random club from Scandinavia. However, I know that at that time they dominated outrageusly Norwegian championship.

I liked Mini Jakobsen because he was short. At that time I didn't "know" I was going to be short in my adulthood, but I had a kind of intution. I knew I was fat and that my dick was going to be small. So I liked footballers who also seemed a bit "worse" than others.

Same for Pedro Munitis. He didn't have the athletic physique of a professional athlete. However, he atteined the international level.

However, I dont care at all for Messi for instance. Dont know why. He is also small. But perhaps he is too good to be true in my eyes. And he is a part of the modern football system that I can't stand.

Mini and Munitis played in other epoque.

Wow! What a wonderful idiosyncratic post. I'll check the guys out.

Another legend...

LOL! "Look at that little fat chap. We’ll murder this lot“... An unidentified, overconfident English player upon seeing Puskás before their England v Hungary (1953) encounter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe2iygO241E

ZiziMinuscule2 wrote:My first football "crush" was the italian GK Gianluca Pagliuca. In 1994, I was 7 years old and the World Cup in the USA was my first major football tournament. I loved the sound of his name pronounced my Polish commentators, I loved his look of a 50-60' Hollywood star of Italian descent and I loved (and still love) defensive football.

Later will probably write about my other football crushes.

Today I don't care anymore for club football. Never had "my" club. For some time I was "fan" of AC Ajaccio because French singer Alizée comes from Ajaccio (just like Napoleon). I wanked to her pics and videos for many hours and that's because of her I started to learn French.

I prefer national teams football, but don't watch matches anymore. Too boring and, to be honest, I dont really care for results. But reading about football it's always a rather simple and effective manner to escape from some shitty toughts.

Ha! I missed this one because I just saw the second post. Another cool post. Zizi you could be a football journalst par excellence, like Gianni Brera:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Brera

Hello, Netzer. Thank You for Your kind words. I will be back in this thread for some more "breresque" input.

ZiziMinuscule2 wrote:Hello, Netzer. Thank You for Your kind words. I will be back in this thread for some more "breresque" input.

How on EARTH did we forget HIM?!?!?!?!

He mistreated prostitues. I dont respect him. I'm sorry.

Favorite is subjective but when I was younger I was a junkie for football history and did a lot of reading and research. A lot of the older guys don't have tons of footage available so you only see their best stuff at times. From my thinking here are the greatest footballers of all time.

Pele
Maradona
Christiano Ronaldo
Alfredo Di Stefano
Ferenc Puskas
Lionel Messi

Then after this you get a group of guys in any order such as Cruyff, Garincha, George Best, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Platini, and so on. This list can be as big as you want. There are a lot of players at this level just a nudge below the best of all time.

There are a lot of nations producing world class players and a lot of history to cover. It is all subjective. I think my top 6 is pretty solid as I did a lot more research than most people during my history phase, but a lot of people don't now much about Di Stefano or Puskas and over look them.

Vancouver wrote:Favorite is subjective but when I was younger I was a junkie for football history and did a lot of reading and research. A lot of the older guys don't have tons of footage available so you only see their best stuff at times. From my thinking here are the greatest footballers of all time.

Pele
Maradona
Christiano Ronaldo
Alfredo Di Stefano
Ferenc Puskas
Lionel Messi

Then after this you get a group of guys in any order such as Cruyff, Garincha, George Best, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Platini, and so on. This list can be as big as you want. There are a lot of players at this level just a nudge below the best of all time.

There are a lot of nations producing world class players and a lot of history to cover. It is all subjective. I think my top 6 is pretty solid as I did a lot more research than most people during my history phase, but a lot of people don't now much about Di Stefano or Puskas and over look them.

That Puskas managed to lose a year to football following '56 revolution & came back to be goal machine at Madrid says so much for him. Ironically however, there was a guy called Kubala who got ou of Hungary much earlier, who would had to have been in great Hungary side... possibly in the same inside-left position.

My favourite footballer of all time is actually Thierry Henry...he lit up the Premier league during the prime of his career for Arsenal. He was also instrumental to France's successes, and he was not too bad at Barcelona either!

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:My favourite footballer of all time is actually Thierry Henry...he lit up the Premier league during the prime of his career for Arsenal. He was also instrumental to France's successes, and he was not too bad at Barcelona either!

Its great to have idiosyncratic choices... yes he was great. That damned Pirlo could spread ball about too... so coool...

1.) Diego Maradona
2.) Johan Cruyff
3.) Franz Beckenbauer
4.) Michel Platini
5.) Paolo Rossi

Zipfelklatscher wrote:1.) Diego Maradona
2.) Johan Cruyff
3.) Franz Beckenbauer
4.) Michel Platini
5.) Paolo Rossi

Paolo... not the best footballer, but his feats in '82 were amazing considering he was totally out of shape following his ban...
speaking of Italia '82, what about the legend that was Claudio Gentile? How did he keep a straight face?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvK2z6eUbAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-5BYwnhhU

Messi wouldn't last 5 minutes... thats why I don't really rate him up there. "A defender has to be strong. That's something very different to being dirty and going in to do harm. A defender is a defender, not a dancer", Gentile concluded.

Handsome bastard too.

Another one of my favourite players - Sergio Pellissier.

Spent nearly whole career in Chievo Verona. A versatile and old school style forward. When he had started his career, I was in elementary school. When he stopped to play in 2019, I've already experienced almost everything I have to experience in my life.

Not very technique, not very fast, but very intelligent in the box and very hard working team-mate. He managed to score a goal in his only cap with the Italy national team.

When checking the Serie A results and if Chievo scored at least one goal, one could be basically sure he was the scorer.

His retirement was on of the moments that encouraged me to stop to follow club football.

When Chievo was dissolved, he created a new club that is trying to climb higher from the lowest divisions and to perpetuate the Chievo's legacy.

netzerkaiser wrote:
Ha! I missed this one because I just saw the second post. Another cool post. Zizi you could be a football journalst par excellence, like Gianni Brera:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Brera

Hi Netzerkaiser,

let's have a bit of fun.....if you knew what is a ZIZI, you would understand that a zizi can not be a journalist or maybe on analvids, OK I know the exit door

poldijk wrote:

netzerkaiser wrote:
Ha! I missed this one because I just saw the second post. Another cool post. Zizi you could be a football journalst par excellence, like Gianni Brera:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianni_Brera

Hi Netzerkaiser,

let's have a bit of fun.....if you knew what is a ZIZI, you would understand that a zizi can not be a journalist or maybe on analvids, OK I know the exit door

God no, not at all. Just need time to digest. Thanks Bro.

Bye, people.

ZiziMinuscule3 wrote:Bye, people.

Bonjour petit penis,
restes avec nous, je voudrais te poser une seule question...as tu lu une seule personne qui se moque de toi?
de ton surpoids ou de la taille de ton zizi?
stay with us, i would like to ask you only one question...have you read a single person who laughs at you?
your overweight or the size of your zizi?

in the following threads?
How people start dating/become a couple ? (verbal factor)
How often you masturbated
Life is a fuck-up

I’m surprised myself my the respect people have for you, especially Netzerkaiser, who takes the time to discuss with you, and especially in this world focusing on BBC and DP/DAP. Don't leave the forum.

and I saw you have a beautiful brain:

about Maradona/ He mistreated prostitues. I dont respect him
Powodzenia / Good luck
Pravda vítězí / Truth Wins
Já zůstanu věrný / I will remain faithful

i wish to talk about several things with you starting by this one: wank frequency
hardanalfan wrote: That's not health at all. Why you wank so much bro?

yep, it is not physically and mentally healthy but...what else? i belong to those people who control their wank for 2 reasons:

the wank
the less you do it, the better will be the orgasm and cum feeling. If I wank too much, it will be a try hard, and I don't like. I prefer to wank sometimes (every 2/3 days to let my body loading again) to have an outstanding cum and feel it deep inside my body.

the less you wank, the most powerful will be your orgasm, it is a personal feeling.


the way you wank
I find wanking violent and painful for the penis, therefore, I decided to buy silicon vagina until this one :
https://www.motsutoys.com/kyo-7-sins.html

there is 2 reasons for that : you don't torture your penis anymore and, if you use a heat tube, it is fucking good !!!!
of course, I don't want you to use it 3 times a day, keep in mind, the less you do it, the better orgasm you get. A hip, 7kg, real size (slim 18y old girl) deserves the best: let your body load again and make vagina love or rough anal sex every 2/3 days, believe me

tu n'es pas le seul à être en surpoids ou à avoir un petit pénis, crois moi. Cela n’empêche pas d'avoir une vie sexuelle ou sentimentale épanouie. Ou les deux

you're not the only one who is overweight or has a small penis, believe me. This does not prevent you from having a fulfilled sexual or sentimental life. or both

give us some time to talk, at least, about 2 topics: dating and escort.

netzerkaiser wrote:

Vancouver wrote:Favorite is subjective but when I was younger I was a junkie for football history and did a lot of reading and research. A lot of the older guys don't have tons of footage available so you only see their best stuff at times. From my thinking here are the greatest footballers of all time.

Pele
Maradona
Christiano Ronaldo
Alfredo Di Stefano
Ferenc Puskas
Lionel Messi

Then after this you get a group of guys in any order such as Cruyff, Garincha, George Best, Brazilian Ronaldo, Zidane, Platini, and so on. This list can be as big as you want. There are a lot of players at this level just a nudge below the best of all time.

There are a lot of nations producing world class players and a lot of history to cover. It is all subjective. I think my top 6 is pretty solid as I did a lot more research than most people during my history phase, but a lot of people don't now much about Di Stefano or Puskas and over look them.

That Puskas managed to lose a year to football following '56 revolution & came back to be goal machine at Madrid says so much for him. Ironically however, there was a guy called Kubala who got ou of Hungary much earlier, who would had to have been in great Hungary side... possibly in the same inside-left position.

Kubala seems to have been incredible. He had a great career with Barca. Yes, he didn;t play for that magnificent Hungarian team of the 1950s he went off and played for Spain. He is worth researching, just a fantastic talent.

With all my research that 1950s Hungarian team was the greatest team of all time; some may argue the 1970 Brazilian world cup team. But those HUngarians were thrashing everyone for years. THey lost one game, the WC final. Weird that was the one they lost, but other wise nobody could come close to touching them.

The wikipedia page for that Hungarian squad is pretty well done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Team

Worth a read for anyone interested in how great they were

Vancouver wrote:The wikipedia page for that Hungarian squad is pretty well done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Team

Worth a read for anyone interested in how great they were

The problem with Brazil '70 is this... & they were a fuck!ng amazing team... if they had plyed on a freezing December night in Sheffield or Sunderland, they'd have been ordinary. The altitude & heat helped them greatly.

Two other great teams were Holland in '74 & Germany '72-'74. I named myself after Netzer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDO3SOVH2go

though Beckenbauer gave me the Kaiser bit. They'd other great players, Vogts, Bonhoff, Muller, Breitner...

Holland '74 were as enigmatic as Hungary '54...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Df0FpXBdaw

A great team riding their luck, adopting crazy formations due to injuries...

Thanks for researching Kubala. Respect.

Sócrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B3crates

netzerkaiser wrote:Messi wouldn't last 5 minutes... thats why I don't really rate him up there.

This I don't agree with, there were smaller, slighter, less physical players than Messi who still thrived in the earlier eras, on pure skill for the most part. In any case, Messi is physically strong and he isn't even that small - 1.69 m (5 ft 7 in), that was about average for wingers in the old days and there were plenty who were smaller.

Iddaoeeok wrote:Sócrates Brasileiro Sampaio de Souza Vieira de Oliveira.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B3crates

Doc Soc! Amazing player. I was a bit young to appreciate the 1982 World Cup but when I went back and re watched it years later he and Zico were masterful together.

I had a wonderful chuckle when he played a non league match in England for Garforth Town when their owner at the time, Simon Clifford, had some grandiose idea he was going to re create Brazillian football in England and move his small club into the Football League.

Iddaoeeok wrote:

netzerkaiser wrote:Messi wouldn't last 5 minutes... thats why I don't really rate him up there.

This I don't agree with, there were smaller, slighter, less physical players than Messi who still thrived in the earlier eras, on pure skill for the most part. In any case, Messi is physically strong and he isn't even that small - 1.69 m (5 ft 7 in), that was about average for wingers in the old days and there were plenty who were smaller.

Thanks for contribution.

What I meant was, he'd be having to deal with tackles & assaults that no player has to endure today. So there'd be plenty of ways to stop him, since acceleration is hardly his strongpoint. The constant kicks & fouls would lead to injuries too.

netzerkaiser wrote:Thanks for contribution.

What I meant was, he'd be having to deal with tackles & assaults that no player has to endure today. So there'd be plenty of ways to stop him, since acceleration is hardly his strongpoint. The constant kicks & fouls would lead to injuries too.

That was my point, there were players who were even smaller and less physically robust than Messi back in the day who still had very successful careers. It seemed like every team had a winger, or two, who were all like three foot tall and weighed no more than a bag of sugar, who relied on skill and trickery to evade lumbering defenders. Messi would have thrived in any era of football, the guy is just too good not to have.

Iddaoeeok wrote:

netzerkaiser wrote:Thanks for contribution.

What I meant was, he'd be having to deal with tackles & assaults that no player has to endure today. So there'd be plenty of ways to stop him, since acceleration is hardly his strongpoint. The constant kicks & fouls would lead to injuries too.

That was my point, there were players who were even smaller and less physically robust than Messi back in the day who still had very successful careers. It seemed like every team had a winger, or two, who were all like three foot tall and weighed no more than a bag of sugar, who relied on skill and trickery to evade lumbering defenders. Messi would have thrived in any era of football, the guy is just too good not to have.

I've never met anyone who agreed with me on this one. It must be some little prejudice I have against him that I can't put my finger on. I've tried overcome it by watching youtube collections of his skills, but I just get bored, like I'm watching a video game. On the other hand, I remember first time I saw that Mbappe lad, against Argentina, & I went 'wow!'

Good call with languid Socrates. He was quite a wit too. I remember him saying how tired he was of Pele & Maradona arguing over who was the greatest. He said, lets bring Galileo, Einstein, Beethoven into this! Actually, the same video had Maradona reflect & say, "maybe he (Pele) was better than me... but my mum thinks I was better"... which I tnink showed he never took the argument as seriously as Pele.

Yes, Pele always seemed a bit hung up on being acknowledged as The World's Greatest Footballer.

I'd like share 2 very unusual football stories, both from Italy, both bizarre yet tragic too.

Gigi Moroni was a lovely bohemian lifestyle type winger with Torino who at age of only 24 was sadly knocked down & killed, I think in '67, while out celebrating a win. The 19 year old driver of the car bizarrely later became Torino's president.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/09/0 ... ath-at-24/

In 1977, 2 members of Lazi, as a prank pretended to rob a friends jewellers, & when they raised their 'guns' the prank misfired & their blond Italian international midfielder Luca Re Cecconi was tragically shot dead.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/05/2 ... etto-race/

I still would have liked to have seen how as the great Brian Glanville decribed, Messi cope with the "tender mercies" of the incedibly inaptly named Claudio Gentile!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvK2z6eUbAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a-5BYwnhhU

I mentioned Henry earlier, I have to say watching Zizou, or Zinedine Zidane in his prime was also pretty special.

Zidane could well be my favourite footballer of the last 30 years. Never liked Henry much.

Perhaps, it shows my more defensive mentality - but my favourite footballer is Roy Keane. Not the most technically gifted, but you wanted him as your captain and leader on the pitch in his prime.

He was a great defensive central midfielder. Aggressive, hard working and tough tackling. Great mental attributes and a winning mentality.

xxxEVOxxx wrote:Perhaps, it shows my more defensive mentality - but my favourite footballer is Roy Keane. Not the most technically gifted, but you wanted him as your captain and leader on the pitch in his prime.

He was a great defensive central midfielder. Aggressive, hard working and tough tackling. Great mental attributes and a winning mentality.

I don't follow any team. Vierra was IMO a better player.

Souness would have killed Roy.

I think Roy was a bully. Up against genuine hard men, he'd not do it.

In my opinion.

What is this? David Beckham hold me back?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKQVtOTlny4

I like Roy, he's funny & he'd kill me, I'm 5"7", 10.5 stone...

but up against big boys like Stefan Effenberg, I doubt he'd break wind...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHrweQMssh8

So much respect for guy post interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YFEwTa_DjU

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:I mentioned Henry earlier, I have to say watching Zizou, or Zinedine Zidane in his prime was also pretty special.

I have mentioned Thierry Henry, I have mentioned Zizou.
I am now going to make another name, which some forum posters may be shocked at....Dennis Bergkamp.
I thought he was the best strike partner Henry had at Arsenal.

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:I mentioned Henry earlier, I have to say watching Zizou, or Zinedine Zidane in his prime was also pretty special.

I have mentioned Thierry Henry, I have mentioned Zizou.
I am now going to make another name, which some forum posters may be shocked at....Dennis Bergkamp.
I thought he was the best strike partner Henry had at Arsenal.

Bergkamp was an artist, a class act.

netzerkaiser wrote:

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:

xxxVIPERxxx wrote:I mentioned Henry earlier, I have to say watching Zizou, or Zinedine Zidane in his prime was also pretty special.

I have mentioned Thierry Henry, I have mentioned Zizou.
I am now going to make another name, which some forum posters may be shocked at....Dennis Bergkamp.
I thought he was the best strike partner Henry had at Arsenal.

Bergkamp was an artist, a class act.

i completely agree, but not everyone thinks that way or agrees!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTBMmd7mqc4

Denis... what can I say?